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HI Current

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Bruce Chadbourne

HI Current

To the list:

I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR is
too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU which
confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?

--
Bruce KE1CY
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Bob KD7YZ

Re: HI Current

Bruce tapped out:

> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
> power back about 10% from 100w. ........ I run the ATU which
> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
.
fwiw, my K3 is doing this quite often lately. I see it thru the KAT500
as well as the Palstar-AT-2K. Occasional, sometimes several in a row, when
the VSWR is 1.5:1 or less

--
73
KD7YZ Bob

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KEN-3

Re: HI Current

Same here, usually with the tuner showing an SWR of 1.2 or so. This never happened in the past, I wonder if it is related to a software update?

I have to cut the power back, usually under 60 watts for it to go away.

Ken WA8JXM

> On Dec 14, 2014, at 10:56 PM, KD7YZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bruce tapped out:
>
>> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
>> power back about 10% from 100w. ........ I run the ATU which
>> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
> .
> fwiw, my K3 is doing this quite often lately. I see it thru the KAT500
> as well as the Palstar-AT-2K. Occasional, sometimes several in a row, when
> the VSWR is 1.5:1 or less

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vk2rq

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Maybe there is not enough voltage at the power input to the radio — possibly due to high resistance at your power connections or in your fuse holders?

73, Matt VK2RQ

> On 15 Dec 2014, at 8:18 am, Bruce Chadbourne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> To the list:
>
> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
> power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR is
> too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU which
> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
> So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?
>
> --
> Bruce KE1CY
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Bob KD7YZ

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Bob KD7YZ

KD7YZ tapped out:

I see my email-er somehow sent and resent the reply. no idea why,
however, I apologize for the hassle.

--
73
KD7YZ Bob

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Eric Ross-2

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by vk2rq

I see the same thing, but only on 10m. I just assumed (possibly erroneously) the power indication was not accurate and used the indicated 100w. I don't have an external wattmeter to validate. My antenna is tuned for 20m so tuning it is not that hard on 10m.

Eric
wb7sde

On December 14, 2014 9:23:15 PM PST, Matt VK2RQ <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Maybe there is not enough voltage at the power input to the radio —
>possibly due to high resistance at your power connections or in your
>fuse holders?
>
>73, Matt VK2RQ
>
>
>> On 15 Dec 2014, at 8:18 am, Bruce Chadbourne
><[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> To the list:
>>
>> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts
>my
>> power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR
>is
>> too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU
>which
>> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
>> So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?
>>
>> --
>> Bruce KE1CY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: HI Current

Matt is entirely correct. The first thing to investigate in the event
of a Hi Current message is the voltage (as indicated by the K3) level
during transmit.

The way Elecraft transceivers control power, a low voltage means that
higher current must be obtained to maintain the requested power output
level.

Common causes are loose connections at the power supply, improperly
assembled Anderson PowerPole connectors, and either long power supply
cables or too small a wire gauge resulting in significant voltage drop
when current is drawn.

This applies not only to the K3, but also to the KXPA100 and the K2/100.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/15/2014 8:52 AM, Eric Ross wrote:

> I see the same thing, but only on 10m. I just assumed (possibly erroneously) the power indication was not accurate and used the indicated 100w. I don't have an external wattmeter to validate. My antenna is tuned for 20m so tuning it is not that hard on 10m.
>
> Eric
> wb7sde
>
> On December 14, 2014 9:23:15 PM PST, Matt VK2RQ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Maybe there is not enough voltage at the power input to the radio —
>> possibly due to high resistance at your power connections or in your
>> fuse holders?
>>
>> 73, Matt VK2RQ
>>
>>
>>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Bruce,

I would expect a Hi REFL message rather than Hi Cur if SWR was the problem.
Check your power supply connections. If you have bolts and nuts on the
power supply output terminals, if the bolts turn (even slightly) when
you tighten the nuts, you will have to dig inside the power supply to
fully tighten the bolts to the lugs on the inside.

