K2 Firmware change request

[Torsten Clay-2]

I used my pair of K2/100's in last weekend's NAQP CW. Band conditions were
pretty good for August, and I ended up with 789 qso's. I use the pair
SO2R, meaning I am listening on one band while transmitting simultaneously
on another band.  In the NAQP mults count on every band (including 160),
and you change bands a lot.

I was reminded again of a K2 firmware "bug" that has been very annoying to
me: after changing bands, the K2 transmit power is reset to zero. I takes
several dits for the power to come up to 100%. That means if I change
bands, the first station I call gets something like "AOGW" instead of
N4OGW! If I forgot to hit the tune button or send a string of random dits,
the station I was calling frequently came back with "?" I'd rather not
have to QRM other stations "tuning up" every time I change bands.

Is it possible to make the K2 start out at 100% TX power? Is this supposed
to protect the finals?

In the NA Sprint contest (coming up in September!) this is a really big
deal. There, you must QSY after calling CQ, and if the station I am
calling misses my call, I may never hear him again!

Tor
AOGW

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[hank k8dd-2]

And this is very important even for SO1R stations who move stations or get
moved
to other bands!

And thanks for the Q's in NAQP, Tor

73    Hank    aka Duck

At 8/9/2004 11:29 AM, Torsten Clay wrote:

>I used my pair of K2/100's in last weekend's NAQP CW. Band conditions were
>pretty good for August, and I ended up with 789 qso's. I use the pair
>SO2R, meaning I am listening on one band while transmitting simultaneously
>on another band.  In the NAQP mults count on every band (including 160),
>and you change bands a lot.
>
>I was reminded again of a K2 firmware "bug" that has been very annoying to
>me: after changing bands, the K2 transmit power is reset to zero. I takes
>several dits for the power to come up to 100%. That means if I change
>bands, the first station I call gets something like "AOGW" instead of
>N4OGW! If I forgot to hit the tune button or send a string of random dits,
>the station I was calling frequently came back with "?" I'd rather not
>have to QRM other stations "tuning up" every time I change bands.
>
>Is it possible to make the K2 start out at 100% TX power? Is this supposed
>to protect the finals?
>
>In the NA Sprint contest (coming up in September!) this is a really big
>deal. There, you must QSY after calling CQ, and if the station I am
>calling misses my call, I may never hear him again!
>
>Tor
>AOGW
>
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[Tom Hammond-3]

Hi Tor:

At 10:29 AM 8/9/04, Torsten Clay wrote:

>I used my pair of K2/100's in last weekend's NAQP CW. Band conditions were
>pretty good for August, and I ended up with 789 qso's. I use the pair
>SO2R, meaning I am listening on one band while transmitting simultaneously
>on another band.  In the NAQP mults count on every band (including 160),
>and you change bands a lot.
>
>I was reminded again of a K2 firmware "bug" that has been very annoying to
>me: after changing bands, the K2 transmit power is reset to zero. I takes
>several dits for the power to come up to 100%. That means if I change
>bands, the first station I call gets something like "AOGW" instead of
>N4OGW! If I forgot to hit the tune button or send a string of random dits,
>the station I was calling frequently came back with "?" I'd rather not
>have to QRM other stations "tuning up" every time I change bands.
>
>Is it possible to make the K2 start out at 100% TX power? Is this supposed
>to protect the finals?
>
>In the NA Sprint contest (coming up in September!) this is a really big
>deal. There, you must QSY after calling CQ, and if the station I am
>calling misses my call, I may never hear him again!

The resetting of power upon BAND change is a function of the ALC which is
NOT hardware-derived, but software-driven. When you change bands, and the
power level generally WILL change because each band has a little bit
different efficiency, hence different drive levels required for the same
requested power output, the ALC must measure the actual output against the
requested output and make a determination as the drive required. This
requires a number of RF cycles to accomplish, thus the need to hit a few DITs.

Now, regarding the Sprint... unless you actually change BANDS after each
QSO, this should NOT be a problem since the K2 doesn't require resetting of
the ALC upon a frequency change WITHIN BAND. However, if you do change
bands after each QSO, then it will... and (VERY UNFORTUNATELY) I see no way
to get around it... sorry.

Maybe Wayne can some up with a way to save the ALC level DAC count and
apply it to the initial setting for the next band selected so you'll at
least have SOMETHING (more than mW) going out when you hit the key...

73,

Tom Hammond    N0SS

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[Vic K2VCO]

Tom Hammond wrote:

> The resetting of power upon BAND change is a function of the ALC which
> is NOT hardware-derived, but software-driven. When you change bands, and
> the power level generally WILL change because each band has a little bit
> different efficiency, hence different drive levels required for the same
> requested power output, the ALC must measure the actual output against
> the requested output and make a determination as the drive required.
> This requires a number of RF cycles to accomplish, thus the need to hit
> a few DITs.

