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Fire in the house li-ion

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William Lagerberg-2

Fire in the house li-ion

Guys,

I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.

So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it and it was ok ( with 10% loading current)
Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a fire.
We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark smoke.

My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff

My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart today as far as is possible.
I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s

My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I don’t know how it looks at the inside.

So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It did cost me our house in 1 hour.

http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand>

Regards William Pe1bsb
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

You have my sympathies for your loss, I can only imagine what you are going through.I'm not sure if you're a praying man or not but I'll add you to my prayer list.

Fire is scary and moves very fast in a home. We had a small fire caused by a defectivelamp in my wife's sewing room; in less than five minutes it did thousands in damage.
I'm a bit Leary of Lithium batteries it's a lot of energy packed into a small area.
Again you have my sympathies, I'll be praying for you and yours.

From: William Lagerberg <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 5:32 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion

Guys,

I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.

So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it and it was ok ( with 10% loading current)
Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a fire.
We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark smoke.

My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff

My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart today as far as is possible.
I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s

My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I don’t know how it looks at the inside.

So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It did cost me our house in 1 hour.

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wayne burdick

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

Administrator

In reply to this post by William Lagerberg-2

So sorry to hear about this, William! Best of luck recovering from this tragedy.

I hope you’re able to salvage some of your ham gear. If you’re stuck without a rig, let me know. We might have a refurbished KX2 or KX3 we could loan you.

Perhaps this would be good time to remind everyone to be careful with Li-ion batteries for all products. For example, see page 2 of the KXBT2 battery pack instructions:

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740288%20KXBC2%20and%20KXBT2%20Instructions,%20rev%20A5.pdf

Perhaps the most important line in this document is: "Do not leave the battery unattended during charging. Charge only on a nonflammable surface.

On behalf of Elecraft, 73,

Wayne
N6KR

> On May 17, 2017, at 2:29 PM, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.
>
> So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it and it was ok ( with 10% loading current)
> Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a fire.
> We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark smoke.
>
> My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
>
> My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
> After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart today as far as is possible.
> I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
>
> My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I don’t know how it looks at the inside.
>
> So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It did cost me our house in 1 hour.
>
> http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand>
>
> Regards William Pe1bsb
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Chris Tate - N6WM

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

That’s horrible William. So sorry for you loss.

I am sure many in this great community will rally to assist if needed OM.

That is really scary. Can you imagine how many go-pro packs are in every airplane headed to a vacation destination..

Wow.

GL

Chris
N6WM

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:59 PM
To: William Lagerberg <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion

So sorry to hear about this, William! Best of luck recovering from this tragedy.

I hope you’re able to salvage some of your ham gear. If you’re stuck without a rig, let me know. We might have a refurbished KX2 or KX3 we could loan you.

Perhaps this would be good time to remind everyone to be careful with Li-ion batteries for all products. For example, see page 2 of the KXBT2 battery pack instructions:

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740288%20KXBC2%20and%20KXBT2%20Instructions,%20rev%20A5.pdf

Perhaps the most important line in this document is: "Do not leave the battery unattended during charging. Charge only on a nonflammable surface.

On behalf of Elecraft, 73,

Wayne
N6KR

> On May 17, 2017, at 2:29 PM, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.
>
> So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it
> and it was ok ( with 10% loading current) Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a fire.
> We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark smoke.
>
> My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if
> it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
>
> My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
> After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart today as far as is possible.
> I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
>
> My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I don’t know how it looks at the inside.
>
> So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It did cost me our house in 1 hour.
>
> http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-ui
> t-vanwege-grote-brand
> <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-u
> it-vanwege-grote-brand>
>
> Regards William Pe1bsb
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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timmers

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

William, je hebt het geluk om het vuur te ontsnappen. Uw leven en dat van
uw geliefden is belangrijker dan de uitrusting die verloren gaat. Ik weet
dat het niet echt troost is, nu dat je naar een verbrand huis kijkt, maar
dat is de realiteit. Ik las het nieuwsbericht en zag je brandende huis, met
de antenne daarboven en zag dat het een smalle ontsnapping was voor jou en
je familie.

