Lew and Bill,
You are both lucky if you can wear headphones without using your hearing aids to copy signals well. I am nearly deaf without mine. Increasing volume does not add comprehension. My hearing is <35 dB in both ears with roll off to nothing above 800-Hz. But I use a pair of Sony stereo headphones MDR-V600 that have a soft cuff the covers the ears completely. My hearing aids are Phonic Silvia over-the-ear models with two mics for noise cancelling (spendy - cost $2600/ea.). But they do not feedback when I wear headphones. When I fly I wear a pair of Bose nose-cancelling headphones. They do have a T-coil mode for use with telephones but I find that it does not work well. At home we have Panasonic 5-GHz cordless phones with speakerphone. That works very nice. Fortunately, I do not work the 5760 MHz ham band. My problem is if I wear the headphones for hours there is some physical discomfort from the headphones pressing my ear and hearing aid, so I often remove the hearing aids when flying. Of course then my hearing is about -60dB and I hear nothing. I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics but have not bought any. Mostly the reports are on audio performance and not comfort. 73, Ed - KL7uW ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 23:12:35 -0700 From: Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I recently began wearing hearing aids myself, so I know what you're going through. You have to remove hearing aids to use conventional headphones, or else you get audio feedback screeching. When you remove hearing aids, if you're like most people, you lose ability to hear higher frequencies, which is the range in which consonants reside, and from which we discern the meaning of speech. (vowels are about 300-600 Hz, but we don't extract much meaning from vowel sounds.) As a first step, adjust the audio receive profile to give a some boost to frequencies up to 1kHz and a lot of boost to higher frequencies.. This will offset the increased hearing loss at higher frequencies that most people with hearing loss experience, and restore ability to discern consonants. Unfortunately, this also can increase background noise levels. IF that doesn't do the job, other possible solutions include: 1. Hearing aid compatible headphones such as the Geemarc CLA3 Hearing Aid Compatible Headset (haven't tried) 2. Bluetooth adapter. Many modern hearing aids have Bluetooth connectivity, so you can use them as headphones with a Bluetooth headset dongle. Google on "bluetooth audio dongle 3.5" and you'll come up with quite a few, ranging in price from about #$20 to $40, that will plug into the headset jack and convert the audio output to a Bluetooth signal, which you can hear directly through any Bluetooth enabled hearing aid. I haven't tried this, but I plan to do obtain one very soon. 3. Have you tried speakers and hearing aids combined? If that doesn't work, your hearing aids probably need adjustment or replacement. 4. If you want to use conventional headphones without your hearing aids, put a small stereo amplifier inline between line out output of your rig and your headphones. Preferably, use an amp with equalizer controls, and boost the higher frequencies commensurate with your hearing loss profile. Hope this helps. Lew K6LMP 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] ====================================== ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Although I don't have hearing issues serious enough to warrant hearing aids, I do like wearing headphones and spent quite a while finding any that were as comfortable as the multi-hundred dollar ones we used to use in the military years ago. I settled on a Yamaha CM-500 headset as I do a fair amount of phone and CW. I used them on Field Day this year - the first time I had used them for more than a short period since I purchased them. I have to say that the audio was wonderful and they were very comfortable. The CM-500 microphone works very well. I use the same TX equalizer settings I use for the Elecraft hand mic and have received several unsolicited reports of very good audio which is even more satisfying since much of my work is, by choice, QRP or at least power levels below 25W.
