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FS: New CM500 headset

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Edward R Cole

FS: New CM500 headset

I bought a new Yamaha CM500 headset last spring to compare with
AntLion boom mic.
The AntLion attaches to my trusty Sony MDR-V800 stereo headset and
got good reports on the air.

I tried the CM500 and immediately my hearings howled with feedback
even with headset not connected to a radio. Totally unsuitable for
use by me so I am selling the CM500 (which I bought for $59.99)
asking $48.00 (including priority mail shipping which cost me
$13.65). Current best price is $58.29 on Amazon.com with free
shipping. You save $10.29.

I prefer PayPal but will accept check or money order.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

To quote that ancient Chinese philosopher: Sum-Ting-Wong...."

Find that and your "howls" will go away.

There's far too many satisfied users of the CM-500's for anything that
drastic to be the norm.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Edward R Cole
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 4:24 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] FS: New CM500 headset

I bought a new Yamaha CM500 headset last spring to compare with AntLion boom
mic.
The AntLion attaches to my trusty Sony MDR-V800 stereo headset and got good
reports on the air.

I tried the CM500 and immediately my hearings howled with feedback even with
headset not connected to a radio. Totally unsuitable for use by me so I am
selling the CM500 (which I bought for $59.99) asking $48.00 (including
priority mail shipping which cost me $13.65). Current best price is $58.29
on Amazon.com with free shipping. You save $10.29.

I prefer PayPal but will accept check or money order.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Raymond Sills

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

Good point Charlie. I have a Sony MDR-7506 headset, with is a "cover the ear" type... and have not issues with my hearing aids. If Ed can't find the cause and sells the CM-500... it's a good deal for someone. I'm tempted myself, but I really don't "need" it.

These days, I'm trying to be very cautious about accumulating more stuff. We had a ham in my local club who passed away, but left behind an enormous stash of gear. It's been almost two years, and there still is stuff looking for a new home... even at $free.

73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211

-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie T <[hidden email]>
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sun, Nov 25, 2018 7:50 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FS: New CM500 headset

To quote that ancient Chinese philosopher: Sum-Ting-Wong...."

Find that and your "howls" will go away.

There's far too many satisfied users of the CM-500's for anything that
drastic to be the norm.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Edward R Cole
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 4:24 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] FS: New CM500 headset

I bought a new Yamaha CM500 headset last spring to compare with AntLion boom
mic.
The AntLion attaches to my trusty Sony MDR-V800 stereo headset and got good
reports on the air.

I tried the CM500 and immediately my hearings howled with feedback even with
headset not connected to a radio. Totally unsuitable for use by me so I am
selling the CM500 (which I bought for $59.99) asking $48.00 (including
priority mail shipping which cost me $13.65). Current best price is $58.29
on Amazon.com with free shipping. You save $10.29.

I prefer PayPal but will accept check or money order.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Don Wilhelm

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

My hearing aids require the use of headphones that have deep earcups.
The CM500 does not qualify.
However, my hearing in the low frequency region is close to normal, so I
remove my hearing aids when I use my CM500. Not all older hams have
that advantage.
I have a couple Sony headphones (not with a microphone) that I can use
with my hearing aids on.
I normally use speakers - but the hamshack is in a quiet place.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/25/2018 7:49 AM, Charlie T wrote:

> To quote that ancient Chinese philosopher: Sum-Ting-Wong...."
>
> Find that and your "howls" will go away.
>
> There's far too many satisfied users of the CM-500's for anything that
> drastic to be the norm.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
> Behalf Of Edward R Cole
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2018 4:24 AM
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] FS: New CM500 headset
>
> I bought a new Yamaha CM500 headset last spring to compare with AntLion boom
> mic.
> The AntLion attaches to my trusty Sony MDR-V800 stereo headset and got good
> reports on the air.
>
> I tried the CM500 and immediately my hearings howled with feedback even with
> headset not connected to a radio. Totally unsuitable for use by me so I am
> selling the CM500 (which I bought for $59.99) asking $48.00 (including
> priority mail shipping which cost me $13.65). Current best price is $58.29
> on Amazon.com with free shipping. You save $10.29.
>
> I prefer PayPal but will accept check or money order.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

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k6dgw

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

You might check with your audiologist to see if the anti-feedback on
your aids can be adjusted. Mine basically don't work under headphones
... gain it high enough that anti-feedback can't totally compensate, but
if I turn them down, they work OK under my CM500. I'm probably a poor
example since I'm nearly 100% CW, but I have found that the K3 RXEQ can
work wonders without the hearing aids.