Jan - VE7JBT

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> That’s horrible William. So sorry for you loss.
>
> I am sure many in this great community will rally to assist if needed OM.
>
> That is really scary. Can you imagine how many go-pro packs are in every
> airplane headed to a vacation destination..
>
> Wow.
>
> GL
>
> Chris
> N6WM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:59 PM
> To: William Lagerberg <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion
>
> So sorry to hear about this, William! Best of luck recovering from this
> tragedy.
>
> I hope you’re able to salvage some of your ham gear. If you’re stuck
> without a rig, let me know. We might have a refurbished KX2 or KX3 we could
> loan you.
>
> Perhaps this would be good time to remind everyone to be careful with
> Li-ion batteries for all products. For example, see page 2 of the KXBT2
> battery pack instructions:
>
> <a href="http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740288%20KXBC2%20and%">http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740288%20KXBC2%20and%
> 20KXBT2%20Instructions,%20rev%20A5.pdf
>
> Perhaps the most important line in this document is: "Do not leave the
> battery unattended during charging. Charge only on a nonflammable surface.
>
> On behalf of Elecraft, 73,
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 2017, at 2:29 PM, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement
> (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> > A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's
> because they where not loading anymore.
> >
> > So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it
> > and it was ok ( with 10% loading current) Then I dit put the second one
> in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a
> fire.
> > We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark
> smoke.
> >
> > My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if
> > it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
> >
> > My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20
> cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
> > After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart
> today as far as is possible.
> > I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
> >
> > My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the
> outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I
> don’t know how it looks at the inside.
> >
> > So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s.
> It did cost me our house in 1 hour.
> >
> > http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-ui
> > t-vanwege-grote-brand
> > <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-u
> > it-vanwege-grote-brand>
> >
> > Regards William Pe1bsb
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> > [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Regards;
John Timmers
______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Cheers - VE7JBT KX3 owner

Matthew Cook

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by William Lagerberg-2

William,

We're sorry to hear about your fire, especially loosing all of your
Elecraft gear.

If you are washing your equipment with water it's important that you go to
the shop and purchase *distilled *water like you should use for your solder
sponge or car battery. Distilled water will mobilise ions and remove them
from causing further corrosion damage to your electronic assemblies. Your
worst enemy are alkalies like salt and reactive elements like Iron, both
found in municipal town water. Keep washing with distilled water and keep
flushing it for a few days and then let it dry out in a warm dry place. I
have rescued a few KX3's after having taken a swim in sea water. I'm also
luck to work at a semiconductor foundry, so we have 99.99995% pure water on
site to work with (*grin*).

I'm also assuming that the fire was a LiPO battery. The advice you have
received about not entering your basement is wise. LiPO fires create
compounds that are very, very toxic, I would also expect your insurance
company to have your basement professionally cleaned before going back
inside. You may find that after cleaning it may be necessary to seal in
all the contaminates with paint or sealing compounds. If in doubt talk to
your local fire department (seriously) they should have Material Safety
Data Sheets (MSDS) for LiPO battery and containment after a fire. Europe
and Australia are similar in adoption of solar battery systems, so with
large scale LiPO batteries in homes now, fire departments have further
health risks to concern themselves with.

Having had LiPO and LiFePO4 batteries (yes these burn too) that I use in my
Radio Control Models catch on fire at various times I now charge any LiPO
battery in a fire bag.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries/lipo-safe-bags.html?___store=en_us

They are cheap insurance that is for certain.

Mijn beste wensen

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 18 May 2017 at 06:59, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Guys,
>
> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??)
> I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's
> because they where not loading anymore.
>
> So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it and
> it was ok ( with 10% loading current)
> Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my
> daughter called me there is a fire.
> We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark
> smoke.
>
> My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if it
> is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
>
> My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm
> off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
> After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart
> today as far as is possible.
> I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
>
> My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the
> outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I
> don’t know how it looks at the inside.
>
> So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It
> did cost me our house in 1 hour.
>
> http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-
> dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/
> nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand>
>
> Regards William Pe1bsb
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Albert Winger