For about $50, the Yamaha headset is certainly worth a look. 73, Chuck - AA3CS On 10 Jul 2011, at 13:46, Edward R. Cole wrote: > Lew and Bill, > > You are both lucky if you can wear headphones without using your > hearing aids to copy signals well. I am nearly deaf without > mine. Increasing volume does not add comprehension. My hearing is > <35 dB in both ears with roll off to nothing above 800-Hz. > > But I use a pair of Sony stereo headphones MDR-V600 that have a soft > cuff the covers the ears completely. My hearing aids are Phonic > Silvia over-the-ear models with two mics for noise cancelling (spendy > - cost $2600/ea.). But they do not feedback when I wear > headphones. When I fly I wear a pair of Bose nose-cancelling > headphones. They do have a T-coil mode for use with telephones but I > find that it does not work well. At home we have Panasonic 5-GHz > cordless phones with speakerphone. That works very > nice. Fortunately, I do not work the 5760 MHz ham band. > > My problem is if I wear the headphones for hours there is some > physical discomfort from the headphones pressing my ear and hearing > aid, so I often remove the hearing aids when flying. Of course then > my hearing is about -60dB and I hear nothing. > > I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics > but have not bought any. Mostly the reports are on audio performance > and not comfort. > > 73, Ed - KL7uW > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2011 23:12:35 -0700 > From: Lew Phelps K6LMP <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones > To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I recently began wearing hearing aids myself, so I know what you're > going through. You have to remove hearing aids to use conventional > headphones, or else you get audio feedback screeching. When you > remove hearing aids, if you're like most people, you lose ability to > hear higher frequencies, which is the range in which consonants > reside, and from which we discern the meaning of speech. (vowels are > about 300-600 Hz, but we don't extract much meaning from vowel sounds.) > > As a first step, adjust the audio receive profile to give a some > boost to frequencies up to 1kHz and a lot of boost to higher > frequencies.. This will offset the increased hearing loss at higher > frequencies that most people with hearing loss experience, and > restore ability to discern consonants. Unfortunately, this also can > increase background noise levels. > > IF that doesn't do the job, other possible solutions include: > > 1. Hearing aid compatible headphones such as the Geemarc CLA3 Hearing > Aid Compatible Headset (haven't tried) > 2. Bluetooth adapter. Many modern hearing aids have Bluetooth > connectivity, so you can use them as headphones with a Bluetooth > headset dongle. Google on "bluetooth audio dongle 3.5" and you'll > come up with quite a few, ranging in price from about #$20 to $40, > that will plug into the headset jack and convert the audio output to > a Bluetooth signal, which you can hear directly through any Bluetooth > enabled hearing aid. I haven't tried this, but I plan to do obtain > one very soon. > 3. Have you tried speakers and hearing aids combined? If that doesn't > work, your hearing aids probably need adjustment or replacement. > 4. If you want to use conventional headphones without your hearing > aids, put a small stereo amplifier inline between line out output of > your rig and your headphones. Preferably, use an amp with equalizer > controls, and boost the higher frequencies commensurate with your > hearing loss profile. > > Hope this helps. > > Lew K6LMP > > > > > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 > ====================================== > BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com > EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? > DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] > ====================================== > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
73 - Chuck, AA3CS
|
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
On 7/10/2011 10:46 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
> I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics > but have not bought any. Mostly the reports are on audio performance > and not comfort. Hi Ed, The Yamaha CM500 is quite comfortable. In the 18 months so that I've owned mine, it's become my only radio headset, and I often do weekend contests that keep me in the chair for 15-20 hours (and sometimes as long as 30 hours) in a weekend. The large Sony phones (MDR7506 and the consumer MDR equivalent) are also quite comfortable. Some thoughts about using headphones WITHIOUT your hearing aids in place. The condition you've described of very strong loss of hearing above 500-1,000 Hz is characteristic of the vast majority of people with enough hearing loss to use (or need) a hearing aid, but the details of the response shape varies greatly depending on many factors, including the noise to which the victim has been exposed over the years, and various medical/physical factors. A good hearing aid will include equalization customized to the hearing loss of each ear to try to restore something approaching "normal hearing." The RXEQ section of the K3's signal processing can take a major step in this direction. A hearing impaired user should set the lower four frequency bands to their lowest settings and boost the top two bands. Since ham communications, by their nature, have limited audio bandwidth, there's no benefit from boosting frequencies higher than 4kHz. One thing I WOULD strongly suggest, if it's practical, is for Elecraft to add an optional DSP setting for hearing impaired individuals that would do some simple but strong low-cut and some general contouring of the spectrum above 500 Hz. In general, the biggest single thing we can do to improve speech intelligibility is to minimize the bass content (below about 350-400 Hz) so that these sounds, which do NOT contribute to speech intelligibility, don't waste audio power that can be used for the higher frequency sounds that DO carry intelligibility. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
My favorite headphones are Sony MDR-W08. They were $9.99 at Wal-mart. They go in the ear and are comfortable even for (almost) full-time use in a 48h contest.
