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High vertical

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Vic Rosenthal

High vertical

I have an apartment on the top floor of a 10-story building with a small
roof area accessible and restrictions on antenna size. I asked for
advice here about antennas, and got a lot of suggestions and help, so I
thought I would post my results.

I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack) that
sits on the roof. The base of the antenna is about 35m above the ground.
It sits on a 1m tall mast which is connected to the roof with a
hinge-type mount and is guyed at two levels with 4 PES marine ropes at
each level.

The feedline is about 10m of RG/213. I used two homemade ferrite chokes,
one near the antenna and one at the entrance to the shack, because I was
concerned about RFI and receive noise.

Results so far have been, in a word, great! I seem to be able to work
anything I can hear, mostly with my barefoot K3. I have only used my amp
a few times. I am getting good reports and breaking pileups right and
left (all this on CW, of course).

The antenna is not as bad as I thought it would be for receive noise,
but it is not as clean as my Pixel Loop, which is exceptionally quiet.

My experience with similar antennas at lower heights was not as good
(yes, my call makes me DX for some, but not for the DXpeditions whose
pileups I get through on the first or second call). All in all, life
without a beam can be very enjoyable if you can put a vertical up high
enough.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO/4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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RobertG

Re: High vertical

Vic...
Any thoughts on choosing the Cushcraft over the Hy-Gain for a vertical?
...robert

On 10/18/2014 14:55, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:
>
> I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack) that
> sits on the roof.

--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
[hidden email]
Syracuse, New York, USA
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tomb18

Re: High vertical

Hi Robert,I can't seem to find any other messages in the reflector about this topic. But in any case I have owned both a Cushcraft R6000, and a HyGain AV620.I used both for at least 6 months before moving to a cushcraft ma5b mini beam.
Both antennas seemed to offer similar performance. In this regard, I would give the edge to the hy-gain. Both were excellent for dx, I made many qrp qso's from Montreal to australia.
The cushcraft had one annoying feature: The minute it rained or snowed, the resonance went far off where it was when dry. 200khz on 20m for example. The elecraft tuner took care of it but it was annoying.
The hygain has a lot of threaded rods which need to be adjust to reach resonance. These rods are prone to seizing the nuts on them. But once they re set the antenna never shifted in resonance.
The hygain brought me up to 200+ DXCC's. But I can tell you this: Both are no substitute for the MA5B.
Both are extremely noisy. The MA5B gives two 2 S unit improvement as a minimum in almost all cases, but the noise floor dropped 15dB.
Anyways, they both are good antennas, but I would suppliment them with an active antenna and a noise phaser to null out the noise sources, which improves them considerably.
Hope this helps.
Tom
va2fsq.com

On 10/19/14, Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Vic...
> Any thoughts on choosing the Cushcraft over the Hy-Gain for a vertical?
> ...robert
>
> On 10/18/2014 14:55, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:
> >
> >I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack) that
> >sits on the roof.
>
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> [hidden email]
> Syracuse, New York, USA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: High vertical

In reply to this post by RobertG

The main reason is that the Cushcraft R8 was one of the antennas in the
comparison report on verticals by N0AX and K7LXC (cost $20 but worth it)
here:

<http://www.championradio.com/HF-VERTICAL-PERFORMANCE-TEST-METHODS-RESULTS.3>

The Hy-Gain AV-640 is very similar, but appears to have a little more
top loading and is a bit shorter. It is also less expensive.

Incidentally, yesterday afternoon we had a storm with remarkably high
winds. I went up to look at the antenna and had to take care not to be
blown down. I was /very/ glad I had guyed it at two locations. I may
even add a third set of guys.

On 20 Oct 2014 05:28, Robert G Strickland wrote:
> Vic...
> Any thoughts on choosing the Cushcraft over the Hy-Gain for a vertical?
> ...robert
>
> On 10/18/2014 14:55, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:
>>
>> I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack) that
>> sits on the roof.
>

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO/4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: High vertical

In reply to this post by tomb18

For what it's worth, the R6000 is very different from the R8.

On 20 Oct 2014 05:48, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Robert,I can't seem to find any other messages in the reflector
> about this topic. But in any case I have owned both a Cushcraft
> R6000, and a HyGain AV620.I used both for at least 6 months before
> moving to a cushcraft ma5b mini beam. Both antennas seemed to offer
> similar performance. In this regard, I would give the edge to the
> hy-gain. Both were excellent for dx, I made many qrp qso's from
> Montreal to australia. The cushcraft had one annoying feature: The
> minute it rained or snowed, the resonance went far off where it was
> when dry. 200khz on 20m for example. The elecraft tuner took care of
> it but it was annoying. The hygain has a lot of threaded rods which
> need to be adjust to reach resonance. These rods are prone to seizing
> the nuts on them. But once they re set the antenna never shifted in
> resonance. The hygain brought me up to 200+ DXCC's. But I can tell
> you this: Both are no substitute for the MA5B. Both are extremely
> noisy. The MA5B gives two 2 S unit improvement as a minimum in almost
> all cases, but the noise floor dropped 15dB. Anyways, they both are
> good antennas, but I would suppliment them with an active antenna and
> a noise phaser to null out the noise sources, which improves them
> considerably. Hope this helps. Tom va2fsq.com
>
> On 10/19/14, Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Vic... Any thoughts on choosing the Cushcraft over the Hy-Gain for
>> a vertical? ...robert
>>
>> On 10/18/2014 14:55, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:
>>>
>>> I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack)
>>> that sits on the roof.
>>
>> -- Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email]
>> Syracuse, New York, USA

--
Vic

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO/4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: High vertical

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I'm assuming you DO know that MFJ now owns Cush-Craft as well as Hy-Gain.
Check the addresses in their ads.