With Elecraft gear, a low power supply voltage will result in a higher
current draw from the power supply. Elecraft gear seeks to maintain the
requested power output, and a low supply voltage means that the current
must increase to maintain the power level.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/14/2014 4:18 PM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
> power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR is
> too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU which
> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
> So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?
>

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KEN-3

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

In my case, the K3’s internal volt meter is indicating 12.1v, well above the minimum specs. I am pretty sure this only happens on 20m, never on other bands. I wouldn’t think supply voltage would be band selective. I’m using the power cable that came with the K3.

Ken WA8JXM

> On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Matt is entirely correct. The first thing to investigate in the event of a Hi Current message is the voltage (as indicated by the K3) level during transmit.
>
> The way Elecraft transceivers control power, a low voltage means that higher current must be obtained to maintain the requested power output level.
>
> Common causes are loose connections at the power supply, improperly assembled Anderson PowerPole connectors, and either long power supply cables or too small a wire gauge resulting in significant voltage drop when current is drawn.
>
> This applies not only to the K3, but also to the KXPA100 and the K2/100.
>
> 73,

KEN-3

Re: HI Current

Mike,

It’s not “voltage starved.” I just went through and documented everything. Voltage measured by the K3 never gets below 13.1 volts. The problem is ONLY on 20m where “high current” displays at 65 watts. And indeed it is comparatively high current, 23.5 amps. On the other bands I can run 100w without the current getting that high.

ALL TESTS DONE WITH A DUMMY LOAD (or a live antenna and the internal antenna tuner or an external antenna tuner.)

I wonder if the other people experiencing the high current message are seeing it on other bands, or only 20m.

Ken WA8JXM

> On Dec 15, 2014, at 12:20 PM, Mike Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It isn't, however, the load on the PA is band selective depending upon the antenna match and this can effect the current. 12.1v is forcing the PA to draw more current to deliver the power requested. Any particular reason you are running voltage starved?
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike VP8NO
>
> On 15/12/2014 14:03, Ken wrote:
>> In my case, the K3’s internal volt meter is indicating 12.1v, well above the minimum specs. I am pretty sure this only happens on 20m, never on other bands. I wouldn’t think supply voltage would be band selective. I’m using the power cable that came with the K3.
>>
>> Ken WA8JXM
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Matt is entirely correct. The first thing to investigate in the event of a Hi Current message is the voltage (as indicated by the K3) level during transmit.
>>>
>>> The way Elecraft transceivers control power, a low voltage means that higher current must be obtained to maintain the requested power output level.
>>>
>>> Common causes are loose connections at the power supply, improperly assembled Anderson PowerPole connectors, and either long power supply cables or too small a wire gauge resulting in significant voltage drop when current is drawn.
>>>
>>> This applies not only to the K3, but also to the KXPA100 and the K2/100.
>>>
>>> 73,

vk2rq

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by KEN-3

Is that 12.1V reading during receive or transmit (the voltage will tend to sag when pulling higher currents during transmit)? I don't have a K3, but I do have a KXPA100, and I find that it will not develop a full 100W if I only feed it only 12V -- it works much better with a supply of 14V.

The impedance of the antenna will vary from band to band -- if the impedance happens to work out lower on 20m than on the other bands, then the extra current draw on that band together with the supply voltage at the low end of the range may be enough to trip the high current alarm in your PA.

73,
Matt VK2RQ

> On 16 Dec 2014, at 4:03 am, Ken <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In my case, the K3’s internal volt meter is indicating 12.1v, well above the minimum specs. I am pretty sure this only happens on 20m, never on other bands. I wouldn’t think supply voltage would be band selective. I’m using the power cable that came with the K3.
>
> Ken WA8JXM
>
>
>> On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Matt is entirely correct. The first thing to investigate in the event of a Hi Current message is the voltage (as indicated by the K3) level during transmit.
>>
>> The way Elecraft transceivers control power, a low voltage means that higher current must be obtained to maintain the requested power output level.
>>
>> Common causes are loose connections at the power supply, improperly assembled Anderson PowerPole connectors, and either long power supply cables or too small a wire gauge resulting in significant voltage drop when current is drawn.
>>
>> This applies not only to the K3, but also to the KXPA100 and the K2/100.
>>
>> 73,
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by KEN-3

Ken,

Now that I see some numbers and know that you are running into a dummy
load, it would appear that you have a low pass filter problem on 20 meters.

