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K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

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G4BUE

K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

For general day to day operating, I normally use the K2 in SPLIT mode
(with the flashing V over A on the front panel) and have the
Secondary Menu option set to PER.

I use Logger 32 connected to the DX Cluster through the Internet and
have noticed that when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option is
cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no SPLIT.
This happens whether the Secondary Menu SPLT option is set to NOR or
PER.

Is this the norm, and if so is anyone aware of a mod that can be done
to prevent it happening, please?

It is especially annoying when a DX station working split is spotted
on the Cluster. The K2 is correctly sent to the DX station's
transmitting frequency, and after using the A/B button to find the DX
station's listening frequency, I transmit only to find I am
transmitting on the DX station's transmitting frequency because the
SPLIT option has been cancelled and I have forgotten to switch it
back on again.

Of course, this can be got round by hitting the SPLIT button after
clicking on the spot, but in the heat of the chase for the DX
station, I often forget to do this. In any case, in a well designed
radio (like the K2) it should not be necessary to have to remember to
do this.

Although I don't use the K2's RIT option, the same thing happens with
that, it is cancelled when you click on to a Cluster spot.

I use N1MM Logger for contesting and the same thing happens when you
click on a DX station in that program. The problem must therefore be
with the design of the K2 and not the logging program.

I searched the Elecraft Reflector Archives for an answer and found
that WA2DGD asked the same question in July 2001. Larry was using
the DX4WIN logging program and the answer provided was to use the
TS850-TS950 option in DX4WIN for setting the radio, but Logger 32
only has a KENWOOD ALL option, which is the only one that works with
the K2, and N1MM Logger specifically has an Elecraft setting.

Thanks for any help.

73 de Chris, G4BUE

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Dan Barker

RE: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

What commands do these programs send to the K2 when you "click on a spot"?
That is the first question. If the documentation doesn't say, and the vendor
won't tell, then you'll have to put a sniffer on it.

Only after you find a command string that has an unexpected result can you
say there is a problem with the K2. My belief is that the software is
sending commands to force the K2 out of split.

This could be the result of an error on the part of the programmer
(unlikely) or the use of macros designed for other radios than the K2 (most
likely).

In any case, more documentation is needed before any problem has even been
described!

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

<snip>
when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option is
cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no SPLIT.
</snip>

<snip>The problem must therefore be
with the design of the K2 and not the logging program.
</snip>

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G4BUE

RE: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

Thanks for your quick reply Dan.

Logger 32 has a "Radio Debug Window" which shows the commands and
replies going between Logger 32 and the K2.

When I click on a DX spot, Logger 32 sends the following message to
the K2:

Set Radio Freq/Mode : FR0;FA00018080000;MD3;FA00018080000;

73 de Chris, G4BUE

On 13 Mar 2006 at 6:28, Dan Barker wrote:

> What commands do these programs send to the K2 when you "click on a
> spot"? That is the first question. If the documentation doesn't say,
> and the vendor won't tell, then you'll have to put a sniffer on it.
>
> Only after you find a command string that has an unexpected result can
> you say there is a problem with the K2. My belief is that the software
> is sending commands to force the K2 out of split.
>
> This could be the result of an error on the part of the programmer
> (unlikely) or the use of macros designed for other radios than the K2
> (most likely).
>
> In any case, more documentation is needed before any problem has even
> been described!
>
> Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456
>
> <snip>
> when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
> goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option is
> cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no SPLIT.
> </snip>
>
> <snip>The problem must therefore be
> with the design of the K2 and not the logging program.
> </snip>

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Don Wilhelm-3

RE: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

Chris,

The K2 is operating properly - apparently Logger 32 programmers wanted Split
to be cancelled or they would not have sent that string of commands.
The KIO2 Programmers Reference clearly indicates that the 'FR' command
always cancels Split mode.

To work effectively with a program in Split mode, the program must be aware
of which VFO you are using for transmit and which for receive. My guess is
that Logger 32 did not want to deal with that potential for confusion
because the transmit VFO can be quickly changed by a tap of the front panel
button or by a KIO2 command - many things could easily get mixed up.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Thanks for your quick reply Dan.
>
> Logger 32 has a "Radio Debug Window" which shows the commands and
> replies going between Logger 32 and the K2.
>
> When I click on a DX spot, Logger 32 sends the following message to
> the K2:
>
> Set Radio Freq/Mode : FR0;FA00018080000;MD3;FA00018080000;
>
> 73 de Chris, G4BUE
>
> On 13 Mar 2006 at 6:28, Dan Barker wrote:
>
> > What commands do these programs send to the K2 when you "click on a
> > spot"? That is the first question. If the documentation doesn't say,
> > and the vendor won't tell, then you'll have to put a sniffer on it.
> >
> > Only after you find a command string that has an unexpected result can
> > you say there is a problem with the K2. My belief is that the software
> > is sending commands to force the K2 out of split.
> >
> > This could be the result of an error on the part of the programmer
> > (unlikely) or the use of macros designed for other radios than the K2
> > (most likely).
> >
> > In any case, more documentation is needed before any problem has even
> > been described!
> >
> > Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456
> >
> > <snip>
> > when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
> > goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option is
> > cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no SPLIT.
> > </snip>
> >
> > <snip>The problem must therefore be
> > with the design of the K2 and not the logging program.
> > </snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006
>
>

