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Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

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Phil Hystad-3

Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

On a couple of earlier messages (one from Rob Sherwood) the notion of a "fun" radio to operate was raised and how that might become a deciding factor among many different radios with similar receive performance.

My question is what is a fun radio? I have heard that some think the K3, being somewhat menu driven, is not a fun radio where as something like a Yaesu with a button and knob for every function is fun. I must be a contrarian because I think the less buttons without compromising performance or functionality is better.

For example, I also have an Icom Pro 3 that has buttons for some menu options on my K3. I use those Icom buttons so rarely that sometimes I need to look up in the user guide again to remind myself what they do and how to use them. Anything rarely used in my opinion is fodder for menu operation.

So, if I wanted to buy a fun radio, which one would it be? I would like to know more of what people consider fun in this regard because it is a mystery to me.

73, phil, K7PEH

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WB4SON

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

That Yaesu rig to which you refer takes up a lot more space and weighs
several times what my K3 does -- which is another factor.

I find that I rarely use the K3 menus. In my case that was mostly a set
and forget thing. Beyond that I find it very easy and "fun" to use my K3.
Unlike a brand new, best in Icom "thinking" IC9100 which was a nightmare to
use by comparison (and nowhere near the performance) which required
constant menu interaction for the most mundane things. I rarely use the
9100 for that reason.

Human factors are very important and seem to be often overlooked. For an
example of how not to do things, just take a look at some of the cheap dual
band handhelds coming from China.

73, Bob, WB4SON
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73, Bob, WB4SON

Tony Scandurra K4QE

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

"Fun is in the eye of the beholder."

Pardon the wordplay, but I think it is clear that everyone has their own
vision of fun.

It depends on the operating circumstances as well.

No easy answers...

73, Tony K4QE
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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

To me, part of what makes a rig "fun" to operate is, q

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anthony Scandurra <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Fun is in the eye of the beholder."
>
> Pardon the wordplay, but I think it is clear that everyone has their own
> vision of fun.
>
> It depends on the operating circumstances as well.
>
> No easy answers...
>
> 73, Tony K4QE
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
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Keith Heimbold

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Tony Scandurra K4QE

I have owned some yaesu rigs (FT950, 920,450,857D) and most have menus at one level or another. The FT920 was the easiest one to operate but the other three had levels of menus similar to the K3.

I think the K3 may have a steeper learning curve compared to those other radios, but once you get familiarized with the radio it is easy and fun.

Plus it is way more fun to hear (and then work) stations that you cannot hear on those other radios and I have done A/B testing and can attest to those extra DXCC entity contacts that I would not have had without the K3. So definitely more fun for me.

Keith
AK6ZZ

Sent from my iPhone please excuse typos

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:14 AM, "Anthony Scandurra" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Sorry, all. I had an extreme "fat finger" moment and accidentally sent my
incomplete reply.

As I was saying, part of what makes a rig "fun" to operate is, quite
simply, can I make the contact? To make it a bit more complex, can I make
the contact regardless of what band/mode I'm operating on. With the K3, I
can say, unequivocally, yes. I had an FT-857D before my K3. I still think
that is an excellent rig and, in fact, it is now installed in my car for
mobile operating. But, due to performance differences, there are simply
contacts I've made on my K3, the first try, that I never would have gotten,
or even heard, on the FT-857, all else being equal.

I appreciate the fact that the "set and forget" functions on the K3 are
mostly in the menus and the functions I'm likely to use while operating are
clearly labeled buttons or knobs on front of the transceiver.

To me, this combination of features absolutely makes the K3 a "fun" rig to
operate.

73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
K3 #281, P3 #688
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Ian Kahn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To me, part of what makes a rig "fun" to operate is, q
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anthony Scandurra <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> "Fun is in the eye of the beholder."
>>
>> Pardon the wordplay, but I think it is clear that everyone has their own
>> vision of fun.
>>
>> It depends on the operating circumstances as well.
>>
>> No easy answers...
>>
>> 73, Tony K4QE
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>

--
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

"Fun" is being able to work a weak station in between two strong ones -
the K3 can do that.
With the subRX, you can listen to the DX and the pileup and pick your
transmit frequency - that is 'fun'.

