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Extra Protection For KPA500?

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Tony-3

Extra Protection For KPA500?

All:

I'd like to avoid the inevitable situation where one mistakenly
transmits too much power into an amplifier. I have a KPA500 and the
protection circuit works well, but I was wondering what can be done to
add an extra layer of protection?

Tony

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

Curiosity is getting the best of me --
If the built-in protection works well, why do you need more protection?
If the belt works OK, then why add suspenders as well?

If you are operating a K3 or K3S, there is a per band power level that
can be used. It will automatically use the settings for the amplifier
when the KPA500 is set to operate. That can be considered your 2nd
level of protection and it guards against "fumble fingers"

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2020 2:35 PM, Tony wrote:
> All:
>
> I'd like to avoid the inevitable situation where one mistakenly
> transmits too much power into an amplifier. I have a KPA500 and the
> protection circuit works well, but I was wondering what can be done to
> add an extra layer of protection?
>
> Tony
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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

Don et al,

On occasion the signal that the amp goes into Operate mode is not passed
along (or received, I don't know which), which means that the K3 will
operate at higher than required drive level, for a moment only because
the KPA500 will fault VERY quickly protecting everything.

However, I am unable to come up with a viable pair of suspenders, so I
simply try to be more aware when the amp goes hot.

The reverse can be true too; the K3 thinks the amp is still in operate
(but it isn't) and transmits at lower than expected output.

Yes, I've dis/reconnected the cables, made sure they're snugged in; it's
not repeatable, it's random. I do use the two cables (6') which is the
max allowed between the K3 and KPA, which may also be part of the
cause. (Moving it all into a new shack over the next few days, that
cable length will no longer be required.)

Rick NK7I

On 3/5/2020 2:38 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Curiosity is getting the best of me --
> If the built-in protection works well, why do you need more protection?
> If the belt works OK, then why add suspenders as well?
>
> If you are operating a K3 or K3S, there is a per band power level that
> can be used. It will automatically use the settings for the amplifier
> when the KPA500 is set to operate. That can be considered your 2nd
> level of protection and it guards against "fumble fingers"
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/5/2020 2:35 PM, Tony wrote:
>> All:
>>
>> I'd like to avoid the inevitable situation where one mistakenly
>> transmits too much power into an amplifier. I have a KPA500 and the
>> protection circuit works well, but I was wondering what can be done
>> to add an extra layer of protection?
>>
>> Tony
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

Rick,

When you move into the new shack location, consider getting the new AUX
cables from Elecraft. If your original ones have a large (about 1/4
inch diameter) cable, the new ones are smaller and more flexible.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/5/2020 5:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:

> Don et al,
>
> On occasion the signal that the amp goes into Operate mode is not passed
> along (or received, I don't know which), which means that the K3 will
> operate at higher than required drive level, for a moment only because
> the KPA500 will fault VERY quickly protecting everything.
>
> However, I am unable to come up with a viable pair of suspenders, so I
> simply try to be more aware when the amp goes hot.
>
> The reverse can be true too; the K3 thinks the amp is still in operate
> (but it isn't) and transmits at lower than expected output.
>

Michael Walker

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

Hi Tony

You do realize that the KPA500 does have over power protection as well?

Mike va3mw

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 6:17 PM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rick,
>
> When you move into the new shack location, consider getting the new AUX
> cables from Elecraft. If your original ones have a large (about 1/4
> inch diameter) cable, the new ones are smaller and more flexible.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/5/2020 5:57 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
> > Don et al,
> >
> > On occasion the signal that the amp goes into Operate mode is not passed
> > along (or received, I don't know which), which means that the K3 will
> > operate at higher than required drive level, for a moment only because
> > the KPA500 will fault VERY quickly protecting everything.
> >
> > However, I am unable to come up with a viable pair of suspenders, so I
> > simply try to be more aware when the amp goes hot.
> >
> > The reverse can be true too; the K3 thinks the amp is still in operate
> > (but it isn't) and transmits at lower than expected output.
> >
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>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Set the K3 or K3S TUNE power to 10 to 20 watts. I use 18 watts which drives my amp to 500 watts.
Then set the Power Per Band for the required value to produce 500 watts.

Then and this is a big THEN......turn on the Ext ALC in the transceiver and CORRECTLY calibrate the ALC value in the amp menu for the correct level for EACH band. This is very important. It does work correctly if calibrated and used correctly. That is what it is there for. I’ve done it, I’ve measured it, and it works.