I suggest you contact K3support. A common cause of HiCurrent is a
problem in one of the Low Pass Filters. Support may be able to lead you
through determination if that is really the problem and if so, is it in
the low power 20 meter LPF or in the KPA3 LPF.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/15/2014 3:57 PM, Ken wrote:

> Mike,
>
> It’s not “voltage starved.” I just went through and documented everything. Voltage measured by the K3 never gets below 13.1 volts. The problem is ONLY on 20m where “high current” displays at 65 watts. And indeed it is comparatively high current, 23.5 amps. On the other bands I can run 100w without the current getting that high.
>
> ALL TESTS DONE WITH A DUMMY LOAD (or a live antenna and the internal antenna tuner or an external antenna tuner.)
>
> I wonder if the other people experiencing the high current message are seeing it on other bands, or only 20m.
>
> Ken WA8JXM
>
>
>> On Dec 15, 2014, at 12:20 PM, Mike Harris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It isn't, however, the load on the PA is band selective depending upon the antenna match and this can effect the current. 12.1v is forcing the PA to draw more current to deliver the power requested. Any particular reason you are running voltage starved?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike VP8NO
>>
>> On 15/12/2014 14:03, Ken wrote:
>>> In my case, the K3’s internal volt meter is indicating 12.1v, well above the minimum specs. I am pretty sure this only happens on 20m, never on other bands. I wouldn’t think supply voltage would be band selective. I’m using the power cable that came with the K3.
>>>
>>> Ken WA8JXM
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Matt is entirely correct. The first thing to investigate in the event of a Hi Current message is the voltage (as indicated by the K3) level during transmit.
>>>>
>>>> The way Elecraft transceivers control power, a low voltage means that higher current must be obtained to maintain the requested power output level.
>>>>
>>>> Common causes are loose connections at the power supply, improperly assembled Anderson PowerPole connectors, and either long power supply cables or too small a wire gauge resulting in significant voltage drop when current is drawn.
>>>>
>>>> This applies not only to the K3, but also to the KXPA100 and the K2/100.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bruce Chadbourne

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don, et. al.
Thanks for the replies. I can repeat this problem (a good thing) at 20m CW
around 14.115 Mhz.
Power supply (Astron VS-35M, front panel meters) showing proper voltage,
and current knob set toward max.
At 14.050, SWR reads 1.0 on the K3. Power set at 100w. Voltage reads 13.8v,
then with key down, K3 meter says 23 amps, voltage drops to 12.6v No HI
CUR warning.

At 14.115, SWR still 1.0, 100 watts, 13.8v, put the key down, the HI CUR
warning appears most of the time (so I can't read voltage/amp on K3 meter).
One time it didn't show, and current was still 23-ish amps, and voltage
12.6; at which point I realized the rig had automatically reduced power
from 100 to 88 watts. The ammeter on the Power supply reads about 17 amps
at both freqs, with and without HI CUR warning. The power supply voltage
meter does not show the deflection below 13v, stays rock steady. That seems
to say the voltage drop under load is happening at the terminals or power
cord

Per your suggestion I checked the lugs on the back of the power supply -
very firm, but I guess I'll disconnect the leads and clean them and repeat
the test.
I guess my question to the experts in the group: does a 1.2 volt drop at
the rig sound normal at 100w? I am using the power lead that came with the
K3 kit; it looks healthy, hasn't been out of the shack on any field day ops