Dan Barker

RE: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

In reply to this post by G4BUE

<snip>
Set Radio Freq/Mode : FR0;FA00018080000;MD3;FA00018080000;
</snip>

Let's see what that is SUPPOSED to do (ref: KIO2_Pgmrs_Ref_revC)

FR0;
Sets receive VFO to A (What about transmit? Don't you need an "FT1;"?

FA00018080000;
Set VFO A frequency (What about VFO B?)

MD3;
Set Operating Mode to CW

FA00018080000;
Set VFO A frequency again (interesting - maybe the MD3; sometimes resets
the VFO? - Then, why the first FA?)

Anyhow, to rule out a firmware glitch, you should do the above commands
manually, and with Hyperterm, and see if they perform differently. They
shouldn't.

I powered up my K2 (first time since we moved, last Saturday) and it's
busted. Probably mechanical, but I don't have time to look now. Poweron I
get a horrible buzzing in the speaker, regardless of the AF pot setting. I
immediately unplug. Will inspect before debugging. However, you may want to
try those commands yourself.

You need macros that accurately reflect what you want to do. BTW, I'm not
sure what you expect it to do. When you click on a spot, should it set two
frequenies? Should it set one and set the other some fixed offset from it?
Should it read the current offset and apply that to the freq in the spot?

I agree "it" shouldn't change the SPLIT/NOR mode. ("it", in this case -
Sorry Mr. Clinton - means the software/K2 Combination).

Dan Barker

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hank k8dd-2

Re: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

In reply to this post by G4BUE

Chris Page wrote:

> For general day to day operating, I normally use the K2 in SPLIT mode
> (with the flashing V over A on the front panel) and have the
> Secondary Menu option set to PER.
>
> I use Logger 32 connected to the DX Cluster through the Internet and
> have noticed that when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
> goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option is
> cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no SPLIT.
> This happens whether the Secondary Menu SPLT option is set to NOR or
> PER.
>
> Is this the norm, and if so is anyone aware of a mod that can be done
> to prevent it happening, please?

Chris ....

The short answer is yes and nothing!
Yes it is the norm and nothing can be done.

Then the longer answer .... That's how Logger 32 works. It will not
send split
frequencies to the DX Cluster nor will it recognize them from the
cluster. The
ham who writes Logger 32 does not believe in split operating. Every
time the split
subject comes up on the reflector for Logger 32 it results in a
sometimes long,
sometimes volatile, thread .... happens on most reflectors, doesn't it?

Logger 32 is a fully featured program with more stuff than I use - the
price right and
it does have a few things that are whims, or beliefs of the software writer.

73 Hank K8DD

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Rich McCabe

Re: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

In reply to this post by G4BUE

I would say you have a software issue and not a hardware one. I have no
problems setting splits on the K2.

If the command you listed is the one for split it will not function. They
are not doing the FB so its useless.

K2 has a split button emulation "SW26" but appears they are not using this.

I am not familiar with your logger program and although its possible to use
software to do the splits, they are not getting it done without setting the
VFO B.

73,

Rich
kd0zv

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Page" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

> Thanks for your quick reply Dan.
>
> Logger 32 has a "Radio Debug Window" which shows the commands and
> replies going between Logger 32 and the K2.
>
> When I click on a DX spot, Logger 32 sends the following message to
> the K2:
>
> Set Radio Freq/Mode : FR0;FA00018080000;MD3;FA00018080000;
>
> 73 de Chris, G4BUE
>
> On 13 Mar 2006 at 6:28, Dan Barker wrote:
>
>> What commands do these programs send to the K2 when you "click on a
>> spot"? That is the first question. If the documentation doesn't say,
>> and the vendor won't tell, then you'll have to put a sniffer on it.
>>
>> Only after you find a command string that has an unexpected result can
>> you say there is a problem with the K2. My belief is that the software
>> is sending commands to force the K2 out of split.
>>
>> This could be the result of an error on the part of the programmer
>> (unlikely) or the use of macros designed for other radios than the K2
>> (most likely).
>>
>> In any case, more documentation is needed before any problem has even
>> been described!
>>
>> Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456
>>
>> <snip>
>> when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
>> goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option is
>> cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no SPLIT.
>> </snip>
>>
>> <snip>The problem must therefore be
>> with the design of the K2 and not the logging program.
>> </snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

G4BUE

RE: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-3

Thanks to Don, Dan and Rich for their explanations of this problem.