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

Thoughts and prayers are with you and your family William

73
Al
W1NGA
Colorado Springs, CO

> On May 17, 2017, at 6:28 PM, Matthew Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> William,
>
> We're sorry to hear about your fire, especially loosing all of your
> Elecraft gear.
>
> If you are washing your equipment with water it's important that you go to
> the shop and purchase *distilled *water like you should use for your solder
> sponge or car battery. Distilled water will mobilise ions and remove them
> from causing further corrosion damage to your electronic assemblies. Your
> worst enemy are alkalies like salt and reactive elements like Iron, both
> found in municipal town water. Keep washing with distilled water and keep
> flushing it for a few days and then let it dry out in a warm dry place. I
> have rescued a few KX3's after having taken a swim in sea water. I'm also
> luck to work at a semiconductor foundry, so we have 99.99995% pure water on
> site to work with (*grin*).
>
> I'm also assuming that the fire was a LiPO battery. The advice you have
> received about not entering your basement is wise. LiPO fires create
> compounds that are very, very toxic, I would also expect your insurance
> company to have your basement professionally cleaned before going back
> inside. You may find that after cleaning it may be necessary to seal in
> all the contaminates with paint or sealing compounds. If in doubt talk to
> your local fire department (seriously) they should have Material Safety
> Data Sheets (MSDS) for LiPO battery and containment after a fire. Europe
> and Australia are similar in adoption of solar battery systems, so with
> large scale LiPO batteries in homes now, fire departments have further
> health risks to concern themselves with.
>
> Having had LiPO and LiFePO4 batteries (yes these burn too) that I use in my
> Radio Control Models catch on fire at various times I now charge any LiPO
> battery in a fire bag.
>
> https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries/lipo-safe-bags.html?___store=en_us
>
> They are cheap insurance that is for certain.
>
> Mijn beste wensen
>
> Matthew
> VK5ZM
>
>
>> On 18 May 2017 at 06:59, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??)
>> I do all my thing for the hobby there.
>> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's
>> because they where not loading anymore.
>>
>> So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it and
>> it was ok ( with 10% loading current)
>> Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my
>> daughter called me there is a fire.
>> We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark
>> smoke.
>>
>> My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if it
>> is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
>>
>> My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm
>> off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
>> After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart
>> today as far as is possible.
>> I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
>>
>> My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the
>> outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I
>> don’t know how it looks at the inside.
>>
>> So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It
>> did cost me our house in 1 hour.
>>
>> http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-
>> dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/
>> nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-uit-vanwege-grote-brand>
>>
>> Regards William Pe1bsb
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

wayne burdick

Re: Fire in the house li-ion [not due to an Elecraft product]

Administrator

The above thread is going deep enough that I wanted to make sure this point was not missed. (The fire was caused by a Go-Pro battery pack.)

Still, it’s a cautionary tale. Everyone using batteries of any kind should be very aware of proper handling and charging guidelines.

Sorry for the extra bandwidth....

Wayne
N6KR

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Jack Brindle-2

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by Chris Tate - N6WM

There is a big difference. They are not being charged while on the airplane. Most of the Lion problems occur while charging.

- Jack, W6FB

> On May 17, 2017, at 4:27 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That’s horrible William. So sorry for you loss.
>
> I am sure many in this great community will rally to assist if needed OM.
>
> That is really scary. Can you imagine how many go-pro packs are in every airplane headed to a vacation destination..
>
> Wow.
>
> GL
>
> Chris
> N6WM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:59 PM
> To: William Lagerberg <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion
>
> So sorry to hear about this, William! Best of luck recovering from this tragedy.
>
> I hope you’re able to salvage some of your ham gear. If you’re stuck without a rig, let me know. We might have a refurbished KX2 or KX3 we could loan you.
>
> Perhaps this would be good time to remind everyone to be careful with Li-ion batteries for all products. For example, see page 2 of the KXBT2 battery pack instructions:
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740288%20KXBC2%20and%20KXBT2%20Instructions,%20rev%20A5.pdf
>
> Perhaps the most important line in this document is: "Do not leave the battery unattended during charging. Charge only on a nonflammable surface.
>
> On behalf of Elecraft, 73,
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 2:29 PM, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
>> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.
>>
>> So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it
>> and it was ok ( with 10% loading current) Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a fire.
>> We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark smoke.
>>
>> My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if
>> it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
>>
>> My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
>> After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart today as far as is possible.
>> I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
>>
>> My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I don’t know how it looks at the inside.
>>
>> So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It did cost me our house in 1 hour.
>>
>> http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-ui
>> t-vanwege-grote-brand
>> <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-u
>> it-vanwege-grote-brand>
>>
>> Regards William Pe1bsb
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Chris Tate - N6WM

