IC-7300 video - things to come

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

In my mind, I have a totally different picture of this.

I don't see a panadaptor, or windows, or pop-ups.

I see a front panel that looks very much like a KX3 or a K3, with
buttons drawn on the touch screen.

I see some ability to "turn off" buttons that I would never use, and
make other buttons bigger.

Mostly, I see a way for Elecraft to add a button for some whiz-bang new
feature, instead of having to squeeze more functions in without being
able to add a button.

On 3/29/2016 1:13 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:
> In amateur radio, my opinion is mixed. I can see myself having fun with T-S
> on a panadaptor, but the smile kind of fades from my face when thinking
> about using the radio in general on a greasy thumprinted, fussy screen with
> windows popping up all over the place....

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[Terry Schieler-2]

Earl wrote:

"Try using a touchscreen in a light aircraft on a bumpy air day and you will learn to hate a touch screen."
Earl, K4KAY



........Or in a Jeep Grand Cherokee on a busy highway at rush hour.  I hate Chrysler's U-Connect screen.   I used to be able to count (think braille) the knobs in a row on the dashboard and actually end up on the one I wanted without taking my eyes off the road..  Not with touchscreen.

73,
Terry, W0FM


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[Elecraft mailing list]

Earl wrote:

"Try using a touchscreen in a light aircraft on a bumpy air day and you will learn to hate a touch screen."  Earl, K4KAY

Those of us who have aging, shaky hands don't even need the turbulence,  our own brains conspire to make touch screens difficult to operate.   The "soft buttons" like the P3 and PX3 have work great, though.  They allow the finger to touch the button without activating it so you can tell that you are pressing the right spot.

Because of my essential tremors,  I will not buy a touch screen radio.  Sorry, Icom!

Mark,
ars:  KE6BB 

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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

As a private pilot I fly with a Garmin GTN750 touch-screen GPS NAV/COM in a
Cessna 182. Its powerful and quite intuitive to use, even in turbulence. (They
included ridges along the four screen sides when needed to steady your hand.) It
actually reduces the amount pilot load and time spent looking inside the cockpit
when used properly - Though you can certainly abuse it dangerously if you treat
it like a video game and forget to look outside the cockpit..   I wouldn't go
any other way now.   (And I came from a full-on knobs based flight environment
prior to that.)

There are great touch-screen avionics implementations and horrible ones. The 750
is a good one and world's above many others.

I think for future ham radios and similar product designs, what will be
important is meshing the correct balance between traditional hard knobs and
buttons with unique touch-screen features (display and input). The overall goal
should be to balance the user interface between the touch-screen and
knobs/buttons for ease of use without unintended confusion while adding unique
touch-screen display and easy to use input features.

As a side note - I use the remotehams.com free remote software with the
K3/0-Mini and a laptop to remote my home K3S, KPA500 and Rotor. Interestingly,
the little h/p satellite 360 convertible laptop/tablet has a touch screen, which
I use for many functions like rotor control, amp control/status etc, but I like
it combined with the K3/0-Mini's knobs and display for regular intuitive use,
versus using it only for 100% computer based remote control.

73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 3/29/2016 1:13 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:
> For me, even if touch-screen UI's were written for old people like myself, hi
> hi, I still think its a technology in its infancy.
>

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

As far as I know, touch-screens cannot be easily be navigated by
unsighted operators.
How would touch-screens be implemented in keeping with Elecraft's
promise to allow handicapped operators full access to the operation of
the Elecraft line of products?

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/29/2016 8:50 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> As a private pilot I fly with a Garmin GTN750 touch-screen GPS NAV/COM
> in a Cessna 182. Its powerful and quite intuitive to use, even in
> turbulence. (They included ridges along the four screen sides when
> needed to steady your hand.) It actually reduces the amount pilot load
> and time spent looking inside the cockpit when used properly - Though
> you can certainly abuse it dangerously if you treat it like a video
> game and forget to look outside the cockpit..   I wouldn't go any
> other way now.   (And I came from a full-on knobs based flight
> environment prior to that.)
>

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[Elecraft mailing list]

Re:   "I may have missed something in this discussion but I question what is different from using a touch screen or the buttons on the radio as we have now?"

On screen buttons activate as soon as it is touched.  Hardware buttons allow the finger to touch the button and give the brain an instant to verify that you have indeed touched the button you intended to touch, after which you can apply the pressure to activate it.   The difference is huge when your hands shake, or g-forces are moving them around.  THAT in a nutshell, is the difference between a touch screen and hardware buttons.

Mark,
ars:  KE6BB 
Slowly writing this on my phone touch screen...not fun at all.
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[iw1ayd]

Hi all.
I have nothing against touch screen, out of the fact that sometimes is
... touchy.
The responsiveness of the virtual buttons should be much more the the
one of physical buttons or, too old to die, command lines. Touch
screen need to give you a faster and accurate response even if the
background HW/SW is not so responsive or ... touch, touch, touch again
and again. The smart phone teach. That is more massively in use than
other touch mechanism. However, this is only one line for the whole
book, that is not all written at today.

