Field Day experience with K3

[David Cutter]

Hello Jack

Thankfully, I have not been in a real emergency, but one of my prime
directives would be to first establish a stable and exclusive channel,
OK, it might have to change from time to time, but not like a contest
situation.  Having established a channel, one of the power-lean digital
modes would be the choice for me: I keep hearing stories of working
across the world on a dead band with half a noodlewatt.  The incoming
data is captured on a power-lean laptop, palmtop, Iphone unambiguously
in plain language and forwarded or printed off if you must with a small
printer.

I declare I haven't done any of this, it's just my firtile imagination -
but I'd like to.

David
GUNA


On 28/06/2012 22:43, Jack Brindle wrote:

> Guys, I think the point is this: There is a real emergency. You are
> off someplace with a big battery and have been operating for quite
> some time, enough for the battery to have gone down. You have another
> message to get through. In this situation, perhaps you should be
> running CW at a lower power, but still, the situation could be very
> real.
>
> Having a battery booster could be very helpful, and perhaps one should
> be added to the ham's arsenal. On the other hand, running 100 watts on
> battery is probably not a good idea either. Having been in emergency
> situations where you do not know when operations will end, you do
> everything you can to conserver your resources. That means lowering
> the TX power as much as possible. Even still, Murphy says that at some
> point when the battery is running out, someone will hand you an
> emergency message to get through. How do you handle it? As I noted,
> I'd then lower the power and grab the CW key...
>
> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2012, at 2:54 PM, Matthew Zilmer wrote:
>
>> You might want to get a battery booster.  Here is one http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Detail.bok?no=10
>> .
>>
>> I can recommend that one.  Had one for a couple years and use it to
>> boost to 14.5VDC from whatever voltage any time of day from a solar-
>> charged battery.  I think my K3 likes that 14.5V!
>>
>> Matt Zilmer
>> Consultant - Product Management Dept.
>> Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
>> Tel: [phone]
>> Cell: [phone]
>> Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]
>> ] On Behalf Of Peter Wollan
>> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:07 AM
>> To: John Kountz
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day experience with K3
>>
>> The problem here isn't the battery AH capacity, but the voltage
>> supply.  It could be dropping below 10 vdc because both radios are
>> on the same supply, or because the power supply wires are too fine
>> gauge, or because the battery is defective.
>>
>> The K3 is less robust to supply voltage than the other Elecraft
>> radios.  The K2 is rated for 10-15 volts;  the K1, KX1, and KX3 go
>> down a lot lower, I think 8 volts.  I looked at the K3 documents to
>> see what minimum voltage it requires, and I couldn't find it -- I
>> think it's something like 11, but it may be 11.5 or even 12.
>>
>> You'd probably do fine just by using a separate battery for each
>> radio, and not letting it run down too far.  A voltage booster isn't
>> needed, as lots of operators all over the world have demonstrated.
>>
>>       Peter W0LLN
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:19 PM, John Kountz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> ...  In tandom
>>> operation, the Eagle was not affected by momentary voltage dips
>>> (below
>>> 10
>>> VDC) whereas the K3 would shut down.
>> ______________________________________________________________
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[Matt Zilmer]

I agree.  In this case (pulling lots of current with a respectable
duty cycle), the booster only gives you more operating time in the
margin when the K3's DC input sees less than 11V.  I typically run
this AGM battery as low as 10V.  And it takes longer to recharge using
the solar PV source.

I'm discovering that this battery is about flat now.  It's 12 years
old and won't hold a charge so well any more.  Time for one of those
Optima deep cycle 140AH Yellow Tops!

73,
matt



On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:06:58 -0700, you wrote:

>
>
>A battery booster doesn't do much good very long if you're drawing more
>current from the battery than your solar cell is putting into it like
>WO1S was.  A dead battery just gets deader quicker.
>
>Dave   AB7E
>
>
>On 6/28/2012 2:54 PM, Matthew Zilmer wrote:
>> You might want to get a battery booster.  Here is one http://stores.tgelectronics.org/Detail.bok?no=10.
>>
>> I can recommend that one.  Had one for a couple years and use it to boost to 14.5VDC from whatever voltage any time of day from a solar-charged battery.  I think my K3 likes that 14.5V!
>>
>> Matt Zilmer
>> Consultant - Product Management Dept.
>> Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
>> Tel: [phone]
>> Cell: [phone]
>> Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere
>>
>
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[Dave-7]

 > lot?).  So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
 > totally discharged the 110AH battery

This isn't right. The capacity of the battery in watts is 110x12 or
about 1320WHr. If the load is 122w/hr the battery should be totally
exhausted after about 11 hours.

Of course you should never intentionally fully discharge a battery so
a reasonable time of operation on battery alone would be about 7 hours.

The solar panel, if in full sun and at max efficiency would generate
~120w. This is barely enough to keep up with both transmitters.
Nothing left over to recharge the batteries.


73 de dave
ab9ca/4





On 6/29/12 3:05 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:

> Look at energy instead of power.  You have a 120AH solar panel to a
> 110AH battery.  What is your load?  Two 100w transmitters running 12v
> at 17a dc load (204w load to the battery for each radio).  Your Tx/Rx
> duty cycle is probably = 30% during FD (are you calling CQ FD CQ FD a
> lot?).  So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
> totally discharged the 110AH battery if were not being charged by the
> solar panel.  With solar charging at 120AH you still have a negative
> energy equation (so maybe it takes a couple hours operation to
> discharge the battery).
>
> It sounds as only one battery was used for two radios.  A better
> solution would be separate batteries very close to the radios.  Still
> the 120AH solar charging system is undersized to maintain the
> batteries very long.
>
> So lower RF power to 50w (as has been suggested) to lower dc
> load.  Also increase dc wiring size to lower ohmic losses.  Battery
> boosters will give a little more voltage at the end of battery life,
> but at the expense of battery current (no free lunch).
>
> I ran 20w psk-31 one FD using a single 60w solar panel and a 100AH
> diehard marine battery and was able to run about 6-hours.  Of course
> psk-31 is keydown in transmit.  The radio was a FT-847 so I do not
> know its efficiency running at 20w RF.  The Rx and digital ckts
> probably consumed 3-4 amps continuously, and transmitter probably 50w
> at 50% efficiency for another 4 amps.  So say it was 7 amps in
> transmit (7x12= 84w).  I did not call CQ extensively but instead
> searched and pounced so most of the time was Rx so Tx/Rx duty cycle
> was probably 10%.  Overall the load was probably 48w per hour so the
> 60w solar panel should hold the battery charge long-term.  Things
> rarely run exactly according to theory.
>
> In my former job I maintained two remote repeater sites that were run
> on solar-charged batteries in summer and on alkaline batteries in
> winter (system auto-switched when solar battery voltage dropped to
> 10.5v).  The solar system was two 60w solar panels feeding two 100AH
> deep-cycle batteries; winter was a 10,800 AH air-activated alkaline
> battery bank (90 1.5v cells in 10cell banks).  Each 1.5v battery was
> rated at 1200AH.  The site was operated in a stby status 99% of the
> time with only the UHF control radios activated full-time.  We got
> three years life between battery replacements (helicopter only
> access).  With new batteries the site had a 30-day operational
> status.  Repeaters were 30w and there were more than one at each site.
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> "Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
> ======================================
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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[Guy, K2AV]

Some batteries have nowhere near their label AH capacity to start with.
 Others go bad with no use, effectively on the shelf.  In come cases when
opened, it is clear that the battery has been deliberately "short-sheeted"
not to be confused with "shorted out".  Use of filler below the cells, etc.
 Upon purchase, a cell should be fully charged and then checked for
discharge curve.  Defective cells can then be returned as defective, but
"new" with sales slip and no arguments.

Regretfully, I no longer buy batteries over the internet.  I get them
locally where they can be easily exchanged.  I buy their "house
brand".  One local
outlet has specifically ended business with a few well-known  manufacturers
and has no hesitation talking about it. Over a period of time, about one in
four or five is actually defective if you count AH well below label.   The
local guys also always take my old battery for recycle without an argument.
 I never have to go to collection points on the "special days" when local
waste management accepts certain hazardous waste.  Keeps local merchants in
business.

With this procedure, if later the battery diminishes, I know it's old age
or something I did.