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

Not "always" being charged, but most flight do have charge ports and it's quite conceivable that travelers could charge their GoPro battery packs on the plane.. not the wisest move but not everyone is wise

Thanks
~C.

> On May 17, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Jack Brindle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There is a big difference. They are not being charged while on the airplane. Most of the Lion problems occur while charging.
>
> - Jack, W6FB
>
>
>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:27 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> That’s horrible William. So sorry for you loss.
>>
>> I am sure many in this great community will rally to assist if needed OM.
>>
>> That is really scary. Can you imagine how many go-pro packs are in every airplane headed to a vacation destination..
>>
>> Wow.
>>
>> GL
>>
>> Chris
>> N6WM
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:59 PM
>> To: William Lagerberg <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion
>>
>> So sorry to hear about this, William! Best of luck recovering from this tragedy.
>>
>> I hope you’re able to salvage some of your ham gear. If you’re stuck without a rig, let me know. We might have a refurbished KX2 or KX3 we could loan you.
>>
>> Perhaps this would be good time to remind everyone to be careful with Li-ion batteries for all products. For example, see page 2 of the KXBT2 battery pack instructions:
>>
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740288%20KXBC2%20and%20KXBT2%20Instructions,%20rev%20A5.pdf
>>
>> Perhaps the most important line in this document is: "Do not leave the battery unattended during charging. Charge only on a nonflammable surface.
>>
>> On behalf of Elecraft, 73,
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 17, 2017, at 2:29 PM, William Lagerberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
>>> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.
>>>
>>> So I put the first one on the loader for 8 till 9 hours and checked it
>>> and it was ok ( with 10% loading current) Then I dit put the second one in same place at 10 in the morning at 3 my daughter called me there is a fire.
>>> We rusted to the cellar but I could not enter it was filled with dark smoke.
>>>
>>> My shack is gone and 90 % off my house, I have insurance don’t now if
>>> it is enough to cover all of my Elecraft stuff
>>>
>>> My K1, my own build K2 my K3 and my KX3 are gone, I found my K1 in 20 cm off water really down under, I clean’t it with fresh water.
>>> After that flushed it with pure alcohol. It is completely taken apart today as far as is possible.
>>> I Hope it will survive I will let it dry for a lot of day’s
>>>
>>> My K2 is melted the same as my P3 and my K3 perhaps I can order the outside of both, but a am still not allowed to enter the basement so I don’t know how it looks at the inside.
>>>
>>> So finale the message is please take care with li-ion accuse battery’s. It did cost me our house in 1 hour.
>>>
>>> http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-ui
>>> t-vanwege-grote-brand
>>> <http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/206119/bewoner-vlucht-met-dieren-pand-u
>>> it-vanwege-grote-brand>
>>>
>>> Regards William Pe1bsb
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by William Lagerberg-2

Thank you very much for this advice.

I have often heard of fires due to Li-on batteries, but I have no idea of the nature of the ‘fire’. In other words, do they burn, or do they explode scattering ignited fragments.

Knowing this would help in finding a safe container for charging them. It is not practical to always avoid leaving them unattended while charging.

I’d like to know more about the bag someone mentioned, and if cooling is a problem.

Rich, n0ce

From: William Lagerberg<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 4:30 PM
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion

Guys,

I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.

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kevino z

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

Was the fire a result of the lithium battery or leaving a charger unattended while charging? I am not sure, but the charger I have has a temp probe that gets strapped on the LiFePo4 battery pack, and monitors it during the charging (in addition to balanced charging).
It is a sad event, that is for certain, and I am not criticizing...

-Kevin (KK4YEL)

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced !

> On May 18, 2017, at 12:05, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you very much for this advice.
>
> I have often heard of fires due to Li-on batteries, but I have no idea of the nature of the ‘fire’. In other words, do they burn, or do they explode scattering ignited fragments.
>
> Knowing this would help in finding a safe container for charging them. It is not practical to always avoid leaving them unattended while charging.
>
> I’d like to know more about the bag someone mentioned, and if cooling is a problem.
>
> Rich, n0ce
>
> From: William Lagerberg<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 4:30 PM
> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion
>
> Guys,
>
> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's because they where not loading anymore.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

ae5ka

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2

I took an old LiIon battery pack out into the back yard, and from a safe
distanc shot it with a pellet gun. In short order it began violently
venting gases and gray smoke, no doubt at a very high temperature. I didn't
see flame, but it was daylight and maybe too bright. It made a big
impression on me. The battery pack was heavily charred by the episode. I
don't doubt they could explode, but I don't think that is the typical
scenario.

Chip AE5KA

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank you very much for this advice.
>
> I have often heard of fires due to Li-on batteries, but I have no idea of
> the nature of the ‘fire’. In other words, do they burn, or do they
> explode scattering ignited fragments.
>
> Knowing this would help in finding a safe container for charging them. It
> is not practical to always avoid leaving them unattended while charging.
>
> I’d like to know more about the bag someone mentioned, and if cooling is
> a problem.
>
> Rich, n0ce
>
> From: William Lagerberg<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 4:30 PM
> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion
>
> Guys,
>
> I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement (cellar??)
> I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's
> because they where not loading anymore.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

James Doty

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

I crashed an r/c helicopter in one of the gyms at the school district
where I work.

The battery pack did burst in to flames as Jessie KB7PSG can attest. It
was kind of scary.
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Kevin - K4VD

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by kevino z

I'm not sure how much I would trust the temperature strap. Certainly not
enough to leave it charging unattended. These things, from what I see on
Youtube, start their reaction on the inside and violently explode. I am not
sure reading case temperatures would give warning soon enough.

Maybe I missed this in the thread but can someone cite an authoritative and
maybe trustworthy source for Lithium battery safety? So many old spouse
tales seem to have grown up around this technology.

Kev K4VD

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:20 PM, kevino z <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Was the fire a result of the lithium battery or leaving a charger
> unattended while charging? I am not sure, but the charger I have has a temp
> probe that gets strapped on the LiFePo4 battery pack, and monitors it
> during the charging (in addition to balanced charging).
> It is a sad event, that is for certain, and I am not criticizing...
>
>
> -Kevin (KK4YEL)
>
> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large
> number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced !
>
> > On May 18, 2017, at 12:05, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you very much for this advice.
> >
> > I have often heard of fires due to Li-on batteries, but I have no idea
> of the nature of the ‘fire’. In other words, do they burn, or do they
> explode scattering ignited fragments.
> >
> > Knowing this would help in finding a safe container for charging them.
> It is not practical to always avoid leaving them unattended while charging.
> >
> > I’d like to know more about the bag someone mentioned, and if cooling is
> a problem.
> >
> > Rich, n0ce
> >
> > From: William Lagerberg<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 4:30 PM
> > To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Fire in the house li-ion
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > I want to give you a advice, my shack it (was) in the basement
> (cellar??) I do all my thing for the hobby there.
> > A collega of mine asked me to take a look at two Go-Pro LI-Ion accu's
> because they where not loading anymore.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

k6dgw

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by ae5ka

I was using a tiny Li-Poly pack about the size of a small matchbox that
I got from the local RC model store with my KX1 when it began to smoke.
Fortunately,I had it on a pigtail, was out on the deck in a Spartan
Sprint, and could unplug it and fling it over the railing to the gravel
driveway.

There were no flames or major explosions, but there were a lot of sparks
and quite a bit of smoke for such a small package. The pyrotechnic
display went on for perhaps 40-50 seconds, followed by some low-key
fizzing and popping. It left a burned mark in the gravel when it was
cool. NOTE: This happened while discharging the battery, and I wasn't
transmitting at the moment.