Starkville Miss.

73, Charlie k3ICH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High vertical

> The main reason is that the Cushcraft R8 was one of the antennas in the
> comparison report on verticals by N0AX and K7LXC (cost $20 but worth it)
> here:
>
> <http://www.championradio.com/HF-VERTICAL-PERFORMANCE-TEST-METHODS-RESULTS.3>
>
> The Hy-Gain AV-640 is very similar, but appears to have a little more top
> loading and is a bit shorter. It is also less expensive.
>
> Incidentally, yesterday afternoon we had a storm with remarkably high
> winds. I went up to look at the antenna and had to take care not to be
> blown down. I was /very/ glad I had guyed it at two locations. I may even
> add a third set of guys.
>
> On 20 Oct 2014 05:28, Robert G Strickland wrote:
>> Vic...
>> Any thoughts on choosing the Cushcraft over the Hy-Gain for a vertical?
>> ...robert
>>
>> On 10/18/2014 14:55, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:
>>>
>>> I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack) that
>>> sits on the roof.
>>
>
> --
> 73,
> Vic, K2VCO/4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Vic Rosenthal

Re: High vertical

Of course. So what? They are different antennas.

On 20 Oct 2014 15:14, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

> I'm assuming you DO know that MFJ now owns Cush-Craft as well as
> Hy-Gain. Check the addresses in their ads.
>
> Starkville Miss.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP"
> <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 1:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High vertical
>
>
>> The main reason is that the Cushcraft R8 was one of the antennas in
>> the comparison report on verticals by N0AX and K7LXC (cost $20 but
>> worth it) here:
>>
>> <http://www.championradio.com/HF-VERTICAL-PERFORMANCE-TEST-METHODS-RESULTS.3>
>>
>>
>> The Hy-Gain AV-640 is very similar, but appears to have a little more
>> top loading and is a bit shorter. It is also less expensive.
>>
>> Incidentally, yesterday afternoon we had a storm with remarkably high
>> winds. I went up to look at the antenna and had to take care not to be
>> blown down. I was /very/ glad I had guyed it at two locations. I may
>> even add a third set of guys.
>>
>> On 20 Oct 2014 05:28, Robert G Strickland wrote:
>>> Vic...
>>> Any thoughts on choosing the Cushcraft over the Hy-Gain for a vertical?
>>> ...robert
>>>
>>> On 10/18/2014 14:55, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I put up an R8 vertical on a small building (containing my shack) that
>>>> sits on the roof.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> 73,
>> Vic, K2VCO/4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
Vic
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: High vertical

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

> The Hy-Gain AV-640 is very similar, but appears to have a little more
> top loading and is a bit shorter. It is also less expensive.

The Hy-Gain AV series verticals are electrically similar to the
Cushcraft equivalents. However, the Hy-Gain antennas seem to be less
mechanically "robust" and reports I've received from Hy-Gain owners
indicate the "finish" is less on the Hy-Gain than the Cushcraft (even
though both are MFJ companies).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-10-20 1:57 AM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO/4X6GP wrote:

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: High vertical

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

They will be as long as MFJ leaves them as separate operations and
builds the same antennas.

When they start reducing redundancy and merging the engineering groups,
they'll become more similar until the only difference is branding.

On 10/20/2014 6:35 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

> Of course. So what? They are different antennas.
>
> On 20 Oct 2014 15:14, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
>> I'm assuming you DO know that MFJ now owns Cush-Craft as well as
>> Hy-Gain. Check the addresses in their ads.
>>
>> Starkville Miss.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>

Doug Turnbull

Re: High vertical

Friends,
I am a MFJ fan but would not reckon HyGain or Cush-Craft employ
engineers these days. There has not been a new product from either of
these makes in many years. I am still glad though that the likes of my
first commercial antenna a 14 AVS now 14 AVQ is available. The Hy-Gain
mono-banders were not such bad antennas and at least one can still install
them. Yes, maybe quality has dropped but they would not be with us at all
but for MFJ.

73 Doug EI2CN

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lynn
W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Sent: 20 October 2014 18:36
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] High vertical

They will be as long as MFJ leaves them as separate operations and
builds the same antennas.

When they start reducing redundancy and merging the engineering groups,
they'll become more similar until the only difference is branding.

On 10/20/2014 6:35 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

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