K-Line system integration questions

[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Hello All:

I now have the "complete" K-Line and Im wondering how others
here have hooked up their system.  Although I dont mind
researching and doing the integration myself, so as not to
reinvent the wheel and save time, how have others on this
reflector dealt with these issues?

Here is what I have:

- K3
- P3
- KPA500
- microHAM microKEYER 2
- N1MM Logger/Logger 32
- 2x1 RS232 manual switch

I use a microHAM microKEYER2 for rig control and DVK.  I
have a manual RS232 switch that either delegates the MK2's
Serial output *OR* a direct feed from my computer's COM port
to the Elecraft system's input, currently the P3's serial
port.  When updating rig and panadaptor software, I always
use the direct feed from the computer serial port, and NOT
through the microKEYER.

My question now becomes:  Where do I insert the KPA500 in
this chain of serial devices, or do I need to at all?  The
KPA500 manual specifically states that you cannot "Daisy
Chain" through the amplifier's serial ports.  I have always
been successful daisy chaining through the P3, so if I have
to chain them together for control, who is "first" in line
(nearest to the computer)?  Or do I now need a SEPARATE
serial port for the KPA500?

Also, I use N1MM Logger and Logger32.  These software
packages read and control the rig via the microKEYER 2's CAT
interface via USB and microHAM uRouter.  The cable for the
microKEYER2 has a plug that mates to the AUX port on the K3.
 This port on the K3 will now need to go to the KPA500 via
the KPAK3AUX cable. I use a MFJ 998 autotuner, therefore, I
will have to put the interruptor in line with this cable,
and will have to use the RCA PA Key cable as well, through
the MFJ998 and then to the KPA500 for amp PTT control during
tuning or High SWR events.  Do I now need a "Y" cable at the
K3's AUX port as well to handle the comms to the amplifier
and the microKEYER Aux port needs?  Can I assume that this Y
cable has to be a "straight thru" DB-15 cable with the pins
paralelled to the two outputs, or is there yet another
special cable that is needed to make all of this work
together?

Anybody have a similar configuration out there that works
well that can get me started down this integration process?

Thanks in advance!

Lu Romero - W4LT
K3/KRX3/P3/KPA500 and K1
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[Rick Tavan N6XI]

Nice setup, Lu.

You need a separate serial port from your computer to the KPA500. This lets
KPA500 Utility talk to the amplifier to load new firmware revisions and
display operating parameters on screen. And more. It's optional until you
need to load a new rev, but I recommend dedicating a port to the purpose.
It can be implemented with a USB-to-Serial adapter, either from Elecraft or
Brand X. It has no integration relationship with the K3, P3, N1MM, RS232
switch and microKeyer. You do not and can not chain it with K3/P3.

I'm not sure why you're using the RS232 switch. I find it more convenient
to dedicate additional COM ports to specific uses even if they aren't all
in use at the same time. Maybe it's a requirement of the microKeyer, with
which I'm not familiar.

I don't know what your microKeyer gets from the K3 ACC connector but
assuming it's important then, yes, you will need an all-15 pin Y splitter
on the K3 ACC connector. Be careful selecting this part because many parts
designed for computer displays are not all-15 pin straight through. One
branch of the splitter goes to the KPA500 with band data and more. Yes, use
the interrupter so the amp keying goes from K3 to KPA500 through RCA cables
via your auto-tuner. The other branch of the Y will feed whatever it is
that the microKeyer wants.

Have fun!