73, Guy.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 3:28 PM, dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  > lot?).  So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
>  > totally discharged the 110AH battery
>
> This isn't right. The capacity of the battery in watts is 110x12 or
> about 1320WHr. If the load is 122w/hr the battery should be totally
> exhausted after about 11 hours.
>
> Of course you should never intentionally fully discharge a battery so
> a reasonable time of operation on battery alone would be about 7 hours.
>
> The solar panel, if in full sun and at max efficiency would generate
> ~120w. This is barely enough to keep up with both transmitters.
> Nothing left over to recharge the batteries.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/29/12 3:05 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
> > Look at energy instead of power.  You have a 120AH solar panel to a
> > 110AH battery.  What is your load?  Two 100w transmitters running 12v
> > at 17a dc load (204w load to the battery for each radio).  Your Tx/Rx
> > duty cycle is probably = 30% during FD (are you calling CQ FD CQ FD a
> > lot?).  So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
> > totally discharged the 110AH battery if were not being charged by the
> > solar panel.  With solar charging at 120AH you still have a negative
> > energy equation (so maybe it takes a couple hours operation to
> > discharge the battery).
> >
> > It sounds as only one battery was used for two radios.  A better
> > solution would be separate batteries very close to the radios.  Still
> > the 120AH solar charging system is undersized to maintain the
> > batteries very long.
> >
> > So lower RF power to 50w (as has been suggested) to lower dc
> > load.  Also increase dc wiring size to lower ohmic losses.  Battery
> > boosters will give a little more voltage at the end of battery life,
> > but at the expense of battery current (no free lunch).
> >
> > I ran 20w psk-31 one FD using a single 60w solar panel and a 100AH
> > diehard marine battery and was able to run about 6-hours.  Of course
> > psk-31 is keydown in transmit.  The radio was a FT-847 so I do not
> > know its efficiency running at 20w RF.  The Rx and digital ckts
> > probably consumed 3-4 amps continuously, and transmitter probably 50w
> > at 50% efficiency for another 4 amps.  So say it was 7 amps in
> > transmit (7x12= 84w).  I did not call CQ extensively but instead
> > searched and pounced so most of the time was Rx so Tx/Rx duty cycle
> > was probably 10%.  Overall the load was probably 48w per hour so the
> > 60w solar panel should hold the battery charge long-term.  Things
> > rarely run exactly according to theory.
> >
> > In my former job I maintained two remote repeater sites that were run
> > on solar-charged batteries in summer and on alkaline batteries in
> > winter (system auto-switched when solar battery voltage dropped to
> > 10.5v).  The solar system was two 60w solar panels feeding two 100AH
> > deep-cycle batteries; winter was a 10,800 AH air-activated alkaline
> > battery bank (90 1.5v cells in 10cell banks).  Each 1.5v battery was
> > rated at 1200AH.  The site was operated in a stby status 99% of the
> > time with only the UHF control radios activated full-time.  We got
> > three years life between battery replacements (helicopter only
> > access).  With new batteries the site had a 30-day operational
> > status.  Repeaters were 30w and there were more than one at each site.
> >
> >
> > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> > ======================================
> > BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
> > EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
> > DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> > "Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
> > ======================================
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
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[Phil Hystad-3]

Slight additional correction...

Energy is computed as the integral of power over time.  The power itself from a battery that is itself not under recharge is constantly changing over time even with fixed load.  Thus, the actual energy computed is slightly less then the value you get with power times hours since power is not constant.

