Elecraft

JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 or K3X

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jh3sif

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 orK3X

Having JARD Technical Standard Certification Number is not mandatory for ham radio transmitters.
The transmitter without JARD Technical Standard Certification Number can get individually certified for the licensed amateur who has applied the certification to add the transmitter into his approved gears.

The most obvious issue for K3 to get JARD Technical Standard Certification Number is 60m transmission capability. K3 having 60m transmission capability will not get the number. Same is for KX3.
I got a K3/100 last December and am composing documents to apply the certification with 60m transmission capability disabled in firmware level.

73 de JH3SIF, Keith

On 2014/01/08, at 13:14, Walter Underwood <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One Japanese amateur had the opinion that firmware upgrades would require recertification. Perhaps that is true, but it also might be just as accurate as my opinion about what the FCC would do. If I were a betting man, I would not bet on my opinion about the FCC.
>
> Basically, let's not jump to the conclusion that the Japanese are trying to exclude US radios. Just like the FCC, they try to keep poor-quality transmitters off the air in their country. That is a good thing.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
>
> On Jan 7, 2014, at 6:44 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> But Elecraft doesn't have to get a new type approval from the FCC every time they change the firmware. The post I quoted (included below) indicates that the Japanese manufacturers need to get approval from JARD whenever they want to change the firmware. Having the expense of jumping thru a bureaucratic hoop would certainly act as a disincentive.
>>
>> Cheers - Bill
>>
>> On 1/7/14 at 6:32 PM, [hidden email] (Walter Underwood) wrote:
>>
>>> Radios in the US need FCC approval, too. I don't think this is all that different. --wunder
>>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This situation might contribute to the reasons we don't get continuous product improvement on our
>>> Japanese radios the way we do from Elecraft.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>>>>
>>>> On 1/7/14 at 6:53 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We know the firmware of KX-3 is currently
>>>>> revised even now.
>>>>> JARD can never accept such a moving spec.
>>>>> machine.
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bill Frantz | gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506 | to C's continuing support of | 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> --
> Walter Underwood
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 orK3X

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

We've all got our copies of 47 CFR part 97 handy, right? Every FCC
licensee is supposed to have a copy of the rules for their radio service...

As best I can tell, in the U.S. there is no requirement for type
acceptance for amateur radio transmitters, and as licensees in the
Amateur Radio Service, we are solely responsible for our transmitted
signals.

Commercially made receivers require type-acceptance under 47 CFR part
15. Manufactured or imported amplifiers must be certified, mainly
insuring that they can't easily be used on Citizen's Band.

Transmitters do not require type acceptance or certification. We as
licensed amateur radio operators are free to build or modify our
transmitters at will.

At least as far as I can tell.

Good thing, or homebrewers and kit builders would likely need to send
their radios to be certified.

I don't know how other countries handle this, but maybe Japan has it right?

73 -- Lynn

On 1/7/2014 8:14 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> Just like the FCC, they try to keep poor-quality transmitters off the air in their country. That is a good thing.

______________________________________________________________
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jh3sif

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 orK3X

>> Transmitters do not require type acceptance or certification. We as licensed amateur radio operators are free to build or modify our transmitters at will.

Here in Japan, it is different story. All transmitters must be certified by either JARD Technical Standard Certification Number or set-by-set assessment with either document or transmitter itself.
Japanese government applies the same principles for commercial stations to amateur stations with as much as flexibility within the principle. One such principle is that transmitter must be certified. So, whatever transmitter you have built or bought need to get certified before using for transmission

73 de JH3SIF, Keith

On 2014/01/08, at 13:49, "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We've all got our copies of 47 CFR part 97 handy, right? Every FCC licensee is supposed to have a copy of the rules for their radio service...
>
> As best I can tell, in the U.S. there is no requirement for type acceptance for amateur radio transmitters, and as licensees in the Amateur Radio Service, we are solely responsible for our transmitted signals.
>
> Commercially made receivers require type-acceptance under 47 CFR part 15. Manufactured or imported amplifiers must be certified, mainly insuring that they can't easily be used on Citizen's Band.
>
> Transmitters do not require type acceptance or certification. We as licensed amateur radio operators are free to build or modify our transmitters at will.
>
> At least as far as I can tell.
>
> Good thing, or homebrewers and kit builders would likely need to send their radios to be certified.
>
> I don't know how other countries handle this, but maybe Japan has it right?
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 1/7/2014 8:14 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> Just like the FCC, they try to keep poor-quality transmitters off the air in their country. That is a good thing.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 orK3X

In reply to this post by Seiji Okumura

George,

Please feel free to cite the appropriate section from Title 47.

I may have missed something.