/Rick N6XI

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Lu Romero <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello All:
>
> I now have the "complete" K-Line and Im wondering how others
> here have hooked up their system.  Although I dont mind
> researching and doing the integration myself, so as not to
> reinvent the wheel and save time, how have others on this
> reflector dealt with these issues?
>
> Here is what I have:
>
> - K3
> - P3
> - KPA500
> - microHAM microKEYER 2
> - N1MM Logger/Logger 32
> - 2x1 RS232 manual switch
>
> I use a microHAM microKEYER2 for rig control and DVK.  I
> have a manual RS232 switch that either delegates the MK2's
> Serial output *OR* a direct feed from my computer's COM port
> to the Elecraft system's input, currently the P3's serial
> port.  When updating rig and panadaptor software, I always
> use the direct feed from the computer serial port, and NOT
> through the microKEYER.
>
> My question now becomes:  Where do I insert the KPA500 in
> this chain of serial devices, or do I need to at all?  The
> KPA500 manual specifically states that you cannot "Daisy
> Chain" through the amplifier's serial ports.  I have always
> been successful daisy chaining through the P3, so if I have
> to chain them together for control, who is "first" in line
> (nearest to the computer)?  Or do I now need a SEPARATE
> serial port for the KPA500?
>
> Also, I use N1MM Logger and Logger32.  These software
> packages read and control the rig via the microKEYER 2's CAT
> interface via USB and microHAM uRouter.  The cable for the
> microKEYER2 has a plug that mates to the AUX port on the K3.
>  This port on the K3 will now need to go to the KPA500 via
> the KPAK3AUX cable. I use a MFJ 998 autotuner, therefore, I
> will have to put the interruptor in line with this cable,
> and will have to use the RCA PA Key cable as well, through
> the MFJ998 and then to the KPA500 for amp PTT control during
> tuning or High SWR events.  Do I now need a "Y" cable at the
> K3's AUX port as well to handle the comms to the amplifier
> and the microKEYER Aux port needs?  Can I assume that this Y
> cable has to be a "straight thru" DB-15 cable with the pins
> paralelled to the two outputs, or is there yet another
> special cable that is needed to make all of this work
> together?
>
> Anybody have a similar configuration out there that works
> well that can get me started down this integration process?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Lu Romero - W4LT
> K3/KRX3/P3/KPA500 and K1
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
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[Dick Dievendorff]

Hi, Lu!  Nice station!

Your RS-232 switch is just what the doctor ordered for K3 and P3 firmware
updates.

The KPA500 serial port is not daisy chained with the K3 and P3.  The KPA500
uses a separate RS-232 port to the PC, and its "other" 9-pin back panel
connector is intended for Kenwood transceivers.

I have been very happy with a Gearmo 4-port USB to serial adapter that uses
the FTDI chip set:

http://www.amazon.com/FT4232HL-Professional-Retention-Certified-Microsoft/dp
/B004ETDC8K

The four ports go to a P3 (daisy chained to a K3), a KPA500, a KAT500
(adding a KXSER cable for DB-9 to 3.5mm TRS plug) and another with KXSER for
KX3 or XG3 or W2.

This enables me to use my logging program (N1MM) and the KPA and KAT500
Utilities concurrently, and I don't have to fiddle with cables or change COM
port numbers on programs.

Your assumptions on the Y cable are correct.

My configuration is slightly different in that I don't use a microKeyer
right now (mine worked great, no complaints), but in a temporary station I
found that I could key the radio acceptably with the N1MM CW keying through
the same serial port it uses for CAT control (through the Gearmo USB to
Serial adapter) and therefore don't need the Y on the K3.

73 de Dick, K6KR





-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lu Romero
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 3:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K-Line system integration questions

Hello All:

I now have the "complete" K-Line and Im wondering how others here have
hooked up their system.  Although I dont mind researching and doing the
integration myself, so as not to reinvent the wheel and save time, how have
others on this reflector dealt with these issues?

Here is what I have:

- K3
- P3
- KPA500
- microHAM microKEYER 2
- N1MM Logger/Logger 32
- 2x1 RS232 manual switch

I use a microHAM microKEYER2 for rig control and DVK.  I have a manual RS232
switch that either delegates the MK2's Serial output *OR* a direct feed from
my computer's COM port to the Elecraft system's input, currently the P3's
serial port.  When updating rig and panadaptor software, I always use the
direct feed from the computer serial port, and NOT through the microKEYER.

My question now becomes:  Where do I insert the KPA500 in this chain of
serial devices, or do I need to at all?  The
KPA500 manual specifically states that you cannot "Daisy Chain" through the
amplifier's serial ports.  I have always been successful daisy chaining
through the P3, so if I have to chain them together for control, who is
"first" in line (nearest to the computer)?  Or do I now need a SEPARATE
serial port for the KPA500?

Also, I use N1MM Logger and Logger32.  These software packages read and
control the rig via the microKEYER 2's CAT interface via USB and microHAM
uRouter.  The cable for the
microKEYER2 has a plug that mates to the AUX port on the K3.
 This port on the K3 will now need to go to the KPA500 via the KPAK3AUX
cable. I use a MFJ 998 autotuner, therefore, I will have to put the
interruptor in line with this cable, and will have to use the RCA PA Key
cable as well, through the MFJ998 and then to the KPA500 for amp PTT control
during tuning or High SWR events.  Do I now need a "Y" cable at the K3's AUX
port as well to handle the comms to the amplifier and the microKEYER Aux
port needs?  Can I assume that this Y cable has to be a "straight thru"
DB-15 cable with the pins paralelled to the two outputs, or is there yet
another special cable that is needed to make all of this work together?

