Getting ready to order K2

[Brian Lloyd-6]

So after all this discussion of the K3, here I am getting ready to  
purchase a K2.

As I think I have mentioned before, I am setting up a science and  
technology center in our school, Granite Bay Montessori School.  
(http://www.gbmontessori.com) We have received a grant from the ARRL  
to help populate the center with equipment including an amateur  
station. We have been asked for a list of what we would like and I  
have decided to go against the flow and request a K2 kit. (They were  
recommending we choose either a Yaesu FT-897, an Icom IC-706mkIIg, or  
a Kenwood TS-570SG.)

My plan is to have the all the kids work on the kit so that they have  
the feeling of both participation and accomplishment. I also plan to  
use the assembly and testing procedures to help cement what they are  
learning about electricity.

The radios mentioned above all fall into the sub $1000 range so that  
is a calibration point for what I think we can get away with  
spending. So my question here is, if you were going to outfit a K2  
and try to keep the price "reasonable" what would you get and what  
might you leave behind. As I see it, the absolute must-have items are:

1. the K2 itself (duh);
2. the SSB module.

After that it becomes a bit fuzzy. For instance, I would like  
opinions as to the need for the KPA-100. Note that if I don't opt for  
the KPA-100 I *will* get the KIO-2. Since I expect to be using this  
rig mostly in in the classroom with a matched antenna (I am leaning  
toward the GAP Titan DX as I have one and like it), I probably would  
not opt for the KAT-2. What about the DSP module?

The kids are learning the code and I hope/expect that there will be a  
fair amount of CW operation. (The kids actually think that learning  
the code will be a cool thing in and of itself. I am using the Code  
Quick system with them.) I also expect some SSB and digital (AFSK,  
PSK31, MFSK, SSTV, etc.) operation.

Anyway, I solicit the input from the folks on this list. You have a  
lot of experience with the product and can help me make the right  
decisions.

Thanks!

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

Well, you need to get the antenna, coax, a key, microphone?

I would nix the KPA100, and the DSP, and even the SSB option as
you can receive ssb fine on the base K2.

It might be more fun to put up a G5RV and use the low power
auto tuner, you can go anyplace on any band that way.

If you really want to TRANSMIT the digital modes, I guess
you would need the KPA100, but without a tuner, the swr
needs to be almost zero, something most multi band
antenna's will not do over a useful frequency range
on the lower bands.
You can receive the digital modes fine with the base K2 I guess.

You could build the K2 this year and next year build options,
or are you going to build a K2 every year?

It seems to me like building a K1 or K2 would teach students
a lot more useful info than most of the other stuff in school.

Brett
N2DTS

 

>
> So after all this discussion of the K3, here I am getting ready to  
> purchase a K2.
>
> As I think I have mentioned before, I am setting up a science and  
> technology center in our school, Granite Bay Montessori School.  
> (http://www.gbmontessori.com) We have received a grant from the ARRL  
> to help populate the center with equipment including an amateur  
> station. We have been asked for a list of what we would like and I  
> have decided to go against the flow and request a K2 kit. (They were  
> recommending we choose either a Yaesu FT-897, an Icom
> IC-706mkIIg, or  
> a Kenwood TS-570SG.)
>
> My plan is to have the all the kids work on the kit so that
> they have  
> the feeling of both participation and accomplishment. I also plan to  
> use the assembly and testing procedures to help cement what they are  
> learning about electricity.
>
> The radios mentioned above all fall into the sub $1000 range so that  
> is a calibration point for what I think we can get away with  
> spending. So my question here is, if you were going to outfit a K2  
> and try to keep the price "reasonable" what would you get and what  
> might you leave behind. As I see it, the absolute must-have items are:
>
> 1. the K2 itself (duh);
> 2. the SSB module.
>
> After that it becomes a bit fuzzy. For instance, I would like  
> opinions as to the need for the KPA-100. Note that if I don't
> opt for  
> the KPA-100 I *will* get the KIO-2. Since I expect to be using this  
> rig mostly in in the classroom with a matched antenna (I am leaning  
> toward the GAP Titan DX as I have one and like it), I probably would  
> not opt for the KAT-2. What about the DSP module?
>
> The kids are learning the code and I hope/expect that there
> will be a  
> fair amount of CW operation. (The kids actually think that learning  
> the code will be a cool thing in and of itself. I am using the Code  
> Quick system with them.) I also expect some SSB and digital (AFSK,  
> PSK31, MFSK, SSTV, etc.) operation.
>
> Anyway, I solicit the input from the folks on this list. You have a  
> lot of experience with the product and can help me make the right  
> decisions.
>
> Thanks!
>
> 73 de Brian, WB6RQN
> Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com
>
>
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>

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[Mark Bayern]

You'll need the SSB module for the digital modes. Keep it on the list.

The KAT-2 (auto tuner) also adds a real bridge and a second antenna
connector. If you have an antenna that is matched on all freqs you
plan on running, and only plan on having one antenna, the KAT-2 won't
do anything for you. However, if you'd ever like to be able to easily
switch between two antennas, or you'd like to experiment with other
antennas, the KAT-2 is a great thing to have.

I'd 'leave behind' the noise blanker and the DSP. The noise blanker
gets mixed reviews on this list, and the two I have have never blanked
any noise at my QTH. (Maybe I just have the wrong kind of noise?).

Mark  AD5SS

On 6/12/07, Brian Lloyd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So after all this discussion of the K3, here I am getting ready to
> purchase a K2.
>
> As I think I have mentioned before, I am setting up a science and
> technology center in our school, Granite Bay Montessori School.
> (http://www.gbmontessori.com) We have received a grant from the ARRL
> to help populate the center with equipment including an amateur
> station. We have been asked for a list of what we would like and I
> have decided to go against the flow and request a K2 kit. (They were
> recommending we choose either a Yaesu FT-897, an Icom IC-706mkIIg, or
> a Kenwood TS-570SG.)
>
> My plan is to have the all the kids work on the kit so that they have
> the feeling of both participation and accomplishment. I also plan to
> use the assembly and testing procedures to help cement what they are
> learning about electricity.
>
> The radios mentioned above all fall into the sub $1000 range so that
> is a calibration point for what I think we can get away with
> spending. So my question here is, if you were going to outfit a K2
> and try to keep the price "reasonable" what would you get and what
> might you leave behind. As I see it, the absolute must-have items are:
>
> 1. the K2 itself (duh);
> 2. the SSB module.
>
> After that it becomes a bit fuzzy. For instance, I would like
> opinions as to the need for the KPA-100. Note that if I don't opt for
> the KPA-100 I *will* get the KIO-2. Since I expect to be using this
> rig mostly in in the classroom with a matched antenna (I am leaning
> toward the GAP Titan DX as I have one and like it), I probably would
> not opt for the KAT-2. What about the DSP module?
>
> The kids are learning the code and I hope/expect that there will be a
> fair amount of CW operation. (The kids actually think that learning
> the code will be a cool thing in and of itself. I am using the Code
> Quick system with them.) I also expect some SSB and digital (AFSK,
> PSK31, MFSK, SSTV, etc.) operation.
>
> Anyway, I solicit the input from the folks on this list. You have a
> lot of experience with the product and can help me make the right
> decisions.
>

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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

First of all, there was substantial interest in the K2 sitting alongside the
K3 at SeaPac in Oregon June 2 and 3. It's  a great rig and, as several
people pointed out, one is assembled at lower cost from individual parts.

Elecraft just did a major update of the K2 Owner's Manual to be sure
everything was current and complete for those who will continue to buy K2's
for a long time to come.

I'd consider the analog or DSP audio filters entirely optional. I find the
basic I.F. filters in the K2 more than adequate for virtually any situation.
Sure, the denoiser is handy under tough signal conditions and the extra
selectivity is handy from time to time, especially if one needs the signal
to stand out alone from the QRM to copy it, but it's a significant cost for
something that isn't needed most of the time.

Was it the ARRL who "recommended" the Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood rigs? How dare
they leave Elecraft off of that list? If so, it's time to sharpen my
rhetoric (don't use a pencil much any more) and shoot off a letter (er...
Email) to Newington!

Ron AC7AC



-----Original Message-----
As I think I have mentioned before, I am setting up a science and  
technology center in our school, Granite Bay Montessori School.  
(http://www.gbmontessori.com) We have received a grant from the ARRL  
to help populate the center with equipment including an amateur  
station. We have been asked for a list of what we would like and I  
have decided to go against the flow and request a K2 kit. (They were  
recommending we choose either a Yaesu FT-897, an Icom IC-706mkIIg, or  
a Kenwood TS-570SG.)

My plan is to have the all the kids work on the kit so that they have  
the feeling of both participation and accomplishment. I also plan to  
use the assembly and testing procedures to help cement what they are  
learning about electricity.

The radios mentioned above all fall into the sub $1000 range so that  
is a calibration point for what I think we can get away with  
spending. So my question here is, if you were going to outfit a K2  
and try to keep the price "reasonable" what would you get and what  
might you leave behind. As I see it, the absolute must-have items are:

1. the K2 itself (duh);
2. the SSB module.

