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Icom 7300 is available

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Bill-3

Icom 7300 is available

Most of the dealers are showing the 7300 as either in stock or soon to
be in stock at $1499. Unique, in that it is a direct sampling receiver,
has a live scope, and depends upon a touch screen for control. Not
really my cuppa, but it will be interesting to watch this rig make its
debut.

Bill W2BLC K-Line
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Barry K3NDM

Re: Icom 7300 is available

Interesting. I wonder how it will compare to my KX3. The only direct
sampling complete rig that I was aware of was the Flex 6000 series. I
also wonder if it will be as flexible in operation as a KX3. Ah
technology, and so little time. ;-)

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Bill" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 3/1/2016 2:02:32 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Icom 7300 is available

>Most of the dealers are showing the 7300 as either in stock or soon to
>be in stock at $1499. Unique, in that it is a direct sampling
>receiver, has a live scope, and depends upon a touch screen for
>control. Not really my cuppa, but it will be interesting to watch this
>rig make its debut.
>
>Bill W2BLC K-Line
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wayne burdick

Re: Icom 7300 is available

Administrator

Hi Barry,

> Interesting. I wonder how it will compare to my KX3.
>
> The only direct sampling complete rig that I was aware of was the Flex 6000 series. I also wonder if it will be as flexible in operation as a KX3. Ah technology, and so little time. ;-)

Since the 7300 uses direct sampling, it will have the same blocking dynamic range (BDR) problem as other radios in this class, especially multi-signal situations such as contesting. I also doubt it will beat the KX3 in close-spaced dynamic range, unless they used a very exotic, very expensive A-to-D converter. (Note that the only way the Flex 6700 series can achieve good close-in dynamic range is by turning on the preamp. This overcomes the very poor preamp-off MDS, but at an even greater cost in BDR.)

Beyond that, the KX3:

- is about 1/5th the size
- is about 1/5th the weight
- consumes probably 1/10th as much RX-mode current
- has an internal battery
- has an attached keyer paddle
- has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC
- works with integrated peripherals (PX3 and KXPA100) that can be left at
your fixed station when traveling

So if you're operating portable, it's an apples/oranges comparison.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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wayne burdick

Re: Icom 7300 is available

Administrator

>
> Beyond that, the KX3:
>
> - has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC

Typo. I meant "without" a PC. (But it will also work with one :)

Wayne

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

YES! In addition to being a great mobile and fixed station rig, it's a
backpacker's dream! Last summer, I loaned my KX3/KXPA100 with a 20Ah
LiFePO4 battery to AF6RT and W6JTI, who dragged it up a 2 mile trail
with a 1,000 ft gain in elevation to light up a rare 6M grid. They were
also dragging an antenna, coax, a computer, water, and lunch. At the end
of the day, they still had power left in that battery.

73, Jim K9YC

On Tue,3/1/2016 12:08 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Beyond that, the KX3:
>
> - is about 1/5th the size
> - is about 1/5th the weight
> - consumes probably 1/10th as much RX-mode current
> - has an internal battery
> - has an attached keyer paddle
> - has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC
> - works with integrated peripherals (PX3 and KXPA100) that can be left at
> your fixed station when traveling
>
> So if you're operating portable, it's an apples/oranges comparison.

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Icom 7300 is available

If one is not a backpacker or wants 100W output - perhaps for mobile
work - the "traditional knob" interface, built in tuner, support for
the AH-3/AH-4 tuners at the antenna, 100W, etc. make the IC-7300 quite
interesting. IIRC, the 7300 will do PSK31/RTTY with an internal
decoder and attached keyboard. Icom's claimed RMDDR and phase noise
specifications will, if accurate, put the 7300 in the top echelon of
Sherwood's test results. The 7300 has what appears to be relatively
"tight" preselectors which should minimize the "composite signal level"
ADC overload (much more than the Flex-6300 with no preselectors) and
those with limited antennas (e.g. mobile, compromise wires, etc.) are
even less likely to see the strong signal composite overload than
someone with big antennas high in the air.

