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Freq Onwership

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Bill K9YEQ

Freq Onwership

The ownership issue is what almost caused me to sell all my equipment. But then diversity from my K3S struck the phenomenal chord and I cannot believe how much fun it is. Plus, the 500 watts, helps as well.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ, FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of GRANT YOUNGMAN
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 1:38 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Babies at play as seen on the P3

Sounds like what happens almost anywhere on the bands if you call cq in AM. Apparently all frequencies are now “owned” :-)

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 10/28/2017 8:42 PM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:
>> It looks like Digital SSTV.
>
> The "babies at play" are a group of SSTV operators who think they own a certain piece of 20M SSB. If you dare to call CQ there, even when it's empty and after asking if the frequency is in use, you'll be bombarded by their transmitters running as much power as they can, intentionally interfering with you.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Freq Onwership

I just avoid 20M. Problem solved. There's other bands which respond as
well with fine gentlemen operators, 17M and 30M as examples. If you've
not tried 60M, it is a wonderful relief from the vocabulary found on 40M.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/29/2017 1:47 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

> The ownership issue is what almost caused me to sell all my equipment. But then diversity from my K3S struck the phenomenal chord and I cannot believe how much fun it is. Plus, the 500 watts, helps as well.
>
> 72 & 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ, FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of GRANT YOUNGMAN
> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 1:38 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Babies at play as seen on the P3
>
> Sounds like what happens almost anywhere on the bands if you call cq in AM. Apparently all frequencies are now “owned” :-)
>
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/28/2017 8:42 PM, GRANT YOUNGMAN wrote:
>>> It looks like Digital SSTV.
>> The "babies at play" are a group of SSTV operators who think they own a certain piece of 20M SSB. If you dare to call CQ there, even when it's empty and after asking if the frequency is in use, you'll be bombarded by their transmitters running as much power as they can, intentionally interfering with you.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> Grant NQ5T
> K3 #2091, KX3 #8342
>
>
>
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Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

Re: Freq Onwership

In reply to this post by Bill K9YEQ

Maybe he bought the frequency:
<http://hamhijinks.com/local-man-does-in-fact-own-the-frequency/> :-)

73,
Mitch

Mitch Wolfson DJØQN / K7DX
10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
Skype: mitchwo
USA: Home:+1-239-221-9600 - Mobile:+1-424-288-9171
Germany: Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436

On 29.10.2017 14:47, Bill Johnson wrote:

Dave Sublette

Re: Freq Onwership

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

The issue of who has priority on a given frequency was being debated 60 years ago when I first got on 75 meter AM. It hasn’t changed. It won’t change. The language issue became a problem for me 20 years ago. As a result I gave up phone and went to CW only, for the most part. I also went to headphones because I couldn’t trust what might come out of the speaker when small children and my XYL were listening. A very few obnoxious people ruin it for the vast majority.

I haven’t missed phone.

73,

Dave, K4TO
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just avoid 20M. Problem solved. There's other bands which respond as well with fine gentlemen operators, 17M and 30M as examples. If you've not tried 60M, it is a wonderful relief from the vocabulary found on 40M.
> et/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
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Bill Frantz

Re: Freq Onwership

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Agreed, those bands have nice ops. 160M, the gentleman's band,
also deserves it's name. CW and digital are ways to avoid many
of the (censored) ops. I have avoided voice on 80M because of
the general lack of respect for other ops and the FCC regs.
Perhaps I need to expand my list of bands to avoid using voice on.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/29/17 at 11:54 AM, [hidden email] (Bob McGraw K4TAX) wrote:

>I just avoid 20M. Problem solved. There's other bands which
>respond as well with fine gentlemen operators, 17M and 30M as
>examples. If you've not tried 60M, it is a wonderful relief
>from the vocabulary found on 40M.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | around us, is there any choice | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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k6dgw

Re: Freq Onwership

In reply to this post by Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX

and two of the four commenters appear to have bought the story. [:-)