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/25/2018 1:24 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> I bought a new Yamaha CM500 headset last spring to compare with
> AntLion boom mic.
> The AntLion attaches to my trusty Sony MDR-V800 stereo headset and got
> good reports on the air.
>
> I tried the CM500 and immediately my hearings howled with feedback
> even with headset not connected to a radio. Totally unsuitable for
> use by me so I am selling the CM500 (which I bought for $59.99) asking
> $48.00 (including priority mail shipping which cost me $13.65).
> Current best price is $58.29 on Amazon.com with free shipping. You
> save $10.29.
>
> I prefer PayPal but will accept check or money order.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW

Troy, W6HV

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

I have to take my hearing aids out to use the headphones. Also, saves
battery time on the hearing aids.

73, Troy, W6HV

On 11/25/2018 11:00 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> You might check with your audiologist to see if the anti-feedback on
> your aids can be adjusted. Mine basically don't work under headphones
> ... gain it high enough that anti-feedback can't totally compensate,
> but if I turn them down, they work OK under my CM500. I'm probably a
> poor example since I'm nearly 100% CW, but I have found that the K3
> RXEQ can work wonders without the hearing aids.
>
> 73,
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>

Edward R Cole

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Well I got quite a few comments back on the CM500.

Firstly, I have extreme hearing loss. Without my Phonac-Silvia
hearing aids the world it very quiet. I have something like 30-dB
loss in both ears so not wearing them with headphones is not an
option. As many of you may know, hearing loss is not simply lack of
volume. I have a lot of problem with speech recognition.

For instance even wearing my hearing aids (which cost me $5200) I
still need closed-captioning when watching TV (at any
volume). Hearing weak-signals on ham radio I use my headsets a lot
(while wearing the hearing aids). My (now pretty old) Sony MDR-V600
stereo headphones do pretty well. Never any feedback with my over
the ear aids). Unfortunately the acoustic design of the CM500
produced immediate and continuous feedback.

I bought them along with the AntLion boom mic for comparison. The
AntLion installed on my "old" Sony headset work just fine and I got
great audio reports with the boom mic. So that made an easy decision
not requiring engineering solutions or "fixes" by my
audiologist. Main purpose was acquiring a boom mic for portable
operating situations.

Also hearing SSB with either NB or NR causes enough distortion of the
sound to make it harder to understand speech (yes I have tried all
the different settings). My hearing rolls off at 1000-Hz so I lose
the consonant sounds. Lake/take/bake/make... all sound like eight or ate.

Digital modes work well for me: I can read FB; volume can be set to
zero. When I run my 1500w amp for eme I do not wear my hearing aids
to lower blower noise (probably > 120 dba). CW I would need 40-dB or
higher isolation in the headset. I'm moving all my QRO amps out of
the shack for this reason (and for less coax line loss).

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. Simple solution was to sell the CM500.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

Are you sure of those figures? 30dB is normally only considered mild
loss. 15dB is in the normal range.

I have at least 40dB. across the spectrum, in one ear, and 15dB at
500Hz, degrading to 70dB at 8kHz, in the other, and I'm only classed as
having a moderate loss. These figures are a few years old, so the
current ones are marginally worse.

If you have severe enough loss to need full ear moulds, I think all
modern aids have various options to directly feed the aid with, at least
mono, audio, and some headsets will naturally work with aids that can be
set to an induction loop setting.

Typical options for full stereo, are blank headsets, that just create an
induction field, ear hooks that hook over the ear and create an
induction field, and direct audio input shoes that plug into over the
ear aids, and allow a copper connection to the aid.

For most aids you can get a bluetooth adapter, that you wear on a,
conductive, neck loop. This is generally mono. You can typically
provide a copper audio feed to these, in which case there is no
bluetooth (the near field link uses a different protocol, and at HF, not
SHF), or you can remote bluetooth adapters, which have low latency, as
well as the normal bluetooth adapters, with their high latency.

The Phonak brand name for this feature is ComPilot. My aids are Oticon,
for which it is ConnectLine.

I think the open fit aids, used by people with, typical, age related,
high frequency loss may be more of a challenge, as they are designed to
pass the low frequencies directly and only amplify the high ones.

--
David Woolley
Owner K2 06123

On 27/11/2018 01:20, Edward R Cole wrote:

> Firstly, I have extreme hearing loss. Without my Phonac-Silvia hearing
> aids the world it very quiet. I have something like 30-dB loss in both
> ears so not wearing

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John Simmons

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

A friend of mine told me about the new Olive hearing aids coming from S.
Korea. They are currently being sold only on Indiegogo and one ear is
$139 instead of the multikilobuck jobs. I'm interested to hear how they
work for him. You configure the amplification and response curves using
a smartphone app.

