Elecraft

K2 Sound and feel

Classic

List

Threaded

7 messages Options

Sam Morgan

K2 Sound and feel

I'm a new used K2 owner. I have been getting use to the rig the last week.

In another thread this was said:

<quote>
I have used Spectogram to align the filters, and I'll be doing that again with a
bit more experience. That made a significant difference in the "feel/sound" of
the radio. Like you, I intend to do some more "measurement" in addition to just
setting things up and starting to operate.

Compared to the FT990, a rig that I have really enjoyed for many reasons, the K2
is much quieter and more flexible.
</quote>

I have noticed I'm having the opposite experience. I have a noise floor of S9 on
40m. With my TS-430S and the ssb filter I can listen to the rig all day. But
with the K2 after a half hour or so I have to turn the sound down to give my
ears a break. There seems to be so many highs in the background noise that it
really gets on my nerves in a short time. This is even with the MFJ DSP filter
inline after the K2.

I don't have the dead tree manuals yet, maybe later this week. So I haven't
wanted to really get into checking all the adjustments until then.

The rig is dead on frequency, when replying to a cw station. On ssb I am told my
transmitted signal has great audio, MC42 hand mike. Power out is good. So, I'm
jumping to the conclusion that it's all set up well. What gives with all the
annoying highs even when using the cw narrow filters? Only relief I get is when
I turn the AF1 on.

I did use the spectrogram to move the cw center frequency from 500hz to 600hz.
When I did this, I happened to set it up on the wrong side of the passband. A
couple of folks got me straightened out on that. But the thing I remember was
how wonderfully quiet the rig was when I was on the wrong side. Signals just
popped up from the quiet and it was a pleasure to hear.

Any suggestions why I'm hearing so many highs? And how I might could shift
things around to change it when I get the manuals.

TIA
--
GB & 73's
KA5OAI
Sam Morgan
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Brett gazdzinski-2

RE: K2 Sound and feel

I did some comparisons between my 756 pro and the K2
on 40 meters tonight, only CW, SSB always hurts my ears
so I cant say about that, plus I don't have the ssb option
added to the K2.
I used headphones, the same antenna, and tuned in strong
and weak signals, some had very close qso's going on, and
others had ssb splatter, and lots of atmospheric noise,
static crashes, etc. I have a station control setup that allows
me to select any antenna, receiver, transmitter, etc, so
doing A/B comparisons is easy.

I got to say, I never really spent a lot of time comparing the
two radios before, but the 756 pro sounds HORRIBLE!

There was a lot of weird things coming out of the 756, much more
noise and rumble, I suspect the early stages are being
subjected to all sorts of interference, and while its filtered
out, the results still come through somehow.
Static crashes came through as massive rolling waves of rumble
and other noise. CW sometimes sounded fuzzy and weak on the
756 yet its clear on the K2.

I cant even hear the static crashes on the K2, the close in ssb
splatter I can barely hear on the K2, and I don't hear close cw if I
narrow the filter on the K2.
I dislike narrow filters, but the 200hz filter setting I have
on the K2 sounds much better than the 400 hz 756 pro filter setting.

If I had to listen to the 756 on CW or ssb for long under conditions
like what was on 40 tonight, I think I would rather turn it off.

I played around setting the filters up a bit when I got the K2 done,
but did not really get critical, I just tried a few different settings,
BFO pitches, filter widths, etc.
I did manage to get the tone to stay the same when switching between
filters, and using the spectrogram software put the bfo pitch in the
center of the filter bandwidth.

I find it kind of amazing that the expensive in its day 756 pro
sounds so poor.

I used to do a lot of CW on a heathkit HW7, then an HW101, listened
to CW on lots of vintage gear, and the emtech kit, and while some of it
had a lot of built in background noise, or poor filters, I don't
think it sounded as bad as the 756 pro.
Not that the copy is bad on the 756, it just seems to sound very poor.
Maybe that's something that dsp does? combined with all those
conversions?

I would venture to guess, on CW anyway, that if you find ANY rig that
sounds better than the K2 on receive, you have something wrong with your K2.