PEH's iPad

On Jun 29, 2012, at 12:28 PM, dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> lot?).  So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
>> totally discharged the 110AH battery
>
> This isn't right. The capacity of the battery in watts is 110x12 or
> about 1320WHr. If the load is 122w/hr the battery should be totally
> exhausted after about 11 hours.
>
> Of course you should never intentionally fully discharge a battery so
> a reasonable time of operation on battery alone would be about 7 hours.
>
> The solar panel, if in full sun and at max efficiency would generate
> ~120w. This is barely enough to keep up with both transmitters.
> Nothing left over to recharge the batteries.
>
>
> 73 de dave
> ab9ca/4
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/29/12 3:05 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
>> Look at energy instead of power.  You have a 120AH solar panel to a
>> 110AH battery.  What is your load?  Two 100w transmitters running 12v
>> at 17a dc load (204w load to the battery for each radio).  Your Tx/Rx
>> duty cycle is probably = 30% during FD (are you calling CQ FD CQ FD a
>> lot?).  So the load is 204w x2 x 0.30 = 122w which after an hour has
>> totally discharged the 110AH battery if were not being charged by the
>> solar panel.  With solar charging at 120AH you still have a negative
>> energy equation (so maybe it takes a couple hours operation to
>> discharge the battery).
>>
>> It sounds as only one battery was used for two radios.  A better
>> solution would be separate batteries very close to the radios.  Still
>> the 120AH solar charging system is undersized to maintain the
>> batteries very long.
>>
>> So lower RF power to 50w (as has been suggested) to lower dc
>> load.  Also increase dc wiring size to lower ohmic losses.  Battery
>> boosters will give a little more voltage at the end of battery life,
>> but at the expense of battery current (no free lunch).
>>
>> I ran 20w psk-31 one FD using a single 60w solar panel and a 100AH
>> diehard marine battery and was able to run about 6-hours.  Of course
>> psk-31 is keydown in transmit.  The radio was a FT-847 so I do not
>> know its efficiency running at 20w RF.  The Rx and digital ckts
>> probably consumed 3-4 amps continuously, and transmitter probably 50w
>> at 50% efficiency for another 4 amps.  So say it was 7 amps in
>> transmit (7x12= 84w).  I did not call CQ extensively but instead
>> searched and pounced so most of the time was Rx so Tx/Rx duty cycle
>> was probably 10%.  Overall the load was probably 48w per hour so the
>> 60w solar panel should hold the battery charge long-term.  Things
>> rarely run exactly according to theory.
>>
>> In my former job I maintained two remote repeater sites that were run
>> on solar-charged batteries in summer and on alkaline batteries in
>> winter (system auto-switched when solar battery voltage dropped to
>> 10.5v).  The solar system was two 60w solar panels feeding two 100AH
>> deep-cycle batteries; winter was a 10,800 AH air-activated alkaline
>> battery bank (90 1.5v cells in 10cell banks).  Each 1.5v battery was
>> rated at 1200AH.  The site was operated in a stby status 99% of the
>> time with only the UHF control radios activated full-time.  We got
>> three years life between battery replacements (helicopter only
>> access).  With new batteries the site had a 30-day operational
>> status.  Repeaters were 30w and there were more than one at each site.
>>
>>
>> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
>> ======================================
>> BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
>> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
>> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
>> "Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
>> ======================================
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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[Edward R Cole]

Dave, ab9ca/4 wrote:

This isn't right. The capacity of the battery in watts is 110x12 or
about 1320WHr. If the load is 122w/hr the battery should be totally
exhausted after about 11 hours.
----------
yep, I confused AH with WH, so that does not explain the problems the
original writer had.
Another way to analyze would be using just the current load:  2x17a =
34a x 30% = 10.2amp

Then 110 A-H/10.2 A = 10.8 hours (theoretically)

But battery discharge curves display the actual battery operating
voltage one can expect to see.  so one would probably reach an
unworkable voltage sooner than 10.8 hours.  The only good analysis
would be if you have the discharge curve for the battery.  These
usually assume a <10% load (e.g. < 11 A).  Using the discharge curve
you can predict battery life under load.

I used a 30% duty cycle which provides the time weighting factor
(integration factor). You can argue that in FD operations the duty
cycle could be something other than 30%.  I assumed that one does a
lot more calling in FD than normal assumed Tx/Rx ratios that
commercial radio industry uses (10%).

In my professional observations of radio using backup battery power
the useful life never approaches the theoretical expected battery
life.  Most of the time the system becomes unusable in about half the
time expected from a battery bank.  This is on a properly floated
battery bank with periodic equalization (hams normally do not do this).

Theoreticals are only a good starting point as they assume fully
charged new batteries (rarely is either true).

The 120AH solar charging system "theoretically" provides 10A at 12V
which would lead one to believe it would supply the operating load of
two radios.  I rarely have seen solar panels output their full rated
power.  In the brightest sun it is normally running about 80% of label ratings.

So there was something else occurring to cause the voltage to sag to
10v in the original posters operation.






