Info 080 message started with RF Alignment and Test, Part II

[AC8HU]

Hi all -

Started build of my K2 a few weeks back and have been slowly progressing.  I must say I'm not an overly experienced builder - I've built a number of smaller kits, the largest being an MFJ shortwave regen receiver and one of the "Ice Tube" clocks you can find online - but all of my builds thus far have ended with success.  Through Part 1 of the RF board tests, all was well.  Upon reaching the part 2 tests, things appeared to be fine as well (4 MHz Oscillator Calibration checked out ok, and PLL Reference Oscillator Range Test was fine as well).  However when I proceded to the VCO Test, the problems started - with the first appearance of the Info 080 message.  I've had no luck in fixing the problem since.  Here's what I've found/checked:

1.)  X2 on the control board is the proper crystal - I was able to hear it on another receiver and zero-beat it by adjusting C22
2.)  Resistance between pin 28, U1 (RF board) and pin 40, U6 (control board) is 197 to 198 ohms - well below the 900 to 1000 it should be
3.)  Voltage on pin 28 of U1 (RF) is 0.14 V (close to 0, certainly nowhere near the 5-6 V range) - this apparently indicates that U1 is not programmed AND that the Aux Bus is open, although I've had no luck figuring out where the problem is with the Aux Bus
4.)  Checked voltage on pin 32 of the MCU (U6, control board) and found it to be exactly 5 V - checks haven't indicated any problems with the MCU I can find
5.)  I currently have no relay sound at startup.  I did previously (even with the first few startups of the Part 2 tests) however sometime after these problems started, the relay activity stopped.
6.)  Checking pins 1 and 20 of U1 on the RF board both give me 6 V
7.)  Measuring pin 28 of U1 to ground with power off gives me a high resistance value

I attempted a "456" reset as I've seen mentioned elsewhere - this seemed to do no good as following the 10 seconds of Info 201 message, instead of the "Elecraft" message, I got the Info 080 message again.  Pressing any button to continue past that results in a display of 00000.00 and what looks like part of the number 2, NOT the c to indicate CW mode.  I assume this is a result of U1 not properly communicating with U6 at this point.

Any suggestions?  At this point I'm fairly certain I have a fried (or "unprogrammed") U1, but I suspect I've got some other problem as well.  (I have been using an anti-static mat and wrist strap while building, however my soldering iron itself isn't grounded and perhaps should be.)  I'm quite the novice in terms of electronics so I can't really interpret the numbers I'm seeing other than to compare them to the baselines and see where things aren't correct.  Not totally discouraged at this point, but definitely distressed...

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Vic Rosenthal]

Try resoldering the connections to the MCU socket. Look at connections with a magnifier,
and heat and add a bit of solder to any that look grainy or otherwise not good.

The fact that it worked partially and then stopped working suggests a flaky solder joint
rather than a wiring mistake!

