Gurus

[Bill K9YEQ]

The only flaw, I see is if someone doesn't really understand the real life application or meaning of the numbers.   To me, quality, usability,  simplicity,  update ability,  cost-effective use are more important.   Not the numbers.   Rob owns his preferences,  is not influenced by manufacturers and to me does a fantastic job of reviewing (I use different sort order for my picks at times) and because of Wayne, Eric and their phenomenal team... yes, you can say I drink Elecraft.
Bill
K9YEQ
Have a great day!
Bill

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Al Lorona <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 8:57:08 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Gurus

When this subject appeared last week I had composed a reply but then slept on it and canceled it the next morning, as I probably do 80% of the time.

In this my second attempt, let me say that I've always been amazed at the power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams hang on his latest tests. If he deems a new radio exceptional in some way, that can mean many millions of dollars for a manufacturer.

And yet, if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places like Dayton expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would you answer the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any good?"

You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.

But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A must be better because the gurus say so."

Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver that has the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never mind if they can't actually hear the differences.

It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual operating that's most important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a comment about his tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed at that... it's darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic range: almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this ranking more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said that 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 2016 by one of the old guys on this reflector: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html

Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.

Above all, have fun.

Al W6LX/4
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Gary K9GS-2]

Checked my log...we have not worked:)73,Gary K9GS
-------- Original message --------From: Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> Date: 6/10/21  12:00 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my (noisy, urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet, rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've worked?73,Gary K9GS
-------- Original message --------From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>, Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here, Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great day!Bill________________________________From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest performing rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different aspect of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool, and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest......but I'll be darned if it isn't just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a work of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more approachable/friendly for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get what makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <[hidden email]> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I had composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next morning, as I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say that I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And yet, if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like Dayton expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you answer the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be guys who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest dynamic range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually hear the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html>>> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4> ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:[hidden email]>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email] list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Buddy Brannan]

Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-)


Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: [phone]

> On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my (noisy,
> urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the
> couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet,
> rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've
>> worked?73,Gary K9GS
>> -------- Original message --------From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>,
>> Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
>> [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
>> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great day!Bill________________________________From:
>> [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on
>> behalf of Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021
>> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
>> [hidden email]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second
>> "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest performing
>> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different aspect
>> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool,
>> and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood
>> list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for
>> digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest......but I'll be darned if it isn't
>> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a work
>> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more approachable/friendly
>> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is
>> tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get what
>> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the
>> same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I had
>> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next morning, as
>> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say that
>> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood. Thousands of
>> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in some
>> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And yet,
>> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like Dayton
>> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you answer
>> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">>
>> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we
>> constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which>
>> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our personal>
>> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but Brand A>
>> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be guys
>> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest dynamic
>> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually hear
>> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
>> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes made a
>> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have laughed
>> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking
>> about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order dynamic
>> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this
>> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has
>> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this
>> post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html>>>
>> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear someone>
>> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic. There>
>> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
>> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
>> ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft
>> mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
>> [hidden email]>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>> Message delivered to
>> [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft
>> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email]
>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to
>> [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft
>> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:[hidden email]
>> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Julia Tuttle]

Oh, I know, it was a deliberate choice -- my Elmer (from, jeez, 20 years
ago) K1AJ said he picked his for the sound, so I did too.

I do occasionally get out on CW with it though!

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 00:35 Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-)
>
>
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Email: [hidden email]
> Mobile: [phone]
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my
> (noisy,
> > urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of the
> > couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's (quiet,
> > rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've
> >> worked?73,Gary K9GS
> >> -------- Original message --------From: Bill Johnson <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <
> [hidden email]>,
> >> Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> >> [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
> >> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great
> day!Bill________________________________From:
> >> [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on
> >> behalf of Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>Sent: Tuesday, June 8,
> 2021
> >> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> >> [hidden email]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna second
> >> "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the highest
> performing
> >> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different
> aspect
> >> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also cool,
> >> and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of the Sherwood
> >> list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and connecting it up for
> >> digital modes is a bit of a rat's nest......but I'll be darned if it
> isn't
> >> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is a
> work
> >> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more
> approachable/friendly
> >> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get) is
> >> tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab testing Get
> what
> >> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do the
> >> same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
> >> [hidden email]> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week I
> had
> >> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next
> morning, as
> >> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me say
> that
> >> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood.
> Thousands of
> >> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional in
> some
> >> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>> And
> yet,
> >> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like
> Dayton
> >> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you
> answer
> >> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any> good?">>
> >> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that way.>> But we
> >> constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the 'best' which>
> >> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better. Against our
> personal>
> >> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but
> Brand A>
> >> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always be
> guys
> >> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest
> dynamic
> >> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't actually
> hear
> >> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
> >> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance, Wes
> made a
> >> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have
> laughed
> >> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm talking
> >> about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz 3rd order
> dynamic
> >> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make this
> >> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood himself has
> >> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see this
> >> post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
> >>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long-td7623639.html
> >>>
> >> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear
> someone>
> >> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic.
> There>
> >> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
> >> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
> >> ______________________________________________________________> Elecraft
> >> mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
> >> [hidden email]>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
> >> Message delivered to
> >>
> [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft
> >> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:
> [hidden email]
> >> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to
> >>
> [e-mail]______________________________________________________________Elecraft
> >> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:
> [hidden email]
> >> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to [hidden email]
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Bill K9YEQ]

One more off topic:  I was told my call, which I totally disliked back in 1960... buddies pointed out, how great it was on cw.  How short sighted I was.