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Bruce,
>
> I would expect a Hi REFL message rather than Hi Cur if SWR was the problem.
> Check your power supply connections. If you have bolts and nuts on the
> power supply output terminals, if the bolts turn (even slightly) when you
> tighten the nuts, you will have to dig inside the power supply to fully
> tighten the bolts to the lugs on the inside.
>
> With Elecraft gear, a low power supply voltage will result in a higher
> current draw from the power supply. Elecraft gear seeks to maintain the
> requested power output, and a low supply voltage means that the current
> must increase to maintain the power level.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> On 12/14/2014 4:18 PM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:
>
>> To the list:
>>
>> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
>> power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR is
>> too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU which
>> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
>> So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?
>>
>>
>

--
Bruce Chadbourne PgMP
1034 W Beagle Run Loop
Hernando, FL 34442
352-453-5456

If urgent, the best way to reach me is by phone. Thank you.
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Bruce Chadbourne

Re: HI Current

Gerry responded to me off-list (below). I think your "Siri translation"
meant reseating all plugs on the K3 and and maybe "Colex" was "coax." In
response, yes I think I'm ok on those two points but will keep my eyes
open. Interesting that a couple other guys are seeing this. So far I think
it's only 20m; again, I'll have to keep a better system log.

Somebody else mentioned the Anderson pole connector - I've been in good
shape for several years so I expect it had been assembled correctly; but
I'm wondering if the connector surfaces are known for oxidizing?
Bruce / KE1CY

"I have not been following all of the messages in this thread, so if I am
repeating something I am sorry. Have you checked grounds? Also have you
checked to make sure that all of the Colex connectors are tight and have
you tried receiving all of the plugs on the K-3? Thank you and Merry
Christmas from WB6 I VfI am dictating this message through Siri, so I
apologize for spelling and grammar.

Sent from my iPhone this time"

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 2:26 AM, Gerry leary <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> I have not been following all of the messages in this thread, so if I am
> repeating something I am sorry. Have you checked grounds? Also have you
> checked to make sure that all of the Colex connectors are tight and have
> you tried receiving all of the plugs on the K-3? Thank you and Merry
> Christmas from WB6 I VfI am dictating this message through Siri, so I
> apologize for spelling and grammar.
>
> Sent from my iPhone this time
>
> > On Dec 15, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Bruce Chadbourne <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Don, et. al.
> > Thanks for the replies. I can repeat this problem (a good thing) at 20m
> CW
> > around 14.115 Mhz.
> > Power supply (Astron VS-35M, front panel meters) showing proper voltage,
> > and current knob set toward max.
> > At 14.050, SWR reads 1.0 on the K3. Power set at 100w. Voltage reads
> 13.8v,
> > then with key down, K3 meter says 23 amps, voltage drops to 12.6v No
> HI
> > CUR warning.
> >
> > At 14.115, SWR still 1.0, 100 watts, 13.8v, put the key down, the HI CUR
> > warning appears most of the time (so I can't read voltage/amp on K3
> meter).
> > One time it didn't show, and current was still 23-ish amps, and voltage
> > 12.6; at which point I realized the rig had automatically reduced power
> > from 100 to 88 watts. The ammeter on the Power supply reads about 17
> amps
> > at both freqs, with and without HI CUR warning. The power supply voltage
> > meter does not show the deflection below 13v, stays rock steady. That
> seems
> > to say the voltage drop under load is happening at the terminals or power
> > cord
> >
> > Per your suggestion I checked the lugs on the back of the power supply -
> > very firm, but I guess I'll disconnect the leads and clean them and
> repeat
> > the test.
> > I guess my question to the experts in the group: does a 1.2 volt drop at
> > the rig sound normal at 100w? I am using the power lead that came with
> the
> > K3 kit; it looks healthy, hasn't been out of the shack on any field day
> ops
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Bruce,
> >>
> >> I would expect a Hi REFL message rather than Hi Cur if SWR was the
> problem.
> >> Check your power supply connections. If you have bolts and nuts on the
> >> power supply output terminals, if the bolts turn (even slightly) when
> you
> >> tighten the nuts, you will have to dig inside the power supply to fully
> >> tighten the bolts to the lugs on the inside.
> >>
> >> With Elecraft gear, a low power supply voltage will result in a higher
> >> current draw from the power supply. Elecraft gear seeks to maintain the
> >> requested power output, and a low supply voltage means that the current
> >> must increase to maintain the power level.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Don W3FPR
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 12/14/2014 4:18 PM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To the list:
> >>>
> >>> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
> >>> power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR
> is
> >>> too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU
> which
> >>> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
> >>> So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Chadbourne PgMP
> > 1034 W Beagle Run Loop
> > Hernando, FL 34442
> > 352-453-5456
> >
> > If urgent, the best way to reach me is by phone. Thank you.
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Bruce,

