Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
 
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I am having trouble with choppy cw coming off the computer
into my keying line using N1MM - anyone have any ideas? Thanks and 73, Bill N4ZI _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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Bill
The usual problem is the PC being busy with other things! My dual core AMD-64 processor seems to send reasonable CW from the N1MM program to the K3, but the safer bet is to use a K1EL Winkey. 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 ------------------ I am having trouble with choppy cw coming off the computer into my keying line using N1MM - anyone have any ideas? Thanks and 73, Bill N4ZI _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Bill Maddock-2
Need more specifics. How are you keying? Serial line direct, serial
line separate from the computer control, or parallel port? What version Logger? Computer details? Generally, I haven't had any problems using CW keying direct either through the serial or parallel ports. I have had some problems at times interrupting the keying with the ESC key, but that has been discussed elsewhere. At 7/12/2008 09:29 AM, Bill Maddock wrote: >I am having trouble with choppy cw coming off the computer >into my keying line using N1MM - anyone have any ideas? > >Thanks and 73, > >Bill N4ZI _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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In reply to this post by Bill Maddock-2
Bill:
You have a timing problem due to the fact that several computational processes in the N1MM program are simultaneously competing with your CW process for access to the serial link between your computer and your radio. The solution in to use the WinKey keyer. Check out k1el.tripod.com The WinKey operates through a USB port in the computer and bypasses the serial link being used by all the other processes. N1MM works with WinKey. I use a K2/WinKey/N1MM configuration in contests and I am very happy with it. I have no financial interest in WinKey. I am merely a happy customer. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK At 09:29 AM 7/12/2008, Bill Maddock wrote: >I am having trouble with choppy cw coming off the computer >into my keying line using N1MM - anyone have any ideas? > >Thanks and 73, > >Bill N4ZI > > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:45:34 -0400, Stephen W. Kercel wrote:
>You have a timing problem due to the fact that several computational >processes in the N1MM program are simultaneously competing with your >CW process for access to the serial link between your computer and your radio. I do a lot of contesting, mostly CW. If you are using a REASONABLE computer, not a 10 year old dog only fit for DOS, N1MM and Writelog key VERY well from a real serial port. My shack computer is a 5 year old T22 Thinkpad with 512MB and W2K Pro. When I'm contesting, I have N1MM, two or three browsers, VE7CC, Zone Alarm, DXView, DXKeeper, and Quattro Pro running. Not a sign of a glitch. Same with WriteLog, which I used for years before switching to N1MM a year ago. When I first started running N1MM, I DID have a problem with stuttering CW AND SSB playback. I traced the cause to having told N1MM to record everything. Turned off that switch (somewhere in the menus) and everything was fine. >The solution in to use the WinKey keyer. Check out k1el.tripod.com Everyone who uses it loves it, BUT it should NOT be necessary. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Ten years ago, Windows NT was quite prevalent...
> If you are using a REASONABLE computer, not a 10 year old dog only fit for > DOS, _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
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Hash: SHA1 Ditto the Winkey. Just because you've gotten away with it in the past doesn't mean you will always get away with it. You never know what combination of processes running will cause a windows interrupts glitch. Using Winkey N1MM is sending nothing but ASCII text to the keyer as opposed to having N1MM tell the OS to assert the serial line and key the rig, when windows thinks it has time to do it. It also makes up for some of the soldering you didn't get to do when building the K3. ;-) Dave G4AON wrote: | Bill | | The usual problem is the PC being busy with other things! My dual core | AMD-64 processor seems to send reasonable CW from the N1MM program to | the K3, but the safer bet is to use a K1EL Winkey. | | 73 Dave, G4AON | K3/100 #80 | ------------------ | I am having trouble with choppy cw coming off the computer | into my keying line using N1MM - anyone have any ideas? | | Thanks and 73, | | Bill N4ZI - -- R. Kevin Stover, ACØH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIeOwG11jxjloa2wsRAg19AJ0btLqb8ss36tBOYqGAyJcJJFu/bQCgxwPc rM+zUqxRcd3nJhntlWCAH4Y= =ZOdi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 080712-0, 07/12/2008 Tested on: 7/12/2008 12:38:15 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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At 7/12/2008 01:38 PM, R. Kevin Stover wrote:
>Ditto the Winkey. > >Just because you've gotten away with it in the past doesn't mean you >will always get away with it. You never know what combination of >processes running will cause a windows interrupts glitch. > >Using Winkey N1MM is sending nothing but ASCII text to the keyer as >opposed to having N1MM tell the OS to assert the serial line and key the >rig, when windows thinks it has time to do it. > >It also makes up for some of the soldering you didn't get to do when >building the K3. ;-) The other side of the story is that it is one extra piece of equipment to bring along on an expedition or have around the shack. It is one more point of failure. Take TX5C as an example, most of their MicroHam CW interfaces failed on the expedition and they were forced to use straight keys and paddles. The point is, there are multiple methods for doing CW keying. They all work if set up properly. It is up to the user to weigh the merits of the chosen method as compared to the others and based on their individual needs. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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> The other side of the story is that it is one extra piece of > equipment to bring along on an expedition or have around the > shack. It is one more point of failure. Take TX5C as an example, > most of their MicroHam CW interfaces failed on the expedition and > they were forced to use straight keys and paddles. That's complete nonsense and you need to stop making false statements! Only one unit (a DigiKeyer) failed at TX5C and it did NOT include a WinKey. The failed unit was a DXpediton loan unit and was not been returned for evaluation. Given conditions on the trip, the failure is probably due to environmental conditions (power problems, lightning, saltwater bath, etc.) rather than a circuit failure. The three microKEYER II units from the trip are in use in the home stations of three team members (they asked for cables to use them with their home stations when they returned) and the other two DigiKeyers on loan for the trip were returned in good shape. 73, ... Joe Subich, W4TV microHAM America http://www.microHAM-USA.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM [hidden email] > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed K1EP > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 1:55 PM > To: R. Kevin Stover; Dave G4AON > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Issues with cw keying line in > N1MM with K3? > > > At 7/12/2008 01:38 PM, R. Kevin Stover wrote: > >Ditto the Winkey. > > > >Just because you've gotten away with it in the past doesn't mean you > >will always get away with it. You never know what combination of > >processes running will cause a windows interrupts glitch. > > > >Using Winkey N1MM is sending nothing but ASCII text to the keyer as > >opposed to having N1MM tell the OS to assert the serial line and key > >the rig, when windows thinks it has time to do it. > > > >It also makes up for some of the soldering you didn't get to do when > >building the K3. ;-) > > The other side of the story is that it is one extra piece of > equipment to bring along on an expedition or have around the > shack. It is one more point of failure. Take TX5C as an example, > most of their MicroHam CW interfaces failed on the expedition and > they were forced to use straight keys and paddles. > > The point is, there are multiple methods for doing CW keying. They > all work if set up properly. It is up to the user to weigh the > merits of the chosen method as compared to the others and based on > their individual needs. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by ac0h
Look at the progress we have made in completing a circuit which only demands timings accurate to a millisecond. Now the requirment is:
1) And advanced computer including about a GB of Ram with a CPU operating at sub nanosecond speeds. 2) A bloated operating system 3) A USB port 4) A WINKEY board and associated drivers This is nuts. Thank you Microsoft. 73 de Brian/K3KO
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Re: Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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Agreed. Windows has always been lousy at multi-tasking. I remember people saying years ago the benefit of switching from '98 to NT was you would never see an egg-timer. But no, even today it's possible for some process to hold up everything else on the PC. But the K3 provides a more elegant solution to this problem. You can send ASCII direct to the K3 using KY commands and it sends CW for you. Unfortunately none of the main contest logging programs use it. (In fact I think my program KComm, and possibly HRD, are the only ones that do.)
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-3
At 7/12/2008 04:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> > The other side of the story is that it is one extra piece of > > equipment to bring along on an expedition or have around the > > shack. It is one more point of failure. Take TX5C as an example, > > most of their MicroHam CW interfaces failed on the expedition and > > they were forced to use straight keys and paddles. > >That's complete nonsense and you need to stop making false statements! I apologize if I inferred that the Microham units were defective or failed due to workmanship or design. The expedition lost the use of three out of the four CW interfaces they brought, as you say, most likely due to lightening or environmental conditions. I was not trying to knock Microham or Winkey or any other interface. The point I was trying to make was that when it comes to reliability, more electronics you have, the more points of failure you will have, however that failure occurs. >Only one unit (a DigiKeyer) failed at TX5C and it did NOT include >a WinKey. The failed unit was a DXpediton loan unit and was not >been returned for evaluation. Given conditions on the trip, the >failure is probably due to environmental conditions (power problems, >lightning, saltwater bath, etc.) rather than a circuit failure. > >The three microKEYER II units from the trip are in use in the home >stations of three team members (they asked for cables to use them >with their home stations when they returned) and the other two >DigiKeyers on loan for the trip were returned in good shape. > >73, > > ... Joe Subich, W4TV > microHAM America > http://www.microHAM-USA.com > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM > [hidden email] > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
> (In fact I think my program KComm, > and possibly HRD, are the only ones that do.) WinWarbler (DXLab Suite) also supports "KY" for the Kenwood and Elecraft radios that implement it. > But the K3 provides a more elegant solution to this problem. > You can send ASCII direct to the K3 using KY commands and it > sends CW for you. Unfortunately none of the main contest > logging programs use it. (In fact I think my program KComm, > and possibly HRD, are the only ones that do.) The "KY solution" has too many issues for it to be adopted by the major contest logging software. 1) once sent to the radio, data can not be edited. Thus it is not possible to implement "corrections in the buffer." 2) The Kenwood implementation requires data be sent in 24 character "chunks" vs. random length for Elecraft 3) KY is supported in only six radios (TS-480,570,870,2000 and Elecraft K2,K3) 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 5:30 PM > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: Re: [Elecraft] Issues with cw keying line in > N1MM with K3? > > > > > alsopb wrote: > > > > Look at the progress we have made in completing a circuit > which only > > demands timings accurate to a millisecond. Now the requirment is: > > > > 1) And advanced computer including about a GB of Ram with a CPU > > operating at sub nanosecond speeds. > > 2) A bloated operating system > > 3) A USB port > > 4) A WINKEY board and associated drivers > > > > This is nuts. Thank you Microsoft. > > > > 73 de Brian/K3KO > > > > Agreed. Windows has always been lousy at multi-tasking. I > remember people saying years ago the benefit of switching > from '98 to NT was you would never see an egg-timer. But no, > even today it's possible for some process to hold up > everything else on the PC. > > But the K3 provides a more elegant solution to this problem. > You can send ASCII direct to the K3 using KY commands and it > sends CW for you. Unfortunately none of the main contest > logging programs use it. (In fact I think my program KComm, > and possibly HRD, are the only ones that do.) > > ----- > Julian, G4ILO > http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack > http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham Directory > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/Issues-with-cw-keying-line-in-N1MM-with-K Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Bill Maddock-2
At 7/12/2008 04:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> > The other side of the story is that it is one extra piece of > > equipment to bring along on an expedition or have around the > > shack. It is one more point of failure. Take TX5C as an example, > > most of their MicroHam CW interfaces failed on the expedition and > > they were forced to use straight keys and paddles. > >That's complete nonsense and you need to stop making false statements! I apologize if I inferred that the Microham units were defective or failed due to workmanship or design. The expedition lost the use of three >>Sorry, my mistake again. TWO out of the four. I will just crawl back in the woodwork here. out of the four CW interfaces they brought, as you say, most likely due to lightening or environmental conditions. I was not trying to knock Microham or Winkey or any other interface. The point I was trying to make was that when it comes to reliability, more electronics you have, the more points of failure you will have, however that failure occurs. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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In reply to this post by Ed K1EP
Ed, > I apologize if I inferred that the Microham units were defective or > failed due to workmanship or design. The expedition lost the use of > three out of the four CW interfaces they brought, as you say, most > likely due to lightening or environmental conditions. STOP IT! DigiKeyer is a digital (RTTY) interface - NONE of the microHAM CW interfaces failed. All three of the microKEYER II units from TX5C are still working in the shacks of the team members who took them home. Yes, one DigiKeyer failed and the team has neither told us how or why nor returned the unit for evaluation. However, there were a lot of other, more serious, problems with that operation. By the way, VP6DX had a dozen microKEYER II interfaces - every one worked flawlessly. Several other major DXpeditions, including 3Y0X, have used microHAM interfaces exclusively without incident in very difficult environments. The one DigiKeyer failure at TX5C is the ONLY failure at any of the major DXpeditions that have used microHAM interfaces. 73, ... Joe Subich, W4TV microHAM America http://www.microHAM-USA.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM [hidden email] > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ed K1EP > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:33 PM > To: [hidden email]; 'R. Kevin Stover'; 'Dave G4AON' > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Re: Issues with cw keying line in > N1MM with K3? > > > At 7/12/2008 04:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > > > The other side of the story is that it is one extra piece of > > > equipment to bring along on an expedition or have around > the shack. > > > It is one more point of failure. Take TX5C as an > example, most of > > > their MicroHam CW interfaces failed on the expedition and > they were > > > forced to use straight keys and paddles. > > > >That's complete nonsense and you need to stop making false > statements! > > I apologize if I inferred that the Microham units were defective or > failed due to workmanship or design. The expedition lost the use of > three out of the four CW interfaces they brought, as you say, most > likely due to lightening or environmental conditions. I was not > trying to knock Microham or Winkey or any other interface. The point > I was trying to make was that when it comes to reliability, more > electronics you have, the more points of failure you will have, > however that failure occurs. > > >Only one unit (a DigiKeyer) failed at TX5C and it did NOT include a > >WinKey. The failed unit was a DXpediton loan unit and was not been > >returned for evaluation. Given conditions on the trip, the > failure is > >probably due to environmental conditions (power problems, lightning, > >saltwater bath, etc.) rather than a circuit failure. > > > >The three microKEYER II units from the trip are in use in the home > >stations of three team members (they asked for cables to use > them with > >their home stations when they returned) and the other two > DigiKeyers on > >loan for the trip were returned in good shape. > > > >73, > > > > ... Joe Subich, W4TV > > microHAM America > > http://www.microHAM-USA.com > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM > > [hidden email] > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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In reply to this post by Stephen W. Kercel
It must have been the computer - went back and reloaded N1MM
and then latest update and it works fine now after reboot! - go figure - sorry about all tha bandwidth 73 de Bill N4ZI www.n4zi.net/Home.htm --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Stephen W. Kercel <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Stephen W. Kercel <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3? > To: [hidden email], [hidden email] > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 9:45 AM > Bill: > > You have a timing problem due to the fact that several > computational > processes in the N1MM program are simultaneously competing > with your > CW process for access to the serial link between your > computer and your radio. > > The solution in to use the WinKey keyer. Check out > k1el.tripod.com > > The WinKey operates through a USB port in the computer and > bypasses > the serial link being used by all the other processes. > > N1MM works with WinKey. I use a K2/WinKey/N1MM > configuration in > contests and I am very happy with it. > > I have no financial interest in WinKey. I am merely a happy > customer. > > 73, > > Steve Kercel > AA4AK > > > > At 09:29 AM 7/12/2008, Bill Maddock wrote: > >I am having trouble with choppy cw coming off the > computer > >into my keying line using N1MM - anyone have any ideas? > > > >Thanks and 73, > > > >Bill N4ZI > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Elecraft mailing list > >Post to: [hidden email] > >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-3
I wouldn't have thought 1) was much of a problem for contest exchanges, which are short and sent pretty quickly anyway. The K2 certainly has a maximum length of 24 characters you can send at one time. I have never checked if the K3 accepts a longer string. But again I would have thought most contest exchanges, even CQs, could be accommodated within 24 characters.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: Issues with cw keying line in N1MM with K3?
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In reply to this post by S Sacco
On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:49:20 -0400, S Sacco wrote:
>Ten years ago, Windows NT was quite prevalent... And it's still on a dual processor machine I bought about ten years ago that still runs fine. So what? Jim K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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