On 10/24/2012 9:10 PM, AC8HU wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> Started build of my K2 a few weeks back and have been slowly progressing.  I
> must say I'm not an overly experienced builder - I've built a number of
> smaller kits, the largest being an MFJ shortwave regen receiver and one of
> the "Ice Tube" clocks you can find online - but all of my builds thus far
> have ended with success.  Through Part 1 of the RF board tests, all was
> well.  Upon reaching the part 2 tests, things appeared to be fine as well (4
> MHz Oscillator Calibration checked out ok, and PLL Reference Oscillator
> Range Test was fine as well).  However when I proceded to the VCO Test, the
> problems started - with the first appearance of the Info 080 message.  I've
> had no luck in fixing the problem since.  Here's what I've found/checked:
>
> 1.)  X2 on the control board is the proper crystal - I was able to hear it
> on another receiver and zero-beat it by adjusting C22
> 2.)  Resistance between pin 28, U1 (RF board) and pin 40, U6 (control board)
> is 197 to 198 ohms - well below the 900 to 1000 it should be
> 3.)  Voltage on pin 28 of U1 (RF) is 0.14 V (close to 0, certainly nowhere
> near the 5-6 V range) - this apparently indicates that U1 is not programmed
> AND that the Aux Bus is open, although I've had no luck figuring out where
> the problem is with the Aux Bus
> 4.)  Checked voltage on pin 32 of the MCU (U6, control board) and found it
> to be exactly 5 V - checks haven't indicated any problems with the MCU I can
> find
> 5.)  I currently have no relay sound at startup.  I did previously (even
> with the first few startups of the Part 2 tests) however sometime after
> these problems started, the relay activity stopped.
> 6.)  Checking pins 1 and 20 of U1 on the RF board both give me 6 V
> 7.)  Measuring pin 28 of U1 to ground with power off gives me a high
> resistance value
>
> I attempted a "456" reset as I've seen mentioned elsewhere - this seemed to
> do no good as following the 10 seconds of Info 201 message, instead of the
> "Elecraft" message, I got the Info 080 message again.  Pressing any button
> to continue past that results in a display of 00000.00 and what looks like
> part of the number 2, NOT the c to indicate CW mode.  I assume this is a
> result of U1 not properly communicating with U6 at this point.
>
> Any suggestions?  At this point I'm fairly certain I have a fried (or
> "unprogrammed") U1, but I suspect I've got some other problem as well.  (I
> have been using an anti-static mat and wrist strap while building, however
> my soldering iron itself isn't grounded and perhaps should be.)  I'm quite
> the novice in terms of electronics so I can't really interpret the numbers
> I'm seeing other than to compare them to the baselines and see where things
> aren't correct.  Not totally discouraged at this point, but definitely
> distressed...
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Info-080-message-started-with-RF-Alignment-and-Test-Part-II-tp7564545.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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--
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

The INFO 080 message means that the MCU (Control Board U1) is not
communicating with some other firmware IC over the AUXBUS signal line.  
The only other controller that is present at this stage of your build is
the MCIO in the middle of the RF board.

I would suggest that it is a solder connection that is at fault. Check
the soldering at RF Board U1 pin 28 as well as resistor R64. On the
control board check U6 pin 40 and resistor R6.
For completeness, you should also check the Control Board to RF Board
connectors CB P2 pin 28 and RF J7 pin 28.  Those double row connectors
anr numbered with odd numbers down one side and even numbers down the
other side.  Pin 2 is opposite pin 1.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/25/2012 12:10 AM, AC8HU wrote:
> However when I proceded to the VCO Test, the
> problems started - with the first appearance of the Info 080 message.  I've
> had no luck in fixing the problem since.  Here's what I've found/checked:
>
>

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[AC8HU]

I will check and reheat soldering points as suggested, probably later this evening when I'm back home from work, and post how things go.  Thanks for the quick suggestions!

[AC8HU]

Ok, some news to report!

First off, I checked all suggested solder points and basically reheated them all just to be sure, although none really seemed suspect.  Figured might as well give them a once over.  Started the radio up again and no change...was about to sleep on it again, then figured it wouldn't hurt anything to give it another "456" reset.  Surprise, after the Info 201 on restart, the "Elecraft" message pops up with no Info 080...and I have relay activity again.  Changing bands also gives me relay sound with each change, and still no Info 080.  I am also now seeing 5.44 V on pin 28 so it seems that U1 is actually ok.  Soo...there's the good news.

Now, for the bad.  The resistance between pin 28, U1 and pin 40, U6 is unchanged...still too low.  And another odd thing that I thought was just a result of my problems with the Info 080 message...the VFO knob is having no effect, whether it's changing the frequency or trying to scroll through menus.  Previously it worked fine.  I'm missing the nut to secure the shaft for the VFO controller to the front panel, but by fitting the VFO knob to the shaft snugly to the front panel, it worked fine before (I planned to email and get a replacement sent at some point but didn't want that one thing holding up my build).  I probably have more soldering to check there, but should I be worried about the low resistance value I'm seeing?

