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Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

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KC6D

Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

I had trouble getting the KX3 Utility program to communicate with the radio in Ubuntu. Here's what solved the problem for me. I take no credit for figuring this out, these were postings by others that I found in three different places. I decided to collect the details here so they'd be all in one spot. Hope this helps someone.

The FTDI drivers for the USB cable provided by Elecraft are a native part of Ubuntu 12.04 and do not need to be re-installed. Just plug the cable into a USB port.

I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program will successfully operate:

(Run in a terminal)

sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0

sudo apt-get install curl

The first command is necessary to permit all users of the computer to access the "serial" port ttyUSB0. Note: the last character in USB0 is a zero. Without this command you will get an error message telling you that the KX3 Utility program can't communicate with the port.

The second command installs the Linux function "curl" which enables Ubuntu to automatically communicate with and download from the Elecraft (and anyone else's) FTP server. Note: the last character in "curl" is the letter L in lower-case. Without this command you will get an error message stating the KX3 Utility program is unable to connect to the Elecraft FTP server.

Once I did the above the Utility program ran smoothly and the firmware update and other functions all appear to work.

Don KC6D

alsopb

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 7/7/2012 16:51, KC6D wrote:

> I had trouble getting the KX3 Utility program to communicate with the radio
> in Ubuntu. Here's what solved the problem for me. I take no credit for
> figuring this out, these were postings by others that I found in three
> different places. I decided to collect the details here so they'd be all in
> one spot. Hope this helps someone.
>
> The FTDI drivers for the USB cable provided by Elecraft are a native part of
> Ubuntu 12.04 and do not need to be re-installed. Just plug the cable into a
> USB port.
>
> I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program
> will successfully operate:
>
> (Run in a terminal)
>
> sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0
>
> sudo apt-get install curl
>
> The first command is necessary to permit all users of the computer to access
> the "serial" port ttyUSB0. Note: the last character in USB0 is a zero.
> Without this command you will get an error message telling you that the KX3
> Utility program can't communicate with the port.
>
> The second command installs the Linux function "curl" which enables Ubuntu
> to automatically communicate with and download from the Elecraft (and anyone
> else's) FTP server. Note: the last character in "curl" is the letter L in
> lower-case. Without this command you will get an error message stating the
> KX3 Utility program is unable to connect to the Elecraft FTP server.
>
> Once I did the above the Utility program ran smoothly and the firmware
> update and other functions all appear to work.
>
> Don KC6D
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Firmware-upgrades-using-Ubuntu-12-04-tp7558796.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12
>
>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12

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Jussi Eloranta

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

On 07/07/2012 09:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

> I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program
> will successfully operate:
>
> (Run in a terminal)
>
> sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0
>
> sudo apt-get install curl
>
>

Rather than changing the device permissions (which you have to do every
time you boot or unplug/plug the usb serial device),
you should add yourself to the dialout group:

sudo usermod -G dialout <your_username>

where <your_username> should be replaced with your username on the
system. The above will execute as root, so you need to have sudo
permissions. There is probably some GUI based tool for this but command
line is simpler ;-) After doing this, you will need to logout and login
again. You can verify that you have the correct group privs with the id
command, for example, for me it says:

uid=500(eloranta) gid=500(eloranta)
groups=500(eloranta),18(dialout),39(video),489(pulse-access),490(pulse),493(jackuser)

where 18(dialout) is the important part.

As for curl, I think the utility program should check for its existence
during startup and appropriately tell the user to install it before
proceeding.

Jussi Eloranta (AA6KJ)

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Kevin Stover

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by alsopb

Nothing cryptic about it.

"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the system
to run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo they
will be required to authenticate with user name and password.

"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that
lets a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should permit
to a file or program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes
include permissions.

The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" read,
write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.

"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's
to install software *and all known dependencies*. The program
automatically downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu
repositories along with dependencies and installs it.

In this case it installed the program cURL.

On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>

--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
with easier commands? I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
which leaves me in a lurch. There is so much to know, so little time. Let
the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use. I use Puppy off a USB
stick and it is so simple... just like me. NOT. :=#

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 1:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Nothing cryptic about it.

"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the system to
run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo they will be
required to authenticate with user name and password.

"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that lets
a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should permit to a
file or program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes include
permissions.