After that it becomes a bit fuzzy. For instance, I would like  
opinions as to the need for the KPA-100. Note that if I don't opt for  
the KPA-100 I *will* get the KIO-2. Since I expect to be using this  
rig mostly in in the classroom with a matched antenna (I am leaning  
toward the GAP Titan DX as I have one and like it), I probably would  
not opt for the KAT-2. What about the DSP module?

The kids are learning the code and I hope/expect that there will be a  
fair amount of CW operation. (The kids actually think that learning  
the code will be a cool thing in and of itself. I am using the Code  
Quick system with them.) I also expect some SSB and digital (AFSK,  
PSK31, MFSK, SSTV, etc.) operation.

Anyway, I solicit the input from the folks on this list. You have a  
lot of experience with the product and can help me make the right  
decisions.

Thanks!

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com

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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

Brett, N2DTS wrote:

If you really want to TRANSMIT the digital modes, I guess you would need the
KPA100,...

-----------------------------

Maybe for some modes. I haven't run all of them by any means.

I get out fine using PSK31 at 5 watts or less!

A few years ago it was uncommon to run into PSK stations running more than
10 watts or so. I haven't been on much lately, but it seems that more and
more stations in the >50 watt class are showing up on the common PSK
frequencies. All that means is that it's more important to tune in signals
using narrow filters (like any other mode) rather than dump the whole audio
bandwidth into the computer and do the filtering there looking at a
'waterfall' display. Trying to let the computer filter signals means the
receiver AGC is responding to the strongest signal in the passband and
suppressing all the others in proportion.  

Ron AC7AC


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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

This was a good usable rig for very little money,
not sure if they are still selling the entire kits
or just the boards, or what, but for $80.00, it
was a well working radio, and easy to build.



 http://emtech.steadynet.com/nw.shtml



All the verticals I ever used had VERY narrow bandwidths
on the lower bands, my butternut has about 40kc on 80 and if I add
the 160 coil, that's about 10 khz before the swr is high!
Maybe the gap stuff works different?


Its great the kids show ANY interest is anything other
than TV or video games. In my day, I built a 6SN7 regen
out of the encyclopedia we had (world book).
Next was a 6146 xtal transmitter.
What fun!

I cant say I think I learned anything in school after about
5th grade....even science class was dull!

Sounds like you are doing great work.


Brett
N2DTS

>
> On Jun 12, 2007, at 4:49 AM, Brett gazdzinski wrote:
>
> > Well, you need to get the antenna, coax, a key, microphone?
>
> Yes, sorry, I should have indicated that I also have on my list of  
> equipment:
>
> 1. a GAP Titan DX 80M-10M vertical antenna;
> 2. 40M of RG-213 or LMR-400 coax;
> 3. assorted connectors;
> 4. a bencher iambic key;
> 5. a straight key (I have a J-38 I have just restored).
>
> I had forgotten a microphone but will probably get a good cardioid  
> dynamic mic.
>
> > I would nix the KPA100, and the DSP, and even the SSB option as
> > you can receive ssb fine on the base K2.
>
> I understand but I want the kids to have the opportunity to operate  
> voice and digital modes too.
> >
> > It might be more fun to put up a G5RV and use the low power
> > auto tuner, you can go anyplace on any band that way.
>
> I may be limited in horizontal space to do that.
>
> > If you really want to TRANSMIT the digital modes,
>
> Yes.
>
> > I guess
> > you would need the KPA100, but without a tuner, the swr
> > needs to be almost zero, something most multi band
> > antenna's will not do over a useful frequency range
> > on the lower bands.
>
> I have a GAP Titan DX that was given to me. I was skeptical at first  
> but now am a believer. It has amazing bandwidth with lower SWR.
>
> > You can receive the digital modes fine with the base K2 I guess.
> >
> > You could build the K2 this year and next year build options,
> > or are you going to build a K2 every year?
>
> Well, the K2 will be the school rig. Some of the kids have expressed  
> an interest in building their own stations. This is why I am  
> introducing CW early as QRP CW is certainly the least expensive way  
> for a kid to have his/her own station. I will probably pick out an  
> inexpensive QRP transceiver kit for them to build. Since the school  
> usually pays for projects like this the K1 might be a bit out of  
> reach. (Hey Wayne! Do you have a good educational discount? :-) I am  
> leaning toward something like the Small Wonder SW+ transceiver kits  
> and let the kids build their own enclosures in wood shop.
>
> > It seems to me like building a K1 or K2 would teach students
> > a lot more useful info than most of the other stuff in school.
>
> Ah, you understand where I am going with this then.
>
> Brian Lloyd                         3191 Western Drive
> brianl AT lloyd DOT com             Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.  A good  
> citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
> PGP key ID:          12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0  CC09 1209 5C52
> A32A 1B6C
>
>
>

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[Brian Lloyd-6]

On Jun 12, 2007, at 9:41 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> First of all, there was substantial interest in the K2 sitting  
> alongside the
> K3 at SeaPac in Oregon June 2 and 3. It's  a great rig and, as several
> people pointed out, one is assembled at lower cost from individual  
> parts.

