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Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

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Dave Hachadorian

Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

The REALLY easy way to use CW Skimmer is to use one or more of
the excellent public skimmers available on the internet:
http://www.reversebeacon.net/

The good ones are highly accurate, and cover all bands at once,
using special receivers, preamps, and antennas. In your general
neighborhood, N4ZR, W3LPL, K3MM, and K3LR come to mind. Maybe
there are others even closer to you.

Here's a little tutorial describing the general procedure, using
a specific example:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2011-November/007916.html

If you do want to make your own skimmer based on a K3, the KXV3
is a must, but the K3 will still only be able to do one band at a
time, and will not work while you are transmitting.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, Arizona

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:13 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and CW Skimmer

I am getting ready to order a K3 and want to be able to use CW
Skimmer. I believe I need to order the KXV3. Here is where I
get
"lost". It appears as though LP-Pan might be the easiest way
but
requires the LP-Pan and a high quality sound card. There doesn't
appear to be an easy way using the P3?

Since I am starting from scratch what is the best solution to
allow me to
get a K3 to work with CW Skimmer?

73,

Tom
KQ5S

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KQ5S

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

Thanks Dave.
I worked at YPG and left there in 2009. Can't say I miss it much. :-)

Tom

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The REALLY easy way to use CW Skimmer is to use one or more of
> the excellent public skimmers available on the internet:
> http://www.reversebeacon.net/
>
> The good ones are highly accurate, and cover all bands at once,
> using special receivers, preamps, and antennas. In your general
> neighborhood, N4ZR, W3LPL, K3MM, and K3LR come to mind. Maybe
> there are others even closer to you.
>
> Here's a little tutorial describing the general procedure, using
> a specific example:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/aocc/2011-November/007916.html
>
> If you do want to make your own skimmer based on a K3, the KXV3
> is a must, but the K3 will still only be able to do one band at a
> time, and will not work while you are transmitting.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, Arizona
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:13 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 and CW Skimmer
>
> I am getting ready to order a K3 and want to be able to use CW
> Skimmer. I believe I need to order the KXV3. Here is where I
> get
> "lost". It appears as though LP-Pan might be the easiest way
> but
> requires the LP-Pan and a high quality sound card. There doesn't
> appear to be an easy way using the P3?
>
> Since I am starting from scratch what is the best solution to
> allow me to
> get a K3 to work with CW Skimmer?
>
> 73,
>
> Tom
> KQ5S
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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KQ5S

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian

I looked at this. The reason I want to use SKIMMER is to help locate
where an OP is listening. By having my own SKIMMER I am able to see
599 or a call sign almost instantly and can click on the call or 599
and QSY to where it OP is listening (a little RIT helps to move off
the exact frequency). The RBN only shows calls and there is the
obvious internet latency. I am not sure this would work for my
intended purposes.

Tom

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Dave Hachadorian <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bill W4ZV

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

KQ5S wrote

I looked at this. The reason I want to use SKIMMER is to help locate
where an OP is listening. By having my own SKIMMER I am able to see
599 or a call sign almost instantly and can click on the call or 599
and QSY to where it OP is listening (a little RIT helps to move off
the exact frequency). The RBN only shows calls and there is the
obvious internet latency. I am not sure this would work for my
intended purposes.

That's exactly how I use Skimmer for pileup busting. You need the following:

1. K3 with KXV3 and KRX3.
2. LP-PAN ~$200...probably don't need the preamp option.
3. LP-Bridge free...allows running Skimmer and N1MM simultaneously
3. CW Skimmer software $75
4. A decent soundcard $100...see http://www.telepostinc.com/soundcards.html
5. P4 2.5 GHz computer...mine cost $90 on eBay.

You do NOT need:

HamRadioDeluxe
PowerSDR
NaP3 (I haven't tried it but it's not necessary for what you described)

CW Skimmer includes OmniRig which is all that's needed to drive the K3 directly (none of the above is needed).

