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K3 1750Hz roger beep

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rfenabled

K3 1750Hz roger beep

Hi,

(Snip)

1) redesign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
"K" on higher wpm used also)
(End Snip)

PLEASE do NOT do this.

Many operators in VK hate this CBer type of operating.

A lot of us refuse to acknowledge a TX with a roger beep of any kind, even in a contest.

Don't try and tell me it helps, it doesn't. It just adds to the noise.

A group of us have written to the regulator in Australia and have asked for a ruling to make it illegal to TX a roger beep tone and we have received word from them that a ruling is being considered.

If successful, we will petition the FCC to do likewise.

Working weak signals, the roger beeps are distracting and not helpful.

As for our friends in the EU who contest, you do not need a roger beep, but you could work on cleaning up your audio as some of the worst audio I have heard on the bands lately is coming from badly set up audio out of some stations in the EU in the contest.

BTW, 10/15M was rocking into VK this last weekend.

73's
Gary
VK4WT/P and NO roger beep or lid behaviour
Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
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M0XDF

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

I stand in defence of Alexandr on this, it was something I asked for
before the first production run - I'm still having treatment for the
burns - so please, accept that not everyone feels this is not a good
idea (just as I would defend you for asking for wide-band Tx in VK
because your band plans are different).
As long as this is configurable, I don't see where the problem is. If
VK decide this is unacceptable in VK, then people wont use it there.
However, it is acceptable over here in G land and is used quite a lot
on V/UHF - there are two factions here, those that think it helps in
poor conditions, and those that think it looses you a second during
the over - not come across any that feel it makes it harder or
distracting - I personally quite like the idea.
73 de M0XDF

--
The rung of a ladder was never meant to rest upon, but only to hold a
man's
foot long enough to enