K2 near the sea: leave on or not?

[Fred (FL)]

RUSTY Florida area?

I'm surprised to hear about corrosive salty-air
regions in Florida.  Just never heard of it?
Our son lives on big island of Hawaii - near
Hilo.  The salt water air type of corrosion, on
things like bicycles, etc. - is notorious in Hawaii.
Things there - not protected, don't last so long.

Islands of Hawaii - are in the trade winds region
of the Pacific - and I guess get their daily dose
of salty air, naturally.  I'm not sure this is
the case on either coast of Florida.  I'm probably
wrong tho.  The big island, above city of Hilo -
gets a daily dose of natural rain, like 2 pm
every afternoon.  Perhaps the rain there, has
some salinity.

For some reason I've not heard this about Florida.

We live 8 miles from the Gulf Coast of mid-western
Florida.  I can't say I see anything around our home,
or in my garage, etc. - that has any appearance
of salt corrosion.  Cars look exceptional - easy
to keep clean.  No visible corrosion on anything
we have?  No rust on tools, etc.  

I wonder what the salinity is of the Florida
Atlantic ocean, vs the Hawaiian Pacific ocean
and the trade winds?

Fred,
N3CSY



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[Tom Zeltwanger]

I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The water there is
only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my experience
with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for my equipment.
So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this problem.

73,

Tom KG3V



Quoting "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>:

> RUSTY Florida area?
>
> I'm surprised to hear about corrosive salty-air
> regions in Florida.  Just never heard of it?
> Our son lives on big island of Hawaii - near
> Hilo.  The salt water air type of corrosion, on
> things like bicycles, etc. - is notorious in Hawaii.
> Things there - not protected, don't last so long.
>
> Islands of Hawaii - are in the trade winds region
> of the Pacific - and I guess get their daily dose
> of salty air, naturally.  I'm not sure this is
> the case on either coast of Florida.  I'm probably
> wrong tho.  The big island, above city of Hilo -
> gets a daily dose of natural rain, like 2 pm
> every afternoon.  Perhaps the rain there, has
> some salinity.
>
> For some reason I've not heard this about Florida.
>
> We live 8 miles from the Gulf Coast of mid-western
> Florida.  I can't say I see anything around our home,
> or in my garage, etc. - that has any appearance
> of salt corrosion.  Cars look exceptional - easy
> to keep clean.  No visible corrosion on anything
> we have?  No rust on tools, etc.  
>
> I wonder what the salinity is of the Florida
> Atlantic ocean, vs the Hawaiian Pacific ocean
> and the trade winds?
>
> Fred,
> N3CSY
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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[Norm Havercroft]

I live on the southern shore of Fidalgo Island where the fresh salt air turns metal of most sorts into new colors.  In order to minimize corrosion I have come up with the following technique.  After all the soldering and close trimming is done on a project, I go back over every lead end and give it a touch of solder to cover those copper ends that are anxious to turn green.  It takes less than a second on each component lead.  Doing so also makes for a very smooth board.  Next comes a very thorough cleaning with Q tips, tooth brush and denatured alcohol the remove all the flux.  After cleaning, I give the board a thin coating of Boeshield, an anti-corrosion spray developed by Boeing Aircraft.  If you use the thin red extension "straw" and very gently depress the spray button, you can get a very thin coating on the board without getting it on the components.  Quickly tipping the board back and forth will cover everything before the solvent flashes off.  You can also just spray some into a small cup and use Q tips to apply if you are wary of variable caps.  After it dries, you can either leave it with a slightly waxy coating or wipe it down with no loss of protection.

I have 20 year old projects that look as bright and shiny as the day the were built.  This stuff works well to keep tools from rusting.  I also use it on boat electrical systems with great success.  And no, I don't own Boeing.

72/73,

N7NSD
Norm  

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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Tom,

I recently repaired a K2 that had lived for several years in the salt
air of Houston Texas.  The external case screws and the connectors on
the rear panel were corroded enough that they were changed.  However,
the inside of the K2 still looked just fine.