Like my Mazda, it is 'sure-footed' in curves and has good performance -
that makes it 'fun' to drive.
Of course, to each his own.
Last Field Day a few operators used my K3 - comments received were that
it heard little QRM even on crowded bands and it was easy to make
contacts because of that. I would say that is what makes a 'fun' radio.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/16/2013 1:03 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

> On a couple of earlier messages (one from Rob Sherwood) the notion of a "fun" radio to operate was raised and how that might become a deciding factor among many different radios with similar receive performance.
>
> My question is what is a fun radio? I have heard that some think the K3, being somewhat menu driven, is not a fun radio where as something like a Yaesu with a button and knob for every function is fun. I must be a contrarian because I think the less buttons without compromising performance or functionality is better.
>
> For example, I also have an Icom Pro 3 that has buttons for some menu options on my K3. I use those Icom buttons so rarely that sometimes I need to look up in the user guide again to remind myself what they do and how to use them. Anything rarely used in my opinion is fodder for menu operation.
>
> So, if I wanted to buy a fun radio, which one would it be? I would like to know more of what people consider fun in this regard because it is a mystery to me.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

I too agree that the notion of "fun" is in the eye of the beholder. In some social gatherings, my wife might mention that I regularly take "math" books to bed at night for casual night time reading. Things like differential geometry, topology, group theory, etc. There are the obvious chuckles from others about my reading choices as most think that math is NOT fun. But, too me it is very enjoyable and a passion.

So, fun is in the eye of the beholder but I was mostly looking for opinions (as has been shown so far) into what fun is in a radio because I had never thought that much about it. But, I do agree that the multiple button pushes for band changing on the K3 is a hassle which is one reason I bought the KPA500 since the individual band push buttons erase that problem -- I also use it as an amplifier too.

About that K3 band press problem -- I have a fix for it but I wonder if Eric and Wayne would agree. I would use the 12 buttons just to the right of the display on the K3 (the 12 button 3x4 grid) as band buttons with the help of an escape key. That is, just two button pushes for any band. Just push the escape key which holds the escape function for two seconds say and then press the appropriate button identified for the band. For 160 thru 2 (2 meter option) you would need to use all 12 buttons. The work of course would probably require re-labeling the buttons in a worst case besides firmware modification. Possibilities for the escape key would maybe be the frequency enter but that would be problematic or maybe the SUB key button and then change that out to be a press/Hold style where the hold is either escape function or sub function. This may need a hardware change for the button maybe.

phil

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Ian Kahn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, all. I had an extreme "fat finger" moment and accidentally sent my incomplete reply.
>
> As I was saying, part of what makes a rig "fun" to operate is, quite simply, can I make the contact? To make it a bit more complex, can I make the contact regardless of what band/mode I'm operating on. With the K3, I can say, unequivocally, yes. I had an FT-857D before my K3. I still think that is an excellent rig and, in fact, it is now installed in my car for mobile operating. But, due to performance differences, there are simply contacts I've made on my K3, the first try, that I never would have gotten, or even heard, on the FT-857, all else being equal.
>
> I appreciate the fact that the "set and forget" functions on the K3 are mostly in the menus and the functions I'm likely to use while operating are clearly labeled buttons or knobs on front of the transceiver.
>
> To me, this combination of features absolutely makes the K3 a "fun" rig to operate.
>
> 73,
>
> --Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Ian Kahn <[hidden email]> wrote:
> To me, part of what makes a rig "fun" to operate is, q
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anthony Scandurra <[hidden email]> wrote:
> "Fun is in the eye of the beholder."
>
> Pardon the wordplay, but I think it is clear that everyone has their own
> vision of fun.
>
> It depends on the operating circumstances as well.
>
> No easy answers...
>
> 73, Tony K4QE
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA EM74ua
> [hidden email]
> K3 #281, P3 #688
> HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team
>
>
>
> --
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

On 1/16/2013 10:03 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> My question is what is a fun radio? I have heard that some think the K3, being somewhat menu driven, is not a fun radio where as something like a Yaesu with a button and knob for every function is fun.

