Elecraft

Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

Classic

List

Threaded

7 messages Options

Marty Young

Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

Hello All:

I ordered a KX1 and it was shipped Priority Mail on
7/23 and have not received it yet. Danged post
office! In doing my preliminary research and
preparation I have a question:

Soldering is important, I think we all agree. The
selection of the correct type and size is critical to
success. Why isn't a hank of 0.31 dia Kester "44"
included with the kit?

I know, this would increase cost. But I would gladly
pay an additional $3 for a kit to avoid having to buy
a $25 roll of Kester. (and only use 1% of it) Anybody
remember Heathkit? They were the premier kit maker of
their day. Solder was included. Remember the nut
starter tool? (I may still even have one!) Not to
mention a plastic IF can tweeker. It was a nice touch
from the top maker of kits. Its why we all remember
them fondly and sorta miss 'em.

I'm not trying to be cheap. Just a practical
suggestion. I'm not saying Elecraft should supply
flush cutters, common tools, and "spoon" feed us.

Just that solder selection is pretty danged important.
And isn't it like a component? It stays on the pcb
just like all the other parts?

For what its worth. 73 Marty / W4MY

____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Don Wilhelm-3

Re: Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

Marty,

First of all, I believe .031 solder is too large a diameter for use on
Elecraft products, especially the KX1. I use .015 with great success,
and I do not recommend a larger solder than .020 for the KX1.

The reason is that with the large diameter solder, there is not great
control over the amount of solder applied - by the time the solder is
molten, there is already too much on the connection. Just enough solder
to fill the plated thru hole is adequate, although I like to see a very
small fillet of solder with the edges of the solder tapering down to
zero thickness on both the solder pad and the component lead to be
certain everything has received adequate heat during the soldering
process. See the soldering tutorial on the Elecraft website if you have
any questions about what I am describing.

Also, the 44 flux is a highly activated flux, there also seems to be a
lot of flux residue when using it for soldering. The Kester 285 mildly
activated flux is much better on untarnished components because it
leaves the board cleaner - save the highly activated solder for working
with components that have acquired a bit of corrosion and need the
higher activity.

OK, so you have some Kester 44 .031 solder that you would like to use on
your KX1 - fine, use it, but be aware of the cautions about the amount
of solder. If you find too much is applied, use solder wick to remove
some of it. OTOH, If you are buying solder for the KX1, I recommend the
Kester 285 in a .015 diameter (Multi-core is a great solder, but may be
difficult to obtain). Many areas of the KX1 are quite dense with
components and more care with soldering is required than for most of the
other Elecraft kits.

That does not answer the question of why Elecraft does not include
solder with the kits like Heathkit used to do - I can't answer that, but
I can offer some cautions based on my experiences repairing the KX1 -
some builders have trouble because of inadequate heat when soldering
(700 to 750 deg F is the best) and the application of too much solder
are often encountered problems here. I have 'fixed' several KX1s by
simply removing the excess solder and reheating the connections - that
process takes about 2 hours to complete, so you figure the cost of a
'repair' caused by sloppy soldering - good solder is cheap by comparison.

73,
Don W3FPR

Marty Young wrote:

Marty Young

Re: Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

In reply to this post by Marty Young

David:

You have to draw the line somewhere. I realize this.

My thesis was to draw it a little further north to
include solder, thats all. Strictly in the vein of
"nice touch" department.

Your soldering iron, lamp and hand tools are not "part
of" the kit. Solder is. That's where I'm coming
from. Maybe its kinda grey (pun intended). Elecraft
made its decision on how thy wanted to handle this,
and that's their perogitive.

Maybe half would use it, half would not. I would, you
wouldn't. There, that proves it!

