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Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

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Brian F. Wruble-2

Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

OK guys. Don't waste time on this. The problem is definitely the router.

I cannot successfully ping my remote router in Maryland (where the remote K3 is) from inside my network here in Key West. I CAN successfully ping it when I am using Verizon with my iPad. I CAN ping anything else I try from inside the network.

Something in the way the router setup is working is preventing some kinds of data from flowing back to me. This was not the case before AT&T's technician set up the static ip addresses.

The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.

Tnx. Happy Holidays.

73,

Brian

--
70 is the new 40.

Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Brian F. Wruble" <[hidden email]>
> Date: December 18, 2013 at 6:13:28 PM EST
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>
> Hi all:
>
> I have had my remote operation working beautifully, with just problems figuring out CW and Digital, but slowly getting there. Sideband has been fine, and I am enjoying ham radio in Key West while operating through my station on Maryland's Eastern Shore.
>
> Then... I turned on the K3/0 a couple hours ago. I heard the sounds of 40M SSB, where I had my most recent QSO. But the dial shows 21.000.00 and mode shown is CW. I can tune, and obviously the distant K3 is tuning, as I can hear the signals change. I can change bands, change modes, go in and out of XMIT. The front panel of the K3/0 never shows a change, just sits there.
>
> One possible clue: I had an AT&T internet tech in today to give me a static ip (external ip) to support my surveillance system. That has not affected any internet functions --- I have email, browser, and comms with the K3. I just don't have feedback from the K3. It seems to me that if I have good internet, then the K3/0 and RemoteRig shouldn't care about the changes, but it is suspiciously coincidental. ........

Brian F. Wruble-2

Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

It works. No idea why, but this morning everything is good, though I still can't ping my MD address from inside my FL network.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Date: December 19, 2013 at 9:27:04 AM EST
> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
>
> OK guys. Don't waste time on this. The problem is definitely the router.
>
> I cannot successfully ping my remote router in Maryland (where the remote K3 is) from inside my network here in Key West. I CAN successfully ping it when I am using Verizon with my iPad. I CAN ping anything else I try from inside the network.
>
> Something in the way the router setup is working is preventing some kinds of data from flowing back to me. This was not the case before AT&T's technician set up the static ip addresses.
>
> The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.
>
> Tnx. Happy Holidays.
>
> 73,
>
> Brian
>
> --
> 70 is the new 40.
>
> Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
> 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
> Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
> eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "Brian F. Wruble" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: December 18, 2013 at 6:13:28 PM EST
>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
>> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> I have had my remote operation working beautifully, with just problems figuring out CW and Digital, but slowly getting there. Sideband has been fine, and I am enjoying ham radio in Key West while operating through my station on Maryland's Eastern Shore.
>>
>> Then... I turned on the K3/0 a couple hours ago. I heard the sounds of 40M SSB, where I had my most recent QSO. But the dial shows 21.000.00 and mode shown is CW. I can tune, and obviously the distant K3 is tuning, as I can hear the signals change. I can change bands, change modes, go in and out of XMIT. The front panel of the K3/0 never shows a change, just sits there.
>>
>> One possible clue: I had an AT&T internet tech in today to give me a static ip (external ip) to support my surveillance system. That has not affected any internet functions --- I have email, browser, and comms with the K3. I just don't have feedback from the K3. It seems to me that if I have good internet, then the K3/0 and RemoteRig shouldn't care about the changes, but it is suspiciously coincidental. ........
>

michael-2

Re: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

Your U-Verse router settings are set to not respond to ping request, you could change the settings in the router to respond to ping request.

73, Michael - N8NOC

K1-4 #3046
K3/10 #6596
KX3 #1573

On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:45 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

It works. No idea why, but this morning everything is good, though I still can't ping my MD address from inside my FL network.

Begin forwarded message:

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Brian F. Wruble-2

Re: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

No, I can ping the U-Verse router. I cannot ping my distant router, where my remotely controlled station is, from within the U-Verse network. I can ping it from outside the U-Verse network. Very weird.

--
70 is the new 40.

Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble

> On Dec 19, 2013, at 1:04 PM, Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Your U-Verse router settings are set to not respond to ping request, you could change the settings in the router to respond to ping request.
>
> 73, Michael - N8NOC
>
> K1-4 #3046
> K3/10 #6596
> KX3 #1573
>
> On Dec 19, 2013, at 9:45 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> It works. No idea why, but this morning everything is good, though I still can't ping my MD address from inside my FL network.
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>> Date: December 19, 2013 at 9:27:04 AM EST
>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
>>
>> OK guys. Don't waste time on this. The problem is definitely the router.
>>
>> I cannot successfully ping my remote router in Maryland (where the remote K3 is) from inside my network here in Key West. I CAN successfully ping it when I am using Verizon with my iPad. I CAN ping anything else I try from inside the network.
>>
>> Something in the way the router setup is working is preventing some kinds of data from flowing back to me. This was not the case before AT&T's technician set up the static ip addresses.
>>
>> The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.
>>
>> Tnx. Happy Holidays.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> 70 is the new 40.
>>
>> Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
>> 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
>> Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
>> eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: "Brian F. Wruble" <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: December 18, 2013 at 6:13:28 PM EST
>>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
>>> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Hi all:
>>>
>>> I have had my remote operation working beautifully, with just problems figuring out CW and Digital, but slowly getting there. Sideband has been fine, and I am enjoying ham radio in Key West while operating through my station on Maryland's Eastern Shore.
>>>
>>> Then... I turned on the K3/0 a couple hours ago. I heard the sounds of 40M SSB, where I had my most recent QSO. But the dial shows 21.000.00 and mode shown is CW. I can tune, and obviously the distant K3 is tuning, as I can hear the signals change. I can change bands, change modes, go in and out of XMIT. The front panel of the K3/0 never shows a change, just sits there.
>>>
>>> One possible clue: I had an AT&T internet tech in today to give me a static ip (external ip) to support my surveillance system. That has not affected any internet functions --- I have email, browser, and comms with the K3. I just don't have feedback from the K3. It seems to me that if I have good internet, then the K3/0 and RemoteRig shouldn't care about the changes, but it is suspiciously coincidental. ........
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Brian F. Wruble-2

Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

In reply to this post by Brian F. Wruble-2

Not working again. Dang router.

The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I
find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this
particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.

*Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.

*70 is the new 40.*
*
Mail: 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040-4077
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Brian F. Wruble-2

Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

I apologize for all these posts. Hopefully, I am done.

For those who plan on upgrading to ATT U-Verse ADSL internet --- it is
clear the Motorola NVG510 router is a problem. There are pages upon pages
of posts on various forums about difficulties created by the change to this
modem. Mine worked fine until a tech came to upgrade to a static ip
address so some surveillance cameras would work. After that, my K3/0 to K3
hookup using RemoteRig was in kind of a "single duplex mode" it appeared
to carry audio both ways, control signals from the K3/0 to the K3, but no
data fed back to the K3/0 telling me the frequency, mode, etc of the
distant K3. This came along with some truly weird other symptoms too
numerous to list.

Early today, it started working on its own. By afternoon it was back to
"single duplex" kind of behavior. Hopefully, I may have just solved that
by plugging the RemoteRig into a downstream daisy-chained standard D-Link
wireless router. That will slow my speeds, offsetting some of the benefit
I got by upgrading the internet service in the first place. However, now
if I am on 40 meters, the K3/0 shows a frequency that begins with a "7" :>)
That is progress.

Again, sorry for the bandwidth. Perhaps this will help somebody in the
future.

73 and Happy Holidays to all,

Brian W3BW

*Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.

*70 is the new 40.*
*
Mail: 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040-4077
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brian F. Wruble <[hidden email]>
Date: Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 3:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>

Not working again. Dang router.

The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I
find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this
particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.

*Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.

*70 is the new 40.*
*
Mail: 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040-4077
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Chris Tate - N6WM

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

In reply to this post by Brian F. Wruble-2

I decided to bridge the Uverse router and put in an internal router of my own, the procedure to do this is readily available online.

I have had no problems since I did this, up to and including operating in several contests.

YMMV, but thats what worked for me. The U-verse has been spot on reliable so far with this configuration.

73
Chris
N6WM

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brian F. Wruble [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:45 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

Not working again. Dang router.

The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I
find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this
particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.

*Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.

*70 is the new 40.*
*
Mail: 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040-4077
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6901 - Release Date: 12/08/13
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Brian F. Wruble-2

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND

Yes, I have been reading about that option. I am a bit of a coward in this area, but I'll go there next. May I ask you for help, if I need it? What router did you use internally?

I need at least one fixed "public ip" if that is what they call the external ip. Does the "bridge" provide that or the downstream router?

Brian

Brian

------------------
Brian F. Wruble, CFA
1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447
Key West, FL 33040-4077
PO Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930-0057
eFax 305.768.0278

> On Dec 19, 2013, at 17:14, Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I decided to bridge the Uverse router and put in an internal router of my own, the procedure to do this is readily available online.
>
> I have had no problems since I did this, up to and including operating in several contests.
>
> YMMV, but thats what worked for me. The U-verse has been spot on reliable so far with this configuration.
>
> 73
> Chris
> N6WM
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brian F. Wruble [[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:45 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: [Elecraft] Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue: NEVER MIND
>
> Not working again. Dang router.
>
> The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I
> find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this
> particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.
>
>
>
>
> *Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
>
> *70 is the new 40.*
> *
> Mail: 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040-4077
> Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
> eFax 305.768.0278
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6901 - Release Date: 12/08/13
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Rick Tavan N6XI

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

In reply to this post by Brian F. Wruble-2

FWIW, I have just about completed a transition from slow DSL to moderately
fast cable Internet (30Mb down, 2Mb up on a good day), motivated by the
desire for smoother audio in my K3 Remote setup. In the process, I've
learned more than I ever wanted to know about routers and, perhaps most
important, their control facilities. It may be helpful to you, Brian, and
others. Note that I am not an expert on modern, computer networking. If you
are, you need read no further.