Bill
K9YEQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Julia Tuttle
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:41 PM
To: Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

Oh, I know, it was a deliberate choice -- my Elmer (from, jeez, 20 years
ago) K1AJ said he picked his for the sound, so I did too.

I do occasionally get out on CW with it though!

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 00:35 Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Man, what a great cw call, totally wasted on FT8 :-)
>
>
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Email: [hidden email]
> Mobile: [phone]
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > It's KV1V, but probably not -- I've mostly been working FT8 from my
> (noisy,
> > urban, antenna-limited) home QTH, and I don't think you were one of
> > the couple of folks I managed to reach on CW from my girlfriend's
> > (quiet, rural, big enough to have a full-size 40m dipole) QTH.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:42 PM Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree Julie,Just curious, what is your call?  I wonder if we've
> >> worked?73,Gary K9GS
> >> -------- Original message --------From: Bill Johnson
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >> Date: 6/9/21  11:32 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Al Lorona <
> [hidden email]>,
> >> Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <
> >> [hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus Here, here,
> >> Julie!BillK9YEQHave a great
> day!Bill________________________________From:
> >> [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> >> on behalf of Julia Tuttle <[hidden email]>Sent: Tuesday,
> >> June 8,
> 2021
> >> 9:36:00 PMTo: Al Lorona <[hidden email]>Cc: Elecraft
> >> Reflector <
> >> [hidden email]>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] GurusI'm gonna
> >> second "above all, have fun"!If it brings you joy to have the
> >> highest
> performing
> >> rig you can, cool, andI hope it serves you well.But if a different
> aspect
> >> of a radio, or even one you can't name, bringsyou joy, that's also
> >> cool, and I'm happy it makes you happy!My KX3 isn't at the top of
> >> the Sherwood list, it doesn't have a panadapter(...yet), and
> >> connecting it up for digital modes is a bit of a rat's
> >> nest......but I'll be darned if it
> isn't
> >> just fun as shit to use. The UI is wellthought out, the VFO knob is
> >> a
> work
> >> of art, (surprisingly) the compact sizemakes it more
> approachable/friendly
> >> for it, and the community here aroundit (as heated as it can get)
> >> is tighter-knit.None of those show up in a spec sheet or lab
> >> testing Get
> what
> >> makes *you*happy, and share your experience so the next ham can do
> >> the same.Cheers,JulieOn Tue, Jun 8, 2021, 21:57 Al Lorona <
> >> [hidden email]> wrote:> When this subject appeared last week
> >> I
> had
> >> composed a reply but then slept> on it and canceled it the next
> morning, as
> >> I probably do 80% of the time.>> In this my second attempt, let me
> >> say
> that
> >> I've always been amazed at the> power wielded by Rob Sherwood.
> Thousands of
> >> hams hang on his latest tests.> If he deems a new radio exceptional
> >> in
> some
> >> way, that can mean many> millions of dollars for a manufacturer.>>
> >> And
> yet,
> >> if there were no such thing as gurus on the web and at places> like
> Dayton
> >> expounding about how Brand A is better than Brand B, how would> you
> answer
> >> the questions, "Do I like this transceiver?," and, "Is it any>
> >> good?">> You'd probably get on the air and use it, and decide that
> >> way.>> But we constantly have gurus telling us that Brand A is the
> >> 'best' which> horrifies us if up until now we liked Brand B better.
> >> Against our
> personal>
> >> experience we flip-flop and say, "Gee, I used to like Brand B, but
> Brand A>
> >> must be better because the gurus say so.">> Yet, there will always
> >> be
> guys
> >> who'll be tortured owning a transceiver> that has the 2nd highest
> dynamic
> >> range, or the 3rd best distortion. Never> mind if they can't
> >> actually
> hear
> >> the differences.>> It's how a rig *sounds and feels* during actual
> >> operating that's most> important. Not the numbers. For instance,
> >> Wes
> made a
> >> comment about his> tuning knob, and although some of you might have
> laughed
> >> at that... it's> darned important! That's the kind of thing I'm
> >> talking about.>> Here's my opinion on ranking receivers by 2 kHz
> >> 3rd order
> dynamic
> >> range:> almost any modern receiver has enough dynamic range to make
> >> this
> >> ranking> more and more meaningless as time goes on. Sherwood
> >> ranking> himself has
> >> said that> 90 dB or above is plenty enough. To understand why, see
> >> this post from 2016> by one of the old guys on this reflector:>
> >>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-The-Way-We-Rank-Receivers-long
> -td7623639.html
> >>>
> >> Lastly, if you've been enjoying your rig for years and then hear
> someone>
> >> else complain about a flaw you weren't even aware of, don't panic.
> There>
> >> are a million reasons why his concerns might not involve you in the
> >> least.>> Above all, have fun.>> Al W6LX/4>
> >> ______________________________________________________________>
> >> Elecraft mailing list> Home:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:
> >> [hidden email]>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net>
> >> Please help support this email list:
> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message delivered to
> >>
> [e-mail]_________________________________________________
> _____________Elecraft
> >> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:
> [hidden email]
> >> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to
> >>
> [e-mail]________________________________________________________
> ______Elecraft
> >> mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraftHelp:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:
> [hidden email]
> >> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to
> >> [hidden email]
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> >> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> >> [hidden email]
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> > [hidden email]
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Elecraft mailing list]

