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Field Day experience with K3

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John Kountz

Field Day experience with K3

Fellow K3 guys:
N6L, our 2AORG solar powered Field Day station was specifically configured
to demonstrate off-the-grid emergency opperations and thus provided an
excellent opportunity to put one of my two K3 (sn 3271 and 2215) to work
under less than the comforts of home.
Disquietingly, the K3 wasn't up to the task!
Let me explain: both the K3 and our second radio, a TenTec Eagle (Model
599AT sn 3051271430) were fed from the same 120 watt Power Film Panel /110
AmpHr GSM battery combination and operated at 100W output. In tandom
operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
With both radios in SSB mode and following the first K3 shut down, the K3s
operating environment was changed: different bands, different antennas,
reduced power output (to 10 watts) different operators and, finally
different solar /GSM battery combinations.
None remedied the problem.
Following from our experience, while the K3 and the Eagle offer excellent
operating characteristics, beware of the K3 under extenuating
circumstances; it's liable to let you down even at low output power levels.
The only potential solution may be found in a voltage boost device such as
the "N8XJK boost regulators"
http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Categories.bok?category=Boosters
Unfortunately, following the research necessary to uncover a source of
these devices Field Day was over.
Next year for sure!
73
John Kountz, WO1S/T6EE

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Gregg Marco W6IZT

Re: Field Day experience with K3

John:

That is odd, we ran a K3 from a 27 AH battery without any problems
whatsoever.

Gregg
W6IZT

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Kountz
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 1:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Field Day experience with K3

Fellow K3 guys:
N6L, our 2AORG solar powered Field Day station was specifically configured
to demonstrate off-the-grid emergency opperations and thus provided an
excellent opportunity to put one of my two K3 (sn 3271 and 2215) to work
under less than the comforts of home.
Disquietingly, the K3 wasn't up to the task!
Let me explain: both the K3 and our second radio, a TenTec Eagle (Model
599AT sn 3051271430) were fed from the same 120 watt Power Film Panel /110
AmpHr GSM battery combination and operated at 100W output. In tandom
operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
With both radios in SSB mode and following the first K3 shut down, the K3s
operating environment was changed: different bands, different antennas,
reduced power output (to 10 watts) different operators and, finally
different solar /GSM battery combinations.
None remedied the problem.
Following from our experience, while the K3 and the Eagle offer excellent
operating characteristics, beware of the K3 under extenuating circumstances;
it's liable to let you down even at low output power levels.
The only potential solution may be found in a voltage boost device such as
the "N8XJK boost regulators"
http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Categories.bok?category=Boosters
Unfortunately, following the research necessary to uncover a source of these
devices Field Day was over.
Next year for sure!
73
John Kountz, WO1S/T6EE

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by John Kountz

John

The fact that the voltage dropped below 10 volts DC causes me to wonder
about the either the adequacy of the wire size used (for the distance
involved) or the tightness of the connections to the battery. A 110 AH
GSM battery should not drop that much with even 2 100 watt radios
drawing current from it.

The fact that the K3 is designed to shut down when the voltage gets too
low is a good point in its design IMHO.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/28/2012 1:19 PM, John Kountz wrote:
> Disquietingly, the K3 wasn't up to the task!
> Let me explain: both the K3 and our second radio, a TenTec Eagle (Model
> 599AT sn 3051271430) were fed from the same 120 watt Power Film Panel /110
> AmpHr GSM battery combination and operated at 100W output. In tandom
> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
>

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Rick WA6NHC

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by John Kountz

I bet the TT got pretty dirty TX at low voltage.

Rick

Tiny iPhone keypad, sorry for typos

On Jun 28, 2012, at 10:19 AM, "John Kountz" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Fellow K3 guys:
> N6L, our 2AORG solar powered Field Day station was specifically configured
> to demonstrate off-the-grid emergency opperations and thus provided an
> excellent opportunity to put one of my two K3 (sn 3271 and 2215) to work
> under less than the comforts of home.
> Disquietingly, the K3 wasn't up to the task!
> Let me explain: both the K3 and our second radio, a TenTec Eagle (Model
> 599AT sn 3051271430) were fed from the same 120 watt Power Film Panel /110
> AmpHr GSM battery combination and operated at 100W output. In tandom
> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
> With both radios in SSB mode and following the first K3 shut down, the K3s
> operating environment was changed: different bands, different antennas,
> reduced power output (to 10 watts) different operators and, finally
> different solar /GSM battery combinations.
> None remedied the problem.
> Following from our experience, while the K3 and the Eagle offer excellent
> operating characteristics, beware of the K3 under extenuating
> circumstances; it's liable to let you down even at low output power levels.
> The only potential solution may be found in a voltage boost device such as
> the "N8XJK boost regulators"
> http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Categories.bok?category=Boosters
> Unfortunately, following the research necessary to uncover a source of
> these devices Field Day was over.
> Next year for sure!
> 73
> John Kountz, WO1S/T6EE
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by Gregg Marco W6IZT

We also ran my K3 at 100 watts connected to a 100 AH battery and solar
panel for a portion of Field day - the wire was #12 AWG about 5 feet
long and the connections were tight. Just for kicks, we checked the
voltage during a 100 watt steady keydown and found it to be over 12.3
volts after a half hour of operation.