[Don Wilhelm-4]

The resistance between Control Board U6 pin 40 and RF Board U1 pin 28
should be the sum of CB R6 and RF R64.  Both should be 100 ohms (check
both).  If the resistance between those two pins is less than the sum of
those resistors, you have a solder bridge somewhere.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/26/2012 2:20 AM, AC8HU wrote:

> Now, for the bad.  The resistance between pin 28, U1 and pin 40, U6 is
> unchanged...still too low.  And another odd thing that I thought was just a
> result of my problems with the Info 080 message...the VFO knob is having no
> effect, whether it's changing the frequency or trying to scroll through
> menus.  Previously it worked fine.  I'm missing the nut to secure the shaft
> for the VFO controller to the front panel, but by fitting the VFO knob to
> the shaft snugly to the front panel, it worked fine before (I planned to
> email and get a replacement sent at some point but didn't want that one
> thing holding up my build).  I probably have more soldering to check there,
> but should I be worried about the low resistance value I'm seeing?
>

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[AC8HU]

Ok that's what I'd thought about the resistance value there - the note (on Info 080 troubleshooting, in builder resources) had said that the resistors should be 470 ohm, and that the range should be 900-1000 ohm.  However all through the manual those resistors are referred to as 100 ohm, which is what I have installed at those points, and my measured resistance value of around 198 ohm would be just about dead on.  So no concern there.

Just have to figure out what my VFO knob problem is now - checked solder points on the small optical encoder board and then gave it another shot, and it's still not working.  Just as before with the sudden appearance of the Info 080 message, there's probably one solder point somewhere that's flaky and it's causing my problem.

[Don Wilhelm-4]

OK, the resistors were changed from 470 ohms to 100 ohma with the A to B
changes (SN 3000), so your measurements are correct.

Give us some more detail about the VFO knob problem and we may be able
to help.

As I indicated for another ham having VFO knob problems, look at the
Front Panel board schematic as a reference.  Be certain there is 5 volts
at the encoder pin 4, then power off and check the resistance between
pin 4 and ground - it should be zero.  If those checks are OK, then
monitor the ENC A and ENC B signal lines while moving the VFO knob very
slowly.  The voltage should change from 5 volts to zero volts (give or
take a half volt or so) if things are working OK.

Funny, but I feel as though I have responded to this same situation
within the past 2 days - it seems that such problems appear in three's,
so I am waiting for the 3rd :"shoe" to drop.

73,
Don W3FPR
On 10/26/2012 9:17 PM, AC8HU wrote:

> Ok that's what I'd thought about the resistance value there - the note (on
> Info 080 troubleshooting, in builder resources) had said that the resistors
> should be 470 ohm, and that the range should be 900-1000 ohm.  However all
> through the manual those resistors are referred to as 100 ohm, which is what
> I have installed at those points, and my measured resistance value of around
> 198 ohm would be just about dead on.  So no concern there.
>
> Just have to figure out what my VFO knob problem is now - checked solder
> points on the small optical encoder board and then gave it another shot, and
> it's still not working.  Just as before with the sudden appearance of the
> Info 080 message, there's probably one solder point somewhere that's flaky
> and it's causing my problem.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Info-080-message-started-with-RF-Alignment-and-Test-Part-II-tp7564545p7564638.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[AC8HU]

Well I thought I was going to be coming on to post what I'd found with the VFO problem...but now, the Info 080 is back.  As far as the VFO, I discovered that if I removed the two screws that connect the control board and front panel board (so that they're not drawn snug to each other), the VFO works.  It almost seems like the back of the optical encoder board is somehow shorting to the control board?  I don't know...I put a couple pieces of electrical tape on the back of the encoder board and gently connected the two together with the screws and the VFO was still working.

At that point, I went back to the Part 1 tests and alignment, and started working through Part 1 and Part 2 again.  Everything was once again fine up until the exact same point - when I switched bands to the 80 meter band, before tuning to 4000.10, the Info 080 message popped up again.  I said several things I won't say here, then proceded to do the frequency counter check anyways just to see where I am.  I didn't actually make a note of the value but the frequency was somewhere around 10800, a range of 8 to 10 MHz is specified so this would be marginally acceptable (?) I guess.  Just out of curiousity, I went ahead and checked the voltage on the left end of R30 (as described in the next step) and found it to be almost exactly 0.00 V - and adjusting the slug inductor made no difference.  Prior to the reappearance of the Info 080 message (but before the VFO working again), I had checked this value, and again didn't write down what the exact numbers were, but I had some sort of reading and was able to make adjustment over a wide range using the slug inductor.