You have heard wrong. The radio is VERY easy to operate. Menus on the
K3 are used to change SETUP functions -- that is, to tailor the radio to
the way you want to use it.

Virtually everything you would normally do while USING the radio on the
air is on the front panel in the form of knobs or buttons. Most have
multiple functions -- a short push does the most commonly needed thing,
a long push of a button does something else. Both functions are printed
on the panel, in different colors. Likewise, knobs have multiple
functions, activated either by mode (CW, SSB, or digital), or by
toggling between functions, with LEDs telling you which function is
selected. Again, most commonly used functions are the default. For
example, one knob is mic gain in SSB, or CW speed. Another knob is
Power Out, or Compression. Two knobs set the IF bandwidth, and can be
used as either Bandwidth and Shift, or as Low and High audio frequency
of the IF. Toggling is done by simply a push on the knob. There's a
button that turns the second RX on and off, puts the radio in Diversity
Mode, or sets in Tracking mode (that is, for things like Satellite work).

There are two levels of menus -- the first level accesses those things
you are most likely to want to change, like VOX sensitivity, and whether
you want to use only the mic as a source for SSB, the mic plus the line
input, or only the line input. The radio is VERY flexible, and can be
used in many different ways, and can be optimized for many different
applications. You can, for example, change AGC slopes, have the radio
remember most settings, including Power Out by band, remember Mic/Line
choices by mode, and so on. Another menu function is to set the 8-band
equalizers for TX and RX (separately). Again, these are functions you
only do when you either start with the radio or start using a new mic or
headphones.

Another feature is that ANY two menu functions can be assigned to two
"soft" buttons. So far, I've found a need for only one of them -- I
have my Yamaha CM500 plugged into the rear panel, and I sometimes want
to use the speaker at the same time, so one of those buttons Toggles the
Speaker on and off without turning off the Phones.

So, bottom line, the K3 is VERY easy to operate, everything you normally
need is on the front panel knobs or buttons, the menus are rarely used,
and easy to use if you RTFM.

73, Jim K9YC
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/16/2013 10:03 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> My question is what is a fun radio? I have heard that some think the K3, being somewhat menu driven, is not a fun radio where as something like a Yaesu with a button and knob for every function is fun.
>
> You have heard wrong. The radio is VERY easy to operate. Menus on the K3 are used to change SETUP functions -- that is, to tailor the radio to the way you want to use it.
>

No Jim, I have heard right. I hear a lot of people say that the K3 is menu driven and therefore not easy to operate. On Eham for example, just about every time someone suggests the K3 as a good radio to have, someone else or multiple someones will raise that complaint about the K3. If I am in some QSO and give my rig as the K3 someone might ask if it is hard to use with the menus and all that.

But, you have me pegged wrong though. I am not saying it is hard to operate. I love my K3 and I would not switch away from it for any radio that now exists (I may switch to something yet to be built and most likely something new and improved like an Elecraft K4 or K5 or whatever. But, the fact is, among those who have not used a K3, this one complaint about it versus other radios like yaesus or whatever seems to be a stickler. I agree that it is not well founded but it does exist.

Disclaimer: I own a KX1, KX3, K3, P3, KPA500, KAT500 and several of the mini-module kits.

phil

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Phil,

The ability to use 10 of those 12 buttons is already present - look at
"Quick Memories" in the manual.
The 'escape' button is the M>V button, giving you the 2 button band
change you want.
I almost never use the band up/down buttons on my K3.