|
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
Jim and others:
I appreciate your suggestions and observations...but my hearing loss is not just one of intensity and frequency. As typical of many with hearing loss, I have loss many of the inner ear structure that reproduce sound. So the sound can be loud enough over wide enough spectrum and still be unrecognisable. The way I like to illustrate this is to say you take a knife to your favorite high fidelity speaker and shred the hell out of it. No amount of volume increase and egualization will restore good sound out that speaker. It probably will sputter and buzz and thump and give the awfullest crappy sound. My hearing aids are computer programmed by my audiologist with each ear taylored for its needs. It is a 22-channel DSP system with two mics in each hearing aid so noise-cancelling and anti-echo programs run. It has a two-stage AGC system with different response times in programs. I have four separate software programs to chose for different hearing situations. For TV and Ham radio I chose the flat wide-spectrum "music" mode as if gives the crispest sound. There is significant differences for each ear, so using one equalization profile will not work as well. So the best solution for me is using headphones with my hearing aids when signals are weak or QRM is high. Any good fidelity stereo headset that is physically comfortable works. Many headsets press on the ears and do not fit around the ear. The physical pressure on the ear with the hearing aid between it and the head causes that to hurt after awhile. If the hearing aid cuff were to press directly on the head and not touch the ear it would be much more comfortable. But most are not designed for hearing aid wearer, just like not all TV or movies are captioned. I do not watch uncaptioned TV/movies. Those with handicaps learn to adapt as people around them are not able to understand the problem. But if you lost a arm or leg or are blind there are visual clues for others to recognize. There is nothing to indicate a person is hard of hearing. Interestingly, most people miss the fact that I am wearing hearing aids, or if the did they assume it "cures" my hearing problems. there is no cure for hearing loss. I still cannot understand a person who is not facing me or is in another room. If it is a crowded room I hear everything and nothing (ultimate QRM). In a noisy location is near impossible. If I am watching TV and my wife says something I usually have ask her to repeat it as I was concentrating on what was on TV. Thanks Ed - KL7UW ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:01:54 -0700 From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones To: [hidden email] Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 7/10/2011 10:46 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote: > I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics > but have not bought any. Mostly the reports are on audio performance > and not comfort. Hi Ed, The Yamaha CM500 is quite comfortable. In the 18 months so that I've owned mine, it's become my only radio headset, and I often do weekend contests that keep me in the chair for 15-20 hours (and sometimes as long as 30 hours) in a weekend. The large Sony phones (MDR7506 and the consumer MDR equivalent) are also quite comfortable. Some thoughts about using headphones WITHIOUT your hearing aids in place. The condition you've described of very strong loss of hearing above 500-1,000 Hz is characteristic of the vast majority of people with enough hearing loss to use (or need) a hearing aid, but the details of the response shape varies greatly depending on many factors, including the noise to which the victim has been exposed over the years, and various medical/physical factors. A good hearing aid will include equalization customized to the hearing loss of each ear to try to restore something approaching "normal hearing." The RXEQ section of the K3's signal processing can take a major step in this direction. A hearing impaired user should set the lower four frequency bands to their lowest settings and boost the top two bands. Since ham communications, by their nature, have limited audio bandwidth, there's no benefit from boosting frequencies higher than 4kHz. ======snipped 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] ====================================== ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Dear All,