If I can base any conclusions on that one K2, I would suggest that you
cover your K2 when it is not in use - just a sheet of plastic would
probably do the job although you may want to look into some kind of
custom cover for it.

Remember that this comment is based on my brief observation of one K2
that had been in a salt air environment - it would be unwise for me to
generalize any further on the subject.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom Zeltwanger wrote:
> I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The water there is
> only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my experience
> with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for my equipment.
> So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this problem.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom KG3V
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[Tom Zeltwanger]

Thanks Don,

That is probably ood advice. I keep the equipment in a closed room, but I think
I will cover it. I generally keep my radios for a long time (this K2 is
replacing a Kenwood TS-930, bought in about 1980!).

73,

Tom KG3V


Quoting Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>:

> Tom,
>
> I recently repaired a K2 that had lived for several years in the salt
> air of Houston Texas.  The external case screws and the connectors on
> the rear panel were corroded enough that they were changed.  However,
> the inside of the K2 still looked just fine.
>
> If I can base any conclusions on that one K2, I would suggest that you
> cover your K2 when it is not in use - just a sheet of plastic would
> probably do the job although you may want to look into some kind of
> custom cover for it.
>
> Remember that this comment is based on my brief observation of one K2
> that had been in a salt air environment - it would be unwise for me to
> generalize any further on the subject.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Tom Zeltwanger wrote:
> > I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The water
> there is
> > only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my experience
>
> > with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for my
> equipment.
> > So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this problem.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Tom KG3V
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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

Since a major uproar over energy conservation seems to have erupted on
another thread here <G> I'll ask the question I raised there again:

Has anyone considered using desiccants rather than leave the power on 24/7
if you're in an area where considerable moisture condenses in your rig? I
believe the one used most often around electronic gear is silica dioxide
(SiO2). It's a naturally occurring mineral that is commonly sold in an
"indicating" form, small crystals that change from blue to pink as the
material absorbs moisture. It can absorb up to 40% of its own weight at
normal room temperatures and is quite easy to "recharge". You just put it in
a warm oven for a while until it turns blue again! It's often sold in
inexpensive five-pound cans by stores catering to the dried-flower trade.

Even though I've lived within a few hundred feet of the Pacific Ocean I've
yet to encounter any corrosion problems. If I did my first choice would be
to reduce the humidity in some energy-efficient way rather than simply leave
the power on. If one wanted to be really rigorous about it, a small solar
oven could handle the recharging process <G>. Even on ships, it takes months
-- often a year or two -- for something like the old-fashioned lifeboat
radios that enclosed about a cubit foot of air inside their case to have a
desiccant tube about 1 inch in diameter and 4 inches long become saturated.

Ron AC7AC


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Zeltwanger
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:30 PM
To: [hidden email]; Don Wilhelm
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?


Thanks Don,

That is probably ood advice. I keep the equipment in a closed room, but I
think I will cover it. I generally keep my radios for a long time (this K2
is replacing a Kenwood TS-930, bought in about 1980!).

73,

Tom KG3V


Quoting Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>:

> Tom,
>
> I recently repaired a K2 that had lived for several years in the salt
> air of Houston Texas.  The external case screws and the connectors on
> the rear panel were corroded enough that they were changed.  However,
> the inside of the K2 still looked just fine.
>
> If I can base any conclusions on that one K2, I would suggest that you
> cover your K2 when it is not in use - just a sheet of plastic would
> probably do the job although you may want to look into some kind of
> custom cover for it.
>
> Remember that this comment is based on my brief observation of one K2
> that had been in a salt air environment - it would be unwise for me to
> generalize any further on the subject.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Tom Zeltwanger wrote:
> > I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The
> > water
> there is
> > only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my
> > experience
>
> > with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for my
> equipment.
> > So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this
> > problem.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Tom KG3V
> _______________________________________________
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[Ken Kopp]

HelloRon,

An "vintage" method of keeping waveguide and Heliax feedlines
both pressurized and dry  ... used by Andrew ... was a box that
had an aquarium pump that fed it's output through a can of silica-gel
and into the line/s.  This kept the lines at a pressure that was
slightly above ambient, preventing the line from "breathing" in and
out.