73,
Donn W3FPR

On 6/28/2012 1:28 PM, Gregg Marco W6IZT wrote:
> John:
>
> That is odd, we ran a K3 from a 27 AH battery without any problems
> whatsoever.
>
>

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Peter Wollan-2

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by John Kountz

The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are on
the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine gauge,
or because the battery is defective.

The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to
see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.

You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't
needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.

Peter W0LLN

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... In tandom
> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
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Ken Wagner K3IU

Re: Field Day experience with K3

Page 8 of the Owners Manual... Specifications. 11V Minimum.
73.
Ken K3IU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 6/28/2012 2:07 PM, Peter Wollan wrote:

> The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
> supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are on
> the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine gauge,
> or because the battery is defective.
>
> The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
> radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
> down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to
> see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
> think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.
>
> You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
> radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't
> needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.
>
> Peter W0LLN
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> ... In tandom
>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

wayne burdick

Re: Field Day experience with K3

Administrator

In reply to this post by Peter Wollan-2

The K3/10 will run down to 9.0 V or so -- much lower than almost any
other desktop transceiver. Of course available power output will drop
at such low voltages.

The K3/100 needs 11 V to make 100 W on most bands (and higher on some
bands), but it should not shut down completely until you hit that 9.0
V level. The radio will automatically reduce power (or drop completely
out of QRO mode, bypassing the KPA3) as required.

If you notice any "interesting" behavior other than what I described,
let me know.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 28, 2012, at 11:07 AM, Peter Wollan wrote:

> The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
> supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are on
> the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine gauge,
> or because the battery is defective.
>
> The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
> radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
> down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to
> see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
> think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.
>
> You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
> radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't
> needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.
>
> Peter W0LLN
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> ... In tandom
>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips
>> (below 10
>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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David Gilbert

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by John Kountz

Let me make sure I understand this correctly. Your K3, which is spec'd
for a minimum operating voltage of 11 volts, is somehow "not up to the
task" because it doesn't work properly at voltages less than 10 volts.

I look at it differently. Your power source was clearly not up to the
task, and apparently neither was your system engineering if the power
source was not capable of providing the required power under the
circumstances at hand. At first glance, I'd be surprised if you were
getting anything even close to 120 watts out of that solar panel since
they are spec'd for full sunlight conditions that rarely hold up on a
continuous basis (been there, done that), so even a voltage booster
isn't going to function very long when you're draining enough current to
feed two rigs at 100 watts.

I think you need to rethink your strategy ....

Dave AB7E

On 6/28/2012 10:19 AM, John Kountz wrote:

Elecraft K3

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I would not want to be running an IMD sensitive mode like PSK with 11 V.

We came close at our location a few times between generator runs - 11.3 V or so and my outboard IMD meter still showed an acceptable signal - IMD -25db or less.

73 de Eric, KG6MZS

On Jun 28, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> The K3/100 needs 11 V to make 100 W on most bands (and higher on some
> bands), but it should not shut down completely until you hit that 9.0
> V level. The radio will automatically reduce power (or drop completely
> out of QRO mode, bypassing the KPA3) as required.
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wayne burdick

Re: Field Day experience with K3

Administrator

If your supply voltage is too low for a given application, I suggest
dropping TX power. In the case of PSK31, which works well at very low
S/N ratios, I suspect 50 W would have worked just as well as 100 W for
99% of contacts.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jun 28, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Elecraft K3 wrote:

> I would not want to be running an IMD sensitive mode like PSK with
> 11 V.
>
> We came close at our location a few times between generator runs -
> 11.3 V or so and my outboard IMD meter still showed an acceptable
> signal - IMD -25db or less.
>
> 73 de Eric, KG6MZS
>
> On Jun 28, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> The K3/100 needs 11 V to make 100 W on most bands (and higher on some
>> bands), but it should not shut down completely until you hit that 9.0
>> V level. The radio will automatically reduce power (or drop
>> completely
>> out of QRO mode, bypassing the KPA3) as required.

ve3dvy

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by John Kountz

K3 voltage specs are 11-15V and the Eagle spec is 13.8V +- 15%
that's about 11.7V- 15.9V. even though the Eagle would not shut
down you were definitely running below spec voltage and probably
causing some IMD if not excessive heat.