To Elecraft marketing folks: I'd appreciate some
solder. FWIW

73 Marty / W4MY

--- David King <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Personally I had no problem buying the roll of
> Kester for my K2 project,
> and I've used a goodly chunk of it already...and
> have several other
> projects under way it's being used on. In fact, I
> was glad I bought a
> full roll...so I don't have to worry about ordering
> another right away!
>
> But then, if the K2 kit had included the $125
> soldering station I
> bought, the magnifying ring light, the board holder,
> electrostatic
> soldering mat/wrist band and the desoldering iron
> maybe my XYL wouldn't
> roll her eyes every time I talk about how much I
> saved by building the
> radio instead of buying one already built! And, she
> sometimes subtly
> brings up things like the tower now on the side of
> the house, the rental
> of a hammer drill to punch a hole into the basement
> for the antenna
> wires....etc. etc. etc.....
>
> David King
> KE7EKA
>
> Marty Young wrote:
> > Hello All:
> >
> > I ordered a KX1 and it was shipped Priority Mail
> on
> > 7/23 and have not received it yet. Danged post
> > office! In doing my preliminary research and
> > preparation I have a question:
> >
> > Soldering is important, I think we all agree. The
> > selection of the correct type and size is critical
> to
> > success. Why isn't a hank of 0.31 dia Kester "44"
> > included with the kit?
> >
> > I know, this would increase cost. But I would
> gladly
> > pay an additional $3 for a kit to avoid having to
> buy
> > a $25 roll of Kester. (and only use 1% of it)
> Anybody
> > remember Heathkit? They were the premier kit
> maker of
> > their day. Solder was included. Remember the nut
> > starter tool? (I may still even have one!) Not to
> > mention a plastic IF can tweeker. It was a nice
> touch
> > from the top maker of kits. Its why we all
> remember
> > them fondly and sorta miss 'em.
> >
> > I'm not trying to be cheap. Just a practical
> > suggestion. I'm not saying Elecraft should supply
> > flush cutters, common tools, and "spoon" feed us.
> >
> > Just that solder selection is pretty danged
> important.
> > And isn't it like a component? It stays on the
> pcb
> > just like all the other parts?
> >
> > For what its worth. 73 Marty / W4MY
> >
> >
> >
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in
> alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green
> Center.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> >
> >
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Stuart Rohre

Re: Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

In reply to this post by Marty Young

Hi Marty,
At the time I built a Heathkit DX 20 in 1957, and when several friends built
Heathkits in that era up to 1960, I don't remember any of us getting solder
with our Heathkit.

I bought Ersin Multicore solder and used that for all my kit building, and
still prefer it after some 44 years of building research electronics.

Solder is like beer and cars. Folks have their own preferences if they
have built anything at all for awhile.

No one size of solder is really adequate for all parts of kit building. For
example, you might use a small gauge on parts on a small board, but a heavy
gauge solder to make up type UHF Coax plugs.

Where do you stop in providing solder? Do you then provide the flush
cutting pliers to get folks to uniformly trim their component leads, the
needle nose pliers, the soldering iron? (Now there is another personal
preference item kind of like personal hunting weapons!)

I think Elecraft does exactly what the majority of kits have done since the
1950's. They provide the electronics and the instructions, and the builder
provides the tools and solder. Those few kits I have seen with solder had
types totally unsuited IMHO, for the job.

The type of solder one uses affects how well the finished kit looks. There
are some solders that are just adequate, and others that have superiour
wetting, and flow characteristics.

-Stuart
K5KVH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Young" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

> Hello All:
>
> I ordered a KX1 and it was shipped Priority Mail on
> 7/23 and have not received it yet. Danged post
> office! In doing my preliminary research and
> preparation I have a question:
>
> Soldering is important, I think we all agree. The
> selection of the correct type and size is critical to
> success. Why isn't a hank of 0.31 dia Kester "44"
> included with the kit?
>
> I know, this would increase cost. But I would gladly
> pay an additional $3 for a kit to avoid having to buy
> a $25 roll of Kester. (and only use 1% of it) Anybody
> remember Heathkit? They were the premier kit maker of
> their day. Solder was included. Remember the nut
> starter tool? (I may still even have one!) Not to
> mention a plastic IF can tweeker. It was a nice touch
> from the top maker of kits. Its why we all remember
> them fondly and sorta miss 'em.
>
> I'm not trying to be cheap. Just a practical
> suggestion. I'm not saying Elecraft should supply
> flush cutters, common tools, and "spoon" feed us.
>
> Just that solder selection is pretty danged important.
> And isn't it like a component? It stays on the pcb
> just like all the other parts?
>
> For what its worth. 73 Marty / W4MY
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Paul Gates, KD3JF

Re: Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3

Man, Oh, Man Don you said it right. I was so ignorant when I got back into soldering, that i was not aware of the different sizes of solder. I had and still have it... the .031 solder.The last kit I had built was a Heath Kit HW12 in the 60s. So to practice some soldering I ordered one of the in-expensive receiver kits from Ramsey.