Andrew now manufactures a modern version of this device that still
uses approximately a quart of silica-gel housed in a clear-plastic
container. As you've said, the instructions tell us to place the
silica-gel in
a flat pan in a relatively low-temperature oven until the
moisture-indicating
colored granules return to normal.

I've not seen any kind of corrosion or other negative factors associated
with silica-gel in the 30+ years I've seen/used it.

The question of how to apply it to the inside of a K2 remains .... Maybe
put it in an infant's sock and put that inside a K2. There are some very
transparent, finely woven fabrics that could be sewn into an
appropiately
sized "baggie" that would allow visual insprection to know then it's
time
to pop it into the oven.  Think "Victoria's Secret ... (:-))

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]


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[Jack Brindle]

I grew up in Miami, 2 miles from Biscayne Bay. The only time I saw  
any significant salt spray problem was after a Hurricane blew  
through, spraying the east side of trees and structures. The trees  
lost their leaves on that side (strange looking), but that was about  
it. There are a lot of folks with aluminum awnings and screens over  
their patios and pools. Those things last many, many years without  
significant problems (unless a _bad_ hurricane comes through). I  
never saw any problems with my radio gear or antennas from salt or  
weathering in the years I was there.

I _did_ see a tremendous boost in antenna efficiency in my vertical  
antenna from having the salt water table only three feet down,  
however. No radials were needed, just put up the antenna and add RF  
for plenty of European DX...

As far as the Houston air is concerned, the problems were probably  
more due to pollution than salty air. The large amount of  
petrochemical plants in the area have really taken their toll on the  
air. Southwest Louisiana, where I went to college (McNeese State) has  
fewer of these plants and markedly better air to breath. Other than  
that, it is the same atmosphere. Again, I had no problems there either.

Look at it this way, both places need good air conditioning to live  
in. The AC units sit outside in this atmosphere with their embedded  
electronic controls. They last a long time...

Now farther south (the Keys or Caribbean), its a much different story...

- Jack Brindle, W6FB. Ex WA4FIB, WB5KQJ, WN4WXF...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------


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[David Cutter]

In the old days we used to call it tropicallising, now it's called conformal coating and refers to a material either sprayed, painted or dipped onto the electrical parts.  Conformal coating for military is very expensive and time consuming involving inspection with a uv lamp to pick up the uv die in the material, to descover imperfections and can be up to 3 layes thick.  

If you don't keep you equipment in an air tight box, then leave it switched on to slow down the deposition of salt products.  I think this works by keeping the interior warmer and thus higher air pressure to prevent the ingress from the surroundings.  Of course when you switch off it cools and the pressure falls and drags in the cooler contaminating air from the surroundings and that's when the damage starts.  So, switch off and immediately put into an air tight box.  It all sounds a bit excessive, but the other way is to coat everything with bare metal with a suitable coating, like the one mentioned from another reply.  The lacquer and and varnish sprays that you hold 6" away are only partly effective because tall components create shaddows and the spray doesn't get in properly.  They work on the solder side fairly well, but the cut off component wires do not get a coating - it runs off.  Genuine conformal coating comes expensive, is thick and does not run.  Last time I boug
 ht some it was about £40 for 400mL (circa 1990) made by Dow Corning but there are more types to choose from now.  If you spray, use several layers and get right in between the components; let it dry between sprays.  Take care that on some rf components you may get a small shift in value upsetting your carefully trimmed filters etc.