Abuse it, incorrectly calibrate it, and suffer the consequences. It is an operator issue and not an equipment issue. So don’t blame the equipment.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 5, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Curiosity is getting the best of me --
> If the built-in protection works well, why do you need more protection?
> If the belt works OK, then why add suspenders as well?
>
> If you are operating a K3 or K3S, there is a per band power level that can be used. It will automatically use the settings for the amplifier when the KPA500 is set to operate. That can be considered your 2nd level of protection and it guards against "fumble fingers"
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 3/5/2020 2:35 PM, Tony wrote:
>> All:
>> I'd like to avoid the inevitable situation where one mistakenly transmits too much power into an amplifier. I have a KPA500 and the protection circuit works well, but I was wondering what can be done to add an extra layer of protection?
>> Tony
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Tony-3

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

All:

Thanks for the advice regarding protection for the KPA500. I use more
than one rig with my KPA500 so one has to pay attention to the drive
levels. I suspect the protection circuit could fail if you accidentally
pump 100 watts into the amp now and then.

Regarding the K3S power-per-band setting: it looks like it requires the
LOCK function to keep the power level one chooses. Is that the way it
works or is there another option besides LOCK?

Tony

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

Likewise I use two different radios on the desk. With the non-Elecraft radio I do have to exercise operator caution.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 12:19 AM, Tony <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> All:
>
> Thanks for the advice regarding protection for the KPA500. I use more than one rig with my KPA500 so one has to pay attention to the drive levels. I suspect the protection circuit could fail if you accidentally pump 100 watts into the amp now and then.
>
> Regarding the K3S power-per-band setting: it looks like it requires the LOCK function to keep the power level one chooses. Is that the way it works or is there another option besides LOCK?
>
> Tony
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Mark Musick

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Tony-3

Tony,
All you need to do is go into the config menu, go to PWR SET and change it from "nor" to "Per bAnd".
I have no idea what you are talking about with the LOCK function. The lock function I'm familiar with just locks the VFO A frequency.
As to the input protection circuit on the KPA500, I'm sure it is pretty robust and knowing Elecraft I wouldn't worry about it failing.
Of course you don't want to hit the KPA500 with 100 Watts. I would think you would want to develop some sort of operating procedure for your shack to make sure that doesn't happen.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 06:06
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Extra Protection For KPA500?

All:

Thanks for the advice regarding protection for the KPA500. I use more than one rig with my KPA500 so one has to pay attention to the drive levels. I suspect the protection circuit could fail if you accidentally pump 100 watts into the amp now and then.

Regarding the K3S power-per-band setting: it looks like it requires the LOCK function to keep the power level one chooses. Is that the way it works or is there another option besides LOCK?

Tony

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Tony-3

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

On 3/6/2020 12:13 PM, Mark Musick wrote:
> I have no idea what you are talking about with the LOCK function. The lock function I'm familiar with just locks the VFO A frequency.

Mark:

There's a separate lock function that locks the power setting so you
can't change it without unlocking it.

Tony

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

You can optionally LOCK the MIC, CMP, and PWR control settings. See
CONFIG: PWR SET

See PWR SET on page 63 of the manual for further details. There is a
special function for the KPA500 where 2 sets of power per band are
saved. One value is for the AMP and one for Barefoot operation.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/6/2020 12:27 PM, Tony wrote:

> On 3/6/2020 12:13 PM, Mark Musick wrote:
>> I have no idea what you are talking about with the LOCK function. The
>> lock function I'm familiar with just locks the VFO A frequency.
>
> Mark:
>
> There's a separate lock function that locks the power setting so you
> can't change it without unlocking it.
>
> Tony
>
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Tony-3

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Tony-3

> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr
> bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected.
> If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully
> automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ

George:

I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the config
menu, there's no power setting to set.

It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is
shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.

I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use this
setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Tony

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ANDY DURBIN

Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Tony-3

"I have a KPA500 and the protection circuit works well, but I was wondering what can be done to add an extra layer of protection?"

One approach is to use a micro-controller to manage the KPA500 and KPA500. However, most would rather avoid the additional complexity and the, not insignificant, development effort. My goal was to proactively protect against all the operator errors that would cause the KPA500 to trip a fault. I considered this to be a better approach than to rely on the KPA500 reactive protection. (Don't let the condition happen, rather than protect for it when it does happen).

I didn't think of the project as unnecessary complexity. I saw it as a challenge to keep my brain active in retirement. All the firmware was coded while I was monitoring the bands for new DX so no operating time was wasted.

Andy, k3wyc

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Tony-3

Tony,

Look at the CONFIG Menu description in the manual.
Turn CONFIG:PWR SET to Per Band and then with the AMP on, go to each
band and set the proper power to drive the amp on that band.