The only limitation is that you're limited to 24 kHz bandwidth, which is a limit Alex VE3NEA imposes on the "Softrock on IF" mode. However I haven't found any pileups wider than 24 kHz! You do need to set the Sub RX on the DX station because Skimmer only sees IF OUT for Main and because the K3 always transmits on Main (VFO A). The procedure is:

1. Tune in the DX station. If you prefer using the Main knob, double tap A>B to copy everything to the Sub RX. If you want to listen to the pileup and the DX station simultaneously you can set L-R MIX audio options in CONFIG. I use a Pileup Buster Macro to set everything up with a single button press.
2. Next set Main (VFO A) to the approximate center of the pileup. Skimmer will then see +/- 12 kHz around VFO A.
3. Listen to the DX station. When he answers N6KR, look for the "N6KR 599" decoder dot on the display.
4. Click the dot and you're ready to transmit. I usually crank in ~50 Hz XIT so I'm not dead zero beat with others doing the same thing. :-)

Believe it or not, I've actually busted some huge pileups without even listening to them. One I recall vividly was the ST0R pileup on 160 in August.

73, Bill

KQ5S

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

Thanks Bill. Seems like we have the same operating style. Is the
second receiver necessary? Why not listen to the DX station on VFO B
and follow the pile up on VFO A. I guess if you do it my way you will
be able to see 12 khz above the DX station?

Tom

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> KQ5S wrote
>>
>> I looked at this. The reason I want to use SKIMMER is to help locate
>> where an OP is listening. By having my own SKIMMER I am able to see
>> 599 or a call sign almost instantly and can click on the call or 599
>> and QSY to where it OP is listening (a little RIT helps to move off
>> the exact frequency). The RBN only shows calls and there is the
>> obvious internet latency. I am not sure this would work for my
>> intended purposes.
>>
>
> That's exactly how I use Skimmer for pileup busting. You need the
> following:
>
> 1. K3 with KXV3 and KRX3.
> 2. LP-PAN ~$200...probably don't need the preamp option.
> 3. LP-Bridge free...allows running Skimmer and N1MM simultaneously
> 3. CW Skimmer software $75
> 4. A decent soundcard $100...see http://www.telepostinc.com/soundcards.html
> 5. P4 2.5 GHz computer...mine cost $90 on eBay.
>
> You do NOT need:
>
> HamRadioDeluxe
> PowerSDR
> NaP3 (I haven't tried it but it's not necessary for what you described)
>
> CW Skimmer includes OmniRig which is all that's needed to drive the K3
> directly (none of the above is needed).
>
> The only limitation is that you're limited to 24 kHz bandwidth, which is a
> limit Alex VE3NEA imposes on the "Softrock on IF" mode. However I haven't
> found any pileups wider than 24 kHz! You do need to set the Sub RX on the
> DX station because Skimmer only sees IF OUT for Main and because the K3
> always transmits on Main (VFO A). The procedure is:
>
> 1. Tune in the DX station. If you prefer using the Main knob, double tap
> A>B to copy everything to the Sub RX. If you want to listen to the pileup
> and the DX station simultaneously you can set L-R MIX audio options in
> CONFIG. I use a Pileup Buster Macro to set everything up with a single
> button press.
> 2. Next set Main (VFO A) to the approximate center of the pileup. Skimmer
> will then see +/- 12 kHz around VFO A.
> 3. Listen to the DX station. When he answers N6KR, look for the "N6KR 599"
> decoder dot on the display.
> 4. Click the dot and you're ready to transmit. I usually crank in ~50 Hz
> XIT so I'm not dead zero beat with others doing the same thing. :-)
>
> Believe it or not, I've actually busted some huge pileups without even
> listening to them. One I recall vividly was the ST0R pileup on 160 in
> August.
>
> 73, Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Fw-K3-and-CW-Skimmer-tp7303067p7303281.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill W4ZV

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

I think it would work without the KRX3 if you don't mind not simultaneously monitoring the pileup and your TX frequency. However I've not tried that myself since I already had the KRX3. But as I said before, it is possible to only use the Skimmer display to place your TX on the last station worked without even listening to the pileup, so it should work without a KRX3 if you're comfortable with that idea.

The key is that, without any K3 hardware or OmniRig INI modifications, the K3's IF OUT tracks VFO A and OmniRig controls VFO A. Therefore, if you want Skimmer's 24 kHz span centered on the pileup and want OmniRIg to control your TX, you must always transmit on VFO A and receive the DX station on VFO B. I'm not sure I understood your "my way" comment below but hopefully this clarifies my poor wording previously.

