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[Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

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kd1na

[Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

I see many references using the CW sidetone as a calibration tool for the K3's frequency readout. I fully understand the logic behind using the sidetone but this brings up a question.

What is the reference for the sidetone frequency within the K3? Is in the K3's master oscillator? If you are in fact changing the master oscillator frequency to match K3's readout to an actual frequency, and if the sidetone frequency is derived from the same master oscillator aren't you defeating the purpose of your calibration. It seems logical to me to a method of calibration that your reference is not derived from the same oscillator you are trying to calibrate.

Having said the above here is the method I use.

On usb mode I tune the K3 to the reference standard you are using ( Any AM station such as WWV or any station of a known frequency). I set the readout to the exact known frequency of that station. I note the pitch of the sound I hear from the station (the tone from WWV or CHU works best) . Next I switch to LSB and note the pitch of the sound. If they are identical then the K3 is calibrated. If the pitch changes then you have to configure the master oscillator's frequency so the pitch between USB and LSB match. I relies the above method requires a good ability to note slight changes in pitch. Some of us do not posses that ability and must use a different method. For those that do, this method works.

73
Dave KD1NA
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Vernon Mauery

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:08 PM, David Robertson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I see many references using the CW sidetone as a calibration tool for the K3's frequency readout. I fully understand the logic behind using the sidetone but this brings up a question.
>
> What is the reference for the sidetone frequency within the K3? Is in the K3's master oscillator? If you are in fact changing the master oscillator frequency to match K3's readout to an actual frequency, and if the sidetone frequency is derived from the same master oscillator aren't you defeating the purpose of your calibration. It seems logical to me to a method of calibration that your reference is not derived from the same oscillator you are trying to calibrate.

I am not sure what is used to generate the sidetone, but even if it is
the K3 master oscillator, you are probably safe to do it this way.
This is because the master oscillator runs at 48.39 MHz, while your
sidetone is at 400-900Hz. We are talking a 4-5 orders of magnitude
difference here. That means that if you change the frequency by 100Hz
(mine is off by 80 or so), you would only change the sidetone
frequency by 80*10e-4 Hz, which is imperceptible.

But that doesn't take into account the fact that the sidetone is all
local. Your receiver generates the sidetone (of your choosing), which
is N-Hz away from actual chosen pitch, where N is the frequency
difference between the carrier of the signal and your tuned frequency.
Hitting the SPOT button mixes in the chosen sidetone, which then
creates nulls and peaks that are easy to discern even for the tonal
impaired. But since BOTH tones are generated by your K3, it makes
sense that they would change at the same rate, thus negating any
changes from the master oscillator.

> Having said the above here is the method I use.
>
> On usb mode I tune the K3 to the reference standard you are using ( Any AM station such as WWV or any station of a known frequency). I set the readout to the exact known frequency of that station. I note the pitch of the sound I hear from the station (the tone from WWV or CHU works best) . Next I switch to LSB and note the pitch of the sound. If they are identical then the K3 is calibrated. If the pitch changes then you have to configure the master oscillator's frequency so the pitch between USB and LSB match. I relies the above method requires a good ability to note slight changes in pitch. Some of us do not posses that ability and must use a different method. For those that do, this method works.

This is a method I have not heard of, so thank you for sharing it.

--Vernon N7OH

> 73
> Dave KD1NA
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k5oai

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

In reply to this post by kd1na

Does the frequency off set setting
entered into the K3 Crystal Configuration in the K3 Utility
for your ssb filter (mine is a 5 pole 2.7khz)
also have an effect on this method?

GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 4/5/2011 4:08 PM, David Robertson wrote:

> Having said the above here is the method I use.
>
> On usb mode I tune the K3 to the reference standard you are using ( Any AM
> station such as WWV or any station of a known frequency). I set the readout
> to the exact known frequency of that station. I note the pitch of the sound I
> hear from the station (the tone from WWV or CHU works best) . Next I switch
> to LSB and note the pitch of the sound. If they are identical then the K3 is
> calibrated. If the pitch changes then you have to configure the master
> oscillator's frequency so the pitch between USB and LSB match. I relies the
> above method requires a good ability to note slight changes in pitch. Some of
> us do not posses that ability and must use a different method. For those that
> do, this method works.
>

Roger D Johnson

S meter command

I recently asked Greg, W8WWV, if he would update his S meter Lite program
to include the K3. He was amenable provided the K3 S meter read command
returned 8 bits of data for sufficient resolution. It appears, from reading the
programmer's reference manual, that the K3 command only returns 4 bits. Is
there a chance of changing the programming to return 8 bits in a future update?