The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" read,
write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.

"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's to
install software *and all known dependencies*. The program automatically
downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu repositories along
with dependencies and installs it.

In this case it installed the program cURL.

On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>

--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Matt Zilmer

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Hi Bill,

These are just csh or bash commands, not programming.

73,
matt

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:10:18 -0500, you wrote:

>Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
>with easier commands? I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
>and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
>which leaves me in a lurch. There is so much to know, so little time. Let
>the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use. I use Puppy off a USB
>stick and it is so simple... just like me. NOT. :=#
>
>73,
>Bill
>K9YEQ
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kevin
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 1:51 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
>Nothing cryptic about it.
>
>"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the system to
>run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo they will be
>required to authenticate with user name and password.
>
>"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that lets
>a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should permit to a
>file or program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
>It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes include
>permissions.
>
>The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" read,
>write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.
>
>"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's to
>install software *and all known dependencies*. The program automatically
>downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu repositories along
>with dependencies and installs it.
>
>
>In this case it installed the program cURL.
>
>
>On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
>> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
>> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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vk4tux

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by Bill K9YEQ

This is an easy guide for a gui solution;

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
ing-gui.html

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
with easier commands? I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
which leaves me in a lurch. There is so much to know, so little time. Let
the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use. I use Puppy off a USB
stick and it is so simple... just like me. NOT. :=#

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

vk4tux

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
ing-gui.html

Annoying when the link string gets broken.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:50 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

This is an easy guide for a gui solution;

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
ing-gui.html

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
with easier commands? I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
which leaves me in a lurch. There is so much to know, so little time. Let
the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use. I use Puppy off a USB
stick and it is so simple... just like me. NOT. :=#

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Bill K9YEQ

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer

Well there you go, Matt. I am unfamiliar with those. I am such an MS
person. I don't use manual commands other than MS, so this doesn't help me.
I use the GUI which is just clicks and I don't do much command line as I
don't have to load up the getting older can't remember all this stuff, type
of activity.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 4:45 PM
To: Bill K9YEQ
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Hi Bill,

These are just csh or bash commands, not programming.

73,
matt

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:10:18 -0500, you wrote:

>Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple
>GUI with easier commands? I for one have no clue for programming but
>use Ubuntu and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the
>programming language which leaves me in a lurch. There is so much to
>know, so little time. Let the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals
>to use. I use Puppy off a USB stick and it is so simple... just like
>me. NOT. :=#
>
>73,
>Bill
>K9YEQ
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Kevin
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 1:51 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
>Nothing cryptic about it.
>
>"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the
>system to run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo
>they will be required to authenticate with user name and password.
>
>"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that
>lets a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should
>permit to a file or
>program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
>It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes
>include permissions.
>
>The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others"
>read, write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.
>
>"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's
>to install software *and all known dependencies*. The program
>automatically downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu
>repositories along with dependencies and installs it.
>
>
>In this case it installed the program cURL.
>
>
>On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
>> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
>> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>

Matt Maguire

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by alsopb

The "super decoder ring" you seek is the Linux "man" command. For example:
man sudo
man chmod
man apt-get

This will explain what the commands and their various options do.

73, Matt VK2ACL

On 08/07/2012, at 12:56 AM, Brian Alsop <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> On 7/7/2012 16:51, KC6D wrote:
>> I had trouble getting the KX3 Utility program to communicate with the radio
>> in Ubuntu. Here's what solved the problem for me. I take no credit for
>> figuring this out, these were postings by others that I found in three
>> different places. I decided to collect the details here so they'd be all in
>> one spot. Hope this helps someone.
>>
>> The FTDI drivers for the USB cable provided by Elecraft are a native part of
>> Ubuntu 12.04 and do not need to be re-installed. Just plug the cable into a
>> USB port.
>>
>> I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program
>> will successfully operate:
>>
>> (Run in a terminal)
>>
>> sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0
>>
>> sudo apt-get install curl
>>
>> The first command is necessary to permit all users of the computer to access
>> the "serial" port ttyUSB0. Note: the last character in USB0 is a zero.
>> Without this command you will get an error message telling you that the KX3
>> Utility program can't communicate with the port.
>>
>> The second command installs the Linux function "curl" which enables Ubuntu
>> to automatically communicate with and download from the Elecraft (and anyone
>> else's) FTP server. Note: the last character in "curl" is the letter L in
>> lower-case. Without this command you will get an error message stating the
>> KX3 Utility program is unable to connect to the Elecraft FTP server.
>>
>> Once I did the above the Utility program ran smoothly and the firmware
>> update and other functions all appear to work.
>>
>> Don KC6D
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Firmware-upgrades-using-Ubuntu-12-04-tp7558796.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

