Elecraft

FT8: "Magic radio"?

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Carl Yaffey

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or what he/she does when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard

As soon as I start an FT8 “iso”, I go to QRZ and look the person up.

Carl Yaffey K8NU
Recording studio.
[hidden email]
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Bill Frantz

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Yes to both. I have taken advantage of the ability to receive,
even with long dropouts, by turning off my transmissions for a
few seconds to see if I'm on top of another station and
therefore having more problems getting through. This ability
also helps with noise bursts.

The QRM solution is inspired. If wsjt-x decodes a signal, it
will back encode that signal and subtract encoded signal from
the received signal. Frequently it can then decode a station on
the same or a nearby frequency. These "second decode" stations
are reported at the end of the decoding report.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 7/3/18 at 2:17 PM, [hidden email] (Jim Brown) wrote:

>And I suspect FT8 has much better immunityto noise and QRM.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | There are now so many exceptions to the
408-356-8506 | Fourth Amendment that it operates only by
www.pwpconsult.com | accident. - William Hugh Murray

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Tim Herrick

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by w0mu

Mike, you hit the nail on the head. This is a mode that the big guns can't just overpower the little guy and be the first in and out. I bet it drives them nuts being relegated to the level of the small guns.

73
Tim, KQ8M
[hidden email]

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 16:25
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that
would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack
the calls heard? FT8 just allows them to complete 1 to 5 contacts at
one time. That to me is pretty amazing! There is still plenty of
skill in working FT8 if the goal is to get in and get out quick just
like any more. Hey if you have all day to work someone chances are you
will get them sooner or later.

The cool part about this and the most important part is this mode is
allowing people with really marginally poor stations to be able to
actually get on Ham Radio and work people and work DX! It has to be
exciting for them!

Try to put yourself in their shoes. It is a whole new world! We need
more activity, more active hams and maybe FT8 will be a building block
to get more people in. I would hope this is a good thing!

W0MU

On 7/3/2018 2:10 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

> I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made available. I was also an early adopter of JT9 and FT8. I have enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and FT8 for HF and 6 m QSO. Using DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different experience. I felt that the operator had been taken much too far "out of the loop". I'm glad I made more KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found them much more satisfying.
>
> FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the only way I could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in my log. KH1 was DX 200 worked CW in 4 years. That was nice and only the magic of propagation was involved.
>
> 73,
> Andy k3wyc
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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W2SE

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

FT8 Hands-Off Ham Radio ;)

On 03-Jul-18 15:36, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the level of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham radio’.”
>
> New contest category?
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
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Tommy

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

I do the same thing. I'll add that I am always at the controls during
FT8 contacts. I do nothing automatic with it. I laugh at all the hate
FT8 gets. I don't get it.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS

On 07/03/2018 05:32 PM, Carl Yaffey wrote:
> On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or what he/she does when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard
> As soon as I start an FT8 “iso”, I go to QRZ and look the person up.
>
>
> Carl Yaffey K8NU
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that
> aren't there.

Not true. It takes advantage of large polynomial encoding that allows
the decoder to "get the message" in spite of missing or damaged bits.
That's no different than *an experienced CW operator* will "copy"
callsigns through noise and QRM by picking up one or two characters
at a time from multiple repeats.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> In a message to this group back in February I wrote:
>
>     Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
>     up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
>     be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
>     parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
>     message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
>     and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
>     than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
>     lost and they contain no message information."
>
> Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that aren't
> there.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the
>> level of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic
>> radio’ instead of ‘ham radio’.”
>>
>> New contest category?
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

Administrator

In reply to this post by W2SE

Folks - Let's end this OT thread at this time in the interest of relieving other
readers from email overload.

73,
Eric
Mooderator..
/elecraft.com/
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Carl-N8VZ

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

Grant,

Was that a McBee desk-sized rather than desktop computer? I saw one of those in my youth, but I live in the town where they were manufactured.

73,

Carl
N8VZ

Sent from my iPhone
===========================
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718

[hidden email]
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh

IRLP 4533 Echolink 116070

PSK and JT65 Forever!
===========================

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 8:46 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Folks - Let's end this OT thread at this time in the interest of relieving other readers from email overload.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> Mooderator..
> /elecraft.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Even in my analog EME days, a pretty good test of a CW op, I never once heard a
signal that was there before I started listening. (G4WJS was responding to my
concern about K3's timing issues on FT8 delaying transmission.)

Now the JT65 guys "copy" callsigns by looking up the closest sounding one in a
database with the program saying "Ah ha" that must be the one.

I realize that contest software does the same guessing these days, but I don't
regularly operate in contests, so I use my regular log and type it in myself.