Finally, I tried restarting the radio (figuring I knew what would happen), and the Info 080 message appeared immediately at startup, and I noticed that relay activity is one again nonexistant.

Now I'm rather discouraged.  I didn't check further but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm once again seeing the same problems with voltages on U1 and such.  Knowing the little bit I know about computer troubleshooting, it seems that I can narrow the problem down to something that's resulting from the switch from 40 meters to 80 meters while doing frequency counter checks...but I have no clue at all what that problem could be.  My best guess, since relay activity comes and goes with the Info 080 message, and these problems start when I change bands during these tests, is still some sort of problem with U1, as I've been over solder connections several times.

[Don Wilhelm-4]

You apparently have the new VFO encoder with the PC board that has a few
components on it.  Not only the encoder board, but the Control Board
leads in the area indicated must be flush cut (flush with the board).  
Your tape will provide a temporary fix, but I suggest you do a good job
of flush cutting the leads (including ICs because the cut leads may
eventually punch through the tape and cause problems later).

As for the Info 080 messages, refer to my prior responses especially the
connectors and RF board R64 and Control Board R6.

The zero voltage at the left end of R30 is due to a problem in the VFO
Range Select area (see the schematic for the relays and capacitors
involved).

It seems that you are having soldering problems in general.  Turn your
soldering temperature up to 750 degF and look critically at each solder
connection.  The solder should flow out to an almost invisible edge on
both the solder pad and the component lead and result in a concave
solder fillet.  If your solder connections are convex (or look more like
'balls'), then the connection did not receive enough heat.  Several
builders have this problem because they remember the old days when
soldering irons did not have temperature control and the result was
lifted solder pads and heat damaged components.  That is not the case
today with temperature controlled irons and components rated for up to
10 seconds of soldering temperatures.  I suggest you re-flow the
soldering on all the K2 boards that you have assembled - watch the
solder as it flows, and if it does not fill the solder pad, add a small
bit of solder.  In some cases, you may have to use solder wick to remove
excess solder and then solder that connection anew.  Use a soldering
temperature of 750 degF or higher.

After the re-soldering exercise, go through the alignment procedures again.

73,
Don W3FPR


On 10/27/2012 2:06 AM, AC8HU wrote:

> Well I thought I was going to be coming on to post what I'd found with the
> VFO problem...but now, the Info 080 is back.  As far as the VFO, I
> discovered that if I removed the two screws that connect the control board
> and front panel board (so that they're not drawn snug to each other), the
> VFO works.  It almost seems like the back of the optical encoder board is
> somehow shorting to the control board?  I don't know...I put a couple pieces
> of electrical tape on the back of the encoder board and gently connected the
> two together with the screws and the VFO was still working.
>
> At that point, I went back to the Part 1 tests and alignment, and started
> working through Part 1 and Part 2 again.  Everything was once again fine up
> until the exact same point - when I switched bands to the 80 meter band,
> before tuning to 4000.10, the Info 080 message popped up again.  I said
> several things I won't say here, then proceded to do the frequency counter
> check anyways just to see where I am.  I didn't actually make a note of the
> value but the frequency was somewhere around 10800, a range of 8 to 10 MHz
> is specified so this would be marginally acceptable (?) I guess.  Just out
> of curiousity, I went ahead and checked the voltage on the left end of R30
> (as described in the next step) and found it to be almost exactly 0.00 V -
> and adjusting the slug inductor made no difference.  Prior to the
> reappearance of the Info 080 message (but before the VFO working again), I
> had checked this value, and again didn't write down what the exact numbers
> were, but I had some sort of reading and was able to make adjustment over a
> wide range using the slug inductor.
>
> Finally, I tried restarting the radio (figuring I knew what would happen),
> and the Info 080 message appeared immediately at startup, and I noticed that
> relay activity is one again nonexistant.
>
> Now I'm rather discouraged.  I didn't check further but I wouldn't be
> surprised if I'm once again seeing the same problems with voltages on U1 and
> such.  Knowing the little bit I know about computer troubleshooting, it
> seems that I can narrow the problem down to something that's resulting from
> the switch from 40 meters to 80 meters while doing frequency counter
> checks...but I have no clue at all what that problem could be.  My best
> guess, since relay activity comes and goes with the Info 080 message, and
> these problems start when I change bands during these tests, is still some
> sort of problem with U1, as I've been over solder connections several times.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Info-080-message-started-with-RF-Alignment-and-Test-Part-II-tp7564545p7564649.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[AC8HU]