Brett
N2DTS

>
> I'm a new used K2 owner. I have been getting use to the rig
> the last week.
>
> In another thread this was said:
>
> <quote>
> I have used Spectrogram to align the filters, and I'll be
> doing that again with a
> bit more experience. That made a significant difference in
> the "feel/sound" of
> the radio. Like you, I intend to do some more "measurement"
> in addition to just
> setting things up and starting to operate.
>
> Compared to the FT990, a rig that I have really enjoyed for
> many reasons, the K2
> is much quieter and more flexible.
> </quote>
>
> I have noticed I'm having the opposite experience. I have a
> noise floor of S9 on
> 40m. With my TS-430S and the ssb filter I can listen to the
> rig all day. But
> with the K2 after a half hour or so I have to turn the sound
> down to give my
> ears a break. There seems to be so many highs in the
> background noise that it
> really gets on my nerves in a short time. This is even with
> the MFJ DSP filter
> inline after the K2.
>
> I don't have the dead tree manuals yet, maybe later this
> week. So I haven't
> wanted to really get into checking all the adjustments until then.
>
> The rig is dead on frequency, when replying to a cw station.
> On ssb I am told my
> transmitted signal has great audio, MC42 hand mike. Power out
> is good. So, I'm
> jumping to the conclusion that it's all set up well. What
> gives with all the
> annoying highs even when using the cw narrow filters? Only
> relief I get is when
> I turn the AF1 on.
>
> I did use the spectrogram to move the cw center frequency
> from 500hz to 600hz.
> When I did this, I happened to set it up on the wrong side of
> the passband. A
> couple of folks got me straightened out on that. But the
> thing I remember was
> how wonderfully quiet the rig was when I was on the wrong
> side. Signals just
> popped up from the quiet and it was a pleasure to hear.
>
> Any suggestions why I'm hearing so many highs? And how I
> might could shift
> things around to change it when I get the manuals.
>
> TIA
> --
> GB & 73's
> KA5OAI
> Sam Morgan
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

dave.wilburn

Re: K2 Sound and feel

There you hit the word I was looking for, "rumble". I have the narrow
250 Hz filter in a 706 and a 718. That sums up the difference between
them in the K2. With those filters there is more rumble, and sometimes
the signals blow right by the filters and blast you if you have the
volume up. With the filters in the K2, I find that I can use the wider
bandwidths more than expected, and that the effects of the filter on the
received audio is "softer". If that makes any sense, where the received
audio with the other units with narrow filters is harsher.

David Wilburn
[hidden email]
K4DGW
K2 #5982

Brett gazdzinski wrote:

> I did some comparisons between my 756 pro and the K2
> on 40 meters tonight, only CW, SSB always hurts my ears
> so I cant say about that, plus I don't have the ssb option
> added to the K2.
> I used headphones, the same antenna, and tuned in strong
> and weak signals, some had very close qso's going on, and
> others had ssb splatter, and lots of atmospheric noise,
> static crashes, etc. I have a station control setup that allows
> me to select any antenna, receiver, transmitter, etc, so
> doing A/B comparisons is easy.
>
> I got to say, I never really spent a lot of time comparing the
> two radios before, but the 756 pro sounds HORRIBLE!
>
> There was a lot of weird things coming out of the 756, much more
> noise and rumble, I suspect the early stages are being
> subjected to all sorts of interference, and while its filtered
> out, the results still come through somehow.
> Static crashes came through as massive rolling waves of rumble
> and other noise. CW sometimes sounded fuzzy and weak on the
> 756 yet its clear on the K2.
>
> I cant even hear the static crashes on the K2, the close in ssb
> splatter I can barely hear on the K2, and I don't hear close cw if I
> narrow the filter on the K2.
> I dislike narrow filters, but the 200hz filter setting I have
> on the K2 sounds much better than the 400 hz 756 pro filter setting.
>
> If I had to listen to the 756 on CW or ssb for long under conditions
> like what was on 40 tonight, I think I would rather turn it off.
>
> I played around setting the filters up a bit when I got the K2 done,
> but did not really get critical, I just tried a few different settings,
> BFO pitches, filter widths, etc.
> I did manage to get the tone to stay the same when switching between
> filters, and using the spectrogram software put the bfo pitch in the
> center of the filter bandwidth.
>
> I find it kind of amazing that the expensive in its day 756 pro
> sounds so poor.
>
> I used to do a lot of CW on a heathkit HW7, then an HW101, listened
> to CW on lots of vintage gear, and the emtech kit, and while some of it
> had a lot of built in background noise, or poor filters, I don't
> think it sounded as bad as the 756 pro.
> Not that the copy is bad on the 756, it just seems to sound very poor.
> Maybe that's something that dsp does? combined with all those
> conversions?
>
> I would venture to guess, on CW anyway, that if you find ANY rig that
> sounds better than the K2 on receive, you have something wrong with your K2.
>
>
>
> Brett
> N2DTS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> I'm a new used K2 owner. I have been getting use to the rig
>> the last week.
>>
>> In another thread this was said:
>>
>> <quote>
>> I have used Spectrogram to align the filters, and I'll be
>> doing that again with a
>> bit more experience. That made a significant difference in
>> the "feel/sound" of
>> the radio. Like you, I intend to do some more "measurement"
>> in addition to just
>> setting things up and starting to operate.
>>
>> Compared to the FT990, a rig that I have really enjoyed for
>> many reasons, the K2
>> is much quieter and more flexible.
>> </quote>
>>
>> I have noticed I'm having the opposite experience. I have a
>> noise floor of S9 on
>> 40m. With my TS-430S and the ssb filter I can listen to the
>> rig all day. But
>> with the K2 after a half hour or so I have to turn the sound
>> down to give my
>> ears a break. There seems to be so many highs in the
>> background noise that it
>> really gets on my nerves in a short time. This is even with
>> the MFJ DSP filter
>> inline after the K2.
>>
>> I don't have the dead tree manuals yet, maybe later this
>> week. So I haven't
>> wanted to really get into checking all the adjustments until then.
>>
>> The rig is dead on frequency, when replying to a cw station.
>> On ssb I am told my
>> transmitted signal has great audio, MC42 hand mike. Power out
>> is good. So, I'm
>> jumping to the conclusion that it's all set up well. What
>> gives with all the
>> annoying highs even when using the cw narrow filters? Only
>> relief I get is when
>> I turn the AF1 on.
>>
>> I did use the spectrogram to move the cw center frequency
>> from 500hz to 600hz.
>> When I did this, I happened to set it up on the wrong side of
>> the passband. A
>> couple of folks got me straightened out on that. But the
>> thing I remember was
>> how wonderfully quiet the rig was when I was on the wrong
>> side. Signals just
>> popped up from the quiet and it was a pleasure to hear.
>>
>> Any suggestions why I'm hearing so many highs? And how I
>> might could shift
>> things around to change it when I get the manuals.
>>
>> TIA
>> --
>> GB & 73's
>> KA5OAI
>> Sam Morgan
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Brett gazdzinski-2