Regards,

Wes N7WS

On 7/3/2018 4:48 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>
>> Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that
>> aren't there.
>
> Not true. It takes advantage of large polynomial encoding that allows
> the decoder to "get the message" in spite of missing or damaged bits.
> That's no different than *an experienced CW operator* will "copy"
> callsigns through noise and QRM by picking up one or two characters
> at a time from multiple repeats.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>> In a message to this group back in February I wrote:
>>
>>     Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
>>     up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
>>     be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
>>     parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
>>     message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
>>     and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
>>     than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
>>     lost and they contain no message information."
>>
>> Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that aren't there.
>>
>> Wes N7WS

Neil Zampella

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN

Andy,

that's not right ... you have to be in the shack to make sure the system
keeps calling as there is a 2 minute timer that will turn off your
transmission. It is also suggested that if you don't get a reply
back after the first two minute period, manually move the Tx freq.

Finally, once you do get that final acknowledgement from the DXpedition,
you have to physically log the QSO. It does not do it automatically.

From the DXPedition mode user guide:

"You may keep calling until he answers, perhaps changing your Tx
frequency in the hope of finding a frequency clear of interference. Use
Shift+Click on the waterfall to change your Tx frequency — the red “goal
posts” marker on the waterfall scale. You will need to re-activate
Enable Tx (or hit Enter on the keyboard) at least once every two
minutes. (This restriction is to ensure that an operator is present and
paying attention.)"

As far as it still running, you must have missed this part of the Users
Guide for HOUNDS in Item 12:

"Note that WSJT-X will send this message even if Enable Tx is disabled,
and even if you have not called Fox for several Tx sequences. If you
have stopped calling Fox because you will be leaving the rig unattended,
you should quit WSJT-X or disable Hound mode in order to avoid the
possibility of unwanted transmissions."

So again, the operator is still in charge of what he's doing.

All that said, there are a lot of people who live in very compromised
locations that now have KH1 in their logs because of FT8.
Unfortunately, it wasn't me. My location is such I didn't hear them on
any mode.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 7/3/2018 4:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

> "How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack the calls heard?"
>
> The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does not even require the operator to be in the shack to complete the QSO. All it takes is to start auto TX of your grid and then walk away. As long as your call gets on the stack before your watchdog times out (assuming you have not defeated it) then the rest is automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had timed out.
>
> Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned off TX Enable. Although I was still in the shack I had no involvement in completing the QSO. I was just a spectator. That is very different from the level of interaction required to complete a QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.
>
> I have no opinion on the experience of the DXpedition operator. Never been one and not likely to be one.
>
> 73,
> Andy k3wyc
>
>
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hi All,

I was thinking about the differences between using the digital modes on HF andKnob and Dial modes, and I came up with this comparison.

     Basically ft8 and digital modes take morework on the setup end and are easy to operate and "knob and dial"radios have little setup and the most time is spent directing the operation.Both take the same amount of effort but are inverse.
   My limited math abilities express then relationship as-

Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K

  Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K

Where Dm=Digital Mode          Kd=Knoband Dial radios          S= Setup
          O=Operating          τ= Time         K= Total effort

Revisionswelcome-----    Doug Millar K6JEY

Dr.Doug Millar EdD.
K6JEY
[hidden email]
562 810 3989 cell/text

On Tuesday, July 3, 2018, 12:37:05 PM PDT, Wayne Burdick [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:


Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the level of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham radio’.”

New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR

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Neil Zampella

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by w0mu

Mike,

the only automation is in the middle of the contact, the operator has to
be in front of the radio and computer in order to select a station to
answer, to begin transmission, and to log the QSO.

None of that is automated in WSJT-X. I cannot speak for other programs
that have gone beyond that.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 7/3/2018 5:06 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:

> That is FT8. There is no involvement once the contact starts. That is
> the beauty of it. The automation is no legal in the USA and many
> other places but I doubt it will be addressed much like excessive
> power. It is never addressed. Do it right. Don't worry about
> others. Have fun.
>
> The RTTY difference is that they come back to me and I moved, they
> can't find me, they waste more time sending w0mu 599 over and over and
> over again. That is not better in my book. If have not left. I push
> one other button to make a contact. Seems pretty similar to me.
>
> To each their own.
>
> W0MU
>
>
> On 7/3/2018 2:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
>> "How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions
>> that would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range
>> and stack the calls heard?"
>>
>> The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does
>> not even require the operator to be in the shack to complete the
>> QSO. All it takes is to start auto TX of your grid and then walk
>> away. As long as your call gets on the stack before your watchdog
>> times out (assuming you have not defeated it) then the rest is
>> automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had timed out.
>>
>> Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned
>> off TX Enable. Although I was still in the shack I had no
>> involvement in completing the QSO. I was just a spectator. That is
>> very different from the level of interaction required to complete a
>> QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.
>>
>> I have no opinion on the experience of the DXpedition operator. Never
>> been one and not likely to be one.
>>
>> 73,
>> Andy k3wyc
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

Administrator

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Doug,

I accept your gauntlet and will submit one final OT post despite my business partner’s attempt to shut it down.