My other concern would be how low was the battery voltage getting.
AGM or any wet battery for that matter should not be used when the
voltage right at the battery posts drops to low. if it is you are
damaging the battery. and 10V is definitely too low. At my summer
cottage its solar charged battery only. when the cell voltage is
near 11.4V I still get 11V at the rig at 100W keydown as I use heavy
cable mostly 10AWG from the battery only 5ft away and a short 12 AWG
from the distribution to the rig. The battery also runs lighting
etc. Ive never had the K3 shutdown due to voltage faults. and my
rule is if it goes below 11.3V at the terminals it time to go QRT and
bed.

The K3 shutting down is just a safety measure to prevent damage and
dirty transmissions. Not a problem in my opinion, more a good
feature. I hope that the other rig wasn't splattering to much at
those lower voltages.

David Moes
VE3DVY

>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day experience with K3
> From: Peter Wollan <[hidden email]>
> To: John Kountz <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Date: Thursday, 28/06/2012 2:07 PM
>
> The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
> supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are on
> the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine gauge,
> or because the battery is defective.
>
> The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
> radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
> down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to
> see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
> think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.
>
> You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
> radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't
> needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.
>
> Peter W0LLN
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> ... In tandom
>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below
>> 10
>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

alorona

Re: Field Day experience with K3

It seems to me that the solution is to improve the voltage regulation of your
power system, rather than implicate this radio or that one for it's inability to
follow the wide voltage swings you are experiencing. Even if Brand X "works"
under such conditions, why would you want to, for the various reasons already
stated? Just because my car still happens to run with 10% water in the gasoline,
is it a good idea to continue to do so?

Yes, it might have been an inconvenience for your Field Day 2012, but I hope for
2013 you'll have a better solution. The suggestion to reduce K3 power by 2 dB
(1/3 of an S-unit) to 63 W is a good one which I have followed for 15 years, and
could well solve all of your problems.

Additionally, I have used a boost regulator after the N8XJK design for almost
ten years and now consider it indispensable. I made 300 contacts on one 35 A-h
battery and a few more on another battery. That's pretty good efficiency.

Regards,

Al W6LX

> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> ... In tandom
>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below
>> 10
>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
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vk4tux

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by Peter Wollan-2

Why dont you FD guys take a 2v battery and series it with the 6 cell
12.8v LA battery that you usually use, matching the ah ratings.

I use a 7 X 2v lead-acid cell backup battery system in my 15.2v power
supply system.
In a power failure I have 14.6v available.

On 28/06/2012 18:07, Peter Wollan wrote:

> The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
> supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are on
> the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine gauge,
> or because the battery is defective.
>
> The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
> radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
> down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to
> see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
> think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.
>
> You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
> radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't
> needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.
>
> Peter W0LLN
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> ... In tandom
>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below 10
>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

mzilmer

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by Peter Wollan-2

You might want to get a battery booster. Here is one http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Detail.bok?no=10.

I can recommend that one. Had one for a couple years and use it to boost to 14.5VDC from whatever voltage any time of day from a solar-charged battery. I think my K3 likes that 14.5V!

Matt Zilmer
Consultant - Product Management Dept.
Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
Tel: (909) 394-6052
Cell: (909) 730-6552
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peter Wollan
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:07 AM
To: John Kountz
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day experience with K3

The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are on the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine gauge, or because the battery is defective.

The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.

You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.

Peter W0LLN

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... In tandom
> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips (below
>10
> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
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Jack Brindle

Re: Field Day experience with K3

Guys, I think the point is this: There is a real emergency. You are
off someplace with a big battery and have been operating for quite
some time, enough for the battery to have gone down. You have another
message to get through. In this situation, perhaps you should be
running CW at a lower power, but still, the situation could be very
real.

Having a battery booster could be very helpful, and perhaps one should
be added to the ham's arsenal. On the other hand, running 100 watts on
battery is probably not a good idea either. Having been in emergency
situations where you do not know when operations will end, you do
everything you can to conserver your resources. That means lowering
the TX power as much as possible. Even still, Murphy says that at some
point when the battery is running out, someone will hand you an
emergency message to get through. How do you handle it? As I noted,
I'd then lower the power and grab the CW key...

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Jun 28, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Matthew Zilmer wrote:

> You might want to get a battery booster. Here is one http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Detail.bok?no=10
> .
>
> I can recommend that one. Had one for a couple years and use it to
> boost to 14.5VDC from whatever voltage any time of day from a solar-
> charged battery. I think my K3 likes that 14.5V!
>
> Matt Zilmer
> Consultant - Product Management Dept.
> Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
> Tel: (909) 394-6052
> Cell: (909) 730-6552
> Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]
> ] On Behalf Of Peter Wollan
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:07 AM
> To: John Kountz
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day experience with K3
>
> The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
> supply. It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are
> on the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine
> gauge, or because the battery is defective.
>
> The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
> radios. The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts; the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
> down a lot lower, I think 8 volts. I looked at the K3 documents to
> see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
> think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.
>
> You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
> radio, and not letting it run down too far. A voltage booster isn't
> needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.
>
> Peter W0LLN
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> ... In tandom
>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips
>> (below
>> 10
>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
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Tony Estep

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:47 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> ...Your power source was clearly not up to the
> task, and apparently neither was your system engineering

----------
The original post makes it clear that their field day setup wasn't
adequate. That's part of the purpose of field day: to illustrate how
a little thought, planning and testing before the event goes a long way.
Well, there's always next year.