I can't really say for sure that every one of my soldering connections is perfect, there may be one or a couple in there that are still flaky (which is all it would take, obviously).  However as far as I can tell, I don't have a consistent problem with soldering.  The connections are all shiny, solder flows from the component lead out to the edges of the pads, not in little balls (the few times I've had one of these happen I've taken care of it when it happened).  I don't have an iron that I can specifically select a temperature on but it's a 50 watt iron that is adjustable - I have it set probably around 80-85% of full power.  I've found if I go higher I actually tend to end up with discolored spots on boards at times - but I don't know the exact temperature.  (I thought I vaguely remembered that a 50 watt iron usually was 800 degrees?  Maybe not though.)

I've used two different types of solder in the process - the first was the end of a spool from Radio Shack that was 60/38/2 silver bearing, and the spool I'm on now is also Radio Shack but 60/40.

I still really lean towards the fact that the problem reappeared at the exact same point, down to the precise button press (switching to 80 meters while in CAL FCTr), suggesting that there's a problem with a component.  It just seems that since the problem didn't appear randomly along the way but at the same exact moment, it wouldn't just be a solder connection.  A poor solder connection would be prone to going out at any moment and the odds of it doing it the exact same time?

[Don Wilhelm-4]

The K2 will not change bands while in CAL FCTR.  If you attempt to do
that, the result will be the frequency created when the output of the
DAC is at zero volts (assuming you tapped the BAND- button), and if you
tapped the BAND+ button, the frequency will be that which is produced
when the DAC voltage is at its highest.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/27/2012 1:59 PM, AC8HU wrote:
> I still really lean towards the fact that the problem reappeared at the
> exact same point, down to the precise button press (switching to 80 meters
> while in CAL FCTr), suggesting that there's a problem with a component.  It
> just seems that since the problem didn't appear randomly along the way but
> at the same exact moment, it wouldn't just be a solder connection.  A poor
> solder connection would be prone to going out at any moment and the odds of
> it doing it the exact same time?
>

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[AC8HU]

I guess I said it wrong - I was referring to the VCO Test in Part 2 for the RF Board.  After the PLL Reference Oscillator Test, I changed bands to 80 meters and was about to adjust frequency to 4000.10 when the Info 080 message popped up again.  As I stated, when using CAL FCTR the frequency I found at this point (after the Info 080 message had appeared) was around 10800.00 - slightly above the 8 to 10 MHz range specified.  However, it was fairly stable.

After attempting another 456 reset this afternoon, the Info 080 message persists, just like it did before, with the same 00000.00 frequency reading, and the same last character that looks like a 2 missing one segment (not a c).  Additionally, something I didn't mention before but had happened before as well, when the Info 080 message appears at this stage, the LCD appears to default, or revert, to the day setting - the green backlight goes out.

It just feels like a hardware issue to me, from what I've experienced with computer troubleshooting in the past.  The same exact problems appeared at the same exact point in the tests...and everything else, test wise, had worked fine up until this point.  The problem for me is that I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough about the circuits involved, or what individual components in the circuits do, to know where the actual issue lies...

[Don Wilhelm-4]

You have mentioned 4 problems now - the Info 080 problem, the LCD
backlight, a missing segment on the last character displayed, and a zero
frequency reading when doing the VCO test.