To wit:

Many of us have vanishingly little τ, and from earlier posts it’s clear that K is irrational, so I propose reordering the terms as a Taylor series.

Wayne
N6KR

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Doug Millar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I was thinking about the differences between using the digital modes on HF and Knob and Dial modes, and I came up with this comparison.
>
> Basically ft8 and digital modes take more work on the setup end and are easy to operate and "knob and dial" radios have little setup and the most time is spent directing the operation. Both take the same amount of effort but are inverse.
> My limited math abilities express then relationship as-
>
> Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K
>
> Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K
>
> Where Dm= Digital Mode Kd=Knob and Dial radios S= Setup
> O= Operating τ= Time K= Total effort
>
>
> Revisions welcome----- Doug Millar K6JEY

Neil Zampella

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Wes,

you're taking that out of context. The structured messages allow for
redundancy if some of the original message is missing. The decoder can
take the sync symbols so that the system can understand what type of
message it is, it still needs the callsign and signal report.

More details can be found here:
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-1.9.1.html#PROTOCOLS
and here
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/FrankeTaylor_QEX_2016.pdf
which covers JT65, but which forms some of the basis for the other JT/FT
protocols.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 7/3/2018 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> In a message to this group back in February I wrote:
>
>    Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
>    up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
>    be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
>    parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
>    message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
>    and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
>    than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
>    lost and they contain no message information."
>
> Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that
> aren't there.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the
>> level of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic
>> radio’ instead of ‘ham radio’.”
>>
>> New contest category?
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>

Neil Zampella

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

.. and if you add JT-Alert to the mix, it can do the QRZ lookup for you ..

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 7/3/2018 5:32 PM, Carl Yaffey wrote:

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Grant Youngman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or what he/she does when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard
> As soon as I start an FT8 “iso”, I go to QRZ and look the person up.
>
>
> Carl Yaffey K8NU
> Recording studio.
> [hidden email]
> 614 268 6353, Columbus OH
> http://www.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.grassahol.com
> http://www.bluesswing.com
>
>

wayne burdick

Re: [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

Administrator

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Yeah, sorry. Math joke....

Wayne

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 7:21 PM, Robert Duncan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just in case there are others like me ....who did not know what a Taylor Series is :
>
> In mathematics, a Taylor series is a representation of a function as an infinite sum of terms
> that are calculated from the values of the function's derivatives at a single point.
>
> Source - Wikipedia
>
> Cheers
> Rob
> VK5ZIK
>
> On 4 July 2018 at 11:03, Wayne Burdick [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Doug,
>
> I accept your gauntlet and will submit one final OT post despite my business partner’s attempt to shut it down.
>
> To wit:
>
> Many of us have vanishingly little τ, and from earlier posts it’s clear that K is irrational, so I propose reordering the terms as a Taylor series.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> > On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Doug Millar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I was thinking about the differences between using the digital modes on HF and Knob and Dial modes, and I came up with this comparison.
> >
> > Basically ft8 and digital modes take more work on the setup end and are easy to operate and "knob and dial" radios have little setup and the most time is spent directing the operation. Both take the same amount of effort but are inverse.
> > My limited math abilities express then relationship as-
> >
> > Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K
> >
> > Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K
> >
> > Where Dm= Digital Mode Kd=Knob and Dial radios S= Setup
> > O= Operating τ= Time K= Total effort
> >
> >
> > Revisions welcome----- Doug Millar K6JEY

W5RDW

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by Carl Yaffey

Soon after I started FT8 in April, I like others wondered why I am sitting in
front of the 'tube" listening to the "whales" talk to each other (at least
thats what it sound like!). I quickly got bored, but since there really
wasn't any good DX floating around, I got addicted to it, just working for
WAS, etc.

One day in April, I had an Elmer tell me about /pskreporter/, to use in
seeing where I was being heard, etc. One evening when 20M was pretty wide
open to the east (AS and EU Russia) and west (Japan, China, VK/ZL), I
noticed hams were being reported all around Uzbekistan, one of the dozen
remaining entities I need. I looked up on a few websites that had active UK?
Uzbekistan hams on the air. There was UK9AA, active and on FT8!!!! I had
never heard Uzbekistan in many years and was excited maybe I could work him
on FT8.

