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Fwd: New Sherwood report

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daleputnam

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

Only if it is not important to make contacts with folks that don't tolerate poor operating techniques.

--... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy

> ------------
> > Wouldn't having bad key clicks be an advantage in a contest?

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Barry N1EU

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Jan Erik Holm

It's only an advantage when you're trying to ward off a key clicking neighbor. If your potential neighbors would have non-clicking rigs, there is no advantage. In any case, you are just being a jerk (or worse) if you're knowingly producing key clicks.

Barry N1EU

Jan Erik Holm wrote

Yes absolutely

/SM2EKM
------------
On 2010-12-02 02:58, Steve Ellington wrote:
> Wouldn't having bad key clicks be an advantage in a contest?
>

P.B. Christensen

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Jan Erik Holm

4 ms. Given that the FTdx5K rise/fall is roughly double the time of the
K3 -- and that the K3 at 2 ms consumes significantly less bandwidth than the
FTdx5K at 4 ms, the CW transmit quality of the K3 is far superior. I would
like to hear QSK on the Yaesu, compare it with the K3's QRQ mode, and note
any audible artifacts in the headphones -- especially for signs of clicks
and DC thumps.

Referring to the December, 2010 QST Product Review on p.45, take a look at
the leading edge of the second pulse (lower trace) in Figure 1. The sharp
rise and sharp edge at the top of the waveform is what is consuming the
bandwidth. Based on that waveform, it was absolutely generating clicks at
some distance from the Fc. That pattern is characteristic of a deficient
ALC system.

A deficiency in the ALC system then takes us into SSB Tx IMD. The published
FTdx5K Tx IMD numbers look great with the ARRL's steady tone method but
arguably, that's probably more relevant to data modes. The question is
"what is the FTdx5K's ALC doing to undermine the rig's otherwise excellent
SSB Tx IMD numbers, especially in Class A?" Really, the published Tx IMD
figures are meaningless unless dynamic testing is conducted to simulate
rapid changes in power associated with voice modes.

Paul, W9AC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Erik Holm" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report

> Yes but to what rise/fall time was the radio set? AFAIK in
> the FT5000 it can be changed.
>
> /Jim SM2EKM

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Jan Erik Holm

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

Of course I agree. However there are far far too many
that doesn´t care, they will do anything they can to
find ways. There are people modifying their radios to
get more key clicks, there are people with a "class C"
switch on their amplifiers, etc ect it goes on and
on.
It´s a rotten world and some of these "jerks" even
gets defended by the contest sponsors.

/ Jim SM2EKM
---------------
On 2010-12-03 14:48, Barry N1EU wrote:

>
> is no advantage. In any case, you are just being a jerk (or worse) if
> you're knowingly producing key clicks.
>
> Barry N1EU
>
>
> Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>>
>> Yes absolutely
>>
>> /SM2EKM
>> ------------
>> On 2010-12-02 02:58, Steve Ellington wrote:
>>> Wouldn't having bad key clicks be an advantage in a contest?
>>>
>>
>

Guy, K2AV

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

All the click complaints for years and still Yaesu doesn't take care
of the waveform. It's not like there aren't tons of reads on the
subject, no excuse at all since Google. It's more like they just
don't care, or are simply convinced it doesn't matter. After all,
isn't CW obsolete, and nobody uses it anymore, right?

73, Guy.

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Paul Christensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 4 ms. Given that the FTdx5K rise/fall is roughly double the time of the
> K3 -- and that the K3 at 2 ms consumes significantly less bandwidth than the
> FTdx5K at 4 ms, the CW transmit quality of the K3 is far superior. I would
> like to hear QSK on the Yaesu, compare it with the K3's QRQ mode, and note
> any audible artifacts in the headphones -- especially for signs of clicks
> and DC thumps.
>
> Referring to the December, 2010 QST Product Review on p.45, take a look at
> the leading edge of the second pulse (lower trace) in Figure 1. The sharp
> rise and sharp edge at the top of the waveform is what is consuming the
> bandwidth. Based on that waveform, it was absolutely generating clicks at
> some distance from the Fc. That pattern is characteristic of a deficient
> ALC system.
>
> A deficiency in the ALC system then takes us into SSB Tx IMD. The published
> FTdx5K Tx IMD numbers look great with the ARRL's steady tone method but
> arguably, that's probably more relevant to data modes. The question is
> "what is the FTdx5K's ALC doing to undermine the rig's otherwise excellent
> SSB Tx IMD numbers, especially in Class A?" Really, the published Tx IMD
> figures are meaningless unless dynamic testing is conducted to simulate
> rapid changes in power associated with voice modes.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Erik Holm" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report
>
>
>> Yes but to what rise/fall time was the radio set? AFAIK in
>> the FT5000 it can be changed.
>>
>> /Jim SM2EKM
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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>

Jan Erik Holm

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

OK. AFAIK at 4 ms a CW TX will have to much
bandwith. Even the K3 at 5 ms (if it hasen´t changed
since I measured it) do have "mild clicks". I wish
the K3 could be set to something like 7 or 8 ms.

/ Jim SM2EKM
----------------
On 2010-12-03 14:43, Barry N1EU wrote:

>
>
> Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>>
>> Yes but to what rise/fall time was the radio set? AFAIK in
>> the FT5000 it can be changed.
>>
> It was most likely set to the default 4 msec. It can be set to 1, 2, 4, 6
> msec.
>
> Barry N1EU
>

Jan Erik Holm

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

So now we have a 2 ms claim for the K3. I know I measured
it to 5 ms but this was something like 2 years ago.

What is it? Can Elecraft please tell.

And yes dynamic testing of SSB IMD is the only way to
go when dealing with a ALC/AGC controlled TX.

Jim SM2EKM
----------------
On 2010-12-03 15:08, Paul Christensen wrote:

> 4 ms. Given that the FTdx5K rise/fall is roughly double the time of the
> K3 -- and that the K3 at 2 ms consumes significantly less bandwidth than the
> FTdx5K at 4 ms, the CW transmit quality of the K3 is far superior. I would
> like to hear QSK on the Yaesu, compare it with the K3's QRQ mode, and note
> any audible artifacts in the headphones -- especially for signs of clicks
> and DC thumps.
>
> Referring to the December, 2010 QST Product Review on p.45, take a look at
> the leading edge of the second pulse (lower trace) in Figure 1. The sharp
> rise and sharp edge at the top of the waveform is what is consuming the
> bandwidth. Based on that waveform, it was absolutely generating clicks at
> some distance from the Fc. That pattern is characteristic of a deficient
> ALC system.
>
> A deficiency in the ALC system then takes us into SSB Tx IMD. The published
> FTdx5K Tx IMD numbers look great with the ARRL's steady tone method but
> arguably, that's probably more relevant to data modes. The question is
> "what is the FTdx5K's ALC doing to undermine the rig's otherwise excellent
> SSB Tx IMD numbers, especially in Class A?" Really, the published Tx IMD
> figures are meaningless unless dynamic testing is conducted to simulate
> rapid changes in power associated with voice modes.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Erik Holm"<[hidden email]>
> To:<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report
>
>
>> Yes but to what rise/fall time was the radio set? AFAIK in
>> the FT5000 it can be changed.
>>
>> /Jim SM2EKM
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Jan Erik Holm

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Waveform? When you have a 1 ms raise/fall time no way you
can shape the waveform so it doesnt click.

/Jim SM2EKM
---------------
On 2010-12-03 15:29, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> All the click complaints for years and still Yaesu doesn't take care
> of the waveform. It's not like there aren't tons of reads on the
> subject, no excuse at all since Google. It's more like they just
> don't care, or are simply convinced it doesn't matter. After all,
> isn't CW obsolete, and nobody uses it anymore, right?
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Paul Christensen<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 4 ms. Given that the FTdx5K rise/fall is roughly double the time of the
>> K3 -- and that the K3 at 2 ms consumes significantly less bandwidth than the
>> FTdx5K at 4 ms, the CW transmit quality of the K3 is far superior. I would
>> like to hear QSK on the Yaesu, compare it with the K3's QRQ mode, and note
>> any audible artifacts in the headphones -- especially for signs of clicks
>> and DC thumps.
>>
>> Referring to the December, 2010 QST Product Review on p.45, take a look at
>> the leading edge of the second pulse (lower trace) in Figure 1. The sharp
>> rise and sharp edge at the top of the waveform is what is consuming the
>> bandwidth. Based on that waveform, it was absolutely generating clicks at
>> some distance from the Fc. That pattern is characteristic of a deficient
>> ALC system.
>>
>> A deficiency in the ALC system then takes us into SSB Tx IMD. The published
>> FTdx5K Tx IMD numbers look great with the ARRL's steady tone method but
>> arguably, that's probably more relevant to data modes. The question is
>> "what is the FTdx5K's ALC doing to undermine the rig's otherwise excellent
>> SSB Tx IMD numbers, especially in Class A?" Really, the published Tx IMD
>> figures are meaningless unless dynamic testing is conducted to simulate
>> rapid changes in power associated with voice modes.
>>
>> Paul, W9AC
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jan Erik Holm"<[hidden email]>
>> To:<[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 8:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report
>>
>>
>>> Yes but to what rise/fall time was the radio set? AFAIK in
>>> the FT5000 it can be changed.
>>>
>>> /Jim SM2EKM
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: New Sherwood report

The FT5000 is a mighty fine transceiver!

73
Arie PA3A
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P.B. Christensen

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Jan Erik Holm

> OK. AFAIK at 4 ms a CW TX will have to much
bandwith. Even the K3 at 5 ms (if it hasen´t changed
since I measured it) do have "mild clicks".

It' not strictly the rise/fall time, it's the shape of the RF envelope
within the rise/fall time.

http://www.w8ji.com/cw_bandwidth_described.htm

Using the internal calibrator on my Tektronix SC504, I just measured the K3
rise time at 2.5 ms. I measure from the time the envelope just begins to
take off from zero until the point that full amplitude is reached.
Actually, full power on my K3 is not achieved for several more msec, but the
dominant transition to the full power is measured at 2.5 ms.

> I wish the K3 could be set to something like 7 or 8 ms.

Why?

Paul, W9AC

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Barry N1EU

Re: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

If you're running in a cw contest, any radio that has worse key clicks than your radio and is a potential close neighbor, is not "mighty fine".

Barry N1EU

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2 wrote

The FT5000 is a mighty fine transceiver!

Jan Erik Holm

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

Yes I do know that it´s not the rise/fall time
alone, that has never been my point. However
one factor is the rise/fall and if it´s too fast
it will not be possible to fix it with shaping.

Why, yes IMO the K3 clicks too much. I know it
can be done since there are radios around that
doesn´t click at all and at the same time the
keying is "hard enough" for normal CW use. Sure
you can´t key it to 500-600 lpm but thats not
normal CW.

/ Jim SM2EKM
-----------------
On 2010-12-03 16:00, Paul Christensen wrote:

>> OK. AFAIK at 4 ms a CW TX will have to much
> bandwith. Even the K3 at 5 ms (if it hasen´t changed
> since I measured it) do have "mild clicks".
>
> It' not strictly the rise/fall time, it's the shape of the RF envelope
> within the rise/fall time.
>
> http://www.w8ji.com/cw_bandwidth_described.htm
>
> Using the internal calibrator on my Tektronix SC504, I just measured the K3
> rise time at 2.5 ms. I measure from the time the envelope just begins to
> take off from zero until the point that full amplitude is reached.
> Actually, full power on my K3 is not achieved for several more msec, but the
> dominant transition to the full power is measured at 2.5 ms.
>
>> I wish the K3 could be set to something like 7 or 8 ms.
>
> Why?
>
> Paul, W9AC
>

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

The FT5000 will improve in the coming half year. I'm sure of it. Yeasu
might modify some things (software updates), or others will.

It is just that every time a good transceiver hits the market, everybody
seems to jump on the subject to prove that it is not a good transceiver.
At least, not as good as the K3. :-)
I'm reading this list with great pleasure and i'm learning a lot in the
process. Thanks all.

73
Arie PA3A

Op 3-12-2010 16:07, Barry N1EU schreef:
> If you're running in a cw contest, any radio that has worse key clicks than
> your radio and is a potential close neighbor, is not "mighty fine".
>
> Barry N1EU
>
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Kok Chen

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Jan Erik Holm

On Dec 3, 2010, at 12/3 6:44 AM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:

> So now we have a 2 ms claim for the K3. I know I measured it to 5 ms
> but this was something like 2 years ago.
>
> What is it? Can Elecraft please tell.

Quite possibly the waveshaping is done by an FIR window. So the
design parameter may not be directly comparable to the risetime of a
first order IIR. (I hope Elecraft didn't take a shortcut and used IIR
waveshaping!)

You can of course use the 10% to 90% points as the equivalent risetime
even for an FIR waveshaping, but there are subtle difference from the
"risetime" compared to a typical RC filter, especially when the "tail"
of the impulse of the FIR is very different from a decaying exponential.

What I'm trying to say is that "2 msec" for one waveshape can produce
vastly different spectrum from "2 msec" of a different waveshape when
the standard of measurement is 10% to 90%. The portions between 0% to
10% and between 90% to 100% of the leading and trailing edges of a
pulse are probably more important that what it is doing between 10%
and 90%, which is usually a smooth function.

If hams apply a frequency domain criterion (like, say, -6 dB and -60
dB points in the spectrum envelope of a sequence of dits) instead of a
single number such as "risetime," we probably can more easily decide
which rigs are problematical in regards to keyclicks.

73
Chen, W7AY

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P.B. Christensen

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Jan Erik Holm

> Why, yes IMO the K3 clicks too much.

Jim,

If you're experiencing clicks with your K3, you really need to investigate
with a scope. At the risk of pontificating, every station should have a
scope to monitor the transmit waveform. It can also be used to effectively
monitor T/R sequencing times when using an external amp. I suspect many
stations are hot-switching their amps and don't even know it until a T/R
relay's contacts fuse and the relay fails. Cost is no longer an excuse.
Anyone who can afford a K3 or FTdx5K can own a scope. Good quality used
scopes can be purchased on the surplus market between USD $100-200.

If I may make a plug for N8LP, he's got a forthcoming product that addresses
my pontification nicely:

http://www.telepostinc.com/LP-500.html

Cost will be more than a used oscilloscope, but it looks like his product is
concentrated on what we need for monitoring rather than general bench work.
Design and cosmetics appear to be commensurate with the Elecraft K3.

Paul, W9AC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Erik Holm" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report

Yes I do know that it´s not the rise/fall time
alone, that has never been my point. However
one factor is the rise/fall and if it´s too fast
it will not be possible to fix it with shaping.

Why, yes IMO the K3 clicks too much. I know it
can be done since there are radios around that
doesn´t click at all and at the same time the
keying is "hard enough" for normal CW use. Sure
you can´t key it to 500-600 lpm but thats not
normal CW.

/ Jim SM2EKM
-----------------
On 2010-12-03 16:00, Paul Christensen wrote:

>> OK. AFAIK at 4 ms a CW TX will have to much
> bandwith. Even the K3 at 5 ms (if it hasen´t changed
> since I measured it) do have "mild clicks".
>
> It' not strictly the rise/fall time, it's the shape of the RF envelope
> within the rise/fall time.
>
> http://www.w8ji.com/cw_bandwidth_described.htm
>
> Using the internal calibrator on my Tektronix SC504, I just measured the
> K3
> rise time at 2.5 ms. I measure from the time the envelope just begins to
> take off from zero until the point that full amplitude is reached.
> Actually, full power on my K3 is not achieved for several more msec, but
> the
> dominant transition to the full power is measured at 2.5 ms.
>
>> I wish the K3 could be set to something like 7 or 8 ms.
>
> Why?
>
> Paul, W9AC
>

Phil LaMarche-2

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

WOW!

Philip LaMarche

LaMarche Enterprises, Inc
[hidden email]
www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com

727-944-3226
727-937-8834 Fax
727-510-5038 Cell

www.w9dvm.com

K3 #1605

CCA 98-00827
CRA 1701
W9DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:56 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report

> Why, yes IMO the K3 clicks too much.

Jim,

If you're experiencing clicks with your K3, you really need to investigate
with a scope. At the risk of pontificating, every station should have a
scope to monitor the transmit waveform. It can also be used to effectively
monitor T/R sequencing times when using an external amp. I suspect many
stations are hot-switching their amps and don't even know it until a T/R
relay's contacts fuse and the relay fails. Cost is no longer an excuse.
Anyone who can afford a K3 or FTdx5K can own a scope. Good quality used
scopes can be purchased on the surplus market between USD $100-200.

If I may make a plug for N8LP, he's got a forthcoming product that addresses
my pontification nicely:

http://www.telepostinc.com/LP-500.html

Cost will be more than a used oscilloscope, but it looks like his product is
concentrated on what we need for monitoring rather than general bench work.
Design and cosmetics appear to be commensurate with the Elecraft K3.

Paul, W9AC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Erik Holm" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: New Sherwood report

Yes I do know that it´s not the rise/fall time
alone, that has never been my point. However
one factor is the rise/fall and if it´s too fast
it will not be possible to fix it with shaping.

Why, yes IMO the K3 clicks too much. I know it
can be done since there are radios around that
doesn´t click at all and at the same time the
keying is "hard enough" for normal CW use. Sure
you can´t key it to 500-600 lpm but thats not
normal CW.

/ Jim SM2EKM
-----------------
On 2010-12-03 16:00, Paul Christensen wrote:

>> OK. AFAIK at 4 ms a CW TX will have to much
> bandwith. Even the K3 at 5 ms (if it hasen´t changed
> since I measured it) do have "mild clicks".
>
> It' not strictly the rise/fall time, it's the shape of the RF envelope
> within the rise/fall time.
>
> http://www.w8ji.com/cw_bandwidth_described.htm
>
> Using the internal calibrator on my Tektronix SC504, I just measured the
> K3
> rise time at 2.5 ms. I measure from the time the envelope just begins to
> take off from zero until the point that full amplitude is reached.
> Actually, full power on my K3 is not achieved for several more msec, but
> the
> dominant transition to the full power is measured at 2.5 ms.
>
>> I wish the K3 could be set to something like 7 or 8 ms.
>
> Why?
>
> Paul, W9AC
>

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by P.B. Christensen

Paul and all,

Another way of investigating is with a spectrum analyzer - and for
investigation of a transmitted signal on one band, it does not have to
be expensive (but must be homebrewed to be inexpensive). See the
implementation by G4AON at http://www.astromag.co.uk/ssa/

It is quite a nice narrowband spectrum analyzer - you can see the
display using Spectrogram or Spectrum Lab or most any other audio
spectrum analyzer running on the shack's soundcard equipped PC.