BTW N2QT has documented both a hardware mod to add an IF OUT to the KRX3 as well as modifying OmniRig's INI file to control the KRX3. This is in the files section of the K3 Yahoo Group's files section below but you may need to join the group to view it:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elecraft_K3/files/KRX3_IF_Out/

73, Bill

KQ5S wrote

Thanks Bill. Seems like we have the same operating style. Is the
second receiver necessary? Why not listen to the DX station on VFO B
and follow the pile up on VFO A. I guess if you do it my way you will
be able to see 12 khz above the DX station?

Tom

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> KQ5S wrote
>>
>> I looked at this. The reason I want to use SKIMMER is to help locate
>> where an OP is listening. By having my own SKIMMER I am able to see
>> 599 or a call sign almost instantly and can click on the call or 599
>> and QSY to where it OP is listening (a little RIT helps to move off
>> the exact frequency). The RBN only shows calls and there is the
>> obvious internet latency. I am not sure this would work for my
>> intended purposes.
>>
>
> That's exactly how I use Skimmer for pileup busting. You need the
> following:
>
> 1. K3 with KXV3 and KRX3.
> 2. LP-PAN ~$200...probably don't need the preamp option.
> 3. LP-Bridge free...allows running Skimmer and N1MM simultaneously
> 3. CW Skimmer software $75
> 4. A decent soundcard $100...see http://www.telepostinc.com/soundcards.html
> 5. P4 2.5 GHz computer...mine cost $90 on eBay.
>
> You do NOT need:
>
> HamRadioDeluxe
> PowerSDR
> NaP3 (I haven't tried it but it's not necessary for what you described)
>
> CW Skimmer includes OmniRig which is all that's needed to drive the K3
> directly (none of the above is needed).
>
> The only limitation is that you're limited to 24 kHz bandwidth, which is a
> limit Alex VE3NEA imposes on the "Softrock on IF" mode. However I haven't
> found any pileups wider than 24 kHz! You do need to set the Sub RX on the
> DX station because Skimmer only sees IF OUT for Main and because the K3
> always transmits on Main (VFO A). The procedure is:
>
> 1. Tune in the DX station. If you prefer using the Main knob, double tap
> A>B to copy everything to the Sub RX. If you want to listen to the pileup
> and the DX station simultaneously you can set L-R MIX audio options in
> CONFIG. I use a Pileup Buster Macro to set everything up with a single
> button press.
> 2. Next set Main (VFO A) to the approximate center of the pileup. Skimmer
> will then see +/- 12 kHz around VFO A.
> 3. Listen to the DX station. When he answers N6KR, look for the "N6KR 599"
> decoder dot on the display.
> 4. Click the dot and you're ready to transmit. I usually crank in ~50 Hz
> XIT so I'm not dead zero beat with others doing the same thing. :-)
>
> Believe it or not, I've actually busted some huge pileups without even
> listening to them. One I recall vividly was the ST0R pileup on 160 in
> August.
>
> 73, Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Fw-K3-and-CW-Skimmer-tp7303067p7303281.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

David Gilbert

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

Even more useful in my opinion, the N2QT hardware mod allows you to
monitor the activity on another band ... subject of course to the K3 low
pass filter considerations. I never understood why Elecraft didn't
provide for that capability, or why they've never subsequently offered a
mod to do it. It seemed especially odd not to have that feature once
the P3 became available.

Dave AB7E

On 2/20/2012 9:18 PM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

> I think it would work without the KRX3 if you don't mind not simultaneously
> monitoring the pileup and your TX frequency. However I've not tried that
> myself since I already had the KRX3. But as I said before, it is possible
> to only use the Skimmer display to place your TX on the last station worked
> without even listening to the pileup, so it should work without a KRX3 if
> you're comfortable with that idea.
>
> The key is that, without any K3 hardware or OmniRig INI modifications, the
> K3's IF OUT tracks VFO A and OmniRig controls VFO A. Therefore, if you want
> Skimmer's 24 kHz span centered on the pileup and want OmniRIg to control
> your TX, you must always transmit on VFO A and receive the DX station on VFO
> B. I'm not sure I understood your "my way" comment below but hopefully this
> clarifies my poor wording previously.
>
> BTW N2QT has documented both a hardware mod to add an IF OUT to the KRX3 as
> well as modifying OmniRig's INI file to control the KRX3. This is in the
> files section of the K3 Yahoo Group's files section below but you may need
> to join the group to view it:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Elecraft_K3/files/KRX3_IF_Out/
>
> 73, Bill
>
> www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill W4ZV