73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
======================================
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[Fred Townsend]

Thanks Ed for unraveling some of the misunderstanding of solar cells and
batteries. It is pure folly to think that you can apply faulty math to
highly optimistic and sometimes politicized ratings while totally ignoring
system efficiencies and come to any meaningful conclusion.
The standard way of rating audio power was to measure the RMS power at say
3% distortion. When marketing became all about watts the advertising folks
took over and the manufacturers started using peak to peak watts and other
wind at your back measuring systems. The same is true of solar cells where
rebates, based upon power rating and other government intervention, have
made a joke out of rating systems.
Solar rating problems begin with the sun. It's always moving and therefore
the angle of incidence is always changing. This immensely effects efficiency
of lattice structures. The sun and Ohmic losses cause heating which further
reduces efficiency. The result of all loses is a small fraction of rated
values.
Let me illustrate with some real test data.  For a 12V/5W rated
(approximately 200 square inches) panel with the American manufacturer's
recommended controller I was able to charge a gel cell at just over 400ma
(13.5v @ 402ma = 5.427W).  That's slightly over the manufacture's rating. To
obtain these values an ammeter was used to adjust the tilt and pan of the
array for maximum. Current was continuously monitored and the time measured
until the value halved (201ma). The controller maintained the 13.5v charging
voltage so the power was halved as well.
Sounds great but here is the rub. The time to half power averaged 15 minutes
and then only between 10am and 2pm. If the array was laid flat on the ground
and not oriented toward the sun I averaged less than 10 watt hours per day
in June in Southern California high desert. That wouldn't run one K3/10 very
long.

73, Fred, AE6QL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward R. Cole
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 12:36 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day experience with K3

Dave, ab9ca/4 wrote:

This isn't right. The capacity of the battery in watts is 110x12 or about
1320WHr. If the load is 122w/hr the battery should be totally exhausted
after about 11 hours.
----------
yep, I confused AH with WH, so that does not explain the problems the
original writer had.
Another way to analyze would be using just the current load:  2x17a = 34a x
30% = 10.2amp

Then 110 A-H/10.2 A = 10.8 hours (theoretically)

But battery discharge curves display the actual battery operating voltage
one can expect to see.  so one would probably reach an unworkable voltage
sooner than 10.8 hours.  The only good analysis would be if you have the
discharge curve for the battery.  These usually assume a <10% load (e.g. <
11 A).  Using the discharge curve you can predict battery life under load.

I used a 30% duty cycle which provides the time weighting factor
(integration factor). You can argue that in FD operations the duty cycle
could be something other than 30%.  I assumed that one does a lot more
calling in FD than normal assumed Tx/Rx ratios that commercial radio
industry uses (10%).

In my professional observations of radio using backup battery power the
useful life never approaches the theoretical expected battery life.  Most of
the time the system becomes unusable in about half the time expected from a
battery bank.  This is on a properly floated battery bank with periodic
equalization (hams normally do not do this).

Theoreticals are only a good starting point as they assume fully charged new
batteries (rarely is either true).

The 120AH solar charging system "theoretically" provides 10A at 12V which
would lead one to believe it would supply the operating load of two radios.
I rarely have seen solar panels output their full rated power.  In the
brightest sun it is normally running about 80% of label ratings.

So there was something else occurring to cause the voltage to sag to 10v in
the original posters operation.






73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
======================================
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[vk4tux]

Just a bit of feedback on keyboards, it seems simpler is better.

I purchased a flash new Dell SK-8135   keyboard and it it would not work.
Dismayed I remembered getting my son a simple rubberised (rollup)
keyboard some time back .
This is real tough and would be good for field use and waterproof.

Well I swapped my son and the rubberised usb keyboard works great, and
he is real happy with the Dell.
A list of known types that work or dont work may be a good idea, perhaps
on the elecraft website?

Adrian ... vk4tux
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[vk4tux]

I played a bit with the data today, RTTY, and also tried it out on cw with
the rubber keyboard.
Took a couple of vids and posted for those that may wish to look..
Links below;

http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/?action=view&current=P3SVGA_
data.mp4

http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/?action=view&current=P3SVGA_
datcw_V73NSK.mp4

Be sure to click the bottom right side fullscreen tag in the vid to see the
detail better thx.

Adrian ... vk4tux

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012 4:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA data keyboard.

Just a bit of feedback on keyboards, it seems simpler is better.

