K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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I am in the testing phase of my KPA-100 construction using an Astron 20A
power supply. When I attempt to adjust the power of the K2 in Tune mode it will reset at levels between 40-90W depending on the band selected. I tried adjusting the power using a battery and I was successful to 100W without having a reset. Therefore the problem points to the Astron. Tech Support mentioned to me that this is a problem that has happened a number of times. I have tried ferrite beads on the DC lines, a capacitor across the '+' & '-' leads and verifying that the '-' lead is connected to the case (a solution that I found on the web). Nothing has helped. I haven't found anything on the discussion list addressing this issue. Has anyone had this problem ? TNX & 73, Jim _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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Jim,
The first thing to check in a situation like yours is the DC path from the power supply and inside the supply itself. The entire DC path must have a very very low series resistance - if it does not, the voltage will sag drastically under load and the K2 will shut down due to the instantaneous low voltage that results. This may or may not be your particular problem, but the first order of business is to be certain that all the 'stuff' (including connection points inside the supply) have tight or well soldered connections and are truly capable of handling 20 amps of current when the current demand changes from milliamps to something like 17 amps - a slightly loose bolted connection could cause the conditions that you are reporting. After determining that the DC current path is intact and capable of handling the proper current, then you can look to potential RFI considerations. 73, Don W3FPR > -----Original Message----- > > I am in the testing phase of my KPA-100 construction using an Astron 20A > power supply. When I attempt to adjust the power of the K2 in > Tune mode it > will reset at levels between 40-90W depending on the band > selected. I tried > adjusting the power using a battery and I was successful to 100W without > having a reset. Therefore the problem points to the Astron. Tech Support > mentioned to me that this is a problem that has happened a number > of times. > > I have tried ferrite beads on the DC lines, a capacitor across > the '+' & '-' > leads and verifying that the '-' lead is connected to the case (a > solution > that I found on the web). Nothing has helped. > > I haven't found anything on the discussion list addressing this > issue. Has > anyone had this problem ? > > TNX & 73, Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/193 - Release Date: 12/6/2005 > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wa4ywm
Hi
I thought I may have had a RFI problem with my K2/100 that I recently bought but it wasn’t that. When I hit the tune button sometimes the K2 would start tuning and then half way through do a reset. In the end I measured the current into the 100 watt stage and found that as the tuner tried to find a match the current drawn would Go up and down as you would expect as the load changes. But I found that my 20 amp PSU could not cope with some of the very short current drain that it was asked for and dropped its voltage which caused the k2 to reset half way through its tune cycle . I was going to look for a better PSU , till I found how much a new one was! So in the end I have a 17AmHr Gell pack here that I float across the PSU’s output this will help the PSU cope with the odd high current pulse and also act as a standby Supply in the event of a mains failure. I guess others have found the same problem? 73 Paul M0BMN -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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I have the Ten-Tec Orion supply which is an Astron 20A and also experienced
that symptom as recently as yesterday. When I run on a car battery I do not notice it. After the reset I lost my sidetone. Luckily I asked Don W3FPR for advice before I tore the radio apart. He pointed me to the sidetone source menu and I got it working again. My problem ONLY occurrs on 40M. Is yours band specific Paul? My DC wire between the Astron and the K2 is 18 inches which is how far apart I keep the units. It also has a large ferrite filter around it. Tom K2TA Greenwood Lake, NY K2/100 #1117 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Webb" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:31 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A Hi I thought I may have had a RFI problem with my K2/100 that I recently bought but it wasn’t that. When I hit the tune button sometimes the K2 would start tuning and then half way through do a reset. In the end I measured the current into the 100 watt stage and found that as the tuner tried to find a match the current drawn would Go up and down as you would expect as the load changes. But I found that my 20 amp PSU could not cope with some of the very short current drain that it was asked for and dropped its voltage which caused the k2 to reset half way through its tune cycle . I was going to look for a better PSU , till I found how much a new one was! So in the end I have a 17AmHr Gell pack here that I float across the PSU’s output this will help the PSU cope with the odd high current pulse and also act as a standby Supply in the event of a mains failure. I guess others have found the same problem? 73 Paul M0BMN -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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HI Tom