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/29/2017 12:04 PM, Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX wrote:

> Maybe he bought the frequency:
> <http://hamhijinks.com/local-man-does-in-fact-own-the-frequency/> :-)
>
> 73,
> Mitch
>
> Mitch Wolfson DJØQN / K7DX
> 10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
> Skype: mitchwo
> USA: Home:+1-239-221-9600 - Mobile:+1-424-288-9171
> Germany: Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
>
> On 29.10.2017 14:47, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> The ownership issue is what almost caused me to sell all my
>> equipment. But then diversity from my K3S struck the phenomenal
>> chord and I cannot believe how much fun it is. Plus, the 500 watts,
>> helps as well.
>>
>> 72 & 73,
>> Bill
>> K9YEQ, FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.

Joe K2UF

Re: Freq Onwership

As long as they don't think it's a good idea inside the DC beltway (UGHHH).

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Freq Onwership

and two of the four commenters appear to have bought the story. [:-)

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/29/2017 12:04 PM, Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX wrote:

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Michael Walker

Re: Freq Onwership

In reply to this post by k6dgw

The frequency ownership is a farce of course.

I bet it was generated on April 1. LOL

Regardless, RF know no boarders and it has no bearing over me even if it
was legal.

mike va3mw

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Joe K2UF <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As long as they don't think it's a good idea inside the DC beltway (UGHHH).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen
> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:51 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Freq Onwership
>
> and two of the four commenters appear to have bought the story. [:-)
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 10/29/2017 12:04 PM, Mitch Wolfson, DJØQN / K7DX wrote:
> > Maybe he bought the frequency:
> > <http://hamhijinks.com/local-man-does-in-fact-own-the-frequency/> :-)
> >
> > 73,
> > Mitch
> >
> > Mitch Wolfson DJØQN / K7DX
> > 10285 Boca Cir, Naples, FL 34109
> > Skype: mitchwo
> > USA: Home:+1-239-221-9600 - Mobile:+1-424-288-9171
> > Germany: Home:+49 89 32152700 - Mobile:+49 172 8374436
> >
> > On 29.10.2017 14:47, Bill Johnson wrote:
> >> The ownership issue is what almost caused me to sell all my
> >> equipment. But then diversity from my K3S struck the phenomenal
> >> chord and I cannot believe how much fun it is. Plus, the 500 watts,
> >> helps as well.
> >>
> >> 72 & 73,
> >> Bill
> >> K9YEQ, FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500, W2, etc.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> delivered to [hidden email]
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>
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: Freq Onwership

Is that Canadian for "borders"?

On 10/29/2017 2:10 PM, Michael Walker wrote:
> The frequency ownership is a farce of course.
>
> I bet it was generated on April 1. LOL
>
> Regardless, RF know no boarders and it has no bearing over me even if it
> was legal.
>
> mike va3mw
>

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Dave Heil

Re: Freq Onwership

In reply to this post by Michael Walker

Oh? Listen to 1850 during a contest. It doesn't matter which mode.

Dave K8MN

On 29-Oct-17 21:10, Michael Walker wrote:
> The frequency ownership is a farce of course.
>
> I bet it was generated on April 1. LOL
>
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Jim Brown-10

The Gentlemen's Band

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

On 10/29/2017 12:21 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> Agreed, those bands have nice ops. 160M, the gentleman's band, also
> deserves it's name. CW and digital are ways to avoid many of the
> (censored) ops.

While the OT CW ops on 160 still think it's the gentleman's band, a
recent long thread on the Topband reflector has proved that to be dead
wrong. The topic was the invasion of 160M by WSJT modes in the form of
FT8. It doesn't seem to matter that the mode takes up only about 2 kHz,
it's simply that it's not CW!

Bear in mind that these are guys who never call CQ, never answer a CQ
unless it's a new entity, and many of them have some of the dirtiest CW
rigs known to man. Far be it from them to respond to the weak CQ of a
new CW op, who, after a few nights of this, gives up on the "gentleman's
band."