Every router I've used provides a Web browser interface. It's a "Goldilocks
story:" Some are monstrous, truly awful. Some are clean and neat but
limited in functionality. Some are "just right." The cost differences are
immaterial compared to our investments in stations, antennas and remote
control gadgetry. If you find yourself fighting your router, consider a
different one. I don't believe the Internet service providers nail you to
their specific favorite. Mine haven't.

At N6XI Truckee, the monstrous one was a 2wire DSL modem/router. It had all
the capabilities I needed but was a PITA to manage, a truly brain-dead user
interface. The limited one was a Hitron cable modem/router. It was easy to
use but wouldn't let me make some fundamental, boring, convenience changes
and it wouldn't pass the pings from my remote power switch.

So, as of today, I am using a "dumb," DOCSIS-standard cable modem from
Arris sold by my cable company and a nice, modestly priced router from
Linksys, now a Cisco company. The modem is invisible. The router has all
the functions I think I need, nicely arranged in intuitive pages and menus.
As a retired software guy, I would certainly have done some things
differently, but I have no significant complaints. I have spent only an
hour or two inside its pages and I think I'm done. It is a Linksys EA4500
(aka N900), in the middle of a line of routers distinguished mainly by
their throughput characteristics, at least if I understand it. One of its
nicest features is the ability to "Reserve" a DHCP-allocated LAN IP
address. This nails down the addresses of the many remote radio related
pieces. It is different from assigning "static" IP addresses and, I think,
simpler. It also handles port forwarding setup very cleanly and provides a
clean, editable list of on-LAN devices. I highly recommend it even though
I've never worked for Linksys or Cisco.

GL & 73,

/Rick

On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:27 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>wrote:

> OK guys. Don't waste time on this. The problem is definitely the router.
>
> I cannot successfully ping my remote router in Maryland (where the remote
> K3 is) from inside my network here in Key West. I CAN successfully ping it
> when I am using Verizon with my iPad. I CAN ping anything else I try from
> inside the network.
>
> Something in the way the router setup is working is preventing some kinds
> of data from flowing back to me. This was not the case before AT&T's
> technician set up the static ip addresses.
>
> The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I
> find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this
> particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.
>
> Tnx. Happy Holidays.
>
> 73,
>
> Brian
>
> --
> 70 is the new 40.
>
> Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
> 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
> Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
> eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "Brian F. Wruble" <[hidden email]>
> > Date: December 18, 2013 at 6:13:28 PM EST
> > To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
> > Reply-To: [hidden email]
> >
> > Hi all:
> >
> > I have had my remote operation working beautifully, with just problems
> figuring out CW and Digital, but slowly getting there. Sideband has been
> fine, and I am enjoying ham radio in Key West while operating through my
> station on Maryland's Eastern Shore.
> >
> > Then... I turned on the K3/0 a couple hours ago. I heard the sounds of
> 40M SSB, where I had my most recent QSO. But the dial shows 21.000.00 and
> mode shown is CW. I can tune, and obviously the distant K3 is tuning, as
> I can hear the signals change. I can change bands, change modes, go in and
> out of XMIT. The front panel of the K3/0 never shows a change, just sits
> there.
> >
> > One possible clue: I had an AT&T internet tech in today to give me a
> static ip (external ip) to support my surveillance system. That has not
> affected any internet functions --- I have email, browser, and comms with
> the K3. I just don't have feedback from the K3. It seems to me that if I
> have good internet, then the K3/0 and RemoteRig shouldn't care about the
> changes, but it is suspiciously coincidental. ........
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Alan Bloom

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

This may be the blind leading the blind since I also am not a computer
networking expert, but I've learned a few things in the School of Hard
Knocks.

There are two kinds of static IP addresses. One is assigned to you by
your Internet service provider (ISP) and for which you probably pay
extra. It is the one seen by the outside world in the Internet "cloud."

The other kind is used on your local area network (LAN). Local IP
addresses are not visible from the Internet. Every device on the LAN
has an internal IP address that normally starts with 192.168 and is
assigned by the router. The default is normally that the router assigns
IP addresses automatically, which means the address for a particular
device may not be the same every time you turn the router on. However
there is normally a way for you to assign fixed local IP addresses to
specific devices. (The local devices are specified by their "MAC
address" which is a 48-bit number assigned to the device when it is
manufactured.) You can link a MAC address to a fixed IP address by
accessing one of the router's web pages, but it seems like each model of
router calls the feature something different and provides a different
way to access it. Read the manual.