They are different and I certainly see value in both. I don't think  
that the K3 replaces the K2 or vice versa.

> Was it the ARRL who "recommended" the Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood rigs?  
> How dare
> they leave Elecraft off of that list? If so, it's time to sharpen my
> rhetoric (don't use a pencil much any more) and shoot off a letter  
> (er...
> Email) to Newington!

It is probably not fair to say that they recommended them. I know  
they are trying to put together packages for schools and they  
provided a "package" list that would be adequate for a school. I  
suspect that in many cases the trustee/elmer might not be all that  
technical or might be a newly-minted licensee and not really familiar  
with what might be needed.

Also consider that they want these stations to go up and get kids on-
the-air. Having to build the rig would, in many cases, keep that from  
happening. After talking with me and knowing my background they were  
quite supportive of my idea to get the K2 and build it with the kids.

So don't go beating up on them yet. :-)

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

Brian WB6RQN wrote:

It is probably not fair to say that they recommended them (the factory-built
options). I know  
they are trying to put together packages for schools and they  
provided a "package" list that would be adequate for a school. I  
suspect that in many cases the trustee/elmer might not be all that  
technical or might be a newly-minted licensee and not really familiar  
with what might be needed.

-----------------

As a member and supporter of the ARRL since 1952 I don't "beat up on them"
too easily. Considering the fact that many if not most Hams today would not
consider picking up a soldering iron to do more than attach a connector to a
cable, I agree they are probably being cautious. After all, I understand the
ARRL has launched their own program of technical courses to help Hams become
more technically competent.

The comparison is striking: when I was in the 6th grade our class built
crystal sets as part of "science". I already had a three-tube regenerative
receiver so I got an A without breaking a sweat <G>.

Ron AC7AC

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[Brian Lloyd-6]

On Jun 12, 2007, at 7:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> As a member and supporter of the ARRL since 1952 I don't "beat up  
> on them"
> too easily. Considering the fact that many if not most Hams today  
> would not
> consider picking up a soldering iron to do more than attach a  
> connector to a
> cable, I agree they are probably being cautious. After all, I  
> understand the
> ARRL has launched their own program of technical courses to help  
> Hams become
> more technically competent.

They are putting me through a one-week intensive training program to  
help me integrate their recommended lesson plans into my syllabus.  
They are also training us on the Parallax Boe-Bot robot kits. I am  
going to get several of those too. The kids get to build those as  
well and it introduces them to programming. Again, the hands-on  
aspect of writing a program that then causes the robot to behave a  
certain way in the physical world should be another reinforcing  
learning tool.

> The comparison is striking: when I was in the 6th grade our class  
> built
> crystal sets as part of "science". I already had a three-tube  
> regenerative
> receiver so I got an A without breaking a sweat <G>.

We didn't even do that in our classes. I am going to show kids how  
much fun making things can be.

Oh, and I have to get T-hunting and emergency communications in there  
too. I want to make sure there is something for everyone.

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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[David Woolley (E.L)]

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> cable, I agree they are probably being cautious. After all, I understand the
> ARRL has launched their own program of technical courses to help Hams become
> more technically competent.

The current UK licensing regime requires that a project be built before
one can get from the 10 watt limited Foundation Licence to the 50 watt
limited Intermediate Licence.  It can't be a transmitter though, as one
cannot use kit built equipment until you have gained the intermediate
licence (it looks like Intermediate Licensee transmitter kits must meet
some type approval rules, whereas full licence ones look like they are
exempt).  Assuming that there is some flexibility in what is built, I
would presume that there would be some market for a K2 with build
instructions modified to complete all the receiver bands before starting
on the transmitter, for when the licensee upgraded; it might need
appropriate type approval, though, for that market.  It would far exceed
the construction experience required for the licence!


--
David Woolley
Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want.
RFC1855 says there should be an address here, but, in a world of spam,
that is no longer good advice, as archive address hiding may not work.
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[Dan Barker]

Leaving out the finals might do the trick!

The "upgrade" to full transceiver would be about pretty cheap (two
transistors, some hardware and those pesky thermal pads).

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

<snip>
I would presume that there would be some market for a K2 with build
instructions modified to complete all the receiver bands before starting on
the transmitter, for when the licensee upgraded; it might need appropriate
type approval, though, for that market.  It would far exceed the
construction experience required for the licence!
</snip>

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