With the AMP off, you should have full range of the Power control.
Yes, you need the AUX cable so the K3 knows the state of the amplifier.
If you have the KAT500 as well, you will need 2 AUX cables.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/6/2020 2:07 PM, Tony wrote:

>
>> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr
>> bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected.
>> If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully
>> automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ
>
> George:
>
> I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the config
> menu, there's no power setting to set.
>
> It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is
> shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.
>
> I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use this
> setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Tony
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

The key here is the need for the AuxIO cable. The K3 exposes the second set of per-band power settings when it knows the KPA is attached and is in OPER mode. Of course to be able to communicate the AuxIO cable needs to connect the KPA to the K3, and the K3 needs to be set with RADIO = K3.

Once all the conditions are set, tap the OPER button on the KPA to put it in OPER mode. The K3 will show a message indicating that the KPA is ready to go. You should be able to set the power level on the K3 to whatever level you need. Tapping the OPER button on the KPA will take it back to STBY and the K3’s Power level should then show the non-amplified power level.

Of course, if you do not have the AuxIO cable installed, none of this magic can occur. The KPA needs to be able to talk to the K3 for our magic to happen.

73!
Jack, W6FB

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Tony,
>
> Look at the CONFIG Menu description in the manual.
> Turn CONFIG:PWR SET to Per Band and then with the AMP on, go to each band and set the proper power to drive the amp on that band.
>
> With the AMP off, you should have full range of the Power control.
> Yes, you need the AUX cable so the K3 knows the state of the amplifier.
> If you have the KAT500 as well, you will need 2 AUX cables.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 3/6/2020 2:07 PM, Tony wrote:
>>> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected. If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ
>> George:
>> I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the config menu, there's no power setting to set.
>> It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.
>> I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use this setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.
>> Tony
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Tony-3

Tony et al:

Go to the K3S CONFIG menu and PWR SET. Set the value to PER BAND.
Then exit this menu by pressing MENU/CONFIG. There IS NO value to set
at this point.   Then with the KPA500 on and in OPER mode, while in RX,
set the PWR value on the K3S to 20 watts or what ever power you wish to
drive the amp with for that band. That is saved for that mode and
band.   Then on to the next band.

When the KPA500 is in STBY mode the power value is what is set on the
K3S for barefoot operation. When the KPA500 is switched to OPER then
the power value is what you have set for that mode and band.   This does
require the KPA500 to communicate with the AUX cable.   See page 12 Fig
3 of the KPA500 manual for the configuration.

If you have the K3S, the KPA500 and the KAT500, then see page 5of the
KAT500 manual, Fig 1 for the correct cables and configuration.

As they say, it is all in the manuals.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/6/2020 1:07 PM, Tony wrote:

>
>> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr
>> bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected.
>> If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully
>> automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ
>
> George:
>
> I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the
> config menu, there's no power setting to set.
>
> It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is
> shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.
>
> I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use
> this setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Tony
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

With this regard, Jack Brindle is absolutely correct. The system as
designed is more than adequate to safely and correctly interface the K3S
to the KPA500 and then to the KAT500. If the operator chooses not to
use the system, as designed and intended, I view they they become a very
underpaid design engineer with unknown project outcome. Using another
computer/micro-controller only adds an additional element for failure.
There is no way to make the system idiot proof except to remove the
idiot from the equation.

Just use the cables as required and detailed in the manuals {which one
must have and read} and then follow the instructions in the manuals.
Don't give me the crap "well it doesn't operate like bla bla bla". That
is correct, it shouldn't and it doesn't.    It is an Elecraft and the
manual explains how it is to be utilized, and the methods do work.   I
sit here daily in front of my K3S, KPA500, KAT500 and P3 with joy and a
smile on my face realizing how efficient the system integration works.
It is more like having a 500 watt transceiver that covers 160M - 6M and
works any mode I desire.   Now, that ain't bad!

73

Bob, K4TAX

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Tony-3

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Bob:

The AUX cable requirement makes sense. Can you recommend an aftermarket cable? I’ll need one for the KPA500 and another for the KAT500.

Thanks

Tony

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Tony et al:
>
> Go to the K3S CONFIG menu and PWR SET. Set the value to PER BAND. Then exit this menu by pressing MENU/CONFIG. There IS NO value to set at this point. Then with the KPA500 on and in OPER mode, while in RX, set the PWR value on the K3S to 20 watts or what ever power you wish to drive the amp with for that band. That is saved for that mode and band. Then on to the next band.
>
> When the KPA500 is in STBY mode the power value is what is set on the K3S for barefoot operation. When the KPA500 is switched to OPER then the power value is what you have set for that mode and band. This does require the KPA500 to communicate with the AUX cable. See page 12 Fig 3 of the KPA500 manual for the configuration.
>
> If you have the K3S, the KPA500 and the KAT500, then see page 5of the KAT500 manual, Fig 1 for the correct cables and configuration.
>
> As they say, it is all in the manuals.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>> On 3/6/2020 1:07 PM, Tony wrote:
>>
>>> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected. If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ
>>
>> George:
>>
>> I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the config menu, there's no power setting to set.
>>
>> It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.
>>
>> I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use this setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

Just order the two cables from Elecraft as it is a special wired and
configured cable. E85046 I doubt seriously if an aftermarket cable
would work.