W Paul Mills

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by vk4tux

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

<http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-using-gui.html>

On 07/07/2012 05:25 PM, Adrian wrote:
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
>
>
ing-gui.html

>
> Annoying when the link string gets broken.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent:
> Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:50 AM To: [hidden email] Subject:
> Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
> This is an easy guide for a gui solution;
>
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
>
>

ing-gui.html

>
> -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
> Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
> Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a
> simple GUI with easier commands? I for one have no clue for
> programming but use Ubuntu and shorter versions of Linux which
> don't require the programming language which leaves me in a lurch.
> There is so much to know, so little time. Let the devotees do the
> GUI for the mere mortals to use. I use Puppy off a USB stick and
> it is so simple... just like me. NOT. :=#
>
> 73, Bill K9YEQ
>
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

- --
/*************************************************
* Amateur Radio Station AC0HY *
* W. Paul Mills SN807 *
* Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
* President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club *
*************************************************/

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______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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vk4tux

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

That's a good trick thanks, so contained within <...> the wordwrap or
whatever feature that messes it up stays at bay.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W Paul Mills
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 1:15 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

<http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-u
sing-gui.html>

On 07/07/2012 05:25 PM, Adrian wrote:
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubu
> ntu-us
>
>
ing-gui.html

ing-gui.html

>
> -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
> Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
> Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple
> GUI with easier commands? I for one have no clue for programming but
> use Ubuntu and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the
> programming language which leaves me in a lurch.
> There is so much to know, so little time. Let the devotees do the GUI
> for the mere mortals to use. I use Puppy off a USB stick and it is so
> simple... just like me. NOT. :=#
>
> 73, Bill K9YEQ
>
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
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W Paul Mills

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Yup! Also note that updating groups with a gui in later versions
including 12.04 may require searching for "Users and Groups" in "Dash
Home"... Does not seem to show up in ANY menus. Wonderful new "feature" :)

On 07/09/2012 02:13 PM, Adrian wrote:
> That's a good trick thanks, so contained within <...> the wordwrap or
> whatever feature that messes it up stays at bay.
>

--
/*************************************************
* Amateur Radio Station AC0HY *
* W. Paul Mills SN807 *
* Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
* President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club *
*************************************************/

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Dick Roth

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
"gnome-system-tools". This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
Center. Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
Dash.
--
73 de Dick, ka1oz

Elecraft K3/100
Titan-DX Vertical
G5RV Doublet

On Mon, 2012-07-09 at 18:06 -0500, W Paul Mills wrote:
> Yup! Also note that updating groups with a gui in later versions
> including 12.04 may require searching for "Users and Groups" in "Dash
> Home"... Does not seem to show up in ANY menus. Wonderful new "feature" :)
>
> On 07/09/2012 02:13 PM, Adrian wrote:
> > That's a good trick thanks, so contained within <...> the wordwrap or
> > whatever feature that messes it up stays at bay.
> >
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.

I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study",
the terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and the user groups are
useless unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I
have worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems
are no stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all
to those who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.

In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux
brand of geekdom.

I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me
to a (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is
similar to those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any
distro is just not going to "make the grade".

For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great,
as is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those
who want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows
peer to peer network, there is just not enough explicit information
about how to set it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native,
but with Linux, it is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to
master after several attempts with Samba configuration.

I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.

So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay
that way" attitude, it will never fly properly. Ubuntu and Mint have
come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long way
to go in usability.

Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to
make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for
photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image
manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to
the average user.

Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will
never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user. And that is
what is wrong with Linux.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> "gnome-system-tools". This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> Center. Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> Dash.

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Bill Cotter

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Don,

You have expressed what the marketplace confirms - people who want
more (ie: clear documentation) in an OS will pay more to get it. MS
Windows and products deliver the goods in that department, Apple
even more so in an odd way.