I struggled through required Chemistry in college, but I did learn
enough about that particular column in the Periodic Table to avoid
getting the hose. [:-)

I have always charged all of my lithium-ish batteries outside from a
solar panelso they contain only green and no brown electronsfor events
where that matters. I usually put the battery in a metal coffee can.
Ibelieve, but do not know for sure, that LiFePO4 chemistry is quite a
bit more stable than others.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 5/18/2017 10:27 AM, Chip Stratton wrote:

> I took an old LiIon battery pack out into the back yard, and from a safe
> distanc shot it with a pellet gun. In short order it began violently
> venting gases and gray smoke, no doubt at a very high temperature. I didn't
> see flame, but it was daylight and maybe too bright. It made a big
> impression on me. The battery pack was heavily charred by the episode. I
> don't doubt they could explode, but I don't think that is the typical
> scenario.
>
> Chip AE5KA
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you very much for this advice.
>>
>> I have often heard of fires due to Li-on batteries, but I have no idea of
>> the nature of the ‘fire’. In other words, do they burn, or do they
>> explode scattering ignited fragments.
>>

Bill W4ZV

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2

N0CE wrote:

"I’d like to know more about the bag someone mentioned"

744 hits for "fireproof charging bag lipo":

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=fireproof+charging+bag&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xfireproof+charging+bag+lipo.TRS1&_nkw=fireproof+charging+bag+lipo&_sacat=0

This incident is a really good reminder for all of us! When I got several LiPO batteries and a charger several years ago, I also got a bag like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fireproof-RC-Lipo-Battery-Safe-Bag-Sleeve-Lipo-Guard-Charge-Storage-bag-9-x11-8-/321816396647?hash=item4aedc08367:g:2UsAAOSwPhdVA5Jj

I always charge outside our house with the bag sitting on concrete or a paving stone. I also carefully inspect my LiPOs for swelling which indicates problems. Better safe than sorry!

73, Bill W4ZV

Grant Youngman-2

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

Maybe … there are a lot of YouTube videos that show this type of bag being totally destroyed by the contained batteries, flames shooting out in spectacular fashion, etc.

One guy in a video went so far as to build a “containment vessel” of concrete blocks and cement board for a lid. IMHO, if you have to go to these extremes to safely charge a battery, you have to question whether you really want to use those batteries :-)

> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fireproof-RC-Lipo-Battery-Safe-Bag-Sleeve-Lipo-Guard-Charge-Storage-bag-9-x11-8-/321816396647?hash=item4aedc08367:g:2UsAAOSwPhdVA5Jj

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

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Bill W4ZV

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

Grant Youngman-2 wrote

Maybe … there are a lot of YouTube videos that show this type of bag being totally destroyed by the contained batteries, flames shooting out in spectacular fashion, etc.

One guy in a video went so far as to build a “containment vessel” of concrete blocks and cement board for a lid. IMHO, if you have to go to these extremes to safely charge a battery, you have to question whether you really want to use those batteries :-)

LiPO's energy density (mAh/ounce) is why they're popular for powering helicopters. This website has excellent knowledge that anyone using them should be aware of. Not to say there aren't some Darwin Award candidates using them. ;-) I've never had any problems but I follow charging, care and storage recommendations religiously.

http://www.rchelisite.com/lipo_battery_charging_and_safety_guide.php

73, Bill W4ZV

Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Fire in the house li-ion

In reply to this post by Kevin - K4VD

As Kevin, K4VD wrote:
“Maybe I missed this in the thread but can someone cite an authoritative and
maybe trustworthy source for Lithium battery safety? So many old spouse
tales seem to have grown up around this technology.”

And my answer is:
Yes, I agree. The only things I have picked up on, happened while researching the promised Graphene battery. It was said that Lithium type batteries destroy from charging them with too much current, or from subjecting them to physical shock. (Some have mentioned shock testing) I try to keep my chargers down to a 50-70 mA rating.

Considering the millions of devices with Li-on batteries, the odds of a fire must be slim. Still, it can’t hurt to take precaution when charging them. I salvaged a metal pot with a handle so I can pick it up safely and carry it outside if needed. I think I can contain a fire if they don’t explode.

And thanks for the info both pro and con about the protective bags. Anyone have a Tesla?

Rich, n0ce

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