It would appear to me that something has happened in your 20 meter Low
Pass Filter.
The K3 should develop 100 watts with about 17 amps of current. As I
indicated previously, the most common problem would be with the LPF.
Contact K3support for additional assistance and steps to resolution.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/15/2014 9:19 PM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:

> Don, et. al.
> Thanks for the replies. I can repeat this problem (a good thing) at 20m CW
> around 14.115 Mhz.
> Power supply (Astron VS-35M, front panel meters) showing proper voltage,
> and current knob set toward max.
> At 14.050, SWR reads 1.0 on the K3. Power set at 100w. Voltage reads 13.8v,
> then with key down, K3 meter says 23 amps, voltage drops to 12.6v No HI
> CUR warning.
>
> At 14.115, SWR still 1.0, 100 watts, 13.8v, put the key down, the HI CUR
> warning appears most of the time (so I can't read voltage/amp on K3 meter).
> One time it didn't show, and current was still 23-ish amps, and voltage
> 12.6; at which point I realized the rig had automatically reduced power
> from 100 to 88 watts. The ammeter on the Power supply reads about 17 amps
> at both freqs, with and without HI CUR warning. The power supply voltage
> meter does not show the deflection below 13v, stays rock steady. That seems
> to say the voltage drop under load is happening at the terminals or power
> cord
>
> Per your suggestion I checked the lugs on the back of the power supply -
> very firm, but I guess I'll disconnect the leads and clean them and repeat
> the test.
> I guess my question to the experts in the group: does a 1.2 volt drop at
> the rig sound normal at 100w? I am using the power lead that came with the
> K3 kit; it looks healthy, hasn't been out of the shack on any field day ops
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Bruce,
>>
>> I would expect a Hi REFL message rather than Hi Cur if SWR was the problem.
>> Check your power supply connections. If you have bolts and nuts on the
>> power supply output terminals, if the bolts turn (even slightly) when you
>> tighten the nuts, you will have to dig inside the power supply to fully
>> tighten the bolts to the lugs on the inside.
>>
>> With Elecraft gear, a low power supply voltage will result in a higher
>> current draw from the power supply. Elecraft gear seeks to maintain the
>> requested power output, and a low supply voltage means that the current
>> must increase to maintain the power level.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/2014 4:18 PM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:
>>
>>> To the list:
>>>
>>> I occasionally get the Hi Current warning on my K3. I notice it cuts my
>>> power back about 10% from 100w. My initial assumption is that my SWR is
>>> too high - but the SWR meter is easily less than 2.0 I run the ATU which
>>> confirms SWR about 1.2 or so.
>>> So what am I missing - something bad in my transmission line?
>>>
>>>

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: HI Current

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Bruce Chadbourne <
[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Somebody else mentioned the Anderson pole connector - I've been in good
> shape for several years so I expect it had been assembled correctly; but
> I'm wondering if the connector surfaces are known for oxidizing?
> Bruce / KE1CY
>

ALL connector surfaces except silver and gold (and under some conditions
even silver) are candidates for oxidizing. A high current episode is a good
time to go over all the contacts. That's not only to find the problem, but
especially and primarily, to perform maintenance to prevent the usual
deterioration of contacts over time before it shows up ugly in a contest or
when you're after that rare DX you've been chasing for ten years.

I vote with Don on the 20m LP filter. Do contact K3 support.

73, Guy
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