For your information The Danish company Phonak are selling a device under the name of TVLink which plugs into the line out, Scart, headphone or external speaker connector and from it's console sends in stereo to your hearing aids. I have not tried it yet - so I cannot say anything about how it performs. The price is 3000 DKK around 450 EUR. Vy de OZ1CCM, Kjeld -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: 10. juli 2011 22:02 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones On 7/10/2011 10:46 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote: > I have followed the critiques on the reflector for headset-boom mics > but have not bought any. Mostly the reports are on audio performance > and not comfort. Hi Ed, The Yamaha CM500 is quite comfortable. In the 18 months so that I've owned mine, it's become my only radio headset, and I often do weekend contests that keep me in the chair for 15-20 hours (and sometimes as long as 30 hours) in a weekend. The large Sony phones (MDR7506 and the consumer MDR equivalent) are also quite comfortable. Some thoughts about using headphones WITHIOUT your hearing aids in place. The condition you've described of very strong loss of hearing above 500-1,000 Hz is characteristic of the vast majority of people with enough hearing loss to use (or need) a hearing aid, but the details of the response shape varies greatly depending on many factors, including the noise to which the victim has been exposed over the years, and various medical/physical factors. A good hearing aid will include equalization customized to the hearing loss of each ear to try to restore something approaching "normal hearing." The RXEQ section of the K3's signal processing can take a major step in this direction. A hearing impaired user should set the lower four frequency bands to their lowest settings and boost the top two bands. Since ham communications, by their nature, have limited audio bandwidth, there's no benefit from boosting frequencies higher than 4kHz. One thing I WOULD strongly suggest, if it's practical, is for Elecraft to add an optional DSP setting for hearing impaired individuals that would do some simple but strong low-cut and some general contouring of the spectrum above 500 Hz. In general, the biggest single thing we can do to improve speech intelligibility is to minimize the bass content (below about 350-400 Hz) so that these sounds, which do NOT contribute to speech intelligibility, don't waste audio power that can be used for the higher frequency sounds that DO carry intelligibility. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: <mailto:[hidden email]> mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: <http://www.qsl.net> http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
On 7/11/2011 7:25 AM, Kjeld Holm wrote:
> The Danish company Phonak are selling a device under the name of > TVLink which plugs into the line out, Scart, headphone or > external speaker connector and from it's console sends in stereo > to your hearing aids. I have not tried it yet - so I cannot say > anything about how it performs. The price is 3000 DKK around 450 > EUR. Thank you very much for this information. I am looking for something like that for use with my scanner when I am travelling. The "dongles" that I have seen on line only seem to have a 2 hour battery life at the most. I will be receiving my Phonak hearing-aids later this month and after I get used to them I will look into whether the TVLink will suit my needs. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
On 7/10/2011 11:54 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
> I appreciate your suggestions and observations...but my hearing loss > is not just one of intensity and frequency. Ed, I understand your more severe hearing loss, but I was responding IN PART to many others on the list with much less several loss than you, and can use RXEQ to solve their own problems, at least until their hearing loss progresses. As a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society, I also understand the issues with headphones fitting hearing aids, just as I also understand the DIFFERENCES between hearing loss and hearing aids. Etymotic Research, one of the major mfrs of signal processing for hearing aids of the type you wear, has long been a supporter of the Chicago Section of the AES, and their engineers are active in that section and made excellent technical presentations to the section. Until I moved to CA in 2006, I was an active member of that Section. Nearly 10 years ago, my colleague Bob Schulein (who was the designer of the Shure SM57 and SM58 and by then joined Etymotic) presented his work on the development of directional mics for hearing aids. It's really good that you have raised these issues in detail, because the physical design of a hearing aid has major impact on whether it CAN work with headphones -- that is, where are the sensors, and are there headphones that can comfortably be worn with them in place. This is an important question that any of us must resolve when BUYING a hearing aid. I suspect that any good headphones that WILL fit will work reasonably well if they are also sufficiently comfortable. That was the reason for my comments responding to a question (don't remember if it was yours) about comfort and the CM500s. These ARE circumaural phones, so they might fit you. Ditto for the Sony 7506. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
