FCC rules part 18
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Re: Re: FCC rules part 18 [CF bulbs vs. LED]
 
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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:32:23 -0700, Fred Jensen wrote:
>Don't light bulbs fall under 47CFR15? You would think so, but when it comes to Part 15, Part 18, and all other stuff regulated by the Office of Engineering and Technology, it's been "Let's Make a Deal" for decades. Sadly, the FCC isn't what it used to be. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
From: [hidden email] > It is possible that the push > to legislate use of CF is an attempt by the CF industry to cement their > use before LED lighting reaches this stage. Maybe, but I doubt it, because all the legislation I've heard of is simply aimed against conventional incandescents. LEDs will benefit too. IMHO, the push is driven by two concerns. First is the desire to "do something" about energy policy/greenhouse gases/pollution/conservation/etc., and reducing the enormous number of kWh used to power incandescents is a quick fix - or seems to be, anyway. Second is the need/desire to avoid building more power plants and transmission lines by reducing demand. New York City is doing things like replacing all its traffic lights with LEDs for demand reduction. -- While I'm all for energy efficiency, and use CFLs myself, I would rather see people educated to replace low-efficiency devices and systems with high-efficiency ones rather than by outlawing any particular technology. There are some applications where incandescents may be needed or preferred to other technologies. And CFLs are already cost-effective for most applications, while LEDs soon will be. 73 de Jim, N2EY (Elecraft products don't use incadescents at all, IIRC) ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part 18 [CF bulbs vs. LED])
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This thread seems to have come around to an Elecraft issue again.
Running in parallel is a discussion about whether it's necessary to leave equipment powered on in a marine environment to avoid corrosion. I've serviced a lot of electronic equipment on ships and have seldom encountered either special coatings or corrosion. The exceptions are those things actually exposed to the salt water, such as equipment on deck that is sprayed with salt regularly and occasionally might flooded by a wave. They are sealed in a gasketed enclosure with desiccant inside. Leaving the power applied might help but it's has become a huge energy sink for our nation - and most nations. In the USA an estimated 5% of our total residential power goes to keeping gear "alive" when we're not using it. The percentage is greater in some European and Asian countries. (I'm not sure whether that's because more gear is running in "standby" or they have less total residential power consumption.) You can plug "standby power" into your favorite search engine and get a whole lot of responses. One is http://standby.lbl.gov/faq.html According to the above site, here in the USA currently 5% of our total electrical demand goes to power equipment we're not using running up a US$5 billion dollar annual bill for homeowners! Of course, most of this gear is not Ham gear left on to keep the cabinet dry or the circuits stable. That's a much bigger sink than the average "standby" power consumer: your TV, stereo or anything that lacks a mechanical switch you must throw to turn it on. All of those appliances have a little keep-alive circuit sitting there watching for the "power on" signal. It's the total of all of those appliances that adds up to most of that 5 billion dollar bill, but you can be sure a Ham rig sitting there cooking away is consuming more than most of those devices - likely more than a dozen such devices. While it's likely most of us can afford the extra cost of leaving our gear powered up to keep it dry, it doesn't sound like the right choice for those who want to be good stewards for our planet. Has anyone considered using desiccants? I believe the one used most often around electronic gear is silica dioxide (SiO2). It's a naturally occurring mineral that is commonly sold in an "indicating" form, small crystals that change from blue to pink as the material absorbs moisture. It can absorb up to 40% of its own weight at normal room temperatures and is quite easy to "recharge". You just put it in a warm oven for a while until it turns blue again! It's often sold in inexpensive five-pound cans by stores catering to the dried-flower trade. Even though I've lived within a few hundred feet of the Pacific Ocean I've yet to encounter any corrosion problems. If I did my first choice would be to reduce the humidity in some energy-efficient way rather than simply leave the power on. If one wanted to be really rigorous about it, a small solar oven could handle the recharging process <G>. Even on ships, it takes months - often a year or two - for something like the old-fashioned lifeboat radios that enclosed about a cubit foot of air inside their case to have a desiccant tube about 1 inch in diameter and 4 inches long become saturated. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part 18[CF bulbs vs. LED])
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> While it's likely most of us can afford the extra cost of leaving our