My disappointment is that after claiming the 7300 would be an "entry
level" rig, the price is well above that of Icom's other entry level
rigs (the IC-718 or IC-7100). At the announced price, the 7300 should
have included a RX ANT Out/RX ANT In "loop," support for a second
antenna, and a video output to feed a larger display.

At its size and power level the 7300 is not the "backpacker's special"
nor was it intended to be. To make that comparison is patently unfair.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 3/1/2016 3:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> YES! In addition to being a great mobile and fixed station rig, it's a
> backpacker's dream! Last summer, I loaned my KX3/KXPA100 with a 20Ah
> LiFePO4 battery to AF6RT and W6JTI, who dragged it up a 2 mile trail
> with a 1,000 ft gain in elevation to light up a rare 6M grid. They were
> also dragging an antenna, coax, a computer, water, and lunch. At the end
> of the day, they still had power left in that battery.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On Tue,3/1/2016 12:08 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Beyond that, the KX3:
>>
>> - is about 1/5th the size
>> - is about 1/5th the weight
>> - consumes probably 1/10th as much RX-mode current
>> - has an internal battery
>> - has an attached keyer paddle
>> - has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC
>> - works with integrated peripherals (PX3 and KXPA100) that can be
>> left at
>> your fixed station when traveling
>>
>> So if you're operating portable, it's an apples/oranges comparison.
>
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lstavenhagen

Re: Icom 7300 is available

I guess you get what you pay for. To my knowledge, only Elecraft is capable of producing receivers that top the charts over at Sherwood engineering but still cost only what their competitors' "entry level" rigs do.

I don't think the Icom leopard is necessarily going to change its spots with the 7300, it never has in the past. Either the price is going to be really high or the performance mediocre (or maybe both). I personally have always been dismayed at how poor Icom's RX's have been even at the higher price ranges; even my K2 runs circles around my 706MKIIG in terms of RX performance.

I think the highest bang/buck ratio is still held by Elecraft and I don't see that changing for quite a while...

73,
LS
W5QD

Jim Brown-10

Re: Icom 7300 is available

On Tue,3/1/2016 1:29 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:
> even my K2 runs circles around my 706MKIIG in terms of RX
> performance.

That's a very unfair comparison -- the 706, like the Yaesu FT100D,
FT847, and FT897, in all their incarnations combine a lousy receiver
with el cheapo noise generators that have no business being used on the
air.

73, Jim K9YC
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N1EU

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by Bill-3

My experience with direct sampling radios (ANAN-100D & Flex 6500 in the
shack alongside my K3s/P3) is that their front ends are plenty robust
enough for contesting and low band dx'ing. N5AC made some interesting
comments on the topic:
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/adc-overload-myths-debunked

73, Barry N1EU

Message: 23
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 12:08:00 -0800
From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
To: Barry LaZar <[hidden email]>
Cc: Bill <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom 7300 is available
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Since the 7300 uses direct sampling, it will have the same blocking dynamic
range (BDR) problem as other radios in this class, especially multi-signal
situations such as contesting. I also doubt it will beat the KX3 in
close-spaced dynamic range, unless they used a very exotic, very expensive
A-to-D converter. (Note that the only way the Flex 6700 series can achieve
good close-in dynamic range is by turning on the preamp. This overcomes the
very poor preamp-off MDS, but at an even greater cost in BDR.)
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Rick WA6NHC-2

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I submit that an 'entry level' rig is often a handed down or used rig.
The 7300 is an 'economy' model direct conversion (which is not
unattractive to some)... however...

The IC-7300 should have had VGA/HDMI output for a larger display option
(ideally a Bluetooth link to extend the entire touch screen and a few
knobs to an interactive tablet app, then store the rig elsewhere like
under the back seat, trunk etc.). When a rig has a video display (not
just LED readouts) it is simply ignorant to ignore video output as a
standard feature (or as an available option), even on an entry level
rig. Not everyone wants a tiny touch display that may quickly get
covered in finger goo (mobile/portable environment is not nearly as
clean as the average shack) and having a larger display makes it easier
to actually see the scope etc. in a more comfortable operating position,
no hunching down to see it on the table.