I find myself switching to the dummy load after changing bands and
sending a string (not a couple) of dits.  This is very annoying in a
contest or when calling a DX station, but as you say it is inherent in
the design of the K2 and it doesn't seem that there's anything that can
be done about it.

On the other hand, Wayne has worked apparent miracles before, so maybe
he can again!

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco


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[Torsten Clay-2]

> The resetting of power upon BAND change is a function of the ALC which is
> NOT hardware-derived, but software-driven. When you change bands, and the
> power level generally WILL change because each band has a little bit
> different efficiency, hence different drive levels required for the same
> requested power output, the ALC must measure the actual output against the
> requested output and make a determination as the drive required. This
> requires a number of RF cycles to accomplish, thus the need to hit a few
> DITs.
>
> Now, regarding the Sprint... unless you actually change BANDS after each
> QSO, this should NOT be a problem since the K2 doesn't require resetting
> of
> the ALC upon a frequency change WITHIN BAND. However, if you do change
> bands after each QSO, then it will... and (VERY UNFORTUNATELY) I see no
> way
> to get around it... sorry.
>
> Maybe Wayne can some up with a way to save the ALC level DAC count and
> apply it to the initial setting for the next band selected so you'll at
> least have SOMETHING (more than mW) going out when you hit the key...
>

Saving the setting band-to-band might work. However, why can't this data
be saved (at least to some approximation) when the rig is first
aligned/built? Why re-determine it every time the band changes? Does it
change strongly with temperature?

My point is that especially when operating SO2R (standard if you want to
win a contest these days!), you are changing bands all the time. Much more
frequently than with only one rig. In the NAQP I frequently zip through
the other bands to check for openings.

One popular strategy in the Sprint now is to switch bands between QSO's.
Yes, it is possible to try to keep band changes down, but in the heat of
the battle, it's hard to remember that!

Tor

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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

Might do. And then when you hit the key with the wrong antenna (or no
antenna) attached, you may need to take a break and replace the finals. The
K2 and K2/100 are very robust systems, but repeated abuse is sure to have
its consequences.

Even with manually-tuned vacuum tube gear, smart ops drastically reduced the
power when retuning, especially on a new band.

Circumventing this simple check in pursuit of an extra few seconds in a
contest reminds me of the race driver who constantly winds the RPM up above
the red line on the tach. He might get in the lead. He might even win a race
or two, but he'll pay for it eventually.

Maybe someone will find a clever fix to allow instant band changes without
the added second to allow the K2 to check the output SWR and reset the power
level. If so, more power to them, but I sure don't want to pay for it in the
basic cost of my rig.

Ron AC7AC



-----Original Message-----

Saving the setting band-to-band might work. However, why can't this data be
saved (at least to some approximation) when the rig is first aligned/built?
Why re-determine it every time the band changes? Does it change strongly
with temperature?

My point is that especially when operating SO2R (standard if you want to win
a contest these days!), you are changing bands all the time. Much more
frequently than with only one rig. In the NAQP I frequently zip through the
other bands to check for openings.

One popular strategy in the Sprint now is to switch bands between QSO's.
Yes, it is possible to try to keep band changes down, but in the heat of the
battle, it's hard to remember that!

Tor


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[wayne burdick]

This can definitely be improved in firmware, and it's on the list for
the next update. (However, a new version is NOT due out any time soon.
When we get closer to that point we'll announce it.)

Meanwhile, send a dash, not a string of dots. Generally, power output
will stabilize within one dash except at very high code speeds.


> On the other hand, Wayne has worked apparent miracles before, so maybe
> he can again!

:)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

---

http://www.elecraft.com

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[Bill Coleman-2]

On Aug 9, 2004, at 1:56 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Might do. And then when you hit the key with the wrong antenna (or no
> antenna) attached, you may need to take a break and replace the
> finals. The
> K2 and K2/100 are very robust systems, but repeated abuse is sure to
> have
> its consequences.

How about this idea. I'm sure the efficiency of the K2 doesn't vary
much more than a 2:1 or 3:1 range. More likely less than 2:1. Instead
of reducing power to zero and working up, why not take a guess at what
the ALC might be? Perhaps on a band change, cut the ALC in half or down
to a third, and then work back up.

This way, the first few dits aren't reduced to zero, but perhaps only
by 3-6 dB.

Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL        Mail: [hidden email]
Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!"
             -- Wilbur Wright, 1901

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