Anybody have a similar configuration out there that works well that can get
me started down this integration process?

Thanks in advance!

Lu Romero - W4LT
K3/KRX3/P3/KPA500 and K1
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[Ed Muns, W0YK]

Dick K6KR has covered the issues well.  To expand Dick's advice on the
RS-232 switch, here is some more detail.

microHAM products that provide K3 Serial CAT control via their USB
connection to your PC cannot be used with the K3 Utility for firmware
upgrades.  You will need to use a direct Serial connection to your PC with
the K3 Utility.  That means disconnecting the microHAM Serial connection
from the K3 and then connecting a Serial cable to your PC.  (The latter can
be a Serial COM port on your PC or via a USB-Serial adapter such as Dick
describes below).  Therefore a simple manual switch is handy so you can
switch between CAT control with the microHAM box and K3 Utility usage via
the direct Serial connection.  Connect the common DB9 port of the switch to
the K3 Serial connector and then each of the switched DB9s to the microHAM
K3 Serial DB9 and the direct Serial DB9 cable respectively.  This assumes
that the "2x1 RS232 manual switch" is what we think it is ... a SPDT DB9
switch.

Ed W0YK

 

Dick K6KR wrote:

> Your RS-232 switch is just what the doctor ordered for K3 and
> P3 firmware updates.
>
> The KPA500 serial port is not daisy chained with the K3 and
> P3.  The KPA500 uses a separate RS-232 port to the PC, and
> its "other" 9-pin back panel connector is intended for
> Kenwood transceivers.
>
> I have been very happy with a Gearmo 4-port USB to serial
> adapter that uses the FTDI chip set:
>
> http://www.amazon.com/FT4232HL-Professional-Retention-Certifie
> d-Microsoft/dp
> /B004ETDC8K
>
> The four ports go to a P3 (daisy chained to a K3), a KPA500,
> a KAT500 (adding a KXSER cable for DB-9 to 3.5mm TRS plug)
> and another with KXSER for
> KX3 or XG3 or W2.
>
> This enables me to use my logging program (N1MM) and the KPA
> and KAT500 Utilities concurrently, and I don't have to fiddle
> with cables or change COM port numbers on programs.
>
> Your assumptions on the Y cable are correct.
>
> My configuration is slightly different in that I don't use a
> microKeyer right now (mine worked great, no complaints), but
> in a temporary station I found that I could key the radio
> acceptably with the N1MM CW keying through the same serial
> port it uses for CAT control (through the Gearmo USB to
> Serial adapter) and therefore don't need the Y on the K3.

Lu W4LT wrote:

> I now have the "complete" K-Line and Im wondering how others
> here have hooked up their system.  Although I dont mind
> researching and doing the integration myself, so as not to
> reinvent the wheel and save time, how have others on this
> reflector dealt with these issues?
>
> Here is what I have:
>
> - K3
> - P3
> - KPA500
> - microHAM microKEYER 2
> - N1MM Logger/Logger 32
> - 2x1 RS232 manual switch
>
> I use a microHAM microKEYER2 for rig control and DVK.  I have
> a manual RS232 switch that either delegates the MK2's Serial
> output *OR* a direct feed from my computer's COM port to the
> Elecraft system's input, currently the P3's serial port.  
> When updating rig and panadaptor software, I always use the
> direct feed from the computer serial port, and NOT through
> the microKEYER.
>
> My question now becomes:  Where do I insert the KPA500 in
> this chain of serial devices, or do I need to at all?  The
> KPA500 manual specifically states that you cannot "Daisy
> Chain" through the amplifier's serial ports.  I have always
> been successful daisy chaining through the P3, so if I have
> to chain them together for control, who is "first" in line
> (nearest to the computer)?  Or do I now need a SEPARATE
> serial port for the KPA500?
>
> Also, I use N1MM Logger and Logger32.  These software
> packages read and control the rig via the microKEYER 2's CAT
> interface via USB and microHAM uRouter.  The cable for the
> microKEYER2 has a plug that mates to the AUX port on the K3.
>  This port on the K3 will now need to go to the KPA500 via
> the KPAK3AUX cable. I use a MFJ 998 autotuner, therefore, I
> will have to put the interruptor in line with this cable, and
> will have to use the RCA PA Key cable as well, through the
> MFJ998 and then to the KPA500 for amp PTT control during
> tuning or High SWR events.  Do I now need a "Y" cable at the
> K3's AUX port as well to handle the comms to the amplifier
> and the microKEYER Aux port needs?  Can I assume that this Y
> cable has to be a "straight thru"
> DB-15 cable with the pins paralelled to the two outputs, or
> is there yet another special cable that is needed to make all
> of this work together?
>
> Anybody have a similar configuration out there that works
> well that can get me started down this integration process?