David
G3UNA  

>
> From: Tom Zeltwanger <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2007/04/17 Tue PM 03:34:29 BST
> To: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?
>
> I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The water there is
> only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my experience
> with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for my equipment.
> So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this problem.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom KG3V
>
>
>
> Quoting "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>:
>
> > RUSTY Florida area?
> >
> > I'm surprised to hear about corrosive salty-air
> > regions in Florida.  Just never heard of it?
> > Our son lives on big island of Hawaii - near
> > Hilo.  The salt water air type of corrosion, on
> > things like bicycles, etc. - is notorious in Hawaii.
> > Things there - not protected, don't last so long.
> >
> > Islands of Hawaii - are in the trade winds region
> > of the Pacific - and I guess get their daily dose
> > of salty air, naturally.  I'm not sure this is
> > the case on either coast of Florida.  I'm probably
> > wrong tho.  The big island, above city of Hilo -
> > gets a daily dose of natural rain, like 2 pm
> > every afternoon.  Perhaps the rain there, has
> > some salinity.
> >
> > For some reason I've not heard this about Florida.
> >
> > We live 8 miles from the Gulf Coast of mid-western
> > Florida.  I can't say I see anything around our home,
> > or in my garage, etc. - that has any appearance
> > of salt corrosion.  Cars look exceptional - easy
> > to keep clean.  No visible corrosion on anything
> > we have?  No rust on tools, etc.  
> >
> > I wonder what the salinity is of the Florida
> > Atlantic ocean, vs the Hawaiian Pacific ocean
> > and the trade winds?
> >
> > Fred,
> > N3CSY
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com 
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> >
>
>
>
>
>
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[Dan Barker]

Pssssst! I know Victoria's secret.

Dan

<snip>... finely woven fabrics that could be sewn into an appropiately sized
"baggie" that would allow visual insprection to know then it's time to pop
it into the oven.  Think "Victoria's Secret ... (:-))
</snip>

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[Brett gazdzinski-2]

 My guess would be you would spend more energy heating the
oven up drying out the silica gel than leaving the rig on
all the time.

I would just turn it off and cover it up.

What about the rest of the stuff in the house?
Does the toaster rust and the TV crap out?

What about your poor car?

Brett
N2DTS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron
> D'Eau Claire
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:54 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?
>
> Since a major uproar over energy conservation seems to have erupted on
> another thread here <G> I'll ask the question I raised there again:
>
> Has anyone considered using desiccants rather than leave the
> power on 24/7
> if you're in an area where considerable moisture condenses in
> your rig? I
> believe the one used most often around electronic gear is
> silica dioxide
> (SiO2). It's a naturally occurring mineral that is commonly sold in an
> "indicating" form, small crystals that change from blue to pink as the
> material absorbs moisture. It can absorb up to 40% of its own
> weight at
> normal room temperatures and is quite easy to "recharge". You
> just put it in
> a warm oven for a while until it turns blue again! It's often sold in
> inexpensive five-pound cans by stores catering to the
> dried-flower trade.
>
> Even though I've lived within a few hundred feet of the
> Pacific Ocean I've
> yet to encounter any corrosion problems. If I did my first
> choice would be
> to reduce the humidity in some energy-efficient way rather
> than simply leave
> the power on. If one wanted to be really rigorous about it, a
> small solar
> oven could handle the recharging process <G>. Even on ships,
> it takes months
> -- often a year or two -- for something like the
> old-fashioned lifeboat
> radios that enclosed about a cubit foot of air inside their
> case to have a
> desiccant tube about 1 inch in diameter and 4 inches long
> become saturated.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Zeltwanger
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:30 PM
> To: [hidden email]; Don Wilhelm
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?
>
>
> Thanks Don,
>
> That is probably ood advice. I keep the equipment in a closed
> room, but I
> think I will cover it. I generally keep my radios for a long
> time (this K2
> is replacing a Kenwood TS-930, bought in about 1980!).
>
> 73,
>
> Tom KG3V
>
>
> Quoting Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > I recently repaired a K2 that had lived for several years
> in the salt
> > air of Houston Texas.  The external case screws and the
> connectors on
> > the rear panel were corroded enough that they were changed.
>  However,
> > the inside of the K2 still looked just fine.
> >
> > If I can base any conclusions on that one K2, I would
> suggest that you
> > cover your K2 when it is not in use - just a sheet of plastic would
> > probably do the job although you may want to look into some kind of
> > custom cover for it.
> >
> > Remember that this comment is based on my brief observation
> of one K2
> > that had been in a salt air environment - it would be
> unwise for me to
> > generalize any further on the subject.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > Tom Zeltwanger wrote:
> > > I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The
> > > water
> > there is
> > > only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my
> > > experience
> >
> > > with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a
> problem for my
> > equipment.
> > > So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > >
> > > Tom KG3V
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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[Jack Brindle]

