Elecraft KX4

[John Harper]

I sometimes doubt that Chris M0NKA ever meant for it to be a commercially
viable rig but, despite what you correctly mentioned, it has become one. I
think his original intent was to provide a project to experiment with
coding etc - the platform for that experiment just happened to be a radio.

The firmware is open source, thus all the clones. Chris recently complained
that he is now expected and often asked to provide support for the Chinese
clones! That's gotta burn...

A group in Germany is now providing the lion's share of updates.

But, what all this proves, is what's possible in the form factor in terms
of with.without PC and ease of connectivity from keeping audio in a digital
format for PC exchange.

If Elecraft made a similarly featured KX4 it would sell like hotcakes and
would be hitting the sweet spot of how so many people operate today:
portable, FT8, CW/phone, with and w/o a PC. What an attractive set of
features for new younger hams and those without the ability to have a
"proper" antenna.

I am hesitant to experiment too much with my mcHF because support and
documentation is so lacking. I can't easily recover from an error by
reading - I'd have to ask in a forum and hope someone both knows the answer
and isn't too burnt out by being asked other questions, that he'll answer
me.

If a company with Elecraft's reputation produced such a rig I'd probably be
moved to write a tributary haiku, or maybe even a limerick.

John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
___________________________

I’m with you 100%, John! Hope Elecraft is listening!

Love the mcHF, but there is really NO customer support. If the current
group of developers aren’t interested in fixing a bug or adding
something new, you’re told to do it yourself. Not something I’m
interested in doing, or really able to do. But as is, its still a fun
and innovative transceiver!

Elecraft could do it right!
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[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Oh my.   It seems that folks keep designing good stuff, circuits,
software,radios and the like, and for economic reasons end up with
Chinese manufacturing some of the boards or assemblies.    It doesn't
take them long to figure out what makes it tick and end up with a clone
available at 1/2 the price or so.   And they don't care about copy-write
laws or patients either.   "ok, so sue me".

I'm not naming names, but just look around and find the "Made in China"
or the likes.

No way would I write any computer code and make it open source. Thus I
say if you want something different, then learn to write code.  Oh, it
only takes thousands of hours and many years experience.    And someone
wants it for FREE!!!!!!

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 7/1/2019 10:54 AM, John Harper wrote:

> I sometimes doubt that Chris M0NKA ever meant for it to be a commercially
> viable rig but, despite what you correctly mentioned, it has become one. I
> think his original intent was to provide a project to experiment with
> coding etc - the platform for that experiment just happened to be a radio.
>
> The firmware is open source, thus all the clones. Chris recently complained
> that he is now expected and often asked to provide support for the Chinese
> clones! That's gotta burn...
>
> A group in Germany is now providing the lion's share of updates.
>
> But, what all this proves, is what's possible in the form factor in terms
> of with.without PC and ease of connectivity from keeping audio in a digital
> format for PC exchange.
>
> If Elecraft made a similarly featured KX4 it would sell like hotcakes and
> would be hitting the sweet spot of how so many people operate today:
> portable, FT8, CW/phone, with and w/o a PC. What an attractive set of
> features for new younger hams and those without the ability to have a
> "proper" antenna.
>
> I am hesitant to experiment too much with my mcHF because support and
> documentation is so lacking. I can't easily recover from an error by
> reading - I'd have to ask in a forum and hope someone both knows the answer
> and isn't too burnt out by being asked other questions, that he'll answer
> me.
>
> If a company with Elecraft's reputation produced such a rig I'd probably be
> moved to write a tributary haiku, or maybe even a limerick.
>
> John AE5X
> https://ae5x.blogspot.com
> ___________________________
>
> I’m with you 100%, John! Hope Elecraft is listening!
>
> Love the mcHF, but there is really NO customer support. If the current
> group of developers aren’t interested in fixing a bug or adding
> something new, you’re told to do it yourself. Not something I’m
> interested in doing, or really able to do. But as is, its still a fun
> and innovative transceiver!
>
> Elecraft could do it right!
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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[Alan Bloom]

Not publishing the source code is no guarantee that someone won't rip
off the software.  Remember "NET/ROM"?

https://www.tapr.org/pr_intro.html#NR

It was a pre-programmed memory chip that you plug into a packet TNC to
give it super-digipeater capability.  The software was copyrighted, but
that didn't prevent some hams (in Germany as I recall) from running a
reverse compiler on the code, making a few minor changes, and
re-compiling it so they could make pirate chips.