It seems to happen more when the ATU needs to work harder to find a match, I have a 40m Windom up here and I can load it on all bands with the K2, but it has to work hard to get me a match on 160m/80m and this is normally when it happens, its not a problem since I put a float battery across the PSU's output. I have had it mess up some of the settings too on my K2 when it happens, mostly on the DSP settings like turning the RTC menu option to OFF All the best Paul M0BMN -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Althoff Sent: 08 December 2005 10:34 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A I have the Ten-Tec Orion supply which is an Astron 20A and also experienced that symptom as recently as yesterday. When I run on a car battery I do not notice it. After the reset I lost my sidetone. Luckily I asked Don W3FPR for advice before I tore the radio apart. He pointed me to the sidetone source menu and I got it working again. My problem ONLY occurrs on 40M. Is yours band specific Paul? My DC wire between the Astron and the K2 is 18 inches which is how far apart I keep the units. It also has a large ferrite filter around it. Tom K2TA Greenwood Lake, NY K2/100 #1117 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Webb" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:31 AM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A Hi I thought I may have had a RFI problem with my K2/100 that I recently bought but it wasn’t that. When I hit the tune button sometimes the K2 would start tuning and then half way through do a reset. In the end I measured the current into the 100 watt stage and found that as the tuner tried to find a match the current drawn would Go up and down as you would expect as the load changes. But I found that my 20 amp PSU could not cope with some of the very short current drain that it was asked for and dropped its voltage which caused the k2 to reset half way through its tune cycle . I was going to look for a better PSU , till I found how much a new one was! So in the end I have a 17AmHr Gell pack here that I float across the PSU’s output this will help the PSU cope with the odd high current pulse and also act as a standby Supply in the event of a mains failure. I guess others have found the same problem? 73 Paul M0BMN -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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Used to have a Windom up here. The RF from it got into everything:-
K2 PSU, Computer, UPS, Telephone and Alarm system. Changed to a balanced (Doublet) antenna, end of problems. 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:04:13 -0000, Paul Webb wrote: > HI Tom > > It seems to happen more when the ATU needs to work harder to find a match, > I have a 40m Windom up here and I can load it on all bands with the K2, but > it has to work hard to get me a match on 160m/80m and this is normally when > it happens, its not a problem since I put a float battery across the PSU's > output. > I have had it mess up some of the settings too on my K2 when it happens, > mostly on the DSP settings like turning the RTC menu option to OFF > All the best > Paul > M0BMN > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Althoff > Sent: 08 December 2005 10:34 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A > > I have the Ten-Tec Orion supply which is an Astron 20A and also experienced > that symptom as recently as yesterday. When I run on a car battery I do not > notice it. > > After the reset I lost my sidetone. Luckily I asked Don W3FPR for advice > before I tore the radio apart. He pointed me to the sidetone source menu > and I got it working again. > > My problem ONLY occurrs on 40M. Is yours band specific Paul? > > My DC wire between the Astron and the K2 is 18 inches which is how far apart > I keep the units. It also has a large ferrite filter around it. > > Tom K2TA > Greenwood Lake, NY > K2/100 #1117 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Webb" <[hidden email]> > To: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:31 AM > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A > > > Hi > > I thought I may have had a RFI problem with my K2/100 that I recently bought > but it wasn’t that. > > When I hit the tune button sometimes the K2 would start tuning and then half > way through do a reset. > > In the end I measured the current into the 100 watt stage and found that > as the tuner tried to find a match the current drawn would > > Go up and down as you would expect as the load changes. > > But I found that my 20 amp PSU could not cope with some of the very short > current drain that it was asked for and dropped its voltage which caused the > k2 to reset half way through its tune cycle . > > I was going to look for a better PSU , till I found how much a new one was! > > So in the end I have a 17AmHr Gell pack here that I float across the PSU’s > output this will help the PSU cope with the odd high current pulse and also > act as a standby Supply in the event of a mains failure. > > I guess others have found the same problem? > > 73 > > Paul > > M0BMN > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 05/12/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wa4ywm
Off center feeding of a dipole antenna greatly enhances feed line radiation
which most often causes a new set of problems. This is why you usually see the Windom style type antennas having to use some form of a line isolator in the feed line. It's much simpler to stay with center feeding to avoid all these issues... Don / WA9TGT WA9TGT / Donnie Garrett / Muncie, IN ARCI #6447, ARS #1717, AmQRP, ECI-QRP #001 (Indiana) Drake 2B, R4A, R4B, K2 #3186, K1 #1806 LDG Z-11 Auto Tuner, 102' CF Zepp using glass doobies! www.wa9tgt.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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In reply to this post by m0bmn
If the K2/100 is properly fused according to the instructions, it should not
draw more than 20 amps without opening the fuse! Perhaps the crowbar voltage on the supply is set too low? Why not tune up at reduced power? Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Tom Althoff
Paul Webb wrote,
> I thought I may have had a RFI problem with my K2/100 that I recently bought > but it wasn’t that. <snip> > But I found that my 20 amp PSU could not cope with some of the very short > current drain that it was asked for and dropped its voltage which caused the > k2 to reset half way through its tune cycle. I think this is likely correct. I used Astrons in an environment loaded with RF (1500 watts into an inverted L a few feet away on 80/160) and never had any problem. However, 20 amps is marginal for a K2/100 and the Astrons defnitely do cut out when you exceed their current ratings. Everything else electrical in my house suffered from the RF, including some terminating resistors in my alarm system that appeared to be *vaporized!*. But the Astrons did not hiccup. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2