Well, you can guess the rest of the story. I emailed him, Fedor, and we set
up a sked, eventually completing the qso on FT8 on 20 meters! With 70 watts
at that! Wow, that was easy!

Since then, I have worked over 75 countries w/o even trying on the new
digital mode! It's still not as exciting as grabbing a rare on on CW, but it
sure gives one another tool to work the rare one!

-----
Roger W5RDW
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Roger W5RDW

w2bvh

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

Basically FT8 adds tremendously to your receiver's sensitivity. The
tradeoff is that the QSOs are highly structured. Not much opportunity
for "How's the weather in Dogpatch?" But if you're willing to accept the
tradeoff you can make QSO's that would otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE. If
you're not willing to make the tradeoff the other modes are still there
for you, just maybe not with some OM's you'd like to work.

I worked an HA the other night using FT8 with no repeats needed, and I
didn't even see his signal on the waterfall. That's a Q that could not
have been made otherwise. I like it!

73,
--Lenny W2BVH

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Richard-6

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

Glad to see someone else enjoying the reality of FT8.

For all those who are running huge power because they think that’s what it takes to work FT8 DX — ruining the enjoyment of others in the process — consider this.

About a week ago, from my little central Florida station, running 75 watts into a hex beam up just 30 feet, I worked 25 Australian stations nearly in a row in the space of 90 minutes. All were over 9000 miles, 11 were over 10,000 miles, and 4 were over 11,000 to 12,000 miles. It was a BALL!

It was amazing but not all that unusual. The fun is catching big ones on light tackle, not shooting them in a barrel with a 12-gauge.

Cheers,
Richard - W4KBX

> But if you're willing to accept the tradeoff you can make QSO's that would otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE.
>
> I worked an HA the other night using FT8 with no repeats needed, and I didn't even see his signal on the waterfall. That's a Q that could not have been made otherwise. I like it!
>
> 73,
> --Lenny W2BVH
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: FT8: "Magic radio"?

In reply to this post by k6dgw

One of the very best things about Ham radio is how mindbogglingly huge the tent is ^_^

de KX2CW
Joan

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, said Piglet.
Shaka, when the walls fell, said Pooh.

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 14:11, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I can't resist.
>
> My accomplishments: I have a DXCC with 150+ LotW confirmed entities. I have over 100 entities on both digital and CW, less on voice. I have a triple play WAS. I have 5 contacts with KH1/KH7Z in their log, 2 CW, 2 FT8, and 1 SSB. (I'm missing RTTY.) I'm active in ARES/RACES, and like to rag chew, either on the local repeaters, or with PSK31. I'm trying to be a well rounded ham.
>
> I look at FT8 as another step in station automation.
>
> Back when I started, in the early 1960s, it was normal to have separate transmitters and receivers. Frequently people would have to manually switch the antenna between the two. Now we have full break in with CW. That's an advance in station automation.
>
> We used to keep logs on paper, now many of us keep them on a computer reducing the chance for error in details like frequency and time. FT8 carries it a step further by building a log entry which includes the call, grid and signal reports. That's an advance in station automation.
>
> We used to scan the bands by turning the big knob to locate other stations. Now we have spotting networks and panadapters. That's an advance in station automation.
>
> When one station wanted to call another, it had to transmit for a long enough time so the other station could find him. CQs were long for the same reason. Now we can change to his listening frequency and make a call. Many people use this technique for working DX pileups. FT8 makes it even more automatic by highlighting all messages that include your call sign. That's an advance in station automation.
>
> Where do I come down in all of this? I'm all over the place. In CW contests, I operate unassisted because I want to improve my CW skills, and getting the calls from a spot or decoder doesn't help me toward this goal. When working as part of a contest team, I'm happy using everything that is legal for our entry category. When trying to work rare DX, I'm quite happy running power. I just want to put out a clean signal and not be too obnoxious to other hams.
>
> I've heard a lot of comment about various contest rules being too automated or requiring facilities that are not available to everyone. For example contests that provide real-time score tracking. Here I think we should let 1000 flowers bloom. Sure, enjoy Straight Key Night (SKN) and bring out your boat anchor and old paper log book. But also have contests where contesters and an audience can keep track of the scores in real time. Some people can't do CW and sit SKN out. Others may not have the Internet connectivity needed for the real-time contest. In the old days, many hams did not have a Teletype machine for RTTY contests and had to forgo RTTY contacts.
>
> Do what you enjoy. Ham radio is a very big tent.
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
> 408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is *not* the
> www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly
>
>

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