73, Roger

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wayne burdick

Re: S meter command

Administrator

We could return an 8-bit number. I'll add this to the list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Apr 5, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote:

> I recently asked Greg, W8WWV, if he would update his S meter Lite
> program
> to include the K3. He was amenable provided the K3 S meter read
> command
> returned 8 bits of data for sufficient resolution. It appears, from
> reading the
> programmer's reference manual, that the K3 command only returns 4
> bits. Is
> there a chance of changing the programming to return 8 bits in a
> future update?
>
> 73, Roger
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Jack Smith-6

Re: S meter command

Wayne:

As an extension to this feature, a quasi-simultaneous S-meter read of
main and sub receivers would be very useful in evaluating antenna gain
and diversity reception.

Ideally the main and sub signal strength readings would be captured at
the same time, but if some short delay is necessary, the concept is
still useful. (Sending sequential read commands to the main and sub adds
an unknown delay between the two measurements.)

The main thing here is close to simultaneous capture; data transmission
of the two values can be subject to whatever delay is inherent in the
K3's firmware.

Jack K8ZOA

On 4/5/2011 11:35 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> We could return an 8-bit number. I'll add this to the list.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Apr 5, 2011, at 3:08 PM, Roger D Johnson wrote:
>
>> I recently asked Greg, W8WWV, if he would update his S meter Lite
>> program
>> to include the K3. He was amenable provided the K3 S meter read
>> command
>> returned 8 bits of data for sufficient resolution. It appears, from
>> reading the
>> programmer's reference manual, that the K3 command only returns 4
>> bits. Is
>> there a chance of changing the programming to return 8 bits in a
>> future update?
>>
>> 73, Roger
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

In reply to this post by kd1na

If you don't have perfect pitch, you can use a technique I recently
described on the Reverse Beacon Network blog, substituting Spectran for
a good ear, which I don't have. See
<http://reversebeacon.blogspot.com/2010/12/frequency-calibration-and-rbn.html>
for the full story.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

On 4/5/2011 5:08 PM, David Robertson wrote:
> On usb mode I tune the K3 to the reference standard you are using ( Any AM station such as WWV or any station of a known frequency). I set the readout to the exact known frequency of that station. I note the pitch of the sound I hear from the station (the tone from WWV or CHU works best) . Next I switch to LSB and note the pitch of the sound. If they are identical then the K3 is calibrated. If the pitch changes then you have to configure the master oscillator's frequency so the pitch between USB and LSB match. I relies the above method requires a good ability to note slight changes in pitch. Some of us do not posses that ability and must use a different method. For those that do, this method works.
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Dave-3

Re: S meter command

In reply to this post by Roger D Johnson

That would be good. Even though I have a P3, I am having to keep my sdriq
connected to the k3 for its "continuum mode" where it produces a file of
"power measured in the bandwidth v time" which I use for beacon monitoring

Dave

ww2r

Message: 42
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:35:26 -0700
From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] S meter command
To: Roger D Johnson <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

We could return an 8-bit number. I'll add this to the list.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Roger D Johnson

S meter command

Using the K3 utility I typed in the S meter command, SM$, but
the program doesn't return a reading. It just echos the command.
Obviously, I'm doing something wrong!

73, Roger

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n7ws

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

In reply to this post by Pete Smith N4ZR

Or you can try this that I wrote exactly two years ago.

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Ref-Osc-Cal-Method-4-tc2595451.html

Wes N7WS

--- On Wed, 4/6/11, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Pete Smith <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 4:47 AM
> If you don't have perfect pitch, you
> can use a technique I recently
> described on the Reverse Beacon Network blog, substituting
> Spectran for
> a good ear, which I don't have. See
> <http://reversebeacon.blogspot.com/2010/12/frequency-calibration-and-rbn.html>
>
> for the full story.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
> www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
>
> On 4/5/2011 5:08 PM, David Robertson wrote:
> > On usb mode I tune the K3 to the reference standard
> you are using ( Any AM station such as WWV or any station of
> a known frequency). I set the readout to the exact known
> frequency of that station. I note the pitch of the sound I
> hear from the station (the tone from WWV or CHU works best)
> . Next I switch to LSB and note the pitch of the sound. If
> they are identical then the K3 is calibrated. If the pitch
> changes then you have to configure the master oscillator's
> frequency so the pitch between USB and LSB match. I
> relies the above method requires a good ability to note
> slight changes in pitch. Some of us do not posses that
> ability and must use a different method. For those that do,
> this method works.
> ______________________________________________________________
>

Scott Ellington-2

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

My procedure is only a slight modification of Method 2 in the manual. The AGC will keep the audio level nearly constant under all but the worst conditions.