On the other side I would simply do not care about a touch screen if
there are enough CAT commands and there is plenty of user defined
macro button on any logger.
As an addicted to RTTY I see where the action is: the screen of a
computer or two, usually large screens, and my ears, when in needs
i.e. RIT, SO2R and other cases. The action is not on the radio until I
recognize something wrong on usual advice devices. Those need to be in
plain view almost every time.

Touch screens are, maybe, a good selling point for smallest radio. (A
smallest radio isn't also by default the one with the smallest
weight.) On the other hand, the touch screens  will be a good
engineering selling point when to cut down physical buttons/encoders
project expenses. I hope only that all the this engineering that will
change our habits will not change in any way what is inside a radio:
CAT vocabulary or on a wire commands, external commands abilities and
capabilities..
KIS is on another planet, maybe universe of a drill down sequentially
of 2 to 4 visual masks where to find what to touch that buried
function. Often physical controls offers ... control ... on a tip of a
finger: I do not have to look it all that, just go there, check, and
move onto with a second click and drive it where I need. I would not
like to play another windows game to do it as often as it goes.
I.E. the CLEAR RIT is better on a macro and on a single push button
than two screens away. There is, two screens away from the main, as a
toggle button ... but it is toggle of what "two screens away from the
normal screen view". Even when that needed function is reached and
used, what will happen on the next TX or after a so-called sub screen
timeout? The screen will fold back on the main screen or will stay
forever there? Until the PA instruments or lights would tell me a
deadly end for a not controlled Pout, SWR or another parameter ...
That is, summarizing, poor engineering practice and sometimes it is
not avoidable. Even on strict coupling of the same brand boxes.

I really do not know how is made the IC-7300 or how it perform. It
will be a pleasure to discover it all. However, I am not in a hurry,
nor expecting that much.

I am still saving to transform my two K3, pragmatically, on what will
be the most usable and feasible with the newest parts. This would be,
when it could be, more than any touch screen. For other
characteristics of other machines: I will be at the window.

Changes are often a need, even if not greatly requested, but not all
changes are improvements.
Often changes are made in steps, sometimes real advantages are
deployed in the last of those.

             73 de iw1ayd Salvo

>Message: 27
>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:50:37 -0700
>From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] IC-7300 video - things to come
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>As a private pilot I fly with a Garmin GTN750 touch-screen GPS NAV/COM in a
>Cessna 182. Its powerful and quite intuitive to use, even in turbulence. (They
>included ridges along the four screen sides when needed to steady your hand.) It
>actually reduces the amount pilot load and time spent looking inside the cockpit
>when used properly - Though you can certainly abuse it dangerously if you treat
>it like a video game and forget to look outside the cockpit..   I wouldn't go
>any other way now.   (And I came from a full-on knobs based flight environment
>prior to that.)
>
>There are great touch-screen avionics implementations and horrible ones. The 750
>is a good one and world's above many others.
>
>I think for future ham radios and similar product designs, what will be
>important is meshing the correct balance between traditional hard knobs and
>buttons with unique touch-screen features (display and input). The overall goal
>should be to balance the user interface between the touch-screen and
>knobs/buttons for ease of use without unintended confusion while adding unique
>touch-screen display and easy to use input features.
>
>As a side note - I use the remotehams.com free remote software with the
>K3/0-Mini and a laptop to remote my home K3S, KPA500 and Rotor. Interestingly,
>the little h/p satellite 360 convertible laptop/tablet has a touch screen, which
>I use for many functions like rotor control, amp control/status etc, but I like
>it combined with the K3/0-Mini's knobs and display for regular intuitive use,
>versus using it only for 100% computer based remote control.
>
>73,
>
>Eric
>/elecraft.com/
>
>On 3/29/2016 1:13 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:
>> For me, even if touch-screen UI's were written for old people like myself, hi
>> hi, I still think its a technology in its infancy.

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[Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2]

Wow, a touch screen. Wow? Come on, it's just an interface between man
and machine.

Just some ( and I mean /some/) thoughts:

A touch screen can be a cheap set of programmable buttons.
Could be nice for a user and maybe  a cost reduction for the
manufacturer. Nothing special and I'm not impressed at all. The
touchscreen has several drawbacks as have been already stated. To add
one: screen buttons can take up too much space on the screen if the
screen is not big enough. My screen must display useful information
(that is what screens are for), and must have a fair size.

A touch screen is nice if you want to manipulate things.
Manipulating things: zooming in and out, rotating, moving, etc. As long
as it is easier with than with a mouse, the touch screen is super.
(precise manipulation is easier with a mouse)

Ergonomically: high resolution (duh) and easy to access.
Screens in ham transceivers used to be vertical, like a computer screen,
also vertical. The 'classical' touch screens are more or less
horizontal, like tablets and smartphones. Some manufacturers have tried
to make hamradio equipment with touch screens that are somewhere in
between: IC-7100 panel, Acom-2000 panel, etc.
I think we have to learn from the windows-8 computers and ditto laptops
how we tend to do things. In which cases do we touch the screen?

High resolution info on a high resolution screen
A good resolution screen is as good as the resolution of the info.

73
Arie PA3A




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