Should be easy to gauge...

How "clean" (or otherwise) is his signal on your RX, with no antenna
connected, and all the RX attenuation switched in.

Perhaps also fit a well screened dummy load to the rig's antenna port(s)

Also disconnecting just about everything else except the power (and put
some ferrite on that!)

All that should greatly reduce the level of his signal that your radio
"see's" to manageable proportions.

Even turn the RF gain down too if needed.

If he's not splattering as much or at all, then it is likley your RX is
being overloaded.

If it sounds just as bad, and splattering just as wide, then likely it's
his end.

Regards to All.

Dave G8KBV



On 10/06/2021 05:01, [hidden email] wrote:
> I can't tell if it's a bad radio on his end or just front end
> overload on my end.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[N4ST - Jim]

FWIW, be careful with your measurement process.
I got very depressed when I saw that my K3S had harmonics only 20db down on most bands when measured by Tiny SA and its telescoping antenna.
It was not being overloaded and in fact I measured similar results when feeding a dummy load.
Then I went outside the shack at a distance from the antennas and found that the harmonics were 40dB down or better.
Evidently when measuring inside the shack I was getting RF leakage directly through the front panel of the rig. (?).

_______________
73,
Jim - N4ST

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 23:01
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus

Actually for this use they are...  Someone did a compare of the tinySA
to an HP, and it was within a few dB as long as it was overdriven.  We
are looking for splatter or harmonics, not doing a proof of performance.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/9/21 7:10 PM, Wes wrote:

> I'm not sure those toys are up to the task.
>
> On 6/9/2021 5:30 PM, Dave wrote:
>> Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the
>> Spectrum Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will tell you
>> if it is him, or you.
>>
>> 73, and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Contest stations operate on multiple bands from the same property  
without issue. Harmonics should only be heard on the harmonic  
frequency, not splatter across the entire band. You should not have a  
problem with a station over a mile away. What is your antenna and how  
it is fed?

John KK9A



Gwen Patton NG3P wrote:

I have one of those legal-limit hams about 2.5 km from my house. Seems a
nice enough guy, except that he uses 1.5kw for EVERYTHING. When he gets on
40m, I hear him on 2 other bands via harmonics. He splatters all over 40 so
there's no reason for me to even have my rig turned on when he starts
transmitting. I can't tell if it's a bad radio on his end or just front end
overload on my end. It's frustrating to try to do a bit of CW and find that
I can hear him almost as well on 15m as on 40 and 20. I haven't checked
10m, but my guess is I'll hear him there, too.

I talked to him about it, and he basically blamed it on my radio's
insufficient rejection. It's a KX3. Is he right, or should he check his
radio for unstable harmonics?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[NK7Z]

Interestingly enough I don't see that issue here with my K3, and tinySA.
  I also don't use the built in antenna.  I use a tap and attenuator
combination.

I am also using a non clone device, as opposed to a clone device.  Some
clones don't have the internal shielding.

Here is a compare to a clone vs a non clone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IzLAGgKg0

Here is an interesting video showing both the strengths, and weaknesses
of the tinySA.  A compare of the tinySA to an HP 8921A SA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtF2AYT0iQ

For the price, and if one is careful, and aware of how to use the
tinySA, you can gain a lot of knowledge for around 100 bucks.

I am half tempted to buy one, and add a tap to my output coax, add
power, bring it to a very low input level, and just keep the tinySA on
all the time I operate, as an alarm that I might have an issue.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/10/21 6:45 AM, N4ST - Jim wrote:

> FWIW, be careful with your measurement process.
> I got very depressed when I saw that my K3S had harmonics only 20db down on most bands when measured by Tiny SA and its telescoping antenna.
> It was not being overloaded and in fact I measured similar results when feeding a dummy load.
> Then I went outside the shack at a distance from the antennas and found that the harmonics were 40dB down or better.
> Evidently when measuring inside the shack I was getting RF leakage directly through the front panel of the rig. (?).
>
> _______________
> 73,
> Jim - N4ST
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 23:01
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus
>
> Actually for this use they are...  Someone did a compare of the tinySA
> to an HP, and it was within a few dB as long as it was overdriven.  We
> are looking for splatter or harmonics, not doing a proof of performance.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 6/9/21 7:10 PM, Wes wrote:
>> I'm not sure those toys are up to the task.
>>
>> On 6/9/2021 5:30 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the
>>> Spectrum Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will tell you
>>> if it is him, or you.
>>>
>>> 73, and thanks,
>>> Dave (NK7Z)
>>> https://www.nk7z.net
>>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[ANDY DURBIN]

"Harmonics should only be heard on the harmonic frequency, not splatter across the entire band."