1. Select fine VFO resolution (1 Hz).

2. Select CW mode, fast AGC, and set bandwidth to 500 Hz. (You don't have to have a CW xtal filter.)

3. If using WWV, do the calibration only when the carrier is unmodulated. If you try it when there are audio tones, you may end up tuning to one of the sidebands.

4. Using CWT, tune to the calibration signal. This will get you very close to zero beat.

5. Locate CONFIG:REF CAL.

6. Tap SPOT to enable the sidetone, and adjust its level to be about the same as that of the signal. You should hear the "beat", a fluctuation in volume. If necessary, adjust the sidetone level for the strongest beat. (If you can't hear it when adjusting the sidetone level, shift the VFO a few Hz.) Tune the VFO for the slowest possible fluctuation, probably less than 1 per second. If you have trouble hearing the fluctuations, try feeding the audio to an analog voltmeter or oscilloscope.

7. Note the VFO display frequency. If it isn't within about 100 Hz of the calibration signal, adjust the REF CAL frequency in small increments, always retuning the VFO for zero beat as above, until the VFO display reads with 100 Hz of the calibration frequency. Once you get within about 100 Hz, set the VFO for exactly the calibration frequency, and adjust REF CAL for zero beat as above. (You may be close enough initially.)

8. Using the K3 utility, save the configuration. (Or record the REF CAL value.)

9. Cancel SPOT and exit the menu.

73,

Scott K9MA

On Apr 6, 2011, at 9:33 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Or you can try this that I wrote exactly two years ago.
>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Ref-Osc-Cal-Method-4-tc2595451.html
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> --- On Wed, 4/6/11, Pete Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Pete Smith <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2011, 4:47 AM
>> If you don't have perfect pitch, you
>> can use a technique I recently
>> described on the Reverse Beacon Network blog, substituting
>> Spectran for
>> a good ear, which I don't have. See
>> <http://reversebeacon.blogspot.com/2010/12/frequency-calibration-and-rbn.html>
>>
>> for the full story.
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
>> www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/5/2011 5:08 PM, David Robertson wrote:
>>> On usb mode I tune the K3 to the reference standard
>> you are using ( Any AM station such as WWV or any station of
>> a known frequency). I set the readout to the exact known
>> frequency of that station. I note the pitch of the sound I
>> hear from the station (the tone from WWV or CHU works best)
>> . Next I switch to LSB and note the pitch of the sound. If
>> they are identical then the K3 is calibrated. If the pitch
>> changes then you have to configure the master oscillator's
>> frequency so the pitch between USB and LSB match. I
>> relies the above method requires a good ability to note
>> slight changes in pitch. Some of us do not posses that
>> ability and must use a different method. For those that do,
>> this method works.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Scott Ellington
Space Science and Engineering Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison

[hidden email]

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Scott Ellington

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

In reply to this post by n7ws

Scott Ellington

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

In reply to this post by kd1na

All frequencies in the K3, including the sidetone, are derived from the master oscillator. The way this is done guarantees that when the received signal audio frequency matches the sidetone, the receiver is tuned to exactly the frequency of the received signal. This is just a matter of arithmetic, performed precisely by the DSP and phase-lock loops. As far as I know, every receiver with a tracking sidetone uses this method, and can be calibrated the same way. Some receivers, however, like the IC-765, use a separate audio oscillator for the sidetone, in which case some other method must be used.

73,

Scott K9MA

On Apr 5, 2011, at 4:08 PM, David Robertson wrote:

> What is the reference for the sidetone frequency within the K3? Is in the K3's master oscillator? If you are in fact changing the master oscillator frequency to match K3's readout to an actual frequency, and if the sidetone frequency is derived from the same master oscillator aren't you defeating the purpose of your calibration. It seems logical to me to a method of calibration that your reference is not derived from the same oscillator you are trying to calibrate.

Scott Ellington
Madison, Wisconsin
USA

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Mike Reublin

Re: S meter command

In reply to this post by Roger D Johnson

Roger,

Are you typing SM$ and hitting enter?

Type SM$; (that's a S M dollar sign semicolon) and don't hit enter. The dollar sign
is for the sub RX.

73, Mike NF4L

On 4/6/2011 9:37 AM, Roger D Johnson wrote:

> Using the K3 utility I typed in the S meter command, SM$, but
> the program doesn't return a reading. It just echos the command.
> Obviously, I'm doing something wrong!
>
> 73, Roger
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

AC7AC

Re: [Elecraft K3] Frequency Calibration using Sidetone

In reply to this post by Scott Ellington-2

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