Linux will never be mainstream until it reaches outside its
community and serves the popular marketplace. Since there is
limited commercialization to cultivate the product, it's unlikely
that it will happen. Novell & RedHat tried, and didn't get very far.

73 N4LG

At 12:24 AM 7/10/2012, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
>Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all
>Linux
>distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
>users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
>nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very
>unhelpful.
>Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>
>I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past,
>and have
>found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom
>study",
>the terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and the user
>groups are
>useless unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
>Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I
>have worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS
>systems
>are no stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful
>at all
>to those who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>
>In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for
>Linux.
>The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
>explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the
>Linux
>brand of geekdom.
>
>I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to
>point me
>to a (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is
>similar to those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux
>in any
>distro is just not going to "make the grade".
>
>For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is
>great,
>as is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for
>those
>who want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a
>Windows
>peer to peer network, there is just not enough explicit information
>about how to set it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is
>native,
>but with Linux, it is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to
>master after several attempts with Samba configuration.
>
>I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
>Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not
>work
>consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for
>Win7.
>
>So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay
>that way" attitude, it will never fly properly. Ubuntu and Mint have
>come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long
>way
>to go in usability.
>
>Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for
>applications to
>make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for
>photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image
>manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous
>meaning to
>the average user.
>
>Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will
>never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my
>opinion
>- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
>exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user. And
>that is
>what is wrong with Linux.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> > FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> > "gnome-system-tools". This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> > Center. Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> > Dash.
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dick Roth

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

I might as well chime in: in my opinion Linux, as Unix, was and is
never meant to be a mainstream OS. Linux, a version of Unix designed
for the Intel CPU space, is a technologist's tool. It has been built
over the years to satisfy needs of folks dealing with technology. For
those that need support, there are avenues to commercial support either
through the distro (Red Hat, Ubuntu) or by independents.

Since a fair number of hams work in technology, it is fitting that there
be available the K3 (et al) Utility in a form usable on the Linux
platform.

I will now go back to reading the mail...

--
73 de Dick, ka1oz

Elecraft K3/100
Titan-DX Vertical
G5RV Doublet

On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 07:18 -0400, Bill Cotter wrote:

> Don,
>
> You have expressed what the marketplace confirms - people who want
> more (ie: clear documentation) in an OS will pay more to get it. MS
> Windows and products deliver the goods in that department, Apple
> even more so in an odd way.
>
> Linux will never be mainstream until it reaches outside its
> community and serves the popular marketplace. Since there is
> limited commercialization to cultivate the product, it's unlikely
> that it will happen. Novell & RedHat tried, and didn't get very far.
>
> 73 N4LG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:24 AM 7/10/2012, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> >Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all
> >Linux
> >distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
> >users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
> >nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very
> >unhelpful.
> >Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
> >
> >I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past,
> >and have
> >found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom
> >study",
> >the terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and the user
> >groups are
> >useless unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
> >Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I
> >have worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS
> >systems
> >are no stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful
> >at all
> >to those who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
> >
> >In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for
> >Linux.
> >The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> >explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the
> >Linux
> >brand of geekdom.
> >
> >I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to
> >point me
> >to a (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is
> >similar to those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux
> >in any
> >distro is just not going to "make the grade".
> >
> >For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is
> >great,
> >as is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for
> >those
> >who want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a
> >Windows
> >peer to peer network, there is just not enough explicit information
> >about how to set it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is
> >native,
> >but with Linux, it is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to
> >master after several attempts with Samba configuration.
> >
> >I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
> >Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not
> >work
> >consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for
> >Win7.
> >
> >So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay
> >that way" attitude, it will never fly properly. Ubuntu and Mint have
> >come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long
> >way
> >to go in usability.
> >
> >Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for
> >applications to
> >make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for
> >photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image
> >manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous
> >meaning to
> >the average user.
> >
> >Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will
> >never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my
> >opinion
> >- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
> >exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user. And
> >that is
> >what is wrong with Linux.
> >
> >73,
> >Don W3FPR
> >
> >On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> > > FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> > > "gnome-system-tools". This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> > > Center. Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> > > Dash.
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >Elecraft mailing list
> >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Mike Markowski-2

Re: Unix [was: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04]

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Like your note, Don, this will be my one and only. I've used unix variants
since 1981 through the present at school & work (air traffic control transponder
design, radar system design, RF propagation modeling, etc.), and as a result use
linux at home. So I'm biased to begin with but want to offer a few words in
defense of linux while at the same time agreeing with much of what you said.