However, I will be watching it as a potential RV rig (where I don't
expect stellar performance); my other choices (in order) are a basic
K3/100 with tuner (less 'stuff' when compared to the home rig, secured
during travel), the KW TS-480HX (already have one in the truck) and the
KX3 with an amp and the '7300 (huge cost differences). Even the 7300
minimal scope is better than no P(X)3 so it's a matter of how much to
spend to make a basic RV station. All can be managed by an external
computer, mentioned only to dismiss it entirely in discussion. In the
RV world, size (storage space or station space) and weight (load limits,
fuel use) are HUGE factors. A case of oranges and grapefruit perhaps (a
potential lemon tossed in)?

Further, the KW line and Elecraft menu/command structure is so simple,
logical and similar, I don't have to 'switch gears' to use either; the
Icom, is um, different. Always has been, I've never 'liked' it, I just
learned to adapt when I used one (Field day typically).

Rick wa6nhc

On 3/1/2016 1:18 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> If one is not a backpacker or wants 100W output - perhaps for mobile
> work - the "traditional knob" interface, built in tuner, support for
> the AH-3/AH-4 tuners at the antenna, 100W, etc. make the IC-7300 quite
> interesting. IIRC, the 7300 will do PSK31/RTTY with an internal
> decoder and attached keyboard. Icom's claimed RMDDR and phase noise
> specifications will, if accurate, put the 7300 in the top echelon of
> Sherwood's test results. The 7300 has what appears to be relatively
> "tight" preselectors which should minimize the "composite signal level"
> ADC overload (much more than the Flex-6300 with no preselectors) and
> those with limited antennas (e.g. mobile, compromise wires, etc.) are
> even less likely to see the strong signal composite overload than
> someone with big antennas high in the air.
>
> My disappointment is that after claiming the 7300 would be an "entry
> level" rig, the price is well above that of Icom's other entry level
> rigs (the IC-718 or IC-7100). At the announced price, the 7300 should
> have included a RX ANT Out/RX ANT In "loop," support for a second
> antenna, and a video output to feed a larger display.
>
> At its size and power level the 7300 is not the "backpacker's special"
> nor was it intended to be. To make that comparison is patently unfair.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 3/1/2016 3:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> YES! In addition to being a great mobile and fixed station rig, it's a
>> backpacker's dream! Last summer, I loaned my KX3/KXPA100 with a 20Ah
>> LiFePO4 battery to AF6RT and W6JTI, who dragged it up a 2 mile trail
>> with a 1,000 ft gain in elevation to light up a rare 6M grid. They were
>> also dragging an antenna, coax, a computer, water, and lunch. At the end
>> of the day, they still had power left in that battery.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> On Tue,3/1/2016 12:08 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> Beyond that, the KX3:
>>>
>>> - is about 1/5th the size
>>> - is about 1/5th the weight
>>> - consumes probably 1/10th as much RX-mode current
>>> - has an internal battery
>>> - has an attached keyer paddle
>>> - has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC
>>> - works with integrated peripherals (PX3 and KXPA100) that can be
>>> left at
>>> your fixed station when traveling
>>>
>>> So if you're operating portable, it's an apples/oranges comparison.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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lstavenhagen

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Well, that would be my point, of course :). With Elecraft rigs, "you get what you pay for" means a completely different thing than it does with Elecraft's competitors. IMHO, of course.

And honestly, now that I've put the new synth in my K3 and just bought a K3S, I don't think there's a better performing pair of rigs I could buy at any cost, really. And they even work well /P with a battery and my buddipole, which is all the operating I'm able to do these days. So I kind of don't really even have a choice in the matter, even if they weren't already the best RX's you could buy....

73,
LS
W5QD.

Grant Youngman

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by Rick WA6NHC-2

The real question is … does anyone actually care? Maybe on an Icom list (?)

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I will keep my KX3 then. I like the idea it is 1/5th the size! All the other good features are bonus cream on top.