"Port forwarding" is a way to allow access from the Internet to certain
devices on your local LAN. Remember LAN IP addresses are not visible
from the Internet. Port forwarding assigns a local LAN IP address to a
particular "port" on the external IP address. For example if your
modem/router's external IP is 100.2.3.4 and you assign a device to port
82, you can access it from the Internet at 100.2.3.4:82. For this to
work properly you normally would first have to assign a fixed local IP
to that device.

If you're having trouble finding these features on the router's web
pages, look for the menu for gaming since the main thing people
typically use them for is web-based games.

"Ping" is a computer network utility that allows testing the
connectivity to a particular address. Many routers may have ping
responses disabled by default but you can normally enable them if you
wish. Again, it seems like every router does that a different way.
Look through the menus for the buzzword "ICMP" (Internet Control Message
Protocol).

Alan N1AL

On 12/19/2013 09:01 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote:

> FWIW, I have just about completed a transition from slow DSL to moderately
> fast cable Internet (30Mb down, 2Mb up on a good day), motivated by the
> desire for smoother audio in my K3 Remote setup. In the process, I've
> learned more than I ever wanted to know about routers and, perhaps most
> important, their control facilities. It may be helpful to you, Brian, and
> others. Note that I am not an expert on modern, computer networking. If you
> are, you need read no further.
>
> Every router I've used provides a Web browser interface. It's a "Goldilocks
> story:" Some are monstrous, truly awful. Some are clean and neat but
> limited in functionality. Some are "just right." The cost differences are
> immaterial compared to our investments in stations, antennas and remote
> control gadgetry. If you find yourself fighting your router, consider a
> different one. I don't believe the Internet service providers nail you to
> their specific favorite. Mine haven't.
>
> At N6XI Truckee, the monstrous one was a 2wire DSL modem/router. It had all
> the capabilities I needed but was a PITA to manage, a truly brain-dead user
> interface. The limited one was a Hitron cable modem/router. It was easy to
> use but wouldn't let me make some fundamental, boring, convenience changes
> and it wouldn't pass the pings from my remote power switch.
>
> So, as of today, I am using a "dumb," DOCSIS-standard cable modem from
> Arris sold by my cable company and a nice, modestly priced router from
> Linksys, now a Cisco company. The modem is invisible. The router has all
> the functions I think I need, nicely arranged in intuitive pages and menus.
> As a retired software guy, I would certainly have done some things
> differently, but I have no significant complaints. I have spent only an
> hour or two inside its pages and I think I'm done. It is a Linksys EA4500
> (aka N900), in the middle of a line of routers distinguished mainly by
> their throughput characteristics, at least if I understand it. One of its
> nicest features is the ability to "Reserve" a DHCP-allocated LAN IP
> address. This nails down the addresses of the many remote radio related
> pieces. It is different from assigning "static" IP addresses and, I think,
> simpler. It also handles port forwarding setup very cleanly and provides a
> clean, editable list of on-LAN devices. I highly recommend it even though
> I've never worked for Linksys or Cisco.
>
> GL & 73,
>
> /Rick
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 6:27 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> OK guys. Don't waste time on this. The problem is definitely the router.
>>
>> I cannot successfully ping my remote router in Maryland (where the remote
>> K3 is) from inside my network here in Key West. I CAN successfully ping it
>> when I am using Verizon with my iPad. I CAN ping anything else I try from
>> inside the network.
>>
>> Something in the way the router setup is working is preventing some kinds
>> of data from flowing back to me. This was not the case before AT&T's
>> technician set up the static ip addresses.
>>
>> The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT U-Verse system. On-line, I
>> find many forum threads dealing with idiosyncratic behavior of this
>> particular router. That is what zapped me. Now I have to work out a fix.
>>
>> Tnx. Happy Holidays.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> 70 is the new 40.
>>
>> Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
>> 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
>> Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
>> eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: "Brian F. Wruble" <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: December 18, 2013 at 6:13:28 PM EST
>>> To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
>>> Reply-To: [hidden email]
>>>
>>> Hi all:
>>>
>>> I have had my remote operation working beautifully, with just problems
>> figuring out CW and Digital, but slowly getting there. Sideband has been
>> fine, and I am enjoying ham radio in Key West while operating through my
>> station on Maryland's Eastern Shore.
>>>
>>> Then... I turned on the K3/0 a couple hours ago. I heard the sounds of
>> 40M SSB, where I had my most recent QSO. But the dial shows 21.000.00 and
>> mode shown is CW. I can tune, and obviously the distant K3 is tuning, as
>> I can hear the signals change. I can change bands, change modes, go in and
>> out of XMIT. The front panel of the K3/0 never shows a change, just sits
>> there.
>>>
>>> One possible clue: I had an AT&T internet tech in today to give me a
>> static ip (external ip) to support my surveillance system. That has not
>> affected any internet functions --- I have email, browser, and comms with
>> the K3. I just don't have feedback from the K3. It seems to me that if I
>> have good internet, then the K3/0 and RemoteRig shouldn't care about the
>> changes, but it is suspiciously coincidental. ........
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>

Brian F. Wruble-2

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

Thanks a lot guys. Both of these explanations are excellent.