Conformal coating is actually meant to solve a completely different  
problem. Imagine an environment that regularly goes from high heat/
high humidity to very cold/dry conditions in just a few minutes. When  
that happens, condensation is sure to happen. Conformal coating takes  
care of this situation very nicely.

Oh, this situation happens thousands of times every day - it is the  
environment for aircraft avionics...

To the original poster: Don't worry about it. It really isn't a  
problem where you live. If you worry about this, you also need to  
worry about the sand particles from the Sahara that are regularly  
carried into South Florida on the tradewinds (and also effect  
hurricane development).

On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:54 AM, <[hidden email]>  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> In the old days we used to call it tropicallising, now it's called  
> conformal coating and refers to a material either sprayed, painted  
> or dipped onto the electrical parts.  Conformal coating for  
> military is very expensive and time consuming involving inspection  
> with a uv lamp to pick up the uv die in the material, to descover  
> imperfections and can be up to 3 layes thick.
>
> If you don't keep you equipment in an air tight box, then leave it  
> switched on to slow down the deposition of salt products.  I think  
> this works by keeping the interior warmer and thus higher air  
> pressure to prevent the ingress from the surroundings.  Of course  
> when you switch off it cools and the pressure falls and drags in  
> the cooler contaminating air from the surroundings and that's when  
> the damage starts.  So, switch off and immediately put into an air  
> tight box.  It all sounds a bit excessive, but the other way is to  
> coat everything with bare metal with a suitable coating, like the  
> one mentioned from another reply.  The lacquer and and varnish  
> sprays that you hold 6" away are only partly effective because tall  
> components create shaddows and the spray doesn't get in properly.  
> They work on the solder side fairly well, but the cut off component  
> wires do not get a coating - it runs off.  Genuine conformal  
> coating comes expensive, is thick and does not run.  Last time I boug
>  ht some it was about £40 for 400mL (circa 1990) made by Dow  
> Corning but there are more types to choose from now.  If you spray,  
> use several layers and get right in between the components; let it  
> dry between sprays.  Take care that on some rf components you may  
> get a small shift in value upsetting your carefully trimmed filters  
> etc.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>>
>> From: Tom Zeltwanger <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 2007/04/17 Tue PM 03:34:29 BST
>> To: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>
>> CC: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?
>>
>> I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The  
>> water there is
>> only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my  
>> experience
>> with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for  
>> my equipment.
>> So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this  
>> problem.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Tom KG3V
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> RUSTY Florida area?
>>>
>>> I'm surprised to hear about corrosive salty-air
>>> regions in Florida.  Just never heard of it?
>>> Our son lives on big island of Hawaii - near
>>> Hilo.  The salt water air type of corrosion, on
>>> things like bicycles, etc. - is notorious in Hawaii.
>>> Things there - not protected, don't last so long.
>>>
>>> Islands of Hawaii - are in the trade winds region
>>> of the Pacific - and I guess get their daily dose
>>> of salty air, naturally.  I'm not sure this is
>>> the case on either coast of Florida.  I'm probably
>>> wrong tho.  The big island, above city of Hilo -
>>> gets a daily dose of natural rain, like 2 pm
>>> every afternoon.  Perhaps the rain there, has
>>> some salinity.
>>>
>>> For some reason I've not heard this about Florida.
>>>
>>> We live 8 miles from the Gulf Coast of mid-western
>>> Florida.  I can't say I see anything around our home,
>>> or in my garage, etc. - that has any appearance
>>> of salt corrosion.  Cars look exceptional - easy
>>> to keep clean.  No visible corrosion on anything
>>> we have?  No rust on tools, etc.
>>>
>>> I wonder what the salinity is of the Florida
>>> Atlantic ocean, vs the Hawaiian Pacific ocean
>>> and the trade winds?
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>> N3CSY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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- Jack Brindle, W6FB
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------