You are correct, a 'scope is the most useful tool for measuring timing
and amplitude.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/3/2010 10:55 AM, Paul Christensen wrote:

>> Why, yes IMO the K3 clicks too much.
> Jim,
>
> If you're experiencing clicks with your K3, you really need to investigate
> with a scope. At the risk of pontificating, every station should have a
> scope to monitor the transmit waveform. It can also be used to effectively
> monitor T/R sequencing times when using an external amp. I suspect many
> stations are hot-switching their amps and don't even know it until a T/R
> relay's contacts fuse and the relay fails. Cost is no longer an excuse.
> Anyone who can afford a K3 or FTdx5K can own a scope. Good quality used
> scopes can be purchased on the surplus market between USD $100-200.
>
> If I may make a plug for N8LP, he's got a forthcoming product that addresses
> my pontification nicely:
>
> http://www.telepostinc.com/LP-500.html
>
> Cost will be more than a used oscilloscope, but it looks like his product is
> concentrated on what we need for monitoring rather than general bench work.
> Design and cosmetics appear to be commensurate with the Elecraft K3.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>

Chester Alderman

Re: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Which put's it in a class with about 75 other transceivers!

Tom - W4BQF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:00 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Sherwood report

The FT5000 is a mighty fine transceiver!

73
Arie PA3A
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wayne burdick

On the K3's CW keying envelope shaping, rise/fall times, and CW ALC

Administrator

In reply to this post by Kok Chen

There will never be a K3 menu option that allows for clicky CW. K3s
are at or near the top in every CW contest already, thanks to the
skill of our customers rather than bandwidth-hogging signals.

There are two factors that control how clean and click-free a CW
keying envelope will be: explicit shaping by DSP or analog circuitry,
and incidental shaping due to ALC or transmit chain effects. The K3's
CW is extremely clean and narrow-banded and click-free because we took
both factors into consideration. (Note the this is also true of the K2.)

DSP Shaping:

The rising and falling edges of the CW waveform are shaped by the DSP
using an optimal raised-cosine envelope. Rise and fall times are
approximately 4 ms, varying only slightly over the entire available
power output range of 0.1 to 110 W. We experimented with other
sigmoidal envelope shapes, but the raised cosine was the best overall.

ALC:

The K3 one of very few high-end transceivers that use open-loop
application of keying envelope shaping. This ensures that the applied
shape is not compromised by ALC action. Most transceivers, including
some recently discussed, use fast ALC to control power output level.
Even if they start with DSP or analog shaping, the ALC jumps in to
limit the peak amplitude of the transmit waveform, resulting in
envelope clipping and thus wideband clicks.

So how does the K3's CW ALC work? First, we use a TX gain calibration
procedure to store per-band gain constants. This information is used
to preset transmit gain as you rotate the POWER control. When you hit
the key, we start off just below this target level (about 0.5 to 1
dB), then use a slow ALC loop to adjust gain to hit the exact level
requested. Generally the power stabilizes in one or two dits. Shaping
is excellent on every code element.

We use similar techniques to ensure virtually perfect envelope shaping
in data modes. In voice modes, we use two-stage ALC -- fast pre-
crystal-filter ALC in the DSP, slow firmware-based ALC *after* the
crystal filter -- to ensure that speech signals are completely free of
splatter. This technique also results in extremely clean and effective
speech compression.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Paul Maruna

Re: Fwd: New Sherwood report

In reply to this post by Ed Schuller

Barry N1EU <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>It's only an advantage when you're trying to ward off a key clicking
>neighbor. If your potential neighbors would have non-clicking rigs, there
>is no advantage. In any case, you are just being a jerk (or worse) if
>you're knowingly producing key clicks.
>
>Barry N1EU
>
>
>Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>>
>> Yes absolutely
>>
>> /SM2EKM
>> ------------
>> On 2010-12-02 02:58, Steve Ellington wrote:
>>> Wouldn't having bad key clicks be an advantage in a contest?
>>>
>>
>
>--
>View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Fwd-New-Sherwood-report-tp5793377p5799853.html
>Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>______________________________________________________________
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