But, since Icom America Headquarters is just a few blocks from my house (probably 15 minutes walking time) I will wait for a bit and then wander down to see if they have the 7300 alive and hooked up in their ham-shack. They have a nice Stepper up about 75 feet for an antenna so it will be a nice test. Usually though, it takes a while for them to get new equipment in their shack. It took six months for the first 7800 to show up there after the first availability from retailers.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Since the 7300 uses direct sampling, it will have the same blocking dynamic range (BDR) problem as other radios in this class, especially multi-signal situations such as contesting. I also doubt it will beat the KX3 in close-spaced dynamic range, unless they used a very exotic, very expensive A-to-D converter. (Note that the only way the Flex 6700 series can achieve good close-in dynamic range is by turning on the preamp. This overcomes the very poor preamp-off MDS, but at an even greater cost in BDR.)
>
> Beyond that, the KX3:
>
> - is about 1/5th the size
> - is about 1/5th the weight
> - consumes probably 1/10th as much RX-mode current
> - has an internal battery
> - has an attached keyer paddle
> - has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC
> - works with integrated peripherals (PX3 and KXPA100) that can be left at
> your fixed station when traveling
>
> So if you're operating portable, it's an apples/oranges comparison.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
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ha4zd

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by N1EU

This is argument to upgrade to *KSYN3AUPG. *And also describes why the K
line is unbeatable.

73, István, ha4zd

On 3/1/2016 10:52 PM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> My experience with direct sampling radios (ANAN-100D & Flex 6500 in the
> shack alongside my K3s/P3) is that their front ends are plenty robust
> enough for contesting and low band dx'ing. N5AC made some interesting
> comments on the topic:
> https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/adc-overload-myths-debunked
>
> 73, Barry N1EU
>
>
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Johnny Siu

Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Hello JOe,
Checking from websites in JA, street price in Akihabara, Tokyo is far cheaper for IC7300.
73
Johnny VR2XMC

寄件人︰ "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
收件人︰ [hidden email]
傳送日期︰ 2016年03月2日 (週三) 5:18 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] Icom 7300 is available

If one is not a backpacker or wants 100W output - perhaps for mobile
work - the "traditional knob" interface, built in tuner, support for
the AH-3/AH-4 tuners at the antenna, 100W, etc. make the IC-7300 quite
interesting. IIRC, the 7300 will do PSK31/RTTY with an internal
decoder and attached keyboard. Icom's claimed RMDDR and phase noise
specifications will, if accurate, put the 7300 in the top echelon of
Sherwood's test results. The 7300 has what appears to be relatively
"tight" preselectors which should minimize the "composite signal level"
ADC overload (much more than the Flex-6300 with no preselectors) and
those with limited antennas (e.g. mobile, compromise wires, etc.) are
even less likely to see the strong signal composite overload than
someone with big antennas high in the air.

My disappointment is that after claiming the 7300 would be an "entry
level" rig, the price is well above that of Icom's other entry level
rigs (the IC-718 or IC-7100). At the announced price, the 7300 should
have included a RX ANT Out/RX ANT In "loop," support for a second
antenna, and a video output to feed a larger display.

At its size and power level the 7300 is not the "backpacker's special"
nor was it intended to be. To make that comparison is patently unfair.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 3/1/2016 3:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

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Barry K3NDM

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne,
If you remember Dayton, you saw some of what we do with the K line.
If you really want to know how strong the KX3 and K3 address ham radio
requirements, you really need to see our little group contest in the
low and high power categories and then switch to operate Field Day 3A
QRP.

The majority of our group belong to the Potomac Valley Radio Club.
What that means is there are at least a few of us who are serious; I
can't be called serious as I never learned to touch type. My point is
there is no other radio that I am aware of that can compete with the K
line when you look at what beginning through advanced hams need/want.

Let me change theme. I found it interesting that Icom said that they
were using direct sampling for the 7300. That statement contradicts what
they appear to really be doing. It appears to me that they are
digitizing a 36 KHz IF vice digitizing the spectrum as the Flex does.
Flex runs a 200 MHz 16 bit A/D that they use to produce the data on
which they operate. What I don't know from Icom is are they using a 16
or 24 bit A/D as you guys do; I prefer the 24 bit architecture. And, I
particularly prefer the KX3 architecture as you allowed me access the
I&Q data so I could play off the radio, something my friends with K3s
would have liked to have.