Using the .031 solder I totally destroyed the Pc board! <g> Now, I have all kinds of rolls of .015 solder and use it for practically everything. Also have some what I think is .022. I have a soldering station and use it at 700 F.degrees.
Paul Gates, KD3JF

Having 2 cataracts <one on each eye> I was smart enough to have Jerry McCarthy build my KX1 and later he added the 30/80 module for me. Today I passed the eye test for renewing my drivers license by the skin of my teeth so to speak. The License is good for 5 years so I am sure during that time the cataracts will be big enough so I can have them removed. I have no problem seeing in the daylight and do not drive at night.

Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: Marty,

First of all, I believe .031 solder is too large a diameter for use on
Elecraft products, especially the KX1. I use .015 with great success,
and I do not recommend a larger solder than .020 for the KX1.

The reason is that with the large diameter solder, there is not great
control over the amount of solder applied - by the time the solder is
molten, there is already too much on the connection. Just enough solder
to fill the plated thru hole is adequate, although I like to see a very
small fillet of solder with the edges of the solder tapering down to
zero thickness on both the solder pad and the component lead to be
certain everything has received adequate heat during the soldering
process. See the soldering tutorial on the Elecraft website if you have
any questions about what I am describing.

Also, the 44 flux is a highly activated flux, there also seems to be a
lot of flux residue when using it for soldering. The Kester 285 mildly
activated flux is much better on untarnished components because it
leaves the board cleaner - save the highly activated solder for working
with components that have acquired a bit of corrosion and need the
higher activity.

OK, so you have some Kester 44 .031 solder that you would like to use on
your KX1 - fine, use it, but be aware of the cautions about the amount
of solder. If you find too much is applied, use solder wick to remove
some of it. OTOH, If you are buying solder for the KX1, I recommend the
Kester 285 in a .015 diameter (Multi-core is a great solder, but may be
difficult to obtain). Many areas of the KX1 are quite dense with
components and more care with soldering is required than for most of the
other Elecraft kits.

That does not answer the question of why Elecraft does not include
solder with the kits like Heathkit used to do - I can't answer that, but
I can offer some cautions based on my experiences repairing the KX1 -
some builders have trouble because of inadequate heat when soldering
(700 to 750 deg F is the best) and the application of too much solder
are often encountered problems here. I have 'fixed' several KX1s by
simply removing the excess solder and reheating the connections - that
process takes about 2 hours to complete, so you figure the cost of a
'repair' caused by sloppy soldering - good solder is cheap by comparison.

73,
Don W3FPR

Marty Young wrote:

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

KK7P

Re: Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

My experience is different, which is just more evidence to support using
the solder you prefer.

I routinely build surface mount boards with lots of fine pitch parts
(like K3 prototype boards :-) using either 0.031" or 0.025" diameter
solder. I never use anything finer.

YMMV

73,

Lyle KK7P

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

k6dgw

Re: Just ordered a KX1, and have a question

Lyle Johnson wrote:
> My experience is different, which is just more evidence to support using
> the solder you prefer.
>
> I routinely build surface mount boards with lots of fine pitch parts
> (like K3 prototype boards :-) using either 0.031" or 0.025" diameter
> solder. I never use anything finer.

Lyle got it right. My solder, K2, KX1, WM1, is Alpha Solder, 63/37
0.015 ... very fine, very controllable. As he said, YMMV. Bottom line
is what works for you. It's an eye-hand-mechanical operation, use what
works, avoid the ones they tell you to avoid.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7
- www.cqp.org
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com