It's not like the copyright owner was making a killing on the product. 
I don't remember the price, but as I recall it was reasonable.  But too
expensive for some people who can't resist a "bargain".

Alan N1AL



On 7/1/19 10:33 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Oh my.   It seems that folks keep designing good stuff, circuits,
> software,radios and the like, and for economic reasons end up with
> Chinese manufacturing some of the boards or assemblies.    It doesn't
> take them long to figure out what makes it tick and end up with a
> clone available at 1/2 the price or so.   And they don't care about
> copy-write laws or patients either.   "ok, so sue me".
>
> I'm not naming names, but just look around and find the "Made in
> China" or the likes.
>
> No way would I write any computer code and make it open source. Thus I
> say if you want something different, then learn to write code.  Oh, it
> only takes thousands of hours and many years experience.    And
> someone wants it for FREE!!!!!!
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 7/1/2019 10:54 AM, John Harper wrote:

...
>> The firmware is open source, thus all the clones. Chris recently
>> complained
>> that he is now expected and often asked to provide support for the
>> Chinese
>> clones! That's gotta burn...
...
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[Edward R Cole]

Ah guess this is "letting you know I read the mail":

Mobile is a reach from KX4 as the topic - but - here's my drift:

I outfitted my new (in 2016) truck to be equipped for
HF/6m/2m/70cm.  Mostly when parked in eve. with our 5th wheel trailer
(even provided for two coax lines to the trailer for operating the
KX3 on the dining table).  I can run the 6m-70cm while underway
(mobile) but most of the time the radios are off when driving. 80m
and 20m hamsticks did not tune well mounted in the bed so going to
not bother running HF-mobile.  Buddipole looks like a convenient HF
portable antenna.

Towing a 30-foot trailer is a full-time job and needs no distraction
(total rig length is 47 foot).  I will eventually get APRS tracking
beacon working.(which runs automatic).

73, Ed - KL7UW
   http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
   [hidden email]

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[Todd KH2TJ]

The ALT-512 looks interesting in that regard:
https://www.aerial-51.com/alt-512/

73, Todd KH2TJ


________________________________
From:  John Harper <[hidden email]>

But, what all this proves, is what's possible in the form factor in terms
of with.without PC and ease of connectivity from keeping audio in a digital
format for PC exchange.

If Elecraft made a similarly featured KX4 it would sell like hotcakes and
would be hitting the sweet spot of how so many people operate today:
portable, FT8, CW/phone, with and w/o a PC. What an attractive set of
features for new younger hams and those without the ability to have a
"proper" antenna.


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[David Woolley (E.L)]

In my experience, radio amateurs behave like the general public with
respect to intellectual property; they generally only respect property
rights in physical objects.  They'll copy magazine articles without
paying royalties to publisher, play videos at clubs in spite of the home
use only warnings, etc.

Much experimentation with equipment is probably legally dodgy, although
I think there are patent exemptions for experimentation, but possibly
not for subsequent use beyond validating the design,

In terms of only supporting official versions, there are techniques,
such as digital signatures, to identify official firmware, even if
people violate trademarks.  Android is open source, but is still trusted
for some secure applications.

I suspect ELecraft do actually support modified hardware, which most
people wouldn't.

Incidentally a lot of the original developers of the internet (before
commercialisation) were radio amateurs.  One of the big reasons that we
have TCP/IP now and not something based on X.25, and the OSI model, is
the open source nature of the key implementations.