> gear powered up to keep it dry, it doesn't sound like the right choice > for those who want to be good stewards for our planet. I don't know. What has the planet done for me lately? I see a lot of oil not being pumped to make gas for my car, a lot of radioactive material not generating electricity, and a lot of sunshine just bouncing off the surface of the earth without doing any useful work. I don't consider the 5% I spend when my TV is shut off to be "wasted". It's sitting there doing exactly what I want it to do: Be ready when I hit the button on my remote control. Similarly, my computer runs all night, doing a few tasks that I schedule for overnight but mostly just downloading email, filtering spam, and waiting to be there first thing in the morning so I don't have to wait for it to boot up. It's like the batteries in my laptop, Wii-mote, or cell phone. When I'm not actively using the device, the batteries are slowing dying. I'm not "wasting" that energy -- I'm "using" it to keep those devices ready for me to use at a moment's notice. I want *more* things to be always on, ready for me to use them. I rented a Prius once and one of the cool things was you just got in and pressed the "on" button and started driving. That was nice. But I want the heater pre-heated so I don't have to sit in the cold for the first five minutes of my trip. I want the air-conditioner pre-cooled for similar reasons in the summer. I want hot water as soon as I turn on the shower. I want coffee ready when I get up. I want the lights to be green when I get to the intersection. If the planet really wanted my attention it would do something about the weather -- or the Virginia Tech shootings. Now *that* would be impressive. Craig NZ0R _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part 18[CF bulbs vs. LED])
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Craig Rairdin wrote:
> I don't know. What has the planet done for me lately? Kept you alive? David - G3XLW _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part18[CF bulbs vs. LED])
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Please. Only because of its own selfish need for carbon dioxide and human
waste products. And it frankly can get that from any number of sources. It has no interest in me, personally. Craig -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Powell Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:30 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part18[CF bulbs vs. LED]) Craig Rairdin wrote: > I don't know. What has the planet done for me lately? Kept you alive? David - G3XLW _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Craig Rairdin
Craig,
It's hard to believe, but I think you're actually serious. I never dreamed the cunsumptive ugly American actually exsisted beyond the minds of those of other less-consumptive nations who -think- Americans are that way. Then you come along and give us a first-person example that they're right. What an awful and attitude! It's regretful that the rest of us have to share our planet with you. I suspect I'm not the only one you've offended with your unsolicited, off-the-wall diatribe. Ken Kopp - K0PP [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Craig Rairdin
Sad.
On 4/17/07, Craig Rairdin <[hidden email]> wrote: > > While it's likely most of us can afford the extra cost of leaving our > > gear powered up to keep it dry, it doesn't sound like the right choice > > for those who want to be good stewards for our planet. > > I don't know. What has the planet done for me lately? I see a lot of oil not > being pumped to make gas for my car, a lot of radioactive material not ... > If the planet really wanted my attention it would do something about the > weather -- or the Virginia Tech shootings. Now *that* would be impressive. > > Almost makes me wish I could be abducted by alien's from another planet. -- 73, Rod Ai7NN _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part18[CF bulbs vs. LED])
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In reply to this post by Ken Kopp
That is exactly why energy must be made expensive,
so people have to pay through the nose for it. I vote for gas at $6.00 a gallon and a forty cent killowatt hour, only then will people pay any attention and do something. As it is, we have 2 TV's and 2 vcr's and the extra freezer my wife cant do without... They all bug me, just wasting watts! Brett N2DTS > Craig, > > It's hard to believe, but I think you're actually serious. > > I never dreamed the cunsumptive ugly American actually > exsisted beyond the minds of those of other less-consumptive > nations who -think- Americans are that way. Then you come > along and give us a first-person example that they're right. > > What an awful and attitude! It's regretful that the rest of us > have to share our planet with you. > > I suspect I'm not the only one you've offended with your > unsolicited, off-the-wall diatribe. > > Ken Kopp - K0PP > [hidden email] > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Re: FCC rules part 18 [CF bulbs vs. LED]
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In reply to this post by w2bvh
If any of those products you mention have 220/240V equivalents for use in Europe they will have a CE mark (according to ISO/IEC Guide 22 and EN45014). As such the Declaration Of Conformity should be available for public scrutiny. Some firms actually publish their DOCs on the web to engender confidence in their products. The DOC will list all appropriate specifications, emc, safety, etc to which the product must conform.
Is there a US equivalent to this? David G3UNA > > From: [hidden email] > Date: 2007/04/17 Tue PM 08:33:44 BST > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: FCC rules part 18 [CF bulbs vs. LED] > > > From: [hidden email] > > > It is possible that the push > > to legislate use of CF is an attempt by the CF industry to cement > their > > use before LED lighting reaches this stage. > > Maybe, but I doubt it, because all the legislation I've heard of is > simply aimed > against conventional incandescents. LEDs will benefit too. > > IMHO, the push is driven by two concerns. > > First is the desire to "do something" about energy policy/greenhouse > gases/pollution/conservation/etc., > and reducing the enormous number of kWh used to power incandescents is > a quick fix - or seems > to be, anyway. > > Second is the need/desire to avoid building more power plants and > transmission lines > by reducing demand. New York City is doing things like replacing all > its traffic lights with > LEDs for demand reduction. > > -- > > While I'm all for energy efficiency, and use CFLs myself, I would > rather see people educated to replace low-efficiency > devices and systems with high-efficiency ones rather than by outlawing > any particular technology. > There are some applications where incandescents may be needed or > preferred to other > technologies. And CFLs are already cost-effective for most > applications, while LEDs soon will be. > > 73 de Jim, N2EY > > (Elecraft products don't use incadescents at all, IIRC) > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Saving Energy and staying dry (WAS: FCC rules part 18[CF bulbs vs. LED])
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In reply to this post by David Powell-10
Maybe this thread could just die quietly....
Quoting David Powell <[hidden email]>: > Craig Rairdin wrote: > > I don't know. What has the planet done for me lately? > > Kept you alive? > > David - G3XLW > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: FCC rules part 18 [CF bulbs vs. LED]
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In reply to this post by N2EY
And yet, billions of computer monitors, CRT's, and LCD's around the
world are programmed to never go into sleep mode and and reduce power. Drive past any large company at the end of the day and you will see fancy screen savers running, instead of just powering down the monitor. Motion sensitive lights and the fast amounts of money spent to light the night sky. "Penny wise, and pound foolish". David Wilburn [hidden email] K4DGW K2 #5982 [hidden email] wrote: > > From: [hidden email] > >> It is possible that the push >> to legislate use of CF is an attempt by the CF industry to cement > their >> use before LED lighting reaches this stage. > > Maybe, but I doubt it, because all the legislation I've heard of is > simply aimed > against conventional incandescents. LEDs will benefit too. > > IMHO, the push is driven by two concerns. > > First is the desire to "do something" about energy policy/greenhouse > gases/pollution/conservation/etc., > and reducing the enormous number of kWh used to power incandescents is a > quick fix - or seems > to be, anyway. > > Second is the need/desire to avoid building more power plants and > transmission lines > by reducing demand. New York City is doing things like replacing all its > traffic lights with > LEDs for demand reduction. > > -- > > While I'm all for energy efficiency, and use CFLs myself, I would rather > see people educated to replace low-efficiency > devices and systems with high-efficiency ones rather than by outlawing > any particular technology. > There are some applications where incandescents may be needed or > preferred to other > technologies. And CFLs are already cost-effective for most applications, > while LEDs soon will be. > > 73 de Jim, N2EY > > (Elecraft products don't use incadescents at all, IIRC) > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com. > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Saving Energy and staying dry [END of THREAD]
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Administrator
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In reply to this post by Tom Zeltwanger
Please, let's keep list discussion civil, without personal attacks and
comments, regardless of how far off from your personal opinion a posting may be. We have over 3,000 list subscribers and I can guarantee that we will get all sorts of opinions on any topic. And many times comments will be easily mis-interpreted due to the sterility of email. Time to end this thread. [Both the CF lighting and use of planetary resources threads..] Back to our regular K1, KX1, K2 ... topics. :-) 73, Eric WA6HHQ List Moderator _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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