That depends on whether you are talking about RF frequency harmonics or harmonics of the modulating audio frequency.  There is a plague of stations producing FT8 audio harmonics.   The problem is not helped by people insisting that the cure is proper ALC adjustment.   While there may be rigs that cause audio harmonics because of incorrect ALC adjustment it's far more likely that the clipping that causes these harmonics happens in the audio stages long before ALC is applied.

Transmitting a clean signal is the responsibility of the operator not that of the rig manufacturer or software application provider.

Andy, k3wyc
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Dean L]

After watching the video of the TinySA next to the HP8921, I can't see how
you could EVER trust the results of the toy.
I watched as OM in the video was scratching his head wondering where the
artifacts on the display of the TinySA came from.
Did I watch the wrong video? If I didn't see the image captured by the HP,
I would have comd to different conclusions.




I was not impressed:
Same author different video,

https://youtu.be/uwXUZSdxNq4

 As he changed the amplitude the harmonics generated by the TinySA changed
accordingly making the signal look "dirty"
Great tool if you have a $10k Service monitor sitting right next to it...

I understand it's $100 gizmo, but might confuse an unsuspecting operator.


I would not fault my kilobuck HF rig with this unit
YMMV

73
Dean K2WW

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:23 Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Interestingly enough I don't see that issue here with my K3, and tinySA.
>   I also don't use the built in antenna.  I use a tap and attenuator
> combination.
>
> I am also using a non clone device, as opposed to a clone device.  Some
> clones don't have the internal shielding.
>
> Here is a compare to a clone vs a non clone:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IzLAGgKg0
>
> Here is an interesting video showing both the strengths, and weaknesses
> of the tinySA.  A compare of the tinySA to an HP 8921A SA:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtF2AYT0iQ
>
> For the price, and if one is careful, and aware of how to use the
> tinySA, you can gain a lot of knowledge for around 100 bucks.
>
> I am half tempted to buy one, and add a tap to my output coax, add
> power, bring it to a very low input level, and just keep the tinySA on
> all the time I operate, as an alarm that I might have an issue.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 6/10/21 6:45 AM, N4ST - Jim wrote:
> > FWIW, be careful with your measurement process.
> > I got very depressed when I saw that my K3S had harmonics only 20db down
> on most bands when measured by Tiny SA and its telescoping antenna.
> > It was not being overloaded and in fact I measured similar results when
> feeding a dummy load.
> > Then I went outside the shack at a distance from the antennas and found
> that the harmonics were 40dB down or better.
> > Evidently when measuring inside the shack I was getting RF leakage
> directly through the front panel of the rig. (?).
> >
> > _______________
> > 73,
> > Jim - N4ST
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> On Behalf Of Dave
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 23:01
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus
> >
> > Actually for this use they are...  Someone did a compare of the tinySA
> > to an HP, and it was within a few dB as long as it was overdriven.  We
> > are looking for splatter or harmonics, not doing a proof of performance.
> >
> > 73, and thanks,
> > Dave (NK7Z)
> > https://www.nk7z.net
> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >
> > On 6/9/21 7:10 PM, Wes wrote:
> >> I'm not sure those toys are up to the task.
> >>
> >> On 6/9/2021 5:30 PM, Dave wrote:
> >>> Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the
> >>> Spectrum Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will tell you
> >>> if it is him, or you.
> >>>
> >>> 73, and thanks,
> >>> Dave (NK7Z)
> >>> https://www.nk7z.net
> >>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> >>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> >>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[NK7Z]

My response was regarding the post talking about operators, see quoted
text quote in my response.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/9/21 6:03 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:

> It wasn't about the operator, it was about the hardware. I talked to the
> ham involved, and he's a nice enough bloke. I have no beef with him.
>
> My antennas are, unfortunately, not designed with a useful null. I have an
> end feed W3EDP style that works very well, and a Comet CHA-250B vertical.
> Neither can reasonably be pointed to attenuate the signal.
>
> Gwen, NG3P
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 8:51 PM Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I must respectfully disagree sir...
>>
>> The ordinary ham should be able to tell when his/her rig is out of spec.
>>    The ordinary ham should be able to operate his/her rig correctly.
>> That is just no longer the case.  There are a lot of folks out there
>> that don't even know how a repeater works at the most basic of levels.
>> They are operating HF rigs with no understanding of how they work, and
>> no understanding of what limits they need to maintain.
>>
>> They create a mess on the air, and should be told about it.  Nicely, but
>> told non the less.  It is far better to have a fellow ham tell you you
>> have an issue, than have the FCC tell you...
>>
>> Speaking of the FCC, I don't remember the FCC turning over
>> responsibility for signal quality to the manufactures of radios,
>> absolving the operator of all responsibility...  It is the operators job
>> to make sure he/she is operating their radio correctly, and within
>> tolerance, period, end of discussion, the operator is responsible.
>>
>> If he/she can not tell there is a problem, than that ham should not be
>> allowed to transmit...
>>
>> There are dirty transmitters all over, and they meet FCC specs...  How
>> can that be you might ask yourself?
>>
>> In a lot of cases, the operator is not knowledgeable in how to drive the
>> transmitter properly, or that low voltages feeding the transmitter can
>> cause issues, or that triggering ALC in FT8 causes issues, there are any
>> number of settings the Amateur can screw up, and the rig meets FCC
>> specs...
>>
>> So no, it is not "out of line" to let someone know their transmitter is
>> spraying crap.
>>
>> On 6/9/21 5:02 PM, Richards wrote:
>>> Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply
>>> out of line.
>>>
>>> The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in
>>> good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards. He
>>> uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems. But
>>> then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor operator as a
>>> bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is
>>> somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded
>>> conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined
>>> about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed experts
>>> living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic.
>>> Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current
>>> topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   I
>>> suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk about.
>>>
>>> Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of
>>> personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE
>>> OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a
>>> hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right.
>>> Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> Dave
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Julia Tuttle]

I'm confused, I don't see any quoted text, unless you meant just "dirty
transmitter". Whose post were you responding to?

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 14:26 Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My response was regarding the post talking about operators, see quoted
> text quote in my response.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 6/9/21 6:03 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:
> > It wasn't about the operator, it was about the hardware. I talked to the
> > ham involved, and he's a nice enough bloke. I have no beef with him.
> >
> > My antennas are, unfortunately, not designed with a useful null. I have
> an
> > end feed W3EDP style that works very well, and a Comet CHA-250B vertical.
> > Neither can reasonably be pointed to attenuate the signal.
> >
> > Gwen, NG3P
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 8:51 PM Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I must respectfully disagree sir...
> >>
> >> The ordinary ham should be able to tell when his/her rig is out of spec.
> >>    The ordinary ham should be able to operate his/her rig correctly.
> >> That is just no longer the case.  There are a lot of folks out there
> >> that don't even know how a repeater works at the most basic of levels.
> >> They are operating HF rigs with no understanding of how they work, and
> >> no understanding of what limits they need to maintain.
> >>
> >> They create a mess on the air, and should be told about it.  Nicely, but
> >> told non the less.  It is far better to have a fellow ham tell you you
> >> have an issue, than have the FCC tell you...
> >>
> >> Speaking of the FCC, I don't remember the FCC turning over
> >> responsibility for signal quality to the manufactures of radios,
> >> absolving the operator of all responsibility...  It is the operators job
> >> to make sure he/she is operating their radio correctly, and within
> >> tolerance, period, end of discussion, the operator is responsible.
> >>
> >> If he/she can not tell there is a problem, than that ham should not be
> >> allowed to transmit...
> >>
> >> There are dirty transmitters all over, and they meet FCC specs...  How
> >> can that be you might ask yourself?
> >>
> >> In a lot of cases, the operator is not knowledgeable in how to drive the
> >> transmitter properly, or that low voltages feeding the transmitter can
> >> cause issues, or that triggering ALC in FT8 causes issues, there are any
> >> number of settings the Amateur can screw up, and the rig meets FCC
> >> specs...
> >>
> >> So no, it is not "out of line" to let someone know their transmitter is
> >> spraying crap.
> >>
> >> On 6/9/21 5:02 PM, Richards wrote:
> >>> Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is simply
> >>> out of line.
> >>>
> >>> The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his rig in
> >>> good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering standards. He
> >>> uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing problems. But
> >>> then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor operator as
> a
> >>> bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is
> >>> somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded
> >>> conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined
> >>> about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed experts
> >>> living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible epidemic.
> >>> Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current
> >>> topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the time.   I
> >>> suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to talk
> about.
> >>>
> >>> Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of
> >>> personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE
> >>> OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a
> >>> hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right.
> >>> Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >> Dave
> >> https://www.nk7z.net
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[NK7Z]

Who said it was a trustworthy device?  I did not indicate you should
trust it, I indicated it has use as an indicator of possible problems...
  You are responding to perhaps someone else?