73 -- Lynn

On 1/7/2014 9:41 PM, george fritkin wrote:

> Lynn, I think you need a little brushing-up on the FCC regs
>
> George, W6GF
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT <[hidden email]>;
> *To: * <[hidden email]>;
> *Subject: * Re: [Elecraft] JARD Technical Standard Certification
> Number for K3 orK3X
> *Sent: * Wed, Jan 8, 2014 4:49:24 AM
>
> We've all got our copies of 47 CFR part 97 handy, right? Every FCC
> licensee is supposed to have a copy of the rules for their radio
> service...
>
> As best I can tell, in the U.S. there is no requirement for type
> acceptance for amateur radio transmitters, and as licensees in the
> Amateur Radio Service, we are solely responsible for our transmitted
> signals.
>
> Commercially made receivers require type-acceptance under 47 CFR part
> 15. Manufactured or imported amplifiers must be certified, mainly
> insuring that they can't easily be used on Citizen's Band.
>
> Transmitters do not require type acceptance or certification. We as
> licensed amateur radio operators are free to build or modify our
> transmitters at will.
>
> At least as far as I can tell.
>
> Good thing, or homebrewers and kit builders would likely need to send
> their radios to be certified.
>
> I don't know how other countries handle this, but maybe Japan has it
> right?
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 1/7/2014 8:14 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> > Just like the FCC, they try to keep poor-quality transmitters off
> the air in their country. That is a good thing.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:return>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Seiji Okumura

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3orK3X

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

It is not necessary to take a new certification number at the time of
renewal of all the firmware in Japan.
The certification number did not change even at the time of firmware renewal
of FTDX-9000D I have .
When a technical change is added , and when the quality and mode of an
electric wave change by renewal of firmware, the maker needs to take new
certification.

Oku JK1KSB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Frantz" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for
K3orK3X

> But Elecraft doesn't have to get a new type approval from the FCC every
> time they change the firmware. The post I quoted (included below)
> indicates that the Japanese manufacturers need to get approval from JARD
> whenever they want to change the firmware. Having the expense of jumping
> thru a bureaucratic hoop would certainly act as a disincentive.
>
> Cheers - Bill
>
> On 1/7/14 at 6:32 PM, [hidden email] (Walter Underwood) wrote:
>
>>Radios in the US need FCC approval, too. I don't think this is all that
>>different. --wunder
>>
>>On Jan 7, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>This situation might contribute to the reasons we don't get continuous
>>>product improvement on our
>>Japanese radios the way we do from Elecraft.
>>>
>>>Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
>>>
>>>On 1/7/14 at 6:53 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>> We know the firmware of KX-3 is currently
>>>> revised even now.
>>>> JARD can never accept such a moving spec.
>>>> machine.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz | gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506 | to C's continuing support of | 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

g8kbvdave

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 or K3X

In reply to this post by Robert Nobis - N7RJN

Hi.

Interesting comment, from a country that restricts the import of non FCC
certified Ham gear themselves. :)

73.

Dave G0WBX.

PS: The CE mark (for what it's worth) covers the entire European Economic
Area, a huge potential userbase. (And getting huge'er too. But that's another
issue.)

----- Original Message -----
Quote...

And yes, I smell restraint of trade.

Unquote.
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須崎純一

Re: JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 orK3X

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

Thank you for follow-up comments.
In case of minor change, the firmware change needs no recertification.
A great improvement in transmission requires the recertification.
For example, KX-3 became allowed to transmit FM and AM after the first lot.
Equipment with ESSB mode over 3 kHz width (=Japanese limit) may not be accepted by JARD.

Jun, JI1TLL

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 20:14:32 -0800
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] JARD Technical Standard Certification Number for K3 orK3X
>
> One Japanese amateur had the opinion that firmware upgrades would require recertification. Perhaps that is true, but it also might be just as accurate as my opinion about what the FCC would do. If I were a betting man, I would not bet on my opinion about the FCC.
>
> Basically, let's not jump to the conclusion that the Japanese are trying to exclude US radios. Just like the FCC, they try to keep poor-quality transmitters off the air in their country. That is a good thing.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
>
> On Jan 7, 2014, at 6:44 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > But Elecraft doesn't have to get a new type approval from the FCC every time they change the firmware. The post I quoted (included below) indicates that the Japanese manufacturers need to get approval from JARD whenever they want to change the firmware. Having the expense of jumping thru a bureaucratic hoop would certainly act as a disincentive.
> >
> > Cheers - Bill
> >
> > On 1/7/14 at 6:32 PM, [hidden email] (Walter Underwood) wrote:
> >
> >> Radios in the US need FCC approval, too. I don't think this is all that different. --wunder
> >>
> >> On Jan 7, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Bill Frantz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> This situation might contribute to the reasons we don't get continuous product improvement on our
> >> Japanese radios the way we do from Elecraft.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers - Bill, AE6JV
> >>>
> >>> On 1/7/14 at 6:53 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We know the firmware of KX-3 is currently
> >>>> revised even now.
> >>>> JARD can never accept such a moving spec.
> >>>> machine.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Bill Frantz | gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
> > (408)356-8506 | to C's continuing support of | 16345 Englewood Ave
> > www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, CA 95032
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> --
> Walter Underwood
> [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html