Vy 73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Wayne Burdick" <[hidden email]>
To: "Barry LaZar" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Bill" <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Sent: 3/1/2016 3:08:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom 7300 is available

>Hi Barry,
>
>> Interesting. I wonder how it will compare to my KX3.
>>
>> The only direct sampling complete rig that I was aware of was the
>>Flex 6000 series. I also wonder if it will be as flexible in operation
>>as a KX3. Ah technology, and so little time. ;-)
>
>Since the 7300 uses direct sampling, it will have the same blocking
>dynamic range (BDR) problem as other radios in this class, especially
>multi-signal situations such as contesting. I also doubt it will beat
>the KX3 in close-spaced dynamic range, unless they used a very exotic,
>very expensive A-to-D converter. (Note that the only way the Flex 6700
>series can achieve good close-in dynamic range is by turning on the
>preamp. This overcomes the very poor preamp-off MDS, but at an even
>greater cost in BDR.)
>
>Beyond that, the KX3:
>
> - is about 1/5th the size
> - is about 1/5th the weight
> - consumes probably 1/10th as much RX-mode current
> - has an internal battery
> - has an attached keyer paddle
> - has built-in stereo audio and CW/RTTY/PSK31 text decode with a PC
> - works with integrated peripherals (PX3 and KXPA100) that can be left
>at
> your fixed station when traveling
>
>So if you're operating portable, it's an apples/oranges comparison.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by N1EU

On 3/1/2016 4:52 PM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> N5AC made some interesting comments on the topic:
> https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/adc-overload-myths-debunked

N5AC is "talking his book" and totally out of touch with reality.
While he claims the issue of ADC overload is blown out of proportion
and cites mathematical models to support his claim, it doesn't always
work that way in the real world. Put another way, the real world is
not always "neat" with a bunch of similar level signals across a wide
spectrum. Try copying a -130 dBm signal among multiple -30 to -50 dBm
(S9+20 to S9+40 dB) amateur signals on 160 with a dozen AM signals also
present at -30 dBm to 0 dBm at the receiver input. See the spectrum
analyzer plot from K8AQC showing fifteen AM signals stronger than -40
dBm and *five* stronger than -10 dBm:
<http://cliftonlaboratories.com/z10020_am_medium_wave_band_reject_filter.htm>.
I doubt N5AC can show
that a Flex 6300, 6500, or even a 6700 (without the optional second
SCU) can *simultaneously* provide -130 dBm sensitivity and +100 dB
2 KHz IMDDR3 on 160 meters while running a second slice receiver
(panadapter) on 80 or 40 meters under those conditions in tests
certified by independent experts - yet those are the very conditions
he claims mathematically can't happen.

NC0B (in personal e-mail) has reported significant symptoms of ADC
overload with a non-Flex direct sampling SDR with a 250 MHz ADC on 160
meters at his *rural* Colorado location. ARRL Labs shows the same
trade off between sensitivity and IMDDR3 with the both the Flex 6300
and Flex 6700 in the April 2015 QST review
<http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD_REV_0415.pdf>.
The
review shows a substantial reduction in sensitivity with the preamp
turned off and a substantial fall-off in dynamic range with the preamp
turned on. ARRL does not even publish dynamic range at 2 KHz with the
highest gain preamp even though their measurements are made with only
two signals - not a dozen or more close in signals at the same high
level.

Sherwood shows the tradeoff between sensitivity and dynamic range in
his "Receiver Test Data" table <http://www.sherweng.com/table.html>.
It is most clear in the 100 KHz Blocking values where the Flex 6700
shows "A/D Limit varies with Preamp Gain" ... in other words, when the
preamp is on (as required for the -135 dBm sensitivity), the Blocking
values fall apart (vs. > 150 dB 100 KHz blocking range for the K3S).

The issue of ADC overload can't be simply dismissed by hand waving as
N5AC and others would like. The current technology is not robust
enough to simultaneously provide -145 dB MDS, 100 dB+ 2 KHz IMDDR3
and 130 dB+ Blocking Dynamic range as the case for the K3S, K3 and
KX3.