-John NI0K

David Woolley wrote:

>
> Are you sure of those figures? 30dB is normally only considered mild
> loss. 15dB is in the normal range.
>
> I have at least 40dB. across the spectrum, in one ear, and 15dB at
> 500Hz, degrading to 70dB at 8kHz, in the other, and I'm only classed
> as having a moderate loss. These figures are a few years old, so the
> current ones are marginally worse.
>
> If you have severe enough loss to need full ear moulds, I think all
> modern aids have various options to directly feed the aid with, at
> least mono, audio, and some headsets will naturally work with aids
> that can be set to an induction loop setting.
>
> Typical options for full stereo, are blank headsets, that just create
> an induction field, ear hooks that hook over the ear and create an
> induction field, and direct audio input shoes that plug into over the
> ear aids, and allow a copper connection to the aid.
>
> For most aids you can get a bluetooth adapter, that you wear on a,
> conductive, neck loop. This is generally mono. You can typically
> provide a copper audio feed to these, in which case there is no
> bluetooth (the near field link uses a different protocol, and at HF,
> not SHF), or you can remote bluetooth adapters, which have low
> latency, as well as the normal bluetooth adapters, with their high
> latency.
>
> The Phonak brand name for this feature is ComPilot. My aids are
> Oticon, for which it is ConnectLine.
>
> I think the open fit aids, used by people with, typical, age related,
> high frequency loss may be more of a challenge, as they are designed
> to pass the low frequencies directly and only amplify the high ones.
>

Edward R Cole

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

David Woolley wrote:
"Are you sure of those figures? 30dB is normally only considered mild
loss. 15dB is in the normal range."

Good question - I am unsure. I have my annual hearing test tomorrow
and will ask my audiologist for a spectrum chart for each ear.

I have an optional remote that provides bluetooth connection which I
use with my iphone. It also has a little plug-in adapter to provide
bluetooth connection to any audio source (probably intended for
computer soundcard connection). I have not tried it.

The hearing aids provide for T-coil connection but I found that not
good for my use. Picks up too much magnetic fields and noise.

Let you know my results after my checkup.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

In reply to this post by John Simmons

The National Health Service in the UK tends to use slightly modified
commercial designs that are maybe a couple of years old, and their input
costs are something like that.

However, I don't think self fitting would be allowed in the UK, as
setting the gain too high can cause unnecessary damage to residual
hearing, and many new users would set it too low to be effective.
Mobile phones are also not accurately calibrated. The other reason for
not allowing self fitting of real hearing aids is that hearing loss can
be a warning of more serious things, like brain tumours, and a proper
audiologist will refer patients for more detailed investigation if there
are hints of that.

Also, this is only going to work with open fit aids. You can have just
a few sizes of fitting. They do tend to work well for people with age
related loss, where most of the loss is in the high frequencies. People
with more complex losses require custom made ear moulds, and the most
difficult cases actually require aids that change the frequency of the
sounds.

It looks like Olive only address the easy end of the market. I'm not
even sure it would be classified as a hearing aid in the UK (hearing
aids are prescription only - RX Only in US terms). I can find none of
the technical documentation that I would expect for a normal aid, and,
in particular, I can find no graphs showing the performance envelope.
It looks like it has something more like an in the ear headphone fitting
than the sort of fitting you would expect on a normal hearing aid.

It has enough output to damage hearing if used incorrectly.

It looks to only have one microphone, and loss of directionality is one
of the big problems with using hearing aids. Multiple microphones allow
some beam forming.

Hearing aid pricing is complex, because the marginal cost of manufacture
is quite low, but there are are high R&D costs for the noise reduction
and automatic adaptation. A lot of the R&D will be recovered by private
buyers paying a large premium for the latest technology (a bit like
films take a lot from theatre audiences, but eventually are sold cheaply
to TV stations). Also the service costs in prescribing and maintaining
can be high. For the NHS these dominate the cost of the physical
instruments.

--
David Woolley

On 28/11/2018 02:48, John Simmons wrote:
> A friend of mine told me about the new Olive hearing aids coming from S.
> Korea. They are currently being sold only on Indiegogo and one ear is
> $139 instead of the multikilobuck jobs. I'm interested to hear how they
> work for him. You configure the amplification and response curves using
> a smartphone app.
>
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Edward R Cole

Re: FS: New CM500 headset

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

This will be my final post on this topic which has morphed to hearing loss.

I had my annual hearing test today. I asked for a chart and out of
curiosity we looked back to my first exam in 1996 which resulted
initially getting hearing aids.
Apparently little change but my audiologist remarked that i had
significant loss even back then at age 52.

I will summarize the chart L-ear/R-ear:
250-1000 Hz -55 dB
1000-1500 Hz -60/65 dB
1500-3000 Hz -80/70 dB
3000-4000 Hz -80/80 dB
>4000 Hz -110 dB/95 dB Equipment unable to produce sounds that I
can detect - essentially deaf above 4-KHz.
testing speech recognition without hearing aids I get about 50%
understanding - mostly via right earl

My hearings are 22-ch A/D and we made some radical adjustments
including a feature that translated some sounds at high freq to a
lower freq where I have better hearing. Anti-feedback is right on
margin which would explain sensitivity to the CM500 headset. She
made several adjustments to equalize my hearing for each ear. Really
works much better so will be interested to see how that affects
hearing weak-signals (aka eme signals).

Probably a good point to end this discussion on the list. Contact me
off list if you want further comment.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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