On 7/11/2011 9:15 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> Ed, > > I understand your more severe hearing loss, but I was responding IN PART > to many others on the list with much less several loss than you, and can > use RXEQ to solve their own problems, at least until their hearing loss > progresses. I appreciate this thread. I too am both nearly deaf, and even with level and frequency correction, I can't understand someone speaking behind me. My loss occurred all at once from an RPG explosion one night, and I've been told "the rocks on your hair cells are gone" so it affects my sense of balance as well. The latest hearing aids the VA gave me are Phonak multi-program DSP gizmos, and are many light years ahead of anything else I've had. They run at "afterburner roar" and do not work under the Heil Proset I got from Elecraft. However I do get to walk around with $6K of fairly effective micro-electronics stuffed into my ears thanks to very generous American taxpayers. Thank you all, I hope I deserve it. SSB has been pretty much a non-starter since my hearing disappeared, and I stick to CW most of the time. On Jim's patient advice [we know each other], I have been able to tailor the K3 Rx EQ to get an overall range of about 30 dB differential correction, and SSB on a quiet band, without QRM and accents, has become semi-usable for me -- first time in 40 years. 75 or 80 dB of correction would be better, but the 30 or so does really help. It took some time to work it out, and the final settings, while "similar" to the programs for my aids, are a little non-intuitive. One of Jim's suggestions was to go slow. Make a change, and then evaluate it over several days or a week under various band conditions. I, of course, expected to sit down and get this done in 10 mins :-) So, if you are hearing-impaired with a K3, I would urge you to spend some time with the Rx equalizer. You *can* make a difference with it. My hearing aids have a teeny little multi-wire connector inside the battery compartment they use to program them. I've wondered if there was a way to use that to feed flat audio from the radio into them for correction, but so far, no progress on that front. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Fred Jensen wrote:
>I appreciate this thread. I too am both nearly deaf, and even with >level and frequency correction, I can't understand someone speaking >behind me. My loss occurred all at once from an RPG explosion one >night, and I've been told "the rocks on your hair cells are gone" so it >affects my sense of balance as well. > >The latest hearing aids the VA gave me are Phonak multi-program DSP >gizmos, and are many light years ahead of anything else I've had. They >run at "afterburner roar" and do not work under the Heil Proset I got >from Elecraft. However I do get to walk around with $6K of fairly >effective micro-electronics stuffed into my ears thanks to very >generous American taxpayers. Thank you all, I hope I deserve it. Chalk up another Phonak user here, again a behind-the-ear design with a remarkable adaptive DSP and user-selectable programs for special functions. My natural hearing is almost exactly 'SSB quality', good up to about 2.5kHz but then rolling off rapidly, so the hearing aids are programmed to restore the higher frequencies that I haven't been hearing lately. Unlike the usual solid ear mold, mine have open earpieces within the ear canal which allow the lower frequencies to enter and be heard naturally. The hearing aids are only adding (or emphasizing) what's missing. The one application where I don't need the hearing aids at present is when listening to SSB or CW... but that may change as my frequency rolloff is likely to continue its downward march, so this whole discussion remains very relevant to me. The problem with using on-the-ear headphones (such as computer headsets) is that behind-the-ear hearing aids cannot pick up the full headphone sound that they need to process. But over-the ear headphones that completely enclose the hearing aids are not workable either, because the headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible. The only solution then is to operate without the hearing aids, and rely on either the radio or some external EQ to apply the necessary corrections. The K3's receive EQ can do this for us, but some users will find it essential to have independently adjustable EQ for each ear. A preset L-R balance would also be useful, so that the concentric AF gain controls can be reserved for their normal use. We're all getting older, but most of us are intending to keep our K3s for a long, long time, so the numbers of people who could benefit seem likely to increase. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Ian,
I use the same type hearing aids. Talk with your audiologist. My audiologist set a "Music" program for me, which does not have the echo cancellation. I can even listen to an organ with that setting. I do get feedback with some headphones, but I have success using the Sony MDR series (consumer grade, not the pro version of similar 'phones. I just ordered a Yamaha CM500 which has gotten rave reviews on this reflector, and I am hopeful that they also will allow me to wear my over-the-ear aids with them. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/11/2011 4:31 PM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote: > > because the > headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which > can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible. > > The only solution then is to operate without the hearing aids, and rely > on either the radio or some external EQ to apply the necessary > corrections. > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >I use the same type hearing aids. Probably not exactly the same, because Phonak is a brand name (Swiss) offering several different models, each available with a number of different earpieces, and then of course a vast range of programming options. >Talk with your audiologist. >My audiologist set a "Music" program for me, which does not have the >echo cancellation. I can even listen to an organ with that setting. The default music program on mine does have some echo cancellation (though not as aggressive as the speech program) and I was rather disappointed with its limited dynamic range before DSP artefacts appear, and they have to be switched off when *playing* a musical instrument quite close to the ear. I'd love to borrow the audiologist's programming interface for a few weeks! >I do get feedback with some headphones, but I have success using the >Sony MDR series (consumer grade, not the pro version of similar 'phones. > That's interesting; I'd have assumed that all fully-enclosing headphones would have been very similar in respect of feedback to a hearing aid inside the earmuffs. Maybe some of them sit more closely over the microphones... but in that case, you'd also be getting less correction from the hearing aids. >I just ordered a Yamaha CM500 which has gotten rave reviews on this >reflector, and I am hopeful that they also will allow me to wear my >over-the-ear aids with them. > Good luck with them, Don, and we'll look forward to your report. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
Ian,
My Phonak hearing aids use the molded earpiece so that may make the difference when wearing headphones. I have a program for listening to music/TV which is flat-freq response and has no anti-echo/noise-cancellation routines running. Works quite well with my Sony stereo headphones. The molded earpiece offer better isolation from feedback. Sounds to me that Fred is using the same hearing aid as me. My hearing loss is not as bad as Fred but worse than Ian, so SSB is a challenge but not impossible. The programing interface inside the battery compartment is probably only a serial digital interface and may not allow audio in/out. Contacting Phonak's service dept. might tell you more. I cannot use any device that is in-the-ear since I cannot then wear the hearing aid. My prior hearing aids were in-ear inserts but did not have the noise-cancelling features since only one mic can be used. This argument was what swayed me to over the ear. I will probably try the CM500 from the positive experience by others and low price. If they do not work for me there seems to be a market for them so I would not lose much in trade. I understand your recommendations, Jim. If my hearing were better that probably would work for me. So far, I have only shifted the Tx equalization on my K3, leaving Rx audio shaping to be done by my hearing aids. But I can certainly try some modifications to see if it helps. Measuring hearing is difficult for the professionals so the point of giving some time with settings makes sense. Hearing is partly acoustical and partly mental; not that different from analog and digital processing in electronics. Only that programming one's self is a iterative process and heuristic. Takes an adjustment period. Hope my comments were not too OT and were helpful for the hearing impaired as well as the rest of you. Too often hearing impaired folks are seen as "not paying attention" or "Lazy listeners", when, in fact, they are concentrating very hard to understand. Here's an exercise for those with good hearing: Try placing foam inserts in your ears, add a pair shooters hearing muffs and try hearing someone whisper while the lawn mower is running. This is how it is "everyday" for us with hearing problems. Or turn down the K3 volume to one notch above minimum during a contest with PRE off and ATT on. Put a pillow over your ears and then use headphones...getting it? 73, Ed ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:31:06 +0100 From: Ian White GM3SEK <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones To: [hidden email] ===snipped=== But over-the ear headphones that completely enclose the hearing aids are not workable either, because the headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] ====================================== ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Ed,