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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

There's a variety of "hard" containers available too with tiny holes in them
to allow air to pass but not the crystals. I found one in a bottle of
aspirin recently about the size of the eraser off of a pencil! The
pharmaceutical companies have given up trying to get people to store their
drugs outside of the bathroom where the humidity destroys the efficacy of
most drugs and have started trying to protect them with desiccants instead!

I guess the question is whether protection is really needed. I've worked on
a lot of marine radios aboard ships and can't recall finding any corrosion
except for those things exposed directly to salt water spray. Of course,
water vapor does *not* carry salt. It can condense in gear and cause other
problems, but they aren't limited to coastal areas. The equipment has to be
exposed to actual airborne droplets of salt water to get salt corrosion.

I was a broadcast transmitter engineer at an FM station that had a dry-air
filled feed line like you describe, only it was coaxial line made using a
copper tube within a larger copper pipe. One of the things I kept a close
eye on was the SWR on the line. If moisture started to intrude for any
reason, it would start a relentless climb toward the point at which the
transmitter would shut down automatically. Obviously, my job was to make
sure it stayed on the air <G>.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
HelloRon,

An "vintage" method of keeping waveguide and Heliax feedlines both
pressurized and dry  ... used by Andrew ... was a box that had an aquarium
pump that fed it's output through a can of silica-gel and into the line/s.
This kept the lines at a pressure that was slightly above ambient,
preventing the line from "breathing" in and out.

Andrew now manufactures a modern version of this device that still uses
approximately a quart of silica-gel housed in a clear-plastic container. As
you've said, the instructions tell us to place the
silica-gel in
a flat pan in a relatively low-temperature oven until the
moisture-indicating
colored granules return to normal.

I've not seen any kind of corrosion or other negative factors associated
with silica-gel in the 30+ years I've seen/used it.

The question of how to apply it to the inside of a K2 remains .... Maybe put
it in an infant's sock and put that inside a K2. There are some very
transparent, finely woven fabrics that could be sewn into an
appropiately
sized "baggie" that would allow visual insprection to know then it's
time
to pop it into the oven.  Think "Victoria's Secret ... (:-))

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]



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[Ron D'Eau Claire-2]

"Tropicalizing" can help with fungi and other stuff that grows in
excessively humid and warm climes. It's not specific to a sea air
environment. Indeed, salt tends to kill many fungi! In warm climates water
evaporates from the sea. Such water vapor does not carry salt. It's pure
water. But when it condenses on things it provides the moist environment
where, combined with warm temperatures, fungi thrive!

And that might be a significant difference. I notice that those like Tom,
who reported seeing some corrosion issues, are on the eastern coast of the
USA. I'm on the west coast where it's much, much cooler. The Pacific ocean
along the US mainland coast about 51F year around - cool enough to produce
hypothermia in a short period of time if someone is in the water without a
survival suit. (There's a reason the neoprene 'wet-suit' used by surfers and
divers was invented independently by three different avid surfers - all who
lived on the California coast!)

We don't get the humid, moist air here folks along warmer waters experience.
Mold and fungi can be issues here, but only where people carelessly allow
high temperatures and condensation to occur repeatedly such as laundry rooms
with poorly-ventilated clothes dryers. I've never found condensation in any
radio equipment.