I purchased a flash new Dell SK-8135   keyboard and it it would not work.
Dismayed I remembered getting my son a simple rubberised (rollup) keyboard
some time back .
This is real tough and would be good for field use and waterproof.

Well I swapped my son and the rubberised usb keyboard works great, and he is
real happy with the Dell.
A list of known types that work or dont work may be a good idea, perhaps on
the elecraft website?

Adrian ... vk4tux
______________________________________________________________
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[vk4tux]

Trying the wrapper trick;

I played a bit with the data today, RTTY, and also tried it out on cw with
the rubber keyboard.
Took a couple of vids and posted for those that may wish to look..
Links below;

<http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/?action=view&current=P3SVGA
_data.mp4>

<http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/?action=view&current=P3SVGA
_datcw_V73NSK.mp4>

Be sure to click the bottom right side fullscreen tag in the vid to see the
detail better thx.

Adrian ... vk4tux

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012 4:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA data keyboard.

Just a bit of feedback on keyboards, it seems simpler is better.

I purchased a flash new Dell SK-8135   keyboard and it it would not work.
Dismayed I remembered getting my son a simple rubberised (rollup) keyboard
some time back .
This is real tough and would be good for field use and waterproof.

Well I swapped my son and the rubberised usb keyboard works great, and he is
real happy with the Dell.
A list of known types that work or dont work may be a good idea, perhaps on
the elecraft website?

Adrian ... vk4tux
______________________________________________________________
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[vk4tux]

Just try here and you can see the two video's etc;

http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/

-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012 6:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA data keyboard.


Trying the wrapper trick;

I played a bit with the data today, RTTY, and also tried it out on cw with
the rubber keyboard.
Took a couple of vids and posted for those that may wish to look..
Links below;

<http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/?action=view&current=P3SVGA
_data.mp4>

<http://s1163.photobucket.com/albums/q552/vk4tux/?action=view&current=P3SVGA
_datcw_V73NSK.mp4>

Be sure to click the bottom right side fullscreen tag in the vid to see the
detail better thx.

Adrian ... vk4tux

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012 4:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA data keyboard.

Just a bit of feedback on keyboards, it seems simpler is better.

I purchased a flash new Dell SK-8135   keyboard and it it would not work.
Dismayed I remembered getting my son a simple rubberised (rollup) keyboard
some time back .
This is real tough and would be good for field use and waterproof.

Well I swapped my son and the rubberised usb keyboard works great, and he is
real happy with the Dell.
A list of known types that work or dont work may be a good idea, perhaps on
the elecraft website?

Adrian ... vk4tux
______________________________________________________________
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[vk4tux]

For those interested in the rubber keyboard, this is exactly the same as
mine on USA eBay site, and DOES work with the P3 SVGA data usb input.;

Lookup  Item number: 160745894556

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012 4:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA data keyboard.

Just a bit of feedback on keyboards, it seems simpler is better.

I purchased a flash new Dell SK-8135   keyboard and it it would not work.
Dismayed I remembered getting my son a simple rubberised (rollup) keyboard
some time back .
This is real tough and would be good for field use and waterproof.

Well I swapped my son and the rubberised usb keyboard works great, and he is
real happy with the Dell.
A list of known types that work or dont work may be a good idea, perhaps on
the elecraft website?

Adrian ... vk4tux
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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[vk4tux]

Glad it was of help to someone Mike. Did you take a look at the video's ?
A bit amateur I know , but holding a camera whilst the other hand on the
keyboard will do that.
I guess it gives an idea of the setup to those curious.
I like the fact you can set colour code for the tx & Rx etc. I should be on
20m today, may catch you on-air.

Cheers

Adrian ... vk4tux

-----Original Message-----
From: K2MK [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, 28 July 2012 10:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] P3 SVGA data keyboard.

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for posting the eBay item number and letting us know this keyboard
works for the SVGA card input. I purchased it and my total cost including
shipping was only $8.04.  At that price it's worth having if nothing more
than as a backup keyboard for when I spill coffee on my regular keyboard.

73,
Mike K2MK



Sat, 28 Jul 2012 01:55:10 -0700

For those interested in the rubber keyboard, this is exactly the same as
mine on USA eBay site, and DOES work with the P3 SVGA data usb input.;

Lookup  Item number: 160745894556


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