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Actually, most of the RS-232 manual switches that I have disassembled
have 25 or more poles on the rotary switch, and they have plenty of
positions too, but only two positions are available until you break off
additional tabs on the switch.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/26/2012 9:42 AM, Ed Muns wrote:

> Dick K6KR has covered the issues well.  To expand Dick's advice on the
> RS-232 switch, here is some more detail.
>
> microHAM products that provide K3 Serial CAT control via their USB
> connection to your PC cannot be used with the K3 Utility for firmware
> upgrades.  You will need to use a direct Serial connection to your PC with
> the K3 Utility.  That means disconnecting the microHAM Serial connection
> from the K3 and then connecting a Serial cable to your PC.  (The latter can
> be a Serial COM port on your PC or via a USB-Serial adapter such as Dick
> describes below).  Therefore a simple manual switch is handy so you can
> switch between CAT control with the microHAM box and K3 Utility usage via
> the direct Serial connection.  Connect the common DB9 port of the switch to
> the K3 Serial connector and then each of the switched DB9s to the microHAM
> K3 Serial DB9 and the direct Serial DB9 cable respectively.  This assumes
> that the "2x1 RS232 manual switch" is what we think it is ... a SPDT DB9
> switch.
>
> Ed W0YK
>
>  
>

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[KD4NUE]

FWIW, you can find InsideOut Edgeport interfaces on eBay that are usually
quite reasonable.

I have them in 2 port, 4 port and 8 port configurations.

The use a single USB connector and provide what the computer sees as stable
serial ports that stay where you put them.

Each port can be configured, port number renamed, etc via the Control panel
- System...

The USB ports have a tendency to wander around if you use them in real world
situations.  

With all the problems associated by a difference in ground potential,
mechanical switchboxes increase the chances for ground loop.

I am coming into this thread late, so apologies if this has already been
covered.

David
KD4NUE

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[Lu Romero - W4LT]

Thanks all for all the advice:

I ordered a Y connector from Winford Engineering.  Straight
through, so no worries.  Also some straight through cables
from the same source. I have always had good results from
these folks in the past.  The microKEYER will plug into one
socket, the other into the KPAK3AUX cable for amplifier
control.  Hope the microKEYER wont mind (Im sure if it did,
I would have heard from W4TV by now...)  

Good to know I dont need any serial control of the amp at
all.  That was not well explained in the manual, or I was
not looking closely enough (Anybody know what the AUX button
labled #13 on the KPA500 front panel does?  hi hi).

I have many spare USB to Serial dongles from a valued source
that work perfectly. One of the dongles will be put into
use, attaching it directly to the amp, and I will continue
my daisy chain rig control via the P3 socket downstream of
my mechanical serial switch. I will continue to use one USB
port for the microKEYER and the other from a direct "real"
serial port on my computer.

And I have many spare USB ports available on my Ham
computer, so that is an easy addition. The dongles I have,
which I use at work, stay put on their assigned ports as
well, and uRouter creates its own virtual ones for the
microHAM stuff, so all is good there.  

I think I am good to go... Will find out in a day or two
once I get the whole station reconfigured and back in
operation.  If anyone needs a very good used Ameritron
ALS600, I have one that needs a new home!

Thanks again for the help, fellow Elecrafters!

Lu Romero - W4LT
K3/P3/KRX3/KPA500/K1

--------=======--------=========---------=======------

Message: 32
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:50:11 -0500
From: "David Little" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K-Line system integration questions
Message-ID: <FA8842F8D1E449BDA2E059F3A8075655@davidhp>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"


FWIW, you can find InsideOut Edgeport interfaces on eBay
that are usually
quite reasonable.

I have them in 2 port, 4 port and 8 port configurations.

The use a single USB connector and provide what the computer
sees as stable
serial ports that stay where you put them.

Each port can be configured, port number renamed, etc via
the Control panel
- System...

The USB ports have a tendency to wander around if you use
them in real world
situations.  

With all the problems associated by a difference in ground
potential,
mechanical switchboxes increase the chances for ground loop.

I am coming into this thread late, so apologies if this has
already been
covered.

David
KD4NUE




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