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External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

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Gwen Patton

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Ray said: I use my standard computers sound card for Digital Mode, works
Fine.
Save your money! Ray WA6VAB K3

It is perfectly possible to do this. It is electronically possible. And
yes, it works fine. But just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. It is
incredibly easy to accidentally transmit music or other spurious sounds
because some other piece of software also uses the standard sound card.
You're welcome to use your computer and your radio as you see fit, but keep
in mind that you do have a responsibility to follow the FCC regulations,
and if something you do attracts the attention of a VM or the Enforcement
Bureau, you may get a "Certificate of Naughtiness" or some such from the
Powers That Be.

It's much safer for your license status to spend $10 bucks or so on a USB
sound card that you solely use for ham radio digital modes. That keeps any
musical Windows alerts, notifications of subscribed Youtube videos, Ebay
notifications for auctions you are watching, the baby monitor, or any of a
dozen other things that are automatically connected to the Default Sound
Devices, from sending anything that might jeopardize your license. If the
cat walks on your keyboard while you're getting a cup of coffee, and turns
on Spotify, you might come in to see that your cat just Rickrolled the
80-meter FT8 window, and was in the process of telling the world about your
WAP when you discovered it. Things happen. Accidents happen. You can
overlook something. This is just how things are.

But you and I both know that Murphy loves moments like these, and that the
perversity of the Universe tends to the maximum.

Spend $10 to help keep your $2000 radio from sending extraneous sounds from
your $900 PC over the air, because you and I also know that at the precise
moment you think "nothing can possibly go wrong" and go get your coffee,
three VMs will have JUST tuned up their machines to do a little 80m FT8,
and your cat thinks your keyboard feels good under her paws.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 7:18 PM Ray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I use my standard computers sound card for Digital Mode, works Fine.
> Save your money! Ray WA6VAB K3
>
> Windows 10
>
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 2:31 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> Transmitting voice or music to the FT8 interface is a big problem for
> other users. It creates interference across the entire SSB filter
> bandwidth,
> not just in a single FT8 signal bandwidth. If you operate FT8 or any
> other digital mode you hear Microsoft musical notes and voice every day.
>
>
> The most reliable way to avoid interfering with every other FT8 user
> is to use an external sound card.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Bill Frantz" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Rick Bates, NK7I" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:14:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> I know the public service/emcom people have pushed on this
> issue, because a fair number of public service events involve
> providing communication support for parades, and parades have
> bands, and bands are quite loud and overcome even a noise
> canceling microphone. I think there has even been an official
> ruling that these incidental sounds, that come along for the
> ride with legal communication, won't get you a notice from the FCC.
>
> Now transmitting voice in the CW bands is a different story. For
> starts, it's not incidental to legal communication.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 1/1/21 at 1:22 PM, [hidden email] (Rick Bates, NK7I) wrote:
>
> >Defined in the simplest of terms, any sound transmitted other
> >than for the purposes of communication (voice, tones for
> >digital) is illegal.
> >
> >This includes background music in the same room as the
> >microphone (though generally ignored as part of the
> >environment, in the US; same as telephone 'hold' music in an
> >autopatch; traffic noise etc.) and certainly includes the
> >'musical' sounds from most OS (they offer no communication).
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900 |is there are so many to choose| 150
> Rivermead Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum |
> Peterborough, NH 03458
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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wa6vab

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by W2xj

wa6vab

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Gwen Patton

W2xj

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by wa6vab

Impressive, I have a similar resume, but it still doesn’t tell me whether or not you are cheap and messy. That is my criteria for not hiring hams.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 10:41 PM, Linda M <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Right, I left Ft Gordon Georgia (east coast) after Radio School and Instructing in
> Radio School for Vietnam, later to Work as a Broadcast Engineer.
> Jobs with Top Secret clearances required, I cant talk about !
> O ya, 2 Stints for Intel, jobs in Engineering Standards and Quality Control.
> Got along GRANDLY without your jobs………
> 59 Year Ham - WA6VAB K3
>
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:26 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> But you never worked for me and never will.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Ray <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had Lots of work. Fixing the So called Garu’s problems !
> Thanks WA6VAB
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 5:42 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Save your money!
>
>