Windows developed in a hobby environment and from the start was geared toward
the guy at home. Unix started as a trimmed down - compared to Multics, where it
derives its name - multiuser professional environment. The OSes are coming from
two different places, and when they end up on the desktop new users have very
different first experiences! Windows wants to be friendly, Unix in general has
no such ambition.

About man pages, they are great memory refreshers when you already know more or
less what to do but aren't a way to learn unix. Similarly, you wouldn't learn
EE from data sheets. Linux, by the way, is only the kernel. The programs are
mostly open source, so everything is fully distributed. (Meaning we're stuck
with whatever names developers choose.) There is no central voice or power to
direct or pull things together. Groups like The Linux Documentation Project
(tdlp.org) try to tackle docs, others tackle other things. You get pockets of
helpful admins, groups who look down their noses at "mere novices," freshly
minted enthusiasts who think they know more than they do, and so on, but no
official Voice of Unix.

I don't think linux will ever be mainstream because it's not "in business."
However, it's powerful, based on simple design concepts, and for better or worse
is more organic and free flowing in its evolution than MS or Apple Oses. MacOS,
incidentally, is layered on top of FreeBSD, and shows what can be done with
commercial focus.

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 07/10/2012 12:24 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
> users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
> nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
> [...]
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Nate Bargmann

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

With all due respect, Don, I've read your comments and some are fair and
some may not be so fair. Allow me to explain.

First, I get the impression that part of your frustration stems from
your existing knowledge of MS Windows quirks and an expectation to be
able to use this knowledge directly to the Linux distribution of your
choice. I think that is a bit unfair as it's akin to expecting my
existing knowledge of Yaesu HF radios to transfer directly to my K3.
That was not the case and I prepared myself to accept and learn the K3
as it is and not attempt to overlay my Yaesu knowledge onto it.

A Linux distribution is not a bug-for-bug drop-in replacement for any
version of MS Windows. It is its own system and, as you have expressed,
has its own vernacular and jargon. I'm not going to assert that one is
correct and the other is not, it just is what it is, to use an over used
phrase. While general computing concepts transfer between systems, I
have found that I need to just accept the differences and move on.
Being more familiar with Linux I often find working with MS Windows to
be an eye-gougingly frustrating experience and cannot fathom how anyone
believes it to be "better" except from a perspective of familiarity.

As for distributions, a lot of people reach for Ubuntu these days.
Since its adoption of Unity for its GUI, I think that Ubuntu has made a
terrible regression for anyone interested in doing anything more than
surfing the Web and reading email or doing multi-media work. My
recommendation based on my experience is to point people toward Xubuntu
which uses the XFCE4 desktop which is much like the older version of
GNOME. It works well and even has a menu entry to manage users and
groups in its System menu. It is also quick and has lighter system
requirements than Ubuntu or Mint.

* On 2012 09 Jul 23:25 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux
> brand of geekdom.

There is a group of HOWTOs that has been maintained for years:

http://www.tldp.org/docs.html#howto

http://www.tldp.org/

I don't know if a guide exists that is a cross-reference from your
Windows knowledge to Linux, which seems to me what you're asking for.

Believe it or not, there are some people who have not used MS Windows
and find it as foreign as experienced Windows users find Linux. That
doesn't help you, but I think it points to my long held belief that
whatever one learns first goes a long way to establishing the foundation
in one's mind of how things should be.

> I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
> Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
> consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.

I'm not sure what you're fighting here as I have no problem with Linux
networking. Perhaps what you are looking for is something like:

http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html

I have never tried it and cannot comment on its stability and
compatibility.

> So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay
> that way" attitude, it will never fly properly. Ubuntu and Mint have
> come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long way
> to go in usability.

I don't quite know how to respond to this except that once again I
suspect you may have been expecting a "just like MS Windows" set of
options and menu entries. I think that is a failing of us who have
engaged in Linux advocacy over the years where Linux has been touted to
be "just like Windows".