I have been messing with routers for years, as we live in places that have complicated and multiple structures. I learned a lot from having to daisy-chain routers to get my wifi signals to cover a variety of places. We left New York City for Key West in 2010. In NYC we had Time Warner cable internet, pretty fast when the whole neighborhood wasn't home using it. The beauty of that was the modem was separate from the primary (most upstream) router. I could buy whatever router I wanted, and then run downstream routers, (some with little 500mw rf amps and bigger antennas) off of that one.

I had no problem getting good results throughout our 5 story Manhattan "brownstone" by stringing wires up and down the outside of the building to downstream routers on each floor. I used, with good result, Linksys, D-Link and Netgear.

BTW, not totally OT, it would be great to hear what people have to say about reliability and durability of all three ( or other ) brands. They are equally easy to set up and use, all with nice webpage interfaces,

The AT&T DSL and the more advanced AT&T U-VERSE DSL use routers (2-Wire in the first case, Motorola in the 2nd) that DO NOT separate the modem from the router. I despair of trying to explain the problems this creates to an ATT customer service rep in St. Paul or Bangladesh. There are a gazillion posts on-line from people having problems with the Motorola NVG510. The only time I seriously messed with the 2-wire, before I upgraded to U-Verse service, I lost internet for the whole family for several days. I am tiptoeing around now to avoid a re-run.

Several of the posts said they had solved the NVG510 problems by using that device just as a "bridge" and then putting a regular (maybe Linksys) router behind that to handle all the router functions. I assume "bridge" means essentially a modem only. I'd love to know more about that, but I am terrified to try much more messing with it.

I am familiar with port-forwarding, as you have to port-forward to set up the radio-end RemoteRig for the remotely controlled K3. I also have a very robust remotely controlled Web7 power switch that lets me turn things on and off up at the "big station" in MD that I am remotely controlling. That also requires port-forwarding.

I also leave a PC running in MD on an uninterruptible power supply, and I use that to move my rotor and control the KAT500 if needs be. I have put that on a static ip on the LAN.

The external static ip that I need here in Key West, for which I pay $5 per month extra, is needed for a system of remotely viewable surveillance cameras. Those were installed by our alarm company, and they wanted me to get the static ip. My problems with the K3/0 started after that visit by the ATT technician.

So, unwilling to try the "bridge" approach for fear of really getting screwed up, I tried plugging the RemoteRig Control unit into a downstream ( daisy-chained) router from the NVG510, and the problem went away. I am throwing no parades until this fix proves to be lasting,

What was so bizarre in all this --- i should be able to take the K3/0 plus RemoteRig control box (RRC) to a local Starbucks and get on the air using wifi. I should not have to do more than change network addresses in the RRC. Why the NVG510 isn't similarly blind to the device attaching to it seems illogical. But, nevertheless, once the tech left, having set up 5 static external ip addresses, the RRC and K3/0 would turn on the remote K3, I could hear it, tune it, change modes, filters, key up, etc., but none of the changes made at the radio end were reflected in the front panel of the K3/0. It just sat there saying 21.000.00 CW.

Now, having plugged the RRC in one box downstream, it all works again. Further mysteries remain, but I am going to pretend all is well.

Sorry for this long screed, but I am hoping it will:

A. Help someone else
or
B. Stimulate someone to offer a better fix.

73 to all. Happy Holidays to all.

Brian, W3BW

> On Dec 20, 2013, at 1:02 AM, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This may be the blind leading the blind since I also am not a computer networking expert, but I've learned a few things in the School of Hard Knocks.
>
>
>> On 12/19/2013 09:01 PM, Rick Tavan N6XI wrote:
>> FWIW, I have just about completed a transition from slow DSL to moderately
>> fast cable Internet (30Mb down, 2Mb up on a good day), motivated by the
>> desire for smoother audio in my K3 Remote setup. In the process, I've
>> learned more than I ever wanted to know about routers and, perhaps most
>> important, their control facilities. It may be helpful to you, Brian, and
>> others. Note that I am not an expert on modern, computer networking. If you
>> are, you need read no further
>>
>>> OK guys. Don't waste time on this. The problem is definitely the router.
>>>
>>> I cannot successfully ping my remote router in Maryland (where the remote
>>> K3 is) from inside my network here in Key West. I CAN successfully ping it
>>> when I am using Verizon with my iPad. I CAN ping anything else I try from
>>> inside the network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The router is a Motorola NVG510 used by the ATT
>>>>
>>>> Hi all:
>>>>
>>>> I have had my remote operation working beautifully, with just problems
>>> figuring out CW and Digital, but slowly getting there. Sideband has been
>>> fine, and I am enjoying ham radio in Key West while operating through my
>>> station on Maryland's Eastern Shore.
>>>>
>>>>

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

I ran an internet service provider for a couple of decades.

The sad part of this is that there is a standard solution to all of
this, the same one that works for Skype and BitTorrent.

The radio end needs to send a message to some central server (run by
RemoteRig) that says "I'm on, my 'name' is N1AL" or whatever identifier
seems reasonable.

The server sees the message, gets the apparent public IP from the
header, and records it. The updates have to be every minute or two, but
they can be UDP to minimize bandwidth and connections.

The client (at Starbucks) sends a message to the central server saying
"I want to operate N1AL" and the server says "connect to this IP using
these port numbers."

The next time the station checks in (about half the update interval on
average) the server tells the station "connect to the operator's IP
using these port numbers."

Because the typical firewall opens up circuits for outgoing connections,
the NAT firewall at Starbucks and the NAT firewall at the station both
open the correct ports, thinking that they're connecting out, and not
realizing they're being tricked into allowing a connection in -- it's
okay because it has been coordinated through the central server.

No static IP addresses, no messing with port forwarding, no trying to
get your IT department to let you operate during your lunch break.

There are a few missing details, but that's how most everything else works.

-- Lynn

On 12/20/2013 5:15 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> What was so bizarre in all this --- i should be able to take the K3/0 plus RemoteRig control box (RRC) to a local Starbucks and get on the air using wifi.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Chris Tate - N6WM

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

In reply to this post by Brian F. Wruble-2

here is a you tube video to bridge your uverse router to use your own device....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYROv9Fjis

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email] [[hidden email]]
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 5:15 AM
To: Alan Bloom
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

Thanks a lot guys. Both of these explanations are excellent.

I have been messing with routers for years, as we live in places that have complicated and multiple structures. I learned a lot from having to daisy-chain routers to get my wifi signals to cover a variety of places. We left New York City for Key West in 2010. In NYC we had Time Warner cable internet, pretty fast when the whole neighborhood wasn't home using it. The beauty of that was the modem was separate from the primary (most upstream) router. I could buy whatever router I wanted, and then run downstream routers, (some with little 500mw rf amps and bigger antennas) off of that one.

I had no problem getting good results throughout our 5 story Manhattan "brownstone" by stringing wires up and down the outside of the building to downstream routers on each floor. I used, with good result, Linksys, D-Link and Netgear.

BTW, not totally OT, it would be great to hear what people have to say about reliability and durability of all three ( or other ) brands. They are equally easy to set up and use, all with nice webpage interfaces,

The AT&T DSL and the more advanced AT&T U-VERSE DSL use routers (2-Wire in the first case, Motorola in the 2nd) that DO NOT separate the modem from the router. I despair of trying to explain the problems this creates to an ATT customer service rep in St. Paul or Bangladesh. There are a gazillion posts on-line from people having problems with the Motorola NVG510. The only time I seriously messed with the 2-wire, before I upgraded to U-Verse service, I lost internet for the whole family for several days. I am tiptoeing around now to avoid a re-run.

Several of the posts said they had solved the NVG510 problems by using that device just as a "bridge" and then putting a regular (maybe Linksys) router behind that to handle all the router functions. I assume "bridge" means essentially a modem only. I'd love to know more about that, but I am terrified to try much more messing with it.

I am familiar with port-forwarding, as you have to port-forward to set up the radio-end RemoteRig for the remotely controlled K3. I also have a very robust remotely controlled Web7 power switch that lets me turn things on and off up at the "big station" in MD that I am remotely controlling. That also requires port-forwarding.

I also leave a PC running in MD on an uninterruptible power supply, and I use that to move my rotor and control the KAT500 if needs be. I have put that on a static ip on the LAN.

The external static ip that I need here in Key West, for which I pay $5 per month extra, is needed for a system of remotely viewable surveillance cameras. Those were installed by our alarm company, and they wanted me to get the static ip. My problems with the K3/0 started after that visit by the ATT technician.

So, unwilling to try the "bridge" approach for fear of really getting screwed up, I tried plugging the RemoteRig Control unit into a downstream ( daisy-chained) router from the NVG510, and the problem went away. I am throwing no parades until this fix proves to be lasting,

What was so bizarre in all this --- i should be able to take the K3/0 plus RemoteRig control box (RRC) to a local Starbucks and get on the air using wifi. I should not have to do more than change network addresses in the RRC. Why the NVG510 isn't similarly blind to the device attaching to it seems illogical. But, nevertheless, once the tech left, having set up 5 static external ip addresses, the RRC and K3/0 would turn on the remote K3, I could hear it, tune it, change modes, filters, key up, etc., but none of the changes made at the radio end were reflected in the front panel of the K3/0. It just sat there saying 21.000.00 CW.