By contrast, consider JT65 on 160M, which the "gentlemen" don't even
know is there, but which on a typical evening last winter had 40 times
more activity than CW (on a typical night, I rarely saw more than a
single CW signal on my P3, and a few SSB ragchews. Except for occasional
contests, CW on 160 is almost non-existent!

Last season, beginning in late Nov, I started monitoring JT65 on 160,
hoping to work WV, SC, and VT, the last three states I need for CW QRP
on that band. Within a few weeks, a sked yielded WV. Over the next few
months, I let WSJT-X run all night and next morning, put the calls of
all the stations I decoded into a spreadsheet. By the time I stopped
doing that in early spring, I had logged more than 950 calls in all
states except VT, most VE provinces, all continents except Antarctica,
and about 20 countries. On a typical night I logged more than 50 stations.

The "gentlemen" most recently have gotten their tit in wringer about
FT8. They feel that FT8 and JT65 devalues their 50+ years of DXCC
chasing on the band, on CW, the only mode that real gentlemen operate,
and ignoring the fact that some with the largest DXCC totals have
achieved them by combining their operations from locations on the east
coast and west of the Rockies. Earlier attempts to work RTTY on the band
were pounded into oblivion.

73, Jim K9YC

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w0mu

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

Well said.

Over 100 of my 700 and growing FT8 contacts have been on 160. OH
NO! Ham radio is doomed. <smirk> It seems that FT8 users are about the
only using the band. I might have 3 DX contacts. I am certain that
300 countries is going to be a long long adventure for FT8 on 160. I
doubt there will be an OT op still alive when or it if happens.

W0MU

On 10/29/2017 5:19 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 10/29/2017 12:21 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> Agreed, those bands have nice ops. 160M, the gentleman's band, also
>> deserves it's name. CW and digital are ways to avoid many of the
>> (censored) ops.
>
> While the OT CW ops on 160 still think it's the gentleman's band, a
> recent long thread on the Topband reflector has proved that to be dead
> wrong. The topic was the invasion of 160M by WSJT modes in the form of
> FT8. It doesn't seem to matter that the mode takes up only about 2
> kHz, it's simply that it's not CW!
>
> Bear in mind that these are guys who never call CQ, never answer a CQ
> unless it's a new entity, and many of them have some of the dirtiest
> CW rigs known to man. Far be it from them to respond to the weak CQ of
> a new CW op, who, after a few nights of this, gives up on the
> "gentleman's band."
>
> By contrast, consider JT65 on 160M, which the "gentlemen" don't even
> know is there, but which on a typical evening last winter had 40 times
> more activity than CW (on a typical night, I rarely saw more than a
> single CW signal on my P3, and a few SSB ragchews. Except for
> occasional contests, CW on 160 is almost non-existent!
>
> Last season, beginning in late Nov, I started monitoring JT65 on 160,
> hoping to work WV, SC, and VT, the last three states I need for CW QRP
> on that band. Within a few weeks, a sked yielded WV. Over the next few
> months, I let WSJT-X run all night and next morning, put the calls of
> all the stations I decoded into a spreadsheet. By the time I stopped
> doing that in early spring, I had logged more than 950 calls in all
> states except VT, most VE provinces, all continents except Antarctica,
> and about 20 countries. On a typical night I logged more than 50
> stations.
>
> The "gentlemen" most recently have gotten their tit in wringer about
> FT8. They feel that FT8 and JT65 devalues their 50+ years of DXCC
> chasing on the band, on CW, the only mode that real gentlemen operate,
> and ignoring the fact that some with the largest DXCC totals have
> achieved them by combining their operations from locations on the east
> coast and west of the Rockies. Earlier attempts to work RTTY on the
> band were pounded into oblivion.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Richard Lamont

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On 29/10/17 23:19, Jim Brown wrote:

> The "gentlemen" most recently have gotten their tit in wringer about
> FT8.