Whilst noting what Don says about Logger 32 not sending the TX and RX
information for each of the K2's VFOs, and that being the reason it
will not work effectively, it cannot be the reason why it won't work
with N1MM. N1MM does send the TX and RX frequency information for
each VFO, at least whenever the spot on the DX Cluster contains a TX
and RX frequency, ie split operation on 40 and 80 metres CW.

N1MM does not have a Radio Debug window like Logger 32 and so I am
unable to see what the actual command that is sent by N1MM to the K2.

By the way Rich, what logging program are you using? It will be nice
to know of one that doesn't cancel the split option on the K2.

73 de Chris, G4BUE

On 13 Mar 2006 at 8:54, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Chris,
>
> The K2 is operating properly - apparently Logger 32 programmers wanted
> Split to be cancelled or they would not have sent that string of
> commands. The KIO2 Programmers Reference clearly indicates that the
> 'FR' command always cancels Split mode.
>
> To work effectively with a program in Split mode, the program must be
> aware of which VFO you are using for transmit and which for receive.
> My guess is that Logger 32 did not want to deal with that potential
> for confusion because the transmit VFO can be quickly changed by a tap
> of the front panel button or by a KIO2 command - many things could
> easily get mixed up.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > Thanks for your quick reply Dan.
> >
> > Logger 32 has a "Radio Debug Window" which shows the commands and
> > replies going between Logger 32 and the K2.
> >
> > When I click on a DX spot, Logger 32 sends the following message to
> > the K2:
> >
> > Set Radio Freq/Mode : FR0;FA00018080000;MD3;FA00018080000;
> >
> > 73 de Chris, G4BUE
> >
> > On 13 Mar 2006 at 6:28, Dan Barker wrote:
> >
> > > What commands do these programs send to the K2 when you "click on
> > > a spot"? That is the first question. If the documentation doesn't
> > > say, and the vendor won't tell, then you'll have to put a sniffer
> > > on it.
> > >
> > > Only after you find a command string that has an unexpected result
> > > can you say there is a problem with the K2. My belief is that the
> > > software is sending commands to force the K2 out of split.
> > >
> > > This could be the result of an error on the part of the programmer
> > > (unlikely) or the use of macros designed for other radios than the
> > > K2 (most likely).
> > >
> > > In any case, more documentation is needed before any problem has
> > > even been described!
> > >
> > > Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > when I click onto a Cluster spot, the K2 correctly
> > > goes to the frequency and mode of the spot, but the SPLIT option
> > > is cancelled and the K2 returns to its default setting of no
> > > SPLIT. </snip>
> > >
> > > <snip>The problem must therefore be
> > > with the design of the K2 and not the logging program.
> > > </snip>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date:
> > 3/10/2006
> >
> >
>
>

Dan Barker

RE: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

So sniff it!

If you don't have a network sniffer (most don't), you can use another PC (or
laptop). Configure Hyperterm to look like a K2, hook up the cable, and tell
the logger to do the spot. The "commands" will appear on the screen!

If the software won't do the spot without first communicating with the K2,
you may need to rig a splitter for pins 5 and 3 (sig gnd and TxD FROM the
logger), but don't split out pin 2, it will just confuse the issue.

btw, documentation or the vendor's input is a better choice - OR - write
your own macros, then you'll know what they do and can make them do what you
want.

You Still haven't said what you WANT the macro to do. I'm just guessing what
is desired.

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

<snip>
N1MM does not have a Radio Debug window like Logger 32 and so I am
unable to see what the actual command that is sent by N1MM to the K2.
</snip>

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Rich McCabe

Re: K2 SPLIT AND DX CLUSTER SPOTS WITH LOGGER 32 & N1MM

> So sniff it!
>
> If you don't have a network sniffer (most don't), you can use another PC
> (or
> laptop). Configure Hyperterm to look like a K2, hook up the cable, and
> tell
> the logger to do the spot. The "commands" will appear on the screen!

PortMon does the same thing without using another PC. Just start it before
you start your serial application and watch the data. And its free !
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/Portmon.html

73,

Rich
kd0zv

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