Here is the quote from my post:
 >Here is an interesting video showing both the strengths, and
weaknesses >of the tinySA.  A compare of the tinySA to an HP 8921A SA:
 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtF2AYT0iQ
 >
 >For the price, and if one is careful, and aware of how to use the
<tinySA, you can gain a lot of knowledge for around 100 bucks.
 >
 >I am half tempted to buy one, and add a tap to my output coax, add
 >power, bring it to a very low input level, and just keep the tinySA on
 >all the time I operate, as an alarm that I might have an issue.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/10/21 10:58 AM, Dean L wrote:

> After watching the video of the TinySA next to the HP8921, I can't see
> how you could EVER trust the results of the toy.
> I watched as OM in the video was scratching his head wondering where the
> artifacts on the display of the TinySA came from.
> Did I watch the wrong video? If I didn't see the image captured by the
> HP, I would have comd to different conclusions.
>
>
>
>
> I was not impressed:
> Same author different video,
>
> https://youtu.be/uwXUZSdxNq4 <https://youtu.be/uwXUZSdxNq4>
>
>   As he changed the amplitude the harmonics generated by the TinySA
> changed accordingly making the signal look "dirty"
> Great tool if you have a $10k Service monitor sitting right next to it...
>
> I understand it's $100 gizmo, but might confuse an unsuspecting operator.
>
>
> I would not fault my kilobuck HF rig with this unit
> YMMV
>
> 73
> Dean K2WW
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:23 Dave <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
>
>     Interestingly enough I don't see that issue here with my K3, and
>     tinySA.
>        I also don't use the built in antenna.  I use a tap and attenuator
>     combination.
>
>     I am also using a non clone device, as opposed to a clone device.  Some
>     clones don't have the internal shielding.
>
>     Here is a compare to a clone vs a non clone:
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IzLAGgKg0
>     <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IzLAGgKg0>
>
>     Here is an interesting video showing both the strengths, and weaknesses
>     of the tinySA.  A compare of the tinySA to an HP 8921A SA:
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtF2AYT0iQ
>     <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtF2AYT0iQ>
>
>     For the price, and if one is careful, and aware of how to use the
>     tinySA, you can gain a lot of knowledge for around 100 bucks.
>
>     I am half tempted to buy one, and add a tap to my output coax, add
>     power, bring it to a very low input level, and just keep the tinySA on
>     all the time I operate, as an alarm that I might have an issue.
>
>     73, and thanks,
>     Dave (NK7Z)
>     https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>     ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>     ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>     ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
>     On 6/10/21 6:45 AM, N4ST - Jim wrote:
>      > FWIW, be careful with your measurement process.
>      > I got very depressed when I saw that my K3S had harmonics only
>     20db down on most bands when measured by Tiny SA and its telescoping
>     antenna.
>      > It was not being overloaded and in fact I measured similar
>     results when feeding a dummy load.
>      > Then I went outside the shack at a distance from the antennas and
>     found that the harmonics were 40dB down or better.
>      > Evidently when measuring inside the shack I was getting RF
>     leakage directly through the front panel of the rig. (?).
>      >
>      > _______________
>      > 73,
>      > Jim - N4ST
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> On Behalf Of Dave
>      > Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 23:01
>      > To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Gurus
>      >
>      > Actually for this use they are...  Someone did a compare of the
>     tinySA
>      > to an HP, and it was within a few dB as long as it was
>     overdriven.  We
>      > are looking for splatter or harmonics, not doing a proof of
>     performance.
>      >
>      > 73, and thanks,
>      > Dave (NK7Z)
>      > https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>      > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>      > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>      > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>      >
>      > On 6/9/21 7:10 PM, Wes wrote:
>      >> I'm not sure those toys are up to the task.
>      >>
>      >> On 6/9/2021 5:30 PM, Dave wrote:
>      >>> Buy an attenuator, and a tinySA, or get an SDRPlay, and run the
>      >>> Spectrum Analyzer software.  Take a few SA shots, that will
>     tell you
>      >>> if it is him, or you.
>      >>>
>      >>> 73, and thanks,
>      >>> Dave (NK7Z)
>      >>> https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>      >>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>      >>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>      >>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>      >> ______________________________________________________________
>      >> Elecraft mailing list
>      >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>      >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>      >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >>
>      >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>      >> Please help support this email list:
>     http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>      >> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      > ______________________________________________________________
>      > Elecraft mailing list
>      > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>      > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>      > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >
>      > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>      > Please help support this email list:
>     http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>      > Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>     Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>     Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Gwen Patton]

Yes, precisely!

This CW signal was so normal on 15 meters that I tried replying to it. Then
I realized whose signal it was, and checked 40m, and there was the REAL
signal. That's why I said it was splattering all over. The audio was
slathered all over 40m for half the allocation, up into the phone segment
and below 7 mhz downward. But the RF was so clear 3 bands away that I
thought he was transmitting there. But I'm not as up on what can cause
that, and thought it might be something on MY end, so I didn't want to lay
anything even remotely like blame on anyone. For all I knew, it was
something weird with my antenna, or my radio, or something else, like
resonance with a guy wire (I've heard of that happening).