RE: K2 Sound and feel

Yes, I think there is a lot going on in the modern stuff,
early stages being distorted, stuff getting through the filters,
and other sorts of distortion.

I have been into AM a long time, and fidelity there is important,
and all the modern rigs sound nasty on AM no matter what filters
they have, even with outboard audio amps.
The best sounding receivers I had were ones from the 40's,
single conversion, push pull audio output tubes.
The SX17, the Scott SLRM, they were designed to also be
hifi amps for record players...

When I did my K2 filter crystals, when grounding them, I used
thicker wire, think that helps any?
I cant detect anything getting past the filter in my K2.

Brett
N2DTS

> There you hit the word I was looking for, "rumble". I have

> the narrow
> 250 Hz filter in a 706 and a 718. That sums up the
> difference between
> them in the K2. With those filters there is more rumble, and
> sometimes
> the signals blow right by the filters and blast you if you have the
> volume up. With the filters in the K2, I find that I can use
> the wider
> bandwidths more than expected, and that the effects of the
> filter on the
> received audio is "softer". If that makes any sense, where
> the received
> audio with the other units with narrow filters is harsher.
>
> David Wilburn
> [hidden email]
> K4DGW
> K2 #5982
>
>

Darwin, Keith

RE: K2 Sound and feel

On the topic of comparing radios...

I've found that one must be careful on how the comparison is done.
You'll get a far better reading if you can hold everything constant
except for the rig under test.

I'll feed a single antenna to both rigs through an antenna switch
(maybe) and then send the audio output from each rig to my mixing board
which in turn feeds my headphones. I can exactly balance the audio
level from each rig using the mixer and I'm listening through the same
headphones.

With such a setup, switching from one rig to another is as simple as
turning two pots on the mixer (or maybe hitting a mute button). True
differences (and similarities) between rigs become immediately apparent
in a way that just doesn't happen otherwise.

And be sure to do both short term and long term listening. Quickly
switching from one to another can show you things. So, too can
switching after listening to one for a while.

- Keith N1AS -
- K2 5411.ssb.100 -
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Don Wilhelm-3

Re: K2 Sound and feel

And I might add "Perception is 98% of reality" <G> And that is true no
matter what the meters or instruments say.

73,
Don W3FPR

Darwin, Keith wrote:
> On the topic of comparing radios...
>
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

k0wa@swbell.net

Re: K2 Sound and feel

In reply to this post by Sam Morgan

Given that my ears are not precision instruments (they roll of rapidly after 3500 Hz and have really bad hearing above that)...I too must agree with Don.

But, my experience has been that the K2 has a better sound that the PRO II ... by far! I contest a lot...mostly CW (some SSB)...and I get very tired running the PRO II. It drives me nuts after a couple of hours. When I use the K2, this does not happen...and I don't use the 250 Hz filter. The lowest one I have is 400. The filter that is best is the DSP package between your ears.

I've likened the K2 to the ICOM 765 (from the 80s). Now that rig was beautiful in audio output....easy to listen to...and I put the K2 in the category. Again, this is all experience and not quantitative in nature.

Lee - K0WA

In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense devine?
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com