I have never used Apple's OS/X but I never hear anyone complain that
it's not "just like Windows" even though casual reading of this and
other mailing lists indicate to me that it is its own system and people
just accept that. I don't see commentary such as yours regarding OS/X,
but I don't pay much attention to OS/X topics so the comments may exist
and I just don't see it. To be fair, OS/X is the realization of one
vision. Linux is the realization of a free-flowing and formless
community's vision.

> Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to
> make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for
> photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image
> manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to
> the average user.

I hate to say, but this is a bit of a strawman argument. Photoshop
existed before the GIMP. There is no way Adobe would have allowed the
authors of the GIMP to use or allude to their name in any way. GIMP
actually stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program. What would be a
proper name?

> Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will
> never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
> - I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
> exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user. And that is
> what is wrong with Linux.

The same arguments are leveled at amateur radio and even sub-avocations
of amateur radio. We see how much resistance there is to bend amateur
radio to the lowest common denominator to make it more acceptable to a
wider audience of less technically inclined people. There is the same
mindset of "holding the line" in Linux circles as in amateur radio
circles. I think an argument can be made that many of problems that
have plagued MS Windows in the past are directly attributable to design
decisions to appeal to a large audience.

>From what I see, Apple has been able to build a system that has wide
acceptance without a lot of the issues that historically plagued MS
Windows. From over here, I see that to do so, Apple forces everyone to
play on their terms and not much is left for independent expression.
Conversely, Linux builds on the concepts of Unix and is wide open and
allows anyone to implement things as they see fit. This leads to
variety and choice but also a lack of consistency.

For me, the Linux community provides an ever expanding universe of tools
that is only possible on a general computing platform. Working in such
a universe requires more of me than using a more focused system.
Likewise, there have been people that have sold their K3 citing various
factors such as "too much radio" that allude to the K3 providing a wide
range of settings to affect its operation. I liken the K3 to be much
like a general computing operating system. Some hams will much like the
defaults--i.e. staying within the GUI of an OS or not customizing
things--and others will dig in and fiddle with all the options.

Don, use what suits you the best.

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
______________________________________________________________
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Michael D. Adams

Re: Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
> users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
> nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.

I can bring the (understandable) OT rant back a bit closer to
relevance, if not all the way back to on-topic. )

I am a relative newcomer to amateur radio. I also dabbled with Linux
once upon a time (actually, I was acquainted with Linus back in the
early days of Linux).

I can actually see a number of parallels between Linux and amateur
radio, insofar as the challenges interested folks may face when
climbing the learning curve.

In my day job, I'm an actuary. I don't have an electronics or
communications background...or much of a science background at all, in
fact. When it comes to computers and radio, I'm definitely a "power
user" rather than a developer/programmer/builder. In some AR circles,
I would be criticized or ostracized as being a mere "appliance
operator"... and that probably isn't too far wrong.

As an outsider / newcomer, both Linux and amateur radio have fairly
steep learning curves. Most of the material available beyond the
ground-floor bare-bones basics can be confusing, written by people who
assume too-much knowledge and/or are not professional writers of
documentation. Perhaps there's something about both pursuits that
tends to attract people who enjoy "doing" a lot more than "writing
about having done". And, perhaps such people are more prone to either
having a little arrogance about their success, or to having a
preference to spend time with others who have been initiated into the
fraternity, rather than mere muggles.

Honestly, part of the fun of amateur radio to me is that I'm having to
learn a lot from areas outside my traditional areas of
expertise/interest, and I'm enjoying the mental exercise. To be
successful in both pursuits, it is helpful to be a self-starter, to
have a thick skin. It's a heckuva lot easier to make progress in
both Linux and amateur radio, if you can find a few folks willing to
offer some tips.

Perhaps it would be helpful for hams who have struggled with Linux to
keep that frustration in mind when it comes to leaving a few
breadcrumbs around for potential new hams. And remember: if Linux
were easy and more digestible to the mass market, it would be OS/X.
Similarly, if amateur radio were easy and more digestible to the mass
market, it would be CB/FRS/GMRS.

--
Michael D. Adams (AB1OD)
Poquonock, Connecticut | [hidden email]
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