I'm not trying to badmouth anyone, I was just shocked that the signal was
SO pervasive!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
73,
Gwen, NG3P


On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 1:06 PM Andy Durbin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Harmonics should only be heard on the harmonic frequency, not splatter
> across the entire band."
>
> That depends on whether you are talking about RF frequency harmonics or
> harmonics of the modulating audio frequency.  There is a plague of stations
> producing FT8 audio harmonics.   The problem is not helped by people
> insisting that the cure is proper ALC adjustment.   While there may be rigs
> that cause audio harmonics because of incorrect ALC adjustment it's far
> more likely that the clipping that causes these harmonics happens in the
> audio stages long before ALC is applied.
>
> Transmitting a clean signal is the responsibility of the operator not that
> of the rig manufacturer or software application provider.
>
> Andy, k3wyc
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[NK7Z]

Hi Julia,

Now I am confused...  I quoted the text I was responding to, then
referenced that quote...  Your reply included the quoted text and my
reference to it.

In any case I was replying to Gwen's response at 6:03 PM, quoted here,
in my initial response, and in your response...

Here it is broken out from the quot mess:
On 6/9/21 6:03 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:
It wasn't about the operator, it was about the hardware.


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/10/21 11:30 AM, Julia Tuttle wrote:

> I'm confused, I don't see any quoted text, unless you meant just "dirty
> transmitter". Whose post were you responding to?
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 14:26 Dave <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
>
>     My response was regarding the post talking about operators, see quoted
>     text quote in my response.
>
>     73, and thanks,
>     Dave (NK7Z)
>     https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>     ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>     ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>     ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
>     On 6/9/21 6:03 PM, Gwen Patton wrote:
>      > It wasn't about the operator, it was about the hardware. I talked
>     to the
>      > ham involved, and he's a nice enough bloke. I have no beef with him.
>      >
>      > My antennas are, unfortunately, not designed with a useful null.
>     I have an
>      > end feed W3EDP style that works very well, and a Comet CHA-250B
>     vertical.
>      > Neither can reasonably be pointed to attenuate the signal.
>      >
>      > Gwen, NG3P
>      >
>      >
>      > On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 8:51 PM Dave <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>      >
>      >> I must respectfully disagree sir...
>      >>
>      >> The ordinary ham should be able to tell when his/her rig is out
>     of spec.
>      >>    The ordinary ham should be able to operate his/her rig correctly.
>      >> That is just no longer the case.  There are a lot of folks out there
>      >> that don't even know how a repeater works at the most basic of
>     levels.
>      >> They are operating HF rigs with no understanding of how they
>     work, and
>      >> no understanding of what limits they need to maintain.
>      >>
>      >> They create a mess on the air, and should be told about it.
>     Nicely, but
>      >> told non the less.  It is far better to have a fellow ham tell
>     you you
>      >> have an issue, than have the FCC tell you...
>      >>
>      >> Speaking of the FCC, I don't remember the FCC turning over
>      >> responsibility for signal quality to the manufactures of radios,
>      >> absolving the operator of all responsibility...  It is the
>     operators job
>      >> to make sure he/she is operating their radio correctly, and within
>      >> tolerance, period, end of discussion, the operator is responsible.
>      >>
>      >> If he/she can not tell there is a problem, than that ham should
>     not be
>      >> allowed to transmit...
>      >>
>      >> There are dirty transmitters all over, and they meet FCC
>     specs...  How
>      >> can that be you might ask yourself?
>      >>
>      >> In a lot of cases, the operator is not knowledgeable in how to
>     drive the
>      >> transmitter properly, or that low voltages feeding the
>     transmitter can
>      >> cause issues, or that triggering ALC in FT8 causes issues, there
>     are any
>      >> number of settings the Amateur can screw up, and the rig meets FCC
>      >> specs...
>      >>
>      >> So no, it is not "out of line" to let someone know their
>     transmitter is
>      >> spraying crap.
>      >>
>      >> On 6/9/21 5:02 PM, Richards wrote:
>      >>> Anyone condemning other hams for using "dirty transmitters"  is
>     simply
>      >>> out of line.
>      >>>
>      >>> The ordinary ham is NOT an Electrical Engineer and he buys his
>     rig in
>      >>> good faith, believing it passed FCC and other engineering
>     standards. He
>      >>> uses it in good faith, assuming it is OK and not causing
>     problems. But
>      >>> then, a few self-appointed Frequency Cops condemn the poor
>     operator as a
>      >>> bad citizen for using a "dirty transmitter"  as if the operator is
>      >>> somehow to blame.   I have worked a lot of contests with crowded
>      >>> conditions in a large metropolitan area, and nobody has ever whined
>      >>> about any of this, notwithstanding a couple of self-appointed
>     experts
>      >>> living in the mountains of CA and CO claim it is a horrible
>     epidemic.
>      >>> Besides, if this was such big problem why is it such a new, current
>      >>> topic? Supposedly, all those old rigs have been noisy all the
>     time.   I
>      >>> suspect it is topical only because they have nothing else to
>     talk about.
>      >>>
>      >>> Well, even if it is a problem, there is no place for this sort of
>      >>> personal attack in ham radio, AND IT IS SIMPLY WRONG TO BLAME THE
>      >>> OPERATOR for how his rig works.   For most ops, ham radio is just a
>      >>> hobby and they are entitled to expect their radios will work right.
>      >>> Blaming the operator is simply out of line.   K8JHR
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>> ______________________________________________________________
>      >>> Elecraft mailing list
>      >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>      >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>      >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >>>
>      >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>      >>> Please help support this email list:
>     http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>      >>> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >> Dave
>      >> https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
>      >>
>      >> ______________________________________________________________
>      >> Elecraft mailing list
>      >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>      >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>      >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >>
>      >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>      >> Please help support this email list:
>     http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>      >> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      > ______________________________________________________________
>      > Elecraft mailing list
>      > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>      > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>      > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >
>      > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>      > Please help support this email list:
>     http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>      > Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      >
>     ______________________________________________________________
>     Elecraft mailing list
>     Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
>     Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>     <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>     Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>     This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>
>     Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>     <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>
>     Message delivered to [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Wes Stewart-2]