ADC technology - instantaneous peak voltage handling - needs to improve
another 10 to 20 dB before direct sampling can be said to be completely
reliable in all conditions. It may "work fine" in many locations where
antenna selectivity, external bandpass filters and even propagation
protect the ADC from overload. However, direct sampling does not work
well in the presence of multiple, very strong, close in signals as
shown by both ARRL and NC0B testing - no matter how much the proponents
of direct sampling would like to make you believe.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Ignacy

Re: Icom 7300 is available

IC-7300 may be a radio between IC-7100 or IC-7410. Its price probably will fall to $1000 like of 7100. Ultimately direct SDR is less expensive technology.

Regarding strong-signal handling, sometimes I set SDR-IQ (14 bit) as skimmer in 160m contests. Despite zillions of strong signals, SDR-IQ finds DX buried in noise that P3 barely can see.

$150 SDR-Play (0.1-2000MHz, 12 bit) shows capabilities and complexities of SDR. It consist of wide bandpass filters followed by a conversion unit followed by SDR machinery. One can choose zero or nonzero IFs. On HF large differences in strong-signal handling between the two. 2m reception better than IC-7000.

A competition keeps progress alive.

Ignacy, NO9E

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Icom 7300 is available

In reply to this post by lstavenhagen

Hard to compare other modern Icom transceivers to the 706 which had
about the worse rx of any of their rigs in the past 30 years. It was,
after all, a mobile rig designed several decades ago. The IC-7300 does
represent an interesting step forward in technology.

Large, touch-enabled, menu driven color screens are the future. It
eliminates a lot of physical controls that add considerably to the final
cost. The actual specifications aren't always the final measure of
cost/benefit. Usability and accessibility are very important factors as
well.

If I'm going to engage in serious contesting, the K3 is the obvious
choice. For everyday casual operating, I can have many enjoyable
contacts with one of my ancient Swan Cygnet 270B's. It's not always A
VS: B. Considering the features of the IC-7300 within it's price range
- it's got a lot to offer.

A K3s/100 and a P3 (to match the features of the IC-7300) is vastly more
expensive. So there is no fair comparison between the two.

A K3s with the same set of features as the IC-7300 will cost $4,269.75,
whereas the IC-7300 announced price (DXEngineering) is $1,499.00. So
that high-performance receiver essentially costs $2,770.75.

If you have spent serious time with an IC-7600, IC-7700, or IC-7800, you
would absolutely NOT say their performance is mediocre.

Doug -- K0DXV

On 3/1/16 2:29 PM, lstavenhagen wrote:

> I guess you get what you pay for. To my knowledge, only Elecraft is capable
> of producing receivers that top the charts over at Sherwood engineering but
> still cost only what their competitors' "entry level" rigs do.
>
> I don't think the Icom leopard is necessarily going to change its spots with
> the 7300, it never has in the past. Either the price is going to be really
> high or the performance mediocre (or maybe both). I personally have always
> been dismayed at how poor Icom's RX's have been even at the higher price
> ranges; even my K2 runs circles around my 706MKIIG in terms of RX
> performance.
>
> I think the highest bang/buck ratio is still held by Elecraft and I don't
> see that changing for quite a while...
>
> 73,
> LS
> W5QD
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Icom-7300-is-available-tp7614790p7614800.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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lstavenhagen

Re: Icom 7300 is available

Excellent points, Doug. Still, the bang/buck ratio belongs to Elecraft, especially at the high end, in my view. For example, if you took that $4,269 on the K line, added approx $2000 more to it and put it into an IC 7700, say, you come out far behind performance-wise and 2 grand poorer too. So I don't see how one really comes out ahead in that case.

I don't doubt at all that Icom's high end rigs are good rigs with good performance, but the K3 and K3S at the core of the Elecraft investment still far outperform them for less money. For me anyway, Icoms offer nothing comparable to the K line at the upper end of the $ range, not even close.

As for the 7300, though, I think you make an excellent point. It does offer a definite draw for the market you describe...

73,
LS
W5QD