Tony KT0NY

--
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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David Gilbert

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by mzilmer

A battery booster doesn't do much good very long if you're drawing more
current from the battery than your solar cell is putting into it like
WO1S was. A dead battery just gets deader quicker.

Dave AB7E

On 6/28/2012 2:54 PM, Matthew Zilmer wrote:

> You might want to get a battery booster. Here is one http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Detail.bok?no=10.
>
> I can recommend that one. Had one for a couple years and use it to boost to 14.5VDC from whatever voltage any time of day from a solar-charged battery. I think my K3 likes that 14.5V!
>
> Matt Zilmer
> Consultant - Product Management Dept.
> Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
> Tel: (909) 394-6052
> Cell: (909) 730-6552
> Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Field Day experience with K3

Or if the connections to the battery are not tight - and that is what I
suspect based on the symptoms..

If the voltage was dropping below 11 volts, it would indicate either a
high resistance connection to the battery or a defective battery.

The Ten-Tec may have kept on operating, but that is not necessarily a
benefit if it created a high IMD situation.

100 watts on a battery supply will not last forever - our FD solar
charged battery operation lasted only 1 hour at the 100 watt level.

73,
Don W3FPR.
On 6/29/2012 12:06 AM, David Gilbert wrote:

>
> A battery booster doesn't do much good very long if you're drawing more
> current from the battery than your solar cell is putting into it like
> WO1S was. A dead battery just gets deader quicker.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> On 6/28/2012 2:54 PM, Matthew Zilmer wrote:
>> You might want to get a battery booster. Here is one http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Detail.bok?no=10.
>>
>> I can recommend that one. Had one for a couple years and use it to boost to 14.5VDC from whatever voltage any time of day from a solar-charged battery. I think my K3 likes that 14.5V!
>>
>> Matt Zilmer
>> Consultant - Product Management Dept.
>> Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
>> Tel: (909) 394-6052
>> Cell: (909) 730-6552
>> Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere
>>
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Edward R Cole

Re: Field Day experience with K3

In reply to this post by John Kountz

Look at energy instead of power. You have a 120AH solar panel to a
110AH battery. What is your load? Two 100w transmitters running 12v
at 17a dc load (204w load to the battery for each radio). Your Tx/Rx
duty cycle is probably = 30% during FD (are you calling CQ FD CQ FD a
lot?). So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
totally discharged the 110AH battery if were not being charged by the
solar panel. With solar charging at 120AH you still have a negative
energy equation (so maybe it takes a couple hours operation to
discharge the battery).

It sounds as only one battery was used for two radios. A better
solution would be separate batteries very close to the radios. Still
the 120AH solar charging system is undersized to maintain the
batteries very long.

So lower RF power to 50w (as has been suggested) to lower dc
load. Also increase dc wiring size to lower ohmic losses. Battery
boosters will give a little more voltage at the end of battery life,
but at the expense of battery current (no free lunch).

I ran 20w psk-31 one FD using a single 60w solar panel and a 100AH
diehard marine battery and was able to run about 6-hours. Of course
psk-31 is keydown in transmit. The radio was a FT-847 so I do not
know its efficiency running at 20w RF. The Rx and digital ckts
probably consumed 3-4 amps continuously, and transmitter probably 50w
at 50% efficiency for another 4 amps. So say it was 7 amps in
transmit (7x12= 84w). I did not call CQ extensively but instead
searched and pounced so most of the time was Rx so Tx/Rx duty cycle
was probably 10%. Overall the load was probably 48w per hour so the
60w solar panel should hold the battery charge long-term. Things
rarely run exactly according to theory.

In my former job I maintained two remote repeater sites that were run
on solar-charged batteries in summer and on alkaline batteries in
winter (system auto-switched when solar battery voltage dropped to
10.5v). The solar system was two 60w solar panels feeding two 100AH
deep-cycle batteries; winter was a 10,800 AH air-activated alkaline
battery bank (90 1.5v cells in 10cell banks). Each 1.5v battery was
rated at 1200AH. The site was operated in a stby status 99% of the
time with only the UHF control radios activated full-time. We got
three years life between battery replacements (helicopter only
access). With new batteries the site had a 30-day operational
status. Repeaters were 30w and there were more than one at each site.

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
======================================
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