Dean's making the case I thought to make.  Couldn't agree more.

Dave said: "Here is an interesting video showing both the strengths, and
weaknesses of the tinySA.

I looked at the videos and said, "Okay, where are the strengths?"

I spent a lot of years sitting in front of spectrum analyzers. One of the first
things you want to do after
displaying signals of interest is to adjust the input attenuator up or down. If
you add or remove10 dB of attenuation
and ALL of the signals do not change by exactly 10 dB, you have a linearity
problem at that setting.  Don't use it, or
if you do, understand that you are getting bogus answers.

Likewise, if you have a really clean, stable source like a quality OCXO with
published phase noise specs and you
measure it with your SA and it looks other than that, you're measuring your SA's
shortcomings.  That's okay as
long as you understand them.

Wes  N7WS



On 6/10/2021 10:58 AM, Dean L wrote:

> After watching the video of the TinySA next to the HP8921, I can't see how
> you could EVER trust the results of the toy.
> I watched as OM in the video was scratching his head wondering where the
> artifacts on the display of the TinySA came from.
> Did I watch the wrong video? If I didn't see the image captured by the HP,
> I would have comd to different conclusions.
>
>
>
>
> I was not impressed:
> Same author different video,
>
> https://youtu.be/uwXUZSdxNq4
>
>   As he changed the amplitude the harmonics generated by the TinySA changed
> accordingly making the signal look "dirty"
> Great tool if you have a $10k Service monitor sitting right next to it...
>
> I understand it's $100 gizmo, but might confuse an unsuspecting operator.
>
>
> I would not fault my kilobuck HF rig with this unit
> YMMV
>
> 73
> Dean K2WW
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 10:23 Dave <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Interestingly enough I don't see that issue here with my K3, and tinySA.
>>    I also don't use the built in antenna.  I use a tap and attenuator
>> combination.
>>
>> I am also using a non clone device, as opposed to a clone device.  Some
>> clones don't have the internal shielding.
>>
>> Here is a compare to a clone vs a non clone:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IzLAGgKg0
>>
>> Here is an interesting video showing both the strengths, and weaknesses
>> of the tinySA.  A compare of the tinySA to an HP 8921A SA:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtF2AYT0iQ
>>
>> For the price, and if one is careful, and aware of how to use the
>> tinySA, you can gain a lot of knowledge for around 100 bucks.
>>
>> I am half tempted to buy one, and add a tap to my output coax, add
>> power, bring it to a very low input level, and just keep the tinySA on
>> all the time I operate, as an alarm that I might have an issue.
>>
>> 73, and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Josh Fiden]

This discussion reminds me quite a few years back I was running a 756Pro and PW-1. Steve K6UM, a neighbor at the time, contacted me and said I had bad key clicks. I was glad he did. We got on the phone, made adjustments and resolved it. Prior to that I didn’t know the default CW rise time was way too fast and that letting ALC control exciter power was a terrible idea. I LEARNED something and it was FUN. When I stop learning things and having fun, I will leave this hobby. Not likely!

From the Amateur’s Code. Seems as valid today as ever.

The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE...He/[She] never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

PROGRESSIVE...He/[She] keeps his/[her] station up to date.  It is well-built and efficient.  His/[Her] operating practice is above reproach.

FRIENDLY...He/[She] operates slowly and patiently when requested; offers friendly advice and counsel to beginners; kind assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the marks of the amateur spirit.

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my iPad
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Dean L]

looked at the videos and said, "Okay, where are the strengths?"

the fact that it's $100
Not looking to wage war just stating facts
The first rules of using test equipment you got to trust it...

73 all
Dean

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021, 15:26 Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dean's making the case I thought to make.  Couldn't agree more.
>
> Dave said: "Here is an interesting video showing both
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Jim Brown-10]

On 6/10/2021 7:17 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Contest stations operate on multiple bands from the same property
> without issue. Harmonics should only be heard on the harmonic frequency,
> not splatter across the entire band. You should not have a problem with
> a station over a mile away. What is your antenna and how it is fed?

YES. Here are slides from a talk I gave at Visalia two years ago on what
it takes for multiple stations to operate in close proximity on the same
band.
http://k9yc.com/Multi-Station.pdf

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]