The manual clearly states "do not use a standard VGA cable!"

The KAT500 manual, page 5, Fig. 1 is the correct configuration for your
application. It requires 2 of the E85046 cables. This is not the time
to be conservative or cut cost corners. You have ~$8500 in radios
depending on this.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/6/2020 2:06 PM, Tony wrote:

> Bob:
>
> The AUX cable requirement makes sense. Can you recommend an aftermarket cable? I’ll need one for the KPA500 and another for the KAT500.
>
> Thanks
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Tony et al:
>>
>> Go to the K3S CONFIG menu and PWR SET. Set the value to PER BAND. Then exit this menu by pressing MENU/CONFIG. There IS NO value to set at this point. Then with the KPA500 on and in OPER mode, while in RX, set the PWR value on the K3S to 20 watts or what ever power you wish to drive the amp with for that band. That is saved for that mode and band. Then on to the next band.
>>
>> When the KPA500 is in STBY mode the power value is what is set on the K3S for barefoot operation. When the KPA500 is switched to OPER then the power value is what you have set for that mode and band. This does require the KPA500 to communicate with the AUX cable. See page 12 Fig 3 of the KPA500 manual for the configuration.
>>
>> If you have the K3S, the KPA500 and the KAT500, then see page 5of the KAT500 manual, Fig 1 for the correct cables and configuration.
>>
>> As they say, it is all in the manuals.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>> On 3/6/2020 1:07 PM, Tony wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected. If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ
>>> George:
>>>
>>> I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the config menu, there's no power setting to set.
>>>
>>> It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.
>>>
>>> I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use this setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>
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>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Extra Protection For KPA500?

One other thing to consider is that you don’t want to connect all of the pins straight through from the K3 to the KPA500. There are some conflicts that will cause problems. The Elecraft cables are set up properly with the appropriate pins cut that should not connect between the two devices. An alternative is to use a straight-through HD15-HD15 cable with the appropriate pins cut. Cutting them yourself is a pain, so we really don’t recommend that route.

73!
Jack, W6FB

> On Mar 6, 2020, at 12:19 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just order the two cables from Elecraft as it is a special wired and configured cable. E85046 I doubt seriously if an aftermarket cable would work.
>
> The manual clearly states "do not use a standard VGA cable!"
>
> The KAT500 manual, page 5, Fig. 1 is the correct configuration for your application. It requires 2 of the E85046 cables. This is not the time to be conservative or cut cost corners. You have ~$8500 in radios depending on this.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 3/6/2020 2:06 PM, Tony wrote:
>> Bob:
>>
>> The AUX cable requirement makes sense. Can you recommend an aftermarket cable? I’ll need one for the KPA500 and another for the KAT500.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tony et al:
>>>
>>> Go to the K3S CONFIG menu and PWR SET. Set the value to PER BAND. Then exit this menu by pressing MENU/CONFIG. There IS NO value to set at this point. Then with the KPA500 on and in OPER mode, while in RX, set the PWR value on the K3S to 20 watts or what ever power you wish to drive the amp with for that band. That is saved for that mode and band. Then on to the next band.
>>>
>>> When the KPA500 is in STBY mode the power value is what is set on the K3S for barefoot operation. When the KPA500 is switched to OPER then the power value is what you have set for that mode and band. This does require the KPA500 to communicate with the AUX cable. See page 12 Fig 3 of the KPA500 manual for the configuration.
>>>
>>> If you have the K3S, the KPA500 and the KAT500, then see page 5of the KAT500 manual, Fig 1 for the correct cables and configuration.
>>>
>>> As they say, it is all in the manuals.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3/6/2020 1:07 PM, Tony wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tony, The Config Menu has a Per-Band power setting (PWR SET = PEr bAnd) that will set the power output depending on the band selected. If you use the Aux cable between the K3 and KPA500 is is fully automatic and seamless. 73 George AI4VZ
>>>> George:
>>>>
>>>> I must be missing something because when I select PER BAND in the config menu, there's no power setting to set.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't display the power like TUN PWR does where the tune power is shown within that menu item so you can adjust it.
>>>>
>>>> I have to order the AUX cable, but in the meantime I'd like to use this setting with the K3S so any suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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