Ron D'Eau Claire


-----Original Message-----

In the old days we used to call it tropicallising, now it's called conformal
coating and refers to a material either sprayed, painted or dipped onto the
electrical parts.  Conformal coating for military is very expensive and time
consuming involving inspection with a uv lamp to pick up the uv die in the
material, to descover imperfections and can be up to 3 layes thick.  

If you don't keep you equipment in an air tight box, then leave it switched
on to slow down the deposition of salt products.  I think this works by
keeping the interior warmer and thus higher air pressure to prevent the
ingress from the surroundings.  Of course when you switch off it cools and
the pressure falls and drags in the cooler contaminating air from the
surroundings and that's when the damage starts.  So, switch off and
immediately put into an air tight box.  It all sounds a bit excessive, but
the other way is to coat everything with bare metal with a suitable coating,
like the one mentioned from another reply.  The lacquer and and varnish
sprays that you hold 6" away are only partly effective because tall
components create shaddows and the spray doesn't get in properly.  They work
on the solder side fairly well, but the cut off component wires do not get a
coating - it runs off.  Genuine conformal coating comes expensive, is thick
and does not run.  Last time I boug  ht some it was about £40 for 400mL
(circa 1990) made by Dow Corning but there are more types to choose from
now.  If you spray, use several layers and get right in between the
components; let it dry between sprays.  Take care that on some rf components
you may get a small shift in value upsetting your carefully trimmed filters
etc.

David
G3UNA  

>
> From: Tom Zeltwanger <[hidden email]>
> Date: 2007/04/17 Tue PM 03:34:29 BST
> To: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>
> CC: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?
>
> I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The water
> there is
> only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my

experience
> with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for my
equipment.
> So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this problem.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom KG3V

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[k6dgw]

Ken Kopp wrote:
>
> The question of how to apply it to the inside of a K2 remains .... Maybe
> put it in an infant's sock and put that inside a K2. There are some very
> transparent, finely woven fabrics that could be sewn into an appropiately
> sized "baggie" that would allow visual insprection to know then it's time
> to pop it into the oven.  Think "Victoria's Secret ... (:-))

FWIW:  My hearing disappeared one night some 40 years ago on the other
side of the planet.  Over the years, the VA has provided me with hearing
aids which have slowly increased in complexity [and cost, although
fortunately, not to me :-) ].  Just got some new ones, and I now get to
walk around with about $5K of electronics and DSP in my ears.

They came with a little plastic jar into which I put them each night.
It has a little round pillow in the bottom that is filled with silica
gel crystals, and that has a perforated plastic bottom.  I nuke it for
about 30 sec when the crystals are purple, and they turn blue again.

The pillow would easily fit into a K2.  I think you can get these things
at hearing aid stores.

Incidentally, corrosion was not the problem for us in SE Asia, and
unless you're in a true marine setting, I doubt it would be a problem
for anyone's equipment inside a house whether or not it is left on.  Our
problem was fungus ... on our gear and on us.  The gear is long gone,
but the jungle rot hangs on to me tenaciously.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7
- www.cqp.org
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[David Cutter]

Hi Jack

You may well be right about the origination of "conformal coating" but it
was quickly taken up by other services who saw its benefits.  I agree that
for MOST amateur situations it's probably over the top, but one of the
respondents to this thread has done it because he feels it necessary in his
situation.

David
G3UNA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Brindle" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft Discussion List" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?


Conformal coating is actually meant to solve a completely different
problem. Imagine an environment that regularly goes from high heat/
high humidity to very cold/dry conditions in just a few minutes. When
that happens, condensation is sure to happen. Conformal coating takes
care of this situation very nicely.

Oh, this situation happens thousands of times every day - it is the
environment for aircraft avionics...

To the original poster: Don't worry about it. It really isn't a
problem where you live. If you worry about this, you also need to
worry about the sand particles from the Sahara that are regularly
carried into South Florida on the tradewinds (and also effect
hurricane development).

