Fw: Interfacing K3 to TenTec QSK Amplifiers/AutomaticAntenna Tuner

[Tim Heasman]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Heasman" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Interfacing K3 to TenTec QSK
Amplifiers/AutomaticAntenna Tuner

> Hi All,
>
> Connect a keyer to key in on the Titan and use key out from the Titan to
> key the K2.  There will be no timing problems doing it that way.
>
> 73
>
> Tim
>
> gm4lmh
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Ben Horton" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Interfacing K3 to TenTec QSK
> Amplifiers/AutomaticAntenna Tuner
>
>
>> Please post answers to the list .
>>
>> I'm hopeful to get a Ten Tec Titan II model 416 interfaced to a K2 before
>> the CQWW CW contest.  So information on the below combination may also be
>> helpful to me.  Unless someone has experience with my combination.
>> Information on it would be appreciated!!
>>
>> I'd sure miss the Break-In operation after years with it on my TS930 &
>> SB220 or Ameritron AL811 with QSK5( used on 160 only).
>>
>> Thanks....
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob
>> K2TK
>>
>> Ben Horton wrote:
>>
>>> After completing my new K3 I am now anxious to interface it to my TenTec
>>> Titan model 425,  Hercules II model 420, and Automatic Antenna Coupler
>>> model 253. Of course with the two amplifiers I have built a black box
>>> switching unit that will only allow one amplifier to be in the RF/keying
>>> chain at any given time.  Has anyone interfaced the TenTec amplifiers or
>>> the TenTec Antenna coupler to the K3 utilizing the unique
>>> "key-in/key-out" technique particular to TenTec QSK operation?
>>>
>>> Please note that QSK operation is my main concern in interfacing these
>>> units together.
>>>
>>> Ben,  K5EX
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Don Wilhelm-4]

Tim,

That *may* be OK, but I would check the timing carefully before
declaring it good.  If the circuits in the amp have any delay, it can
cause problems with the keying element lengths.

If there is no keying delay, then it will work well because the amp can
kill the keying to the K2/K3 if it detects any problem.

Sorry for the note of pessimism, but I don't have the details of the
TenTec amplifiers available, and I mention this only as a cautionary
statement.

The K2 and K3 do delay RF generation to allow the amplifier relays to
switch.  In the K3 that time is adjustable via the menu - it is fixed at
12 to 15 ms in the K2.  All but the slower amplifier relays will switch
in 10 to 12 ms, so hot switching is not normally a problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tim Heasman wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Heasman"
> <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Interfacing K3 to TenTec QSK
> Amplifiers/AutomaticAntenna Tuner
>
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Connect a keyer to key in on the Titan and use key out from the Titan
>> to key the K2.  There will be no timing problems doing it that way.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> gm4lmh
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Tim Heasman]

Don,

That is the method in the Titan I handbook for use with transceivers without
a keying loop like the later Ten Tecs.  This method worked ok with my old
Corsair II.  With the cost of the tubes I was ultra careful.  Have not tried
the Titan with the K3 as yet.

73

Tim
gm4lmh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Tim Heasman" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Elecraft] Interfacing K3 to TenTec QSK
Amplifiers/AutomaticAntenna Tuner

> Tim,
>
> That *may* be OK, but I would check the timing carefully before declaring
> it good.  If the circuits in the amp have any delay, it can cause problems
> with the keying element lengths.
>
> If there is no keying delay, then it will work well because the amp can
> kill the keying to the K2/K3 if it detects any problem.
>
> Sorry for the note of pessimism, but I don't have the details of the
> TenTec amplifiers available, and I mention this only as a cautionary
> statement.
>
> The K2 and K3 do delay RF generation to allow the amplifier relays to
> switch.  In the K3 that time is adjustable via the menu - it is fixed at
> 12 to 15 ms in the K2.  All but the slower amplifier relays will switch in
> 10 to 12 ms, so hot switching is not normally a problem.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Jim Brown-10]

On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:23:10 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:

>Sorry for the note of pessimism, but I don't have the details of the
>TenTec amplifiers available, and I mention this only as a cautionary
>statement.

There is NOTHING wrong with Ten Tec's method of keying the amp and
letting the amp key the radio. I did this for years with a wide variety
of transceivers including the K2, TS850, Omni V, and FT1000MP, and I
always ran full QSK with great sounding CW. It does the proper timing to
make CW sound great (remember, Al Kahn, K4FW, the founder of Ten Tec was
a CW man) and prevent hot switching at the amp with virtually any
transceiver.

When I bought the K3, I learned that it had the delay circuits that made
the complexity of the Ten Tec circuitry un-necessary, and I subsequently
learned from K6XX that the MP family does too, so that's the way I run
the amp now with those radios.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Phil Salas]

"...If the circuits in the amp have any delay, it can cause problems with
the keying element lengths...."

Most of the big QSK amps use vacuum relays, which switch in typically 5-8ms
(or faster with speed-up circuits).  Some of the newer solid-styate amps
(THP and SPE) use high speed power relays that switch in less than 10ms.

I recently modified my ALS-600 to run QSK using inexpensive signal relays
that switch in 5ms.   As part of this exercise, I looked at a number of
radios to see what their "amp enable-to-RF output" delay was.  I measured my
IC-706MKIIG and found it to be about 13ms.  An IC-7000 I had for a short
time measured about 8ms.  New Kenwoods can be set for 10ms, and new TenTecs
and Yaesus are 15ms.  And, of course the K3 is 8ms minimum.  So - virtually
all current transceivers have a greater delay than the switching times of
available QSK amplifiers.  I.e., there should be no problem directly keying
the key line of the QSK amplifier with the radio - and especially with the
K3 where you can increase the 8ms delay if needed.

Phil - AD5X

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com