Just a note to all about Astron Power supplies in general. The Astron
linear power supplies that I have owned were very nice, but please realize that the "20" in in their name, I believe, is for a tempory peak amount of amps. The "20" series of supplies are rated at 16 amps continuous. That’s why the standard Astron used for 100 Watt (20 amp) rigs is usually the "35" series, which are rated at 25 amps continous. See: http://www.astroncorp.com/linear.shtml Steve Pituch, W2MY -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/2005 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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Steve, W2MY wrote:
Just a note to all about Astron Power supplies in general. The Astron linear power supplies that I have owned were very nice, but please realize that the "20" in in their name, I believe, is for a tempory peak amount of amps... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- The Astron 20 is rated at 20 amps ICS. ICS (used to be called ICAS) simply means Intermittent Commercial Service. (The older ICAS designation included the word "Amateur".) Unless one plans to put a brick on the key and run full carrier 24/7 without ever switching to receive, the ICS rating is the important number. K2/100's will vary in their current demand somewhat, but the current demands of mine should be typical. At 100 watts output it requires a low of 15.5 amps on 20 meters to a high of 18.5 amps on 15 meters across all the bands from 160 through 10 (including 60 meters). Again, those are intermittent peaks, of course, when keying CW or on SSB voice peaks. The average drain is much, much lower. That's well within the normal rating of any supply rated at 20 amps ICS. When adjusting an antenna tuner, always tune up at reduced power. Ideally, use only the minimum power needed by the SWR bridge. When faced with severe SWR conditions such as exist while adjusting the tuner, almost any rig will draw excessive current. Ron AC7AC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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In reply to this post by wa4ywm
Is the supply linear or a switcher?
So far, no one has asked! On Dec 7, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Elmore's wrote: > I am in the testing phase of my KPA-100 construction using an > Astron 20A power supply. When I attempt to adjust the power of the > K2 in Tune mode it will reset at levels between 40-90W depending on > the band selected. I tried adjusting the power using a battery and > I was successful to 100W without having a reset. Therefore the > problem points to the Astron. Tech Support mentioned to me that > this is a problem that has happened a number of times. > > I have tried ferrite beads on the DC lines, a capacitor across the > '+' & '-' leads and verifying that the '-' lead is connected to the > case (a solution that I found on the web). Nothing has helped. > > I haven't found anything on the discussion list addressing this > issue. Has anyone had this problem ? > > TNX & 73, Jim > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -Jack Brindle, W6FB ======================================================================= _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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In reply to this post by m0bmn
>So in the end I have a 17AmHr Gell pack here that I float across the PSU’s >output this will help the PSU cope with the odd high current pulse and also >act as a standby Supply in the event of a mains failure. > > > > That's what I do, except that the battery is bigger (80 AH or so). My theory is that the battery will handle the need for intermittent current spikes better than the power supply alone, plus if the power supply does something nasty, like lose regulation and decide to put out a high voltage or some spikes that might zap the gear, the battery should absorb that and hopefully blow the power supply fuse. This also provides a nice emergency power source - I ran my K2/100 from home during field day weekend just from the battery, power supply unplugged, and had enough battery voltage left to continue for a while if I'd wanted to after two days of CW operation (much longer than that and it would be time to crank up the generator, but two days isn't bad). /Paul W3PH -- Paul Heller [hidden email] _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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In reply to this post by wa4ywm
Ron AC7AC posted:
"When adjusting an antenna tuner, always tune up at reduced power. Ideally, use only the minimum power needed by the SWR bridge. When faced with severe SWR conditions such as exist while adjusting the tuner, almost any rig will draw excessive current." That is my experience exactly. My K2/100 with its ATU will load up just about anything, but it will cause the MFJ 4245MV Switching Supply (rated at about 45A) to reset itself if the ATU cannot find a good match within a few seconds. I have the DC line to the K2 fused and have watched the P.S. current meter during one of these 'events', but the fuse doesn't blow, nor does the meter move above 20A. The current must be spiking for a spit second to shut the power supply down. When first tuning up on a different band, I'll usually drop the requested power out to about 15 watts until the match is achieved. Todd N9NE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K2/100 RFI problem using Astron 20A
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In reply to this post by wa4ywm
This summer I experienced an RFI problem with my
Astron RS-7A which was completely cured by connecting the negative output terminal to the ground stud on the back of the supply. Never had to do that before in perhaps 15 years of owning the power supply - didn't even know the supply was floating with respect to ground ! 73, Steve VE3SMA __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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