--
David Woolley

On 01/07/2019 19:10, Alan wrote:
> The software was copyrighted, but that didn't prevent some hams (in
> Germany as I recall) from running a reverse compiler on the code, making
> a few minor changes, and re-compiling it so they could make pirate chips.

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[Alan Bloom]

 > I suspect ELecraft do actually support modified hardware, which most
people wouldn't.

Yes, I believe that is true.  Wayne and Eric are long-time supporters of
homebrewing.

 > Incidentally a lot of the original developers of the internet (before
commercialisation) were radio amateurs.

My favorite example of early free software contributors was Irv Hoff
W6FFC (SK).  He was big in RTTY (radioteletype) in the early days. Among
other things, he designed the "Mainline" series of FSK demodulators and
the AK1 frequency-shift keyer.  He wrote a couple of dozen articles
about RTTY in QST and elsewhere back in the 1960s and early 70s.

Later he got into computers.  Somewhere he acquired a surplus DEC
computer and had fun programming it to run his RTTY station.  When
personal computers came out in the 1970s, Irv jumped right in.  His
contributions to free software included IMP (Irv's Modem Program, later
"Improved" Modem Program), which became the standard for CP/M and other
early home computers.

He also wrote many other utilities that he shared freely.  Just a few I
happen to know about: LHA (file compression and archive program), XIZ
and XZI to translate machine code from Intel 8080 to Zilog Z-80 and
vice-versa, BD (find bad disk sectors and lock them out), CHEK (CRC file
integrity checker), MDM (another modem program), M7LIB (manage telephone
numbers in MDM library), file13 (file search utility), filt (text
filters), find (find ASCII string in a file), form (source code
formatter), formatin (format text files), justify (right margin
justification), kmd (RCMP utility), listt (list text files to printer
with nice formatting), mcatxcat (disk catalog system), neat (source code
reformatter), osmdm (modem program for Osborne 1 computer), oxmdm (modem
program for Osborne Executive computer), FOR (search RCMP list), DIRR
(directory listing program), etc. etc.

Alan N1AL

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[Rick WA6NHC-2]

And don't forget that he modified the Baudot code (he called it upper
and lower sets, not case) so that we could transfer binary (actual
programs) via RTTY, all on the 146.10/70 repeater.

Those were fun days.

Rick nhc


On 7/2/2019 11:34 AM, Alan wrote:

>
> My favorite example of early free software contributors was Irv Hoff
> W6FFC (SK).  He was big in RTTY (radioteletype) in the early days.
> Among other things, he designed the "Mainline" series of FSK
> demodulators and the AK1 frequency-shift keyer.  He wrote a couple of
> dozen articles about RTTY in QST and elsewhere back in the 1960s and
> early 70s.
>
> Later he got into computers.  Somewhere he acquired a surplus DEC
> computer and had fun programming it to run his RTTY station.  When
> personal computers came out in the 1970s, Irv jumped right in. His
> contributions to free software included IMP (Irv's Modem Program,
> later "Improved" Modem Program), which became the standard for CP/M
> and other early home computers.
>
> He also wrote many other utilities that he shared freely.  Just a few
> I happen to know about: LHA (file compression and archive program),
> XIZ and XZI to translate machine code from Intel 8080 to Zilog Z-80
> and vice-versa, BD (find bad disk sectors and lock them out), CHEK
> (CRC file integrity checker), MDM (another modem program), M7LIB
> (manage telephone numbers in MDM library), file13 (file search
> utility), filt (text filters), find (find ASCII string in a file),
> form (source code formatter), formatin (format text files), justify
> (right margin justification), kmd (RCMP utility), listt (list text
> files to printer with nice formatting), mcatxcat (disk catalog
> system), neat (source code reformatter), osmdm (modem program for
> Osborne 1 computer), oxmdm (modem program for Osborne Executive
> computer), FOR (search RCMP list), DIRR (directory listing program),
> etc. etc.
>
> Alan N1AL [hidden email]

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