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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Gurus

Administrator

*Thread Closed*

Folks - let's close this thread now as its -waaay- past the single topic
posting limit for the list.

I apologize for not stepping in earlier. I've been off the list for several
days running the business etc :-)

73,
Eric
List moderator etc.
*elecraft.com <http://elecraft.com>*

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 6:58 PM Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:

> When this subject appeared last week I had composed a reply but then slept
> on it and canceled it the next morning, as I probably do 80% of the time.
>
> In this my second attempt, let me say that I've always been amazed at the
> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams hang on his latest tests.
> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some way, that can mean many
> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.
>
> And yet, if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places
> like Dayton expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would
> you answer the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any
> good?"
>
> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.
>
> But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which
> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal
> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A
> must be better because the gurus say so."
>
> Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver
> that has the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never
> mind if they can't actually hear the differences.
>
> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual operating that's most
> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a comment about his
> tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed at that... it's
> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
>
> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic range:
> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this ranking
> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said that
> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 2016
> by one of the old guys on this reflector:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html
>
>
> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone
> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There
> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.
>
> Above all, have fun.
>
> Al W6LX/4
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Gurus

In reply to this post by Josh Fiden

YES!

Mutual friends and neighbors Garry, NI6T, and Dave, W6NL, are neighbors,
very smart engineers, serious contesters, and live a few miles apart.
W6NL is a retired EE prof, ran a major company, has a super contesting
station on a mountaintop, where N5KO regularly wins CW Sprints.

Garry told me about calling Dave one day in the middle of a contest to
tell him there was a problem with his station. Dave immediately took his
station off the air. When they met a few days later at the local
farmer's market, Dave told him about what was wrong and how he fixed it.

THAT'S how REAL hams do it.

73, Jim K9YC

On 6/10/2021 12:33 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:

> This discussion reminds me quite a few years back I was running a 756Pro and PW-1. Steve K6UM, a neighbor at the time, contacted me and said I had bad key clicks. I was glad he did. We got on the phone, made adjustments and resolved it. Prior to that I didn’t know the default CW rise time was way too fast and that letting ALC control exciter power was a terrible idea. I LEARNED something and it was FUN. When I stop learning things and having fun, I will leave this hobby. Not likely!
>
> From the Amateur’s Code. Seems as valid today as ever.
>
> The Radio Amateur is
>
> CONSIDERATE...He/[She] never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.
>
> PROGRESSIVE...He/[She] keeps his/[her] station up to date. It is well-built and efficient. His/[Her] operating practice is above reproach.
>
> FRIENDLY...He/[She] operates slowly and patiently when requested; offers friendly advice and counsel to beginners; kind assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the marks of the amateur spirit.
>
> 73
> Josh W6XU
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Alan - G4GNX

Re: Gurus

In reply to this post by Dean L

I disagree.

The first rules of using test equipment are to calibrate it and RTFM,
then maybe you can trust it.

73,

Alan. G4GNX

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dean L" <[hidden email]>
To: "Wes Stewart" <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft Mail List"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: 10/06/2021 20:36:41
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

>looked at the videos and said, "Okay, where are the strengths?"
>
>the fact that it's $100
>Not looking to wage war just stating facts
>The first rules of using test equipment you got to trust it...
>
>73 all
>Dean
>

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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: Gurus

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

KX3 protects itself from overloading signals by automatically switching
preamp out and switching ATT on. If it happens to you radio then you
probably have overloaded RX issue. I am in the same situation here with
KX3 and a neighbor only 1000 meters away. KX3 is pretty weak as far as
BDR is concerned. K3 feels much better in the same environment.

73, Igor UA9CDC

10.06.2021 17:25, Dave B via Elecraft пишет:

> Should be easy to gauge...
>
> How "clean" (or otherwise) is his signal on your RX, with no antenna
> connected, and all the RX attenuation switched in.
>
> Perhaps also fit a well screened dummy load to the rig's antenna port(s)
>
> Also disconnecting just about everything else except the power (and
> put some ferrite on that!)
>
> All that should greatly reduce the level of his signal that your radio
> "see's" to manageable proportions.
>
> Even turn the RF gain down too if needed.
>
> If he's not splattering as much or at all, then it is likley your RX
> is being overloaded.
>
> If it sounds just as bad, and splattering just as wide, then likely
> it's his end.
>
> Regards to All.
>
> Dave G8KBV
>
>
>
> On 10/06/2021 05:01, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I can't tell if it's a bad radio on his end or just front end
>> overload on my end.
>

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: Gurus

In reply to this post by Julia Tuttle

I don't know what to say about the call I just got: K7FU.

On Thu, 10 Jun 2021, Julia Tuttle wrote:

> Oh, I know, it was a deliberate choice -- my Elmer (from, jeez, 20 years
> ago) K1AJ said he picked his for the sound, so I did too.
>
> I do occasionally get out on CW with it though!
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 00:35 Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-)
>>
>>
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Email: [hidden email]
>> Mobile: (814) 431-0962
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my
>> (noisy,
>>> urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the
>>> couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet,
>>> rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call? I wonder if we've
>>>> worked?73,Gary K9GS
>>>> -------- Original message --------From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]>
>>>> Date: 6/9/21 11:32 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <
>> [hidden email]>,
>>>> Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
>>>> [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
>>>> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great
>> day!Bill________________________________From:
>>>> [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on
>>>> behalf of Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>Sent: Tuesday, June 8,
>> 2021
>>>> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
>>>> [hidden email]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second
>>>> "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest
>> performing
>>>> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different
>> aspect
>>>> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool,
>>>> and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood
>>>> list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for
>>>> digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest......but I'll be darned if it
>> isn't
>>>> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a
>> work
>>>> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more
>> approachable/friendly
>>>> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is
>>>> tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get
>> what
>>>> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the
>>>> same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I
>> had
>>>> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next
>> morning, as
>>>> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say
>> that
>>>> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood.
>> Thousands of
>>>> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in
>> some
>>>> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And
>> yet,
>>>> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like
>> Dayton
>>>> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you
>> answer
>>>> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">>
>>>> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we
>>>> constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which>
>>>> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our
>> personal>
>>>> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but
>> Brand A>
>>>> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be
>> guys
>>>> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest
>> dynamic
>>>> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually
>> hear
>>>> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
>>>> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes
>> made a
>>>> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have
>> laughed
>>>> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking
>>>> about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order
>> dynamic
>>>> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this
>>>> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has
>>>> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this
>>>> post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
>>>>
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html
>>>>>
>>>> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear
>> someone>
>>>> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic.
>> There>
>>>> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
>>>> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft
>>>> mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
>>>> [hidden email]>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>>>> Message delivered to
>>>>
>> julia@juliatuttle.net______________________________________________________________Elecraft
>>>> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:
>> [hidden email]
>>>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
>>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to
>>>>
>> k9yeq@live.com______________________________________________________________Elecraft
>>>> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:
>> [hidden email]
>>>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
>>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>>
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>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Tom-5

Ksyn3a upgrade board

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Just a note that I got from Madelyn.

No, not my turn for the K4, but my K3syn upgrade board for my K3, non-s
(serial # 53!) is shipping.

Inch by inch I get to move forward!

Tom K8TB

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123