Now, having plugged the RRC in one box downstream, it all works again. Further mysteries remain, but I am going to pretend all is well.

Sorry for this long screed, but I am hoping it will:

A. Help someone else
or
B. Stimulate someone to offer a better fix.

73 to all. Happy Holidays to all.

Brian, W3BW

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6901 - Release Date: 12/08/13
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Brian F. Wruble-2

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

That is great. I will do it as soon as I get another router.

Query: what router brands and models have folks had the most success with --- especially freedom from failure?

Thanks so much, Chris!

73 de Brian

--
70 is the new 40.

Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble

> On Dec 20, 2013, at 1:49 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> here is a you tube video to bridge your uverse router to use your own device....
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYROv9Fjis
>
>
> ________________________________________
>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

David Christ

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Exactly.

I have a friend who uses this service so he can always reach his home network by name without having a static IP. Perhaps this can be of use to some on the list.

http://dyn.com/support/clients/

And it has been working very well according to him.

David K0LUM

On Dec 20, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> I ran an internet service provider for a couple of decades.
>
> The sad part of this is that there is a standard solution to all of this, the same one that works for Skype and BitTorrent.
>
> The radio end needs to send a message to some central server (run by RemoteRig) that says "I'm on, my 'name' is N1AL" or whatever identifier seems reasonable.
>
> The server sees the message, gets the apparent public IP from the header, and records it. The updates have to be every minute or two, but they can be UDP to minimize bandwidth and connections.
>
> The client (at Starbucks) sends a message to the central server saying "I want to operate N1AL" and the server says "connect to this IP using these port numbers."
>
> The next time the station checks in (about half the update interval on average) the server tells the station "connect to the operator's IP using these port numbers."
>
> Because the typical firewall opens up circuits for outgoing connections, the NAT firewall at Starbucks and the NAT firewall at the station both open the correct ports, thinking that they're connecting out, and not realizing they're being tricked into allowing a connection in -- it's okay because it has been coordinated through the central server.
>
> No static IP addresses, no messing with port forwarding, no trying to get your IT department to let you operate during your lunch break.
>
> There are a few missing details, but that's how most everything else works.
>
> -- Lynn

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

Dynamic DNS services are a different way of achieving a similar goal.

What they don't do is free someone from configuring a firewall at the
radio-end.

The method I outlined works with just about every translating firewall.
You don't have to mess with pass-thrus or proxies or know port numbers
or fiddle with a "DMZ" (which is never a true DMZ).

You don't even care about the private IP of the "radio end" or how many
times the address gets translated.

On 12/20/2013 12:52 PM, David Christ wrote:

> Exactly.
>
> I have a friend who uses this service so he can always reach his home network by name without having a static IP. Perhaps this can be of use to some on the list.
>
> http://dyn.com/support/clients/
>
> And it has been working very well according to him.
>
> David K0LUM
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>
>> I ran an internet service provider for a couple of decades.
>>
>> The sad part of this is that there is a standard solution to all of this, the same one that works for Skype and BitTorrent.
>>
>> The radio end needs to send a message to some central server (run by RemoteRig) that says "I'm on, my 'name' is N1AL" or whatever identifier seems reasonable.
>>
>> The server sees the message, gets the apparent public IP from the header, and records it. The updates have to be every minute or two, but they can be UDP to minimize bandwidth and connections.
>>
>> The client (at Starbucks) sends a message to the central server saying "I want to operate N1AL" and the server says "connect to this IP using these port numbers."
>>
>> The next time the station checks in (about half the update interval on average) the server tells the station "connect to the operator's IP using these port numbers."
>>
>> Because the typical firewall opens up circuits for outgoing connections, the NAT firewall at Starbucks and the NAT firewall at the station both open the correct ports, thinking that they're connecting out, and not realizing they're being tricked into allowing a connection in -- it's okay because it has been coordinated through the central server.
>>
>> No static IP addresses, no messing with port forwarding, no trying to get your IT department to let you operate during your lunch break.
>>
>> There are a few missing details, but that's how most everything else works.
>>
>> -- Lynn
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Brian F. Wruble-2

Fwd: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

In reply to this post by Brian F. Wruble-2

For those of you have been following this, here is a text message string
with the ATT tech who installed my router. He is a good guy.

Me: OK, I think I worked around my problem, but I don't much care for the
Motorola router.

Tech: Everybody hates it.

Me: I am going to set it up as a bridge and put an Asus router behind it.

Tech: That's what a lot of people do, cascade a router.

73 de Brian W3BW

*Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.

*70 is the new 40.*
*
Mail: 1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040-4077
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue
To: Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]>
Cc: Alan Bloom <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <
[hidden email]>

That is great. I will do it as soon as I get another router.

Query: what router brands and models have folks had the most success with
--- especially freedom from failure?

Thanks so much, Chris!