73,
Don W3FPR
On 1/16/2013 1:45 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>
> About that K3 band press problem -- I have a fix for it but I wonder if Eric and Wayne would agree. I would use the 12 buttons just to the right of the display on the K3 (the 12 button 3x4 grid) as band buttons with the help of an escape key. That is, just two button pushes for any band. Just push the escape key which holds the escape function for two seconds say and then press the appropriate button identified for the band. For 160 thru 2 (2 meter option) you would need to use all 12 buttons. The work of course would probably require re-labeling the buttons in a worst case besides firmware modification. Possibilities for the escape key would maybe be the frequency enter but that would be problematic or maybe the SUB key button and then change that out to be a press/Hold style where the hold is either escape function or sub function. This may need a hardware change for the button maybe.
>
>

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Ted Bryant

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate? - Absolutely !!
Are there other "fun" radios to operate? - Absolutely !!

Now, can we have FUN and make some QSO's (while we have a few sunspots)!

For example, come play in K6VVA's "Locust QSO Party"
(http://www.k6vva.com/lqp/) which is tonight at 0200-0259z.

73, Ted W4NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

On Jan 16, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/16/2013 10:03 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> My question is what is a fun radio? I have heard that some think the K3,
being somewhat menu driven, is not a fun radio where as something like a
Yaesu with a button and knob for every function is fun.
>
> You have heard wrong. The radio is VERY easy to operate. Menus on the K3
are used to change SETUP functions -- that is, to tailor the radio to the
way you want to use it.
>

No Jim, I have heard right. I hear a lot of people say that the K3 is menu
driven and therefore not easy to operate. On Eham for example, just about
every time someone suggests the K3 as a good radio to have, someone else or
multiple someones will raise that complaint about the K3. If I am in some
QSO and give my rig as the K3 someone might ask if it is hard to use with
the menus and all that.

But, you have me pegged wrong though. I am not saying it is hard to
operate. I love my K3 and I would not switch away from it for any radio
that now exists (I may switch to something yet to be built and most likely
something new and improved like an Elecraft K4 or K5 or whatever. But, the
fact is, among those who have not used a K3, this one complaint about it
versus other radios like yaesus or whatever seems to be a stickler. I agree
that it is not well founded but it does exist.

Disclaimer: I own a KX1, KX3, K3, P3, KPA500, KAT500 and several of the
mini-module kits.

phil

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

On 1/16/2013 10:55 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> No Jim, I have heard right. I hear a lot of people say that the K3 is menu driven and therefore not easy to operate. On Eham for example, just about every time someone suggests the K3 as a good radio to have, someone else or multiple someones will raise that complaint about the K3. If I am in some QSO and give my rig as the K3 someone might ask if it is hard to use with the menus and all that.

Again, you have heard wrong. It's the "oft repeated lie" that if
repeated often enough is believed as gospel. People repeat what they
have heard, and often from folks who have no knowledge of the facts (in
this case, don't own the radio). Anyone awake during our recent
political campaigns heard MANY examples of this.

I own three K3s, two of them for at least three years, and I almost
never use the menus except to set VOX levels. I operate about 20
contests a year, CW, SSB, RTTY, run SO2R for most of them. During the
week I do DXing on CW and SSB, use JT65, mostly on 160, and occasionally
use several of the WSJT modes on 6M.

Before the K3s, I've owned FT1000MPs, IC746s, TS850s, K2s, an Omni V.9,
and Omni A, and an FT100D. I've also used, briefly, an IC7000 in my
neighbor's mobile setup. The 746, IC7000, and FT100D are so "menu
driven" for normal on-the-air functions that they are almost unusable.
The MP menus are no thrill, and the radio is FAR less versatile and a
good notch down in performance. .

73, Jim K9YC
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Elecraft K3

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:30 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

>
> The... and FT100D are so "menu driven" for normal on-the-air functions that they are almost unusable.

That funny. The FT100D and the K3 are the only two HF radios I've ever owned. The K3 seems to have an impossible amount of front panel control after the FT100D.

Like you Jim, I seldom go into the menus. I have a blast using the K3 - it is an absolute joy to operate on the digital modes.

Another country heard from,

73 de Eric, KG6MZS
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don,

Thanks for the pointer. For some reason, I never caught on about using the quick memory buttons. But, now I am so used to using my KPA500 that I will probably continue to use that.

73, phil

On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:21 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Phil,
>
> The ability to use 10 of those 12 buttons is already present - look at "Quick Memories" in the manual.
> The 'escape' button is the M>V button, giving you the 2 button band change you want.
> I almost never use the band up/down buttons on my K3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> On 1/16/2013 1:45 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>>
>> About that K3 band press problem -- I have a fix for it but I wonder if Eric and Wayne would agree. I would use the 12 buttons just to the right of the display on the K3 (the 12 button 3x4 grid) as band buttons with the help of an escape key. That is, just two button pushes for any band. Just push the escape key which holds the escape function for two seconds say and then press the appropriate button identified for the band. For 160 thru 2 (2 meter option) you would need to use all 12 buttons. The work of course would probably require re-labeling the buttons in a worst case besides firmware modification. Possibilities for the escape key would maybe be the frequency enter but that would be problematic or maybe the SUB key button and then change that out to be a press/Hold style where the hold is either escape function or sub function. This may need a hardware change for the button maybe.
>>
>>
>
>

Bruce Beford-2

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

No, he actually did not "hear wrong". He heard exactly what was said.
However, what was said was factually incorrect.
73,
Bruce, N1RX

> Again, you have heard wrong.

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Nate Bargmann

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Yes.

Being able to dial the high cut down to 2.05 kHz and having the 2.1 kHz
filter switch in and not hear the QSO 2 kc down while hearing the net or
round table with just a slight loss of fidelitly adds to my enjoyment of
amateur radio.

Perfection would be if the auto-notch filter took out all carriers with
no discernable distortion. :-)

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Michael Adams

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

For me, I see three possible elements of fun:

1. Being able to work other stations, without the radio getting in the way
is "fun".
2. Being able to tweak settings, trying different things, is also "fun".
3. Having an aesthetically pleasing display, being able to make
pretty-colored meters move, has an element of "fun" for some.

The K3 excels at #1 and #2. #3 is less important to me. :)

I also have an Icom 7000. It was my first HF rig, and I still have it for
mobile/portable/backup purposes. I enjoy it too (even if the RX isn't as
good as the K3's), but its small size means you have to go digging in menus
to change certain settings...and that in turn means that the radio can get
in the way of making contacts. It's still fun (after you have climbed the
learning curve)...but the fun level is lower as compared to the K3's.

--
*Michael D. Adams* (N1EN)
Poquonock, Connecticut | [hidden email]
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Nick Kennedy

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Ian Kahn, KM4IK

I guess you should ask yourself what controls need to be accessible
right in front of you without menus.

I mainly operate CW. Here's what I can access immediately without
hitting "menu": keyer speed, sidetone pitch & level, power output, IF
shift / bandwidth / filter selection, preamp / attenuator, NR, NB,
RIT/XIT, VFO B, AGC, SPOT, RF & AF gain, ATU tune, keyer memories.

There's more, but you get the idea. I also have four macro key
functions programmed to make some quick configuration changes with a
single press.

My previous rig was an FT-1000. It had lots of knobs and essentially no
menus. I didn't think I lost anything as far as quick access to needed
functions when I upgraded to the K3.

73-

Nick, WA5BDU
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Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: Is the K3 a "fun" radio to operate ?

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Seriously? Asking the Elecraft reflector if the K3 is a fun radio to
operate is like asking drug addicted people if they like drugs.

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ

Owner - Operator

Big Signal Ranch

Staunton, Illinois

email: <mailto:[hidden email]> [hidden email]

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