Neither of those problems are related to the other problems, so I
strongly suspect that your soldering is at fault.  Check all your solder
connections against the figures in the soldering tutorial that can be
downloaded from the Elecraft website.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/28/2012 2:16 AM, AC8HU wrote:

> I guess I said it wrong - I was referring to the VCO Test in Part 2 for the
> RF Board.  After the PLL Reference Oscillator Test, I changed bands to 80
> meters and was about to adjust frequency to 4000.10 when the Info 080
> message popped up again.  As I stated, when using CAL FCTR the frequency I
> found at this point (after the Info 080 message had appeared) was around
> 10800.00 - slightly above the 8 to 10 MHz range specified.  However, it was
> fairly stable.
>
> After attempting another 456 reset this afternoon, the Info 080 message
> persists, just like it did before, with the same 00000.00 frequency reading,
> and the same last character that looks like a 2 missing one segment (not a
> c).  Additionally, something I didn't mention before but had happened before
> as well, when the Info 080 message appears at this stage, the LCD appears to
> default, or revert, to the day setting - the green backlight goes out.
>
> It just feels like a hardware issue to me, from what I've experienced with
> computer troubleshooting in the past.  The same exact problems appeared at
> the same exact point in the tests...and everything else, test wise, had
> worked fine up until this point.  The problem for me is that I'm not nearly
> knowledgeable enough about the circuits involved, or what individual
> components in the circuits do, to know where the actual issue lies...
>
>

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[ke9uw]

Has anyone found any difficulties running Win8 in regard to using the Elecraft utilities for upgrade, etc?

Chuck, KE9UW
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[W4JBB]

Chuck,

I downloaded and have installed Win8 on a second partition.

Thus far, all of the Elecraft utilities have worked with a caveat - I
installed the K3 utility and it worked fine.  I installed the P3 utility
and could not talk to the P3.  At that point, I installed Fldigi and
Flrig.  Neither would talk to the K3 on the correct port (well, neither
Fldigi nor Flrig saw *any* com port).  I restarted Win8 and the problem
was resolved.  For whatever reason, once the K3 utility started, it
didn't want to release the com port.  After a restart, Flrig talked to
the K3 through the P3 and also controlled Flidigi as it should.  I have
not noticed this problem again.  I did not take the default install
location and changed it to C:\Elecraft\...  I have *not* been able to
turn off UAC in Win8 as I have in Win7.  Even though it should be off, I
still get warnings. Oh, I almost forgot, when I installed the K3
utility, I got a Win8 warning.  I do not remember the verbage, but I hit
"More Info" and then "Run Anyway" (or something similar).  I did not get
this warning with either the P3 or KX3 utilities.  I also got this
warning upon installation of either Flrig or Fldigi but I don't remember
which (it was not both).

I also have a KX3 and I downloaded and installed the KX3 utility.  I
even updated the firmware on the KX3 with no issues.

I will say that I hate/love the Win8 interface.  If you've ever used
Ubuntu Linux and gone from Gnome to Unity, it's a similar change.
However, I think the new Windows interface is slightly (I mean slightly)
more intuitive than Unity.  I am slowly installing stuff on the Win8
partition.  I may just buy a second SSD and install Win8 and Win7
side-by-side albeit on separate hard drives.

There are actually two interfaces:

1) Metro UI - this is geared toward the tablet / touchscreen crowd, but
it works okay with a mouse.  To close an open "app," you drag it to the
bottom of the screen.  I searched for a long time on how to do this.  I
never could find a "close" button.  Also, in the Metro UI, all the apps
pop up full screen.  There is no way to resize a window in Metro that I
have found.  Again, think tablet.

2) Desktop - this is what most Windows users are familiar with.  It
works just as the previous versions' desktops except there is no "Start"
button.

Programs that are installed (if you choose to install a shortcut to the
desktop) will give you an icon on both Metro and the desktop.

I stated more than you asked and apologize for taking this OT.

73,
Joel - W4JBB


On 10/28/2012 10:51 AM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
> Has anyone found any difficulties running Win8 in regard to using the Elecraft utilities for upgrade, etc?
>
> Chuck, KE9UW

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