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

David Gilbert wrote

Even more useful in my opinion, the N2QT hardware mod allows you to
monitor the activity on another band ... subject of course to the K3 low
pass filter considerations. I never understood why Elecraft didn't
provide for that capability, or why they've never subsequently offered a
mod to do it. It seemed especially odd not to have that feature once
the P3 became available.

It's a marketing decision. There's a limited market for adding IF OUT to the KRX3 versus simply buying another K3 and doing true SO2R. The more complexity and cost you add, the smaller the potential market. Elecraft has so much low hanging fruit to pick with their limited engineering resources that they don't need to chase niche markets.

If I was doing SO2R (and didn't need diversity for the low bands), I'd configure 2 basic K3s with KXV3 and one CW filter each. If you're clever you can find recent units for <$1600 (K3/100+KXV3+filter)...or about the same as a new TS-590S. I recently bought a 2011 unit with that invested by deconfiguring many options I didn't need. IMHO this is preferable for SO2R contesting versus one K3 loaded with everything.

So far Elecraft has not made many bad marketing decisions. When and if they do a K4, I hope they don't fall victim to the FT9000/IC7800 Swiss knife mentality. I doubt that will happen as long as they keep their modularity mindset.

While on this topic, here's a marketing hint for folks selling K3s loaded with whistles and bells. Deconfigure most of your options and sell them separately. You'll address a much wider market and get higher prices than if you attempt to force a more limited market to buy the exact configuration you have.

73, Bill W4ZV

David Gilbert

Re: Fw: K3 and CW Skimmer

Hi, Bill.

Yeah, I understand all that, but it just seems that having a second
receiver in the K3 but not being able to monitor it with the P3 sounds
like more of an oversight than simply the avoidance of a niche market.
After all, the N2QT modification is almost negligible in terms of cost,
and the software mod to CW Skimmer is so simple that even I was able to
figure it out before I ever saw the N2QT mod ... and I'm almost
illiterate software-wise. I'd bet that most people with a KRX3 and a P3
wish they were capable of working together.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 2/21/2012 4:49 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

> David Gilbert wrote
>> Even more useful in my opinion, the N2QT hardware mod allows you to
>> monitor the activity on another band ... subject of course to the K3 low
>> pass filter considerations. I never understood why Elecraft didn't
>> provide for that capability, or why they've never subsequently offered a
>> mod to do it. It seemed especially odd not to have that feature once
>> the P3 became available.
>>
> It's a marketing decision. There's a limited market for adding IF OUT to
> the KRX3 versus simply buying another K3 and doing true SO2R. The more
> complexity and cost you add, the smaller the potential market. Elecraft has
> so much low hanging fruit to pick with their limited engineering resources
> that they don't need to chase niche markets.
>
> If I was doing SO2R (and didn't need diversity for the low bands), I'd
> configure 2 basic K3s with KXV3 and one CW filter each. If you're clever
> you can find recent units for<$1600 (K3/100+KXV3+filter)...or about the
> same as a new TS-590S. I recently bought a 2011 unit with that invested by
> deconfiguring many options I didn't need. IMHO this is preferable for SO2R
> contesting versus one K3 loaded with everything.
>
> So far Elecraft has not made many bad marketing decisions. When and if they
> do a K4, I hope they don't fall victim to the FT9000/IC7800 Swiss knife
> mentality. I doubt that will happen as long as they keep their modularity
> mindset.
>
> While on this topic, here's a marketing hint for folks selling K3s loaded
> with whistles and bells. Deconfigure most of your options and sell them
> separately. You'll address a much wider market and get higher prices than
> if you attempt to force a more limited market to buy the exact configuration
> you have.
>
> 73, Bill W4ZV
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Fw-K3-and-CW-Skimmer-tp7303067p7304483.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>