73 de Brian

--
70 is the new 40.

Brian F. Wruble, C.F.A.
1107 Key Plaza, PMB 447 Key West, FL 33040
Summers: P.O.Box 57, 7400 Augustine Herman Highway, Georgetown, MD 21930
eFax 305.768.0278 Skype bwruble

On Dec 20, 2013, at 1:49 PM, Chris Tate - N6WM <[hidden email]> wrote:

here is a you tube video to bridge your uverse router to use your own
device....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpYROv9Fjis

________________________________________
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

gregg.w6izt1

Odd K3 behavior

I am experiencing the following behaviors with one of my K3s:

-I am unable to vary the PB shift. I rotate the knob without change
-The wings on the PB display are present even if I change the PB width
-In CW the + is on in the lower right hand corner of the display

Any assistance is greatly appreciated

73 HH, MC, HNY
Gregg
w6izt

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Odd K3 behavior

Turn off CONFIG:CW QRQ ... if CW QRQ is enabled several other functions
are disabled. Check the Owners Manual for details.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 12/20/2013 5:41 PM, Gregg W6IZT wrote:

>
> I am experiencing the following behaviors with one of my K3s:
>
> -I am unable to vary the PB shift. I rotate the knob without change
> -The wings on the PB display are present even if I change the PB width
> -In CW the + is on in the lower right hand corner of the display
>
> Any assistance is greatly appreciated
>
> 73 HH, MC, HNY
> Gregg
> w6izt
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

David Woolley (E.L)

Re: Fwd: K3/0 to K3 RemoteRig issue

In reply to this post by Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

[ Full bottom quote below ]

> The sad part of this is that there is a standard solution to all of
> this, the same one that works for Skype and BitTorrent.

BitTorrent comes from an anti-authoritarian background and does its best
to defeat network security measures. I think Skype was originally
written by the same people. To a large extent they only work on
corporate networks if that network is not properly locked down.

> The next time the station checks in (about half the update interval on
> average) the server tells the station "connect to the operator's IP
> using these port numbers."

Which in the Starbucks example quoted will either not be open or will be
open to the laptop of a completely different customer at the coffee shop.

To accept incoming traffic through a NAT router, the router must either
be hard configured with the ports (port forwarding) or must know enough
about the protocol being used to infer the need to map the ports. In
the latter case, there will normally be a port number translation, so
the router will not only have to set up the incoming port, but also
translate the port number in the communication to the central server,
which is another reason it has to be aware of the protocol.

In that sort of public environment, which is not particularly worried
about network security, the most likely way to succeed would either
involve a permanent TCP connection to the central server, or frequent
polling of that server for incoming calls. The actual call can either
be relayed through the central server, or if one side has full control
of their connectivity, the more restricted side can call them.

The original Skype also borrowed the better connected, signed in, client
systems as relays for the traffic. That reduced the central servers
costs, which have to be paid for some way (e.g. Skypout).

For a home system that has to use NAT, but does have enough control of
its router to configure port forwarding rules, dynamic DNS, as mentioned
in other replies, is by far the simplest solution.

Incidentally, private addresses are a work round for limited number of
IP addresses, although they have also been used as a security measure.
Routers don't have to use them on the internal network. IPv6 should get
round the limit to the number of addresses, although another reason for
using dynamic addresses is to prevent low end product customers running
servers, so mass market ISPs may not offer their full benefits.

--
David Woolley
Registered owner K2 06123

On 20/12/13 17:46, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

> I ran an internet service provider for a couple of decades.
>
> The sad part of this is that there is a standard solution to all of
> this, the same one that works for Skype and BitTorrent.
>
> The radio end needs to send a message to some central server (run by
> RemoteRig) that says "I'm on, my 'name' is N1AL" or whatever identifier
> seems reasonable.
>
> The server sees the message, gets the apparent public IP from the
> header, and records it. The updates have to be every minute or two, but
> they can be UDP to minimize bandwidth and connections.
>
> The client (at Starbucks) sends a message to the central server saying
> "I want to operate N1AL" and the server says "connect to this IP using
> these port numbers."
>
> The next time the station checks in (about half the update interval on
> average) the server tells the station "connect to the operator's IP
> using these port numbers."
>
> Because the typical firewall opens up circuits for outgoing connections,
> the NAT firewall at Starbucks and the NAT firewall at the station both
> open the correct ports, thinking that they're connecting out, and not
> realizing they're being tricked into allowing a connection in -- it's
> okay because it has been coordinated through the central server.
>
> No static IP addresses, no messing with port forwarding, no trying to
> get your IT department to let you operate during your lunch break.
>
> There are a few missing details, but that's how most everything else works.
>
> -- Lynn
>
> On 12/20/2013 5:15 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> What was so bizarre in all this --- i should be able to take the K3/0
>> plus RemoteRig control box (RRC) to a local Starbucks and get on the
>> air using wifi.
>
>