When CW came along, the spark operators said is was the end of amateur
radio as we know it.

When AM came along, the CW operators said it was the end of amateur
radio as we know it.

When SSB came along, the AM operators said it was the end of amateur
radio as we know it.

Plus ça change . . .

73,
Richard G4DYA
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Edward R Cole

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Jim,

Same thing has happened on 2m eme. The CW bunch debunk use of JT65
for making contacts. But it apparently is working so well that 95%
of eme activity on 2m is digital with maybe two dozen CW operators
left worldwide. Before JT showed up in early 2000's eme activity was
dropping off. Now one can work 2m eme almost every day of the month
with possibly 2,000+ stations worldwide.

It is 100% used on 6m-eme, and slowly gaining in popularity on higher bands.

For HF obviously digital is a small piece of the action, as it should
be, since signals are frequently strong enough for CW or SSB. But
when prop drops the new digital modes will get thru. With lower sun
spot cycles forecast this will likely keep activity going when its
difficult for CW/SSB.

Excellent articles in Oct. and Nov. QST explaining the various new
digital modes.

As has happened every time a new mode gets a start there is the
question of where in the band is best fits. Time will sort that out.

I expect there will be much discussion on how the 630m band is used.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

In reply to this post by w0mu

Unfortunately, they were using it over the weekend and covering up some good DX
working the SSB contest. They definitely weren't the only users of the band.

Wes N7WS

On 10/29/2017 8:33 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> It seems that FT8 users are about the only using the band.

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Deni F5VJC

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

We Do These Things Not Because They Are Easy But Because They Are Hard

JFK

On 30 October 2017 at 10:35, Edward R Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Same thing has happened on 2m eme. The CW bunch debunk use of JT65 for
> making contacts. But it apparently is working so well that 95% of eme
> activity on 2m is digital with maybe two dozen CW operators left
> worldwide. Before JT showed up in early 2000's eme activity was dropping
> off. Now one can work 2m eme almost every day of the month with possibly
> 2,000+ stations worldwide.
>
> It is 100% used on 6m-eme, and slowly gaining in popularity on higher
> bands.
>
> For HF obviously digital is a small piece of the action, as it should be,
> since signals are frequently strong enough for CW or SSB. But when prop
> drops the new digital modes will get thru. With lower sun spot cycles
> forecast this will likely keep activity going when its difficult for CW/SSB.
>
> Excellent articles in Oct. and Nov. QST explaining the various new digital
> modes.
>
> As has happened every time a new mode gets a start there is the question
> of where in the band is best fits. Time will sort that out.
>
> I expect there will be much discussion on how the 630m band is used.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

w0mu

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Because the DX was not smart enough to move 2 kc away from 1840? Wow!

On 10/30/2017 6:37 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

> Unfortunately, they were using it over the weekend and covering up
> some good DX working the SSB contest. They definitely weren't the only
> users of the band.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
>
> On 10/29/2017 8:33 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
>> It seems that FT8 users are about the only using the band.
>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: The Gentlemen's Band

Administrator

Folks - Thread closed. Both too many posts and the topic is outside of the list guidelines.

In general complaining about others and amateur radio policy discussions are inappropriate on the Elecraft list. Also, they generate way too much volume for a single topic on the list and cause email overload for most of our readers. Please take these topics to other forums or to direct email.

73,
Eric
List Moderator etc.
elecraft.com
_..._

> On Oct 30, 2017, at 7:52 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Because the DX was not smart enough to move 2 kc away from 1840? Wow!
>
>
>> On 10/30/2017 6:37 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>> Unfortunately, they were using it over the weekend and covering up some good DX working the SSB contest. They definitely weren't the only users of the band.
>>
>> Wes N7WS
>>
>>
>>> On 10/29/2017 8:33 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
>>> It seems that FT8 users are about the only using the band.
>>
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