On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:54 AM, <[hidden email]>
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> In the old days we used to call it tropicallising, now it's called
> conformal coating and refers to a material either sprayed, painted  or
> dipped onto the electrical parts.  Conformal coating for  military is very
> expensive and time consuming involving inspection  with a uv lamp to pick
> up the uv die in the material, to descover  imperfections and can be up to
> 3 layes thick.
>
> If you don't keep you equipment in an air tight box, then leave it
> switched on to slow down the deposition of salt products.  I think  this
> works by keeping the interior warmer and thus higher air  pressure to
> prevent the ingress from the surroundings.  Of course  when you switch off
> it cools and the pressure falls and drags in  the cooler contaminating air
> from the surroundings and that's when  the damage starts.  So, switch off
> and immediately put into an air  tight box.  It all sounds a bit
> excessive, but the other way is to  coat everything with bare metal with a
> suitable coating, like the  one mentioned from another reply.  The lacquer
> and and varnish  sprays that you hold 6" away are only partly effective
> because tall  components create shaddows and the spray doesn't get in
> properly.   They work on the solder side fairly well, but the cut off
> component  wires do not get a coating - it runs off.  Genuine conformal
> coating comes expensive, is thick and does not run.  Last time I boug
>  ht some it was about £40 for 400mL (circa 1990) made by Dow  Corning but
> there are more types to choose from now.  If you spray,  use several
> layers and get right in between the components; let it  dry between
> sprays.  Take care that on some rf components you may  get a small shift
> in value upsetting your carefully trimmed filters  etc.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>>
>> From: Tom Zeltwanger <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 2007/04/17 Tue PM 03:34:29 BST
>> To: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>
>> CC: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 near the sea: leave on or not?
>>
>> I operate from the shores of the Chesapeake Bay in Virginia. The  water
>> there is
>> only moderately salty but corrosion is very rapid compared to my
>> experience
>> with inland QTHs. I was wondering if this would be a problem for  my
>> equipment.
>> So far, no problem. I imagine anyone near the sea shores has this
>> problem.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Tom KG3V
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> RUSTY Florida area?
>>>
>>> I'm surprised to hear about corrosive salty-air
>>> regions in Florida.  Just never heard of it?
>>> Our son lives on big island of Hawaii - near
>>> Hilo.  The salt water air type of corrosion, on
>>> things like bicycles, etc. - is notorious in Hawaii.
>>> Things there - not protected, don't last so long.
>>>
>>> Islands of Hawaii - are in the trade winds region
>>> of the Pacific - and I guess get their daily dose
>>> of salty air, naturally.  I'm not sure this is
>>> the case on either coast of Florida.  I'm probably
>>> wrong tho.  The big island, above city of Hilo -
>>> gets a daily dose of natural rain, like 2 pm
>>> every afternoon.  Perhaps the rain there, has
>>> some salinity.
>>>
>>> For some reason I've not heard this about Florida.
>>>
>>> We live 8 miles from the Gulf Coast of mid-western
>>> Florida.  I can't say I see anything around our home,
>>> or in my garage, etc. - that has any appearance
>>> of salt corrosion.  Cars look exceptional - easy
>>> to keep clean.  No visible corrosion on anything
>>> we have?  No rust on tools, etc.
>>>
>>> I wonder what the salinity is of the Florida
>>> Atlantic ocean, vs the Hawaiian Pacific ocean
>>> and the trade winds?
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>> N3CSY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Post to: [hidden email]
>>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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- Jack Brindle, W6FB
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------


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[Stuart Rohre]

Silica gel is available in little pillows commercially for insertion into
other packages.

Stuart
K5KVH

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[Stuart Rohre]

Actually, Jack very little electronics is outside the building, but inside
the inside air conditioner unit.  Outside is the compressor, and a relay.
In some parts of Tx, the outside residential units fail regularly, becauser
the field of electric current for the relay attracts fire ants who try to
nest in the relay box, thus shorting it out.

Stuart
K5KVH

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