George Thornton

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Can we all please stop the flaming. It does nothing for this forum and drives good people away.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 7:48 PM
To: Linda M <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Impressive, I have a similar resume, but it still doesn’t tell me whether or not you are cheap and messy. That is my criteria for not hiring hams.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 10:41 PM, Linda M <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Right, I left Ft Gordon Georgia (east coast) after Radio School and
> Instructing in Radio School for Vietnam, later to Work as a Broadcast Engineer.
> Jobs with Top Secret clearances required, I cant talk about !
> O ya, 2 Stints for Intel, jobs in Engineering Standards and Quality Control.
> Got along GRANDLY without your jobs………
> 59 Year Ham - WA6VAB K3
>
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 6:26 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to
> K3
>
> But you never worked for me and never will.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:46 PM, Ray <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I had Lots of work. Fixing the So called Garu’s problems !
> Thanks WA6VAB
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 5:42 PM
> To: Ray
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to
> K3
>
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Save your money!
>
>

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Grant Youngman-2

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Yes, please. Hepefully Eric or Wayne will step in and shut this “I’m the genius and you’re not” garbage down. Honest to g*d. There are just too many folks around here who know better than anyone else, and want to make sure you know it too. And even when they’re right, they’re not very gentlemanly about it …

Grant NQ5T

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:18 PM, George Thornton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Can we all please stop the flaming. It does nothing for this forum and drives good people away.
>
> -----Original Message-----

______________________________________________________________
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W2xj

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

Bottom line is that too many hams are too cheap and too messy. That is why I never hired them and never allowed them to use my towers for repeaters unless it was a professional install of all new equipment.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:43 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes, please. Hepefully Eric or Wayne will step in and shut this “I’m the genius and you’re not” garbage down. Honest to g*d. There are just too many folks around here who know better than anyone else, and want to make sure you know it too. And even when they’re right, they’re not very gentlemanly about it …
>
> Grant NQ5T
>
>> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:18 PM, George Thornton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Can we all please stop the flaming. It does nothing for this forum and drives good people away.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Tom Azlin W7SUA

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

My shack computer with Win10p does not have a mike, speaker or video
camera. OS sounds turned off. Easy to check after an update. I use a USB
cable to my upgraded K3 but would work just fine with line in/out audio
cables to the back of the K3.

I do not want any alerts so works for me. I use a different computer for
playing sounds, using Zoom, etc.

73, tom w7sua

On 1/1/2021 10:48 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

> Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any
> random update) it's a bad idea. Leaving one small check mark in a lower
> level driver setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is
> but one example. There are too many ways to make an error. Using the
> computer sound card on a radio is not 'set and forget'.
>
> We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to
> operate a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go. Setting
> boundaries is part of that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in
> radio).
>
> Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and
> apps that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype
> audio). The small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the
> radio(s) is certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.
>
> 73,
> Rick NK7I
>
> On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
>> Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_.
>> Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world
>> isn't going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding
>> includes setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system.
>> I've used my PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years.
>> Now I have upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT,
>> PTT and PC CW down the one USB cable.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike VP8NO
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Edward R Cole

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Craig Wissman

Lets see, you know enough how to set up audio for running FT8
(wsjt-x) but not enough to disable alert tones??

Actually my solution is easier: I have a separate computer for
running my ham radio programs so never need to hear that computer
"burp". Internet and e-mail done on a separate computer where I can
enable sound if I want (most of the time speaker is cancelled). I
have a FM radio for music. Occasionally, I want to hear audio with a
video and enable speaker for that.

Currently using the soundcard (Realtek) in the computer for digital
modes (but not very satisfactory as gain is not leveled and has a lot
of noise below 200-Hz). Eventually will get my new A/D going (UADC4)
which will drive with baseband audio from my LP-Pan(SDR) running on
the K3 1st IF.

With my old winXP computer I used a emu0202 soundcard or a Delta44
(but neither are supported by win10).

Now run two Dell Inspiron i5 with separate monitors.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by W2xj

I'm long retired but if I wasn't, who are you and why would I want to work for
you anyway? No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question, from what you've
written, I wouldn't.

N7WS

On 1/1/2021 9:50 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Bottom line is that too many hams are too cheap and too messy. That is why I never hired them and never allowed them to use my towers for repeaters unless it was a professional install of all new equipment.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

______________________________________________________________
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Rick Bates, NK7I

Rick,

I think one of the main problems with this is folks (old like me and inexperienced in how the audio side of computers and connecting them to a xcvr) who don’t understand fully the concept of what you are talking about once they set up a dongle or other sound card and it works they don’t change anything and may keep sending computer sounds and noises, etc., without knowing it. I hope someone reading this will direct me and others to a site or two that help us understand what is going on.

I just used a cheap Amazon sound card when hooking up two different FT8 xcvr kits (QRPGuys and CWTD) to my W10 laptop and watched paint dry last winter while in Florida. Noting exciting so when we came back home in the spring never hooked them up again. Still if the bug hits again I would like to understand more.

I read every email on this and other sites re FT8, etc., so again, if someone can direct me to a good site or two to assist my weak understanding I would be interested.

Dave K8WPE since 1960 and crystal sets before that.

David J. Wilcox’s iPad

> On Jan 1, 2021, at 11:51 AM, Rick Bates, NK7I <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Precisely why (since MS can foul up audio settings routinely on any random update) it's a bad idea. Leaving one small check mark in a lower level driver setting (looping/routing audio) that leaves a mic hot is but one example. There are too many ways to make an error. Using the computer sound card on a radio is not 'set and forget'.
>
> We still have a large base of folks that don't get what is required to operate a clean (legal) station; we all learn as we go. Setting boundaries is part of that edcucation (OS stays in OS, radio stays in radio).
>
> Turning off the OS sounds, one would also lose features that the OS and apps that are useful (like JTAlert "DX" announcements, Zoom/Skype audio). The small cost of a sound device (or second sound card) for the radio(s) is certainly worth the gains and lowering of the risks.
>
> 73,
> Rick NK7I
>
>> On 1/1/2021 9:34 AM, Mike Harris via Elecraft wrote:
>> Not really. It all boils down to _*understanding what you are doing*_. Windows sounds can be turned off. The best sound card in the world isn't going to stop anyone from transmitting garbage. Understanding includes setting the audio levels correctly throughout the system. I've used my PC sound system with two simple audio cables for years. Now I have upgraded my K3 with the K3s I/O and simply pipe audio, CAT, PTT and PC CW down the one USB cable.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike VP8NO
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

W2xj

Re: External sound card advice needed to attach to K3

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

I was management at CBS corporate in NYC. I never saw such a questionaire. It appears you were a technician under IBEW contract so I don’t know what they required. I did become a member of BCARS (broadcast center amateur radio society) which was comprised mostly of IBEW technicians. We rebuilt the ham shack on top of the 514 building and put a repeater on the Empire State building (all new factory installed Motorola gear). We did everything to code and to union spec. Bob Ross who was in charge of all engineering at CBS and a very big ham radio supporter (donated prizes at the NAB ham radio gathering) could write checks up to $100,000 without further approval and was a big BCARS supporter. We didn’t do cheap or messy.

I don’t recall your name so where exactly at CBS did you work?

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Raymond Sills <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bob:
>
> Hmmm... sorry to hear of that "anti-ham" hiring bias. Over five decades ago, I was hired by CBS, and one of the questions on the job application was: "Do you have an Amateur Radio license, for how long, and what grade."
>
> It turns out those members of the technical staff who did have a ham ticket were among the most valuable employees. Sure, not every technician had a ham license, but a number had commercial licenses (required for those who would be operating a transmitter, back then). Of those technical employees who were ever let go, or who left on their own, not a single one was a ham.
>
> Different strokes, I suppose.
>
> 73 & QSH de Ray K2ULR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> To: Ray <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Sent: Fri, Jan 1, 2021 8:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] External sound card advice needed to attach to K3
>
> Famous last words. The reason I have never hired Hams!
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 1, 2021, at 7:19 PM, Ray <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Save your money!
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Sent from my iPad
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123