I liked my Oticon aids so well that I talked my 87 year old mother into getting some (she said she could hear quite well, thank you) ;o) Mine are very much like yours in appearance and features. The aids she got were the newest since I got mine and they are smaller and thinner than an almond, going behind the ear, but they have the speaker on a wire that goes into the inner ear, and they actually have xcvrs in them so they can communicate with each other saying things like that sound was from my side so you don't need to increase it as much as I do. The audiologist says that with these aids she can distinguish the direction of sounds very well. I hope to get a pair one of these days but as you know, they are very expensive. More than 2 KPA500s ;o) 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:18:14 -0800, "Edward R. Cole" <[hidden email]> wrote: >Ian, > >My Phonak hearing aids use the molded earpiece so that may make the >difference when wearing headphones. I have a program for listening >to music/TV which is flat-freq response and has no >anti-echo/noise-cancellation routines running. Works quite well with >my Sony stereo headphones. The molded earpiece offer better >isolation from feedback. > >Sounds to me that Fred is using the same hearing aid as me. My >hearing loss is not as bad as Fred but worse than Ian, so SSB is a >challenge but not impossible. The programing interface inside the >battery compartment is probably only a serial digital interface and >may not allow audio in/out. Contacting Phonak's service dept. might >tell you more. > >I cannot use any device that is in-the-ear since I cannot then wear >the hearing aid. My prior hearing aids were in-ear inserts but did >not have the noise-cancelling features since only one mic can be >used. This argument was what swayed me to over the ear. > >I will probably try the CM500 from the positive experience by others >and low price. If they do not work for me there seems to be a market >for them so I would not lose much in trade. > >I understand your recommendations, Jim. If my hearing were better >that probably would work for me. So far, I have only shifted the Tx >equalization on my K3, leaving Rx audio shaping to be done by my >hearing aids. But I can certainly try some modifications to see if >it helps. Measuring hearing is difficult for the professionals so >the point of giving some time with settings makes sense. Hearing is >partly acoustical and partly mental; not that different from analog >and digital processing in electronics. Only that programming one's >self is a iterative process and heuristic. Takes an adjustment period. > >Hope my comments were not too OT and were helpful for the hearing >impaired as well as the rest of you. Too often hearing impaired >folks are seen as "not paying attention" or "Lazy listeners", when, >in fact, they are concentrating very hard to understand. > >Here's an exercise for those with good hearing: Try placing foam >inserts in your ears, add a pair shooters hearing muffs and try >hearing someone whisper while the lawn mower is running. This is how >it is "everyday" for us with hearing problems. Or turn down the K3 >volume to one notch above minimum during a contest with PRE off and >ATT on. Put a pillow over your ears and then use headphones...getting it? > >73, Ed > >------------------------------ > >Message: 24 >Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:31:06 +0100 >From: Ian White GM3SEK <[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Headphones >To: [hidden email] >===snipped=== >But over-the ear headphones that >completely enclose the hearing aids are not workable either, because the >headphone sound creates a constantly changing feedback environment which >can upset the DSP echo cancellation and sounds terrible. > > > > >73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 >====================================== >BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com >EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? >DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] >====================================== > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
|
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
On 7/12/2011 1:18 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
> I understand your recommendations, Jim. If my hearing were better > that probably would work for me. So far, I have only shifted the Tx > equalization on my K3, leaving Rx audio shaping to be done by my > hearing aids. But I can certainly try some modifications to see if > it helps. Elecraft has given those of us with impaired hearing a whole new thing to help. I really urge anyone with hearing impairment and a K3 to spend some time with the RX EQ. Honestly, you probably can't make it perfect, although I long ago forgot what perfect was, but you *can* make it better! I know they tell us it's a +/- 16dB range, but that's 32 dB top to bottom, folks! Just turn the AF Gain up as you figure out your settings. And, do it slowly, half of hearing is in the brain, not the ears. Thanks Elecraft, SSB is a doable thing for me with the RX EQ. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
In reply to this post by Edward R Cole
I think Shure SE310's and Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro's both are excellent earphones for the money. The bass response is a little better on the SE310's, but the UE's have a better overall sound in my personal opinion.
http://www.sencart.com/Supply-earphones-headphones_c27
|
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Barry
Thanks for sharing it.......mp3 headphone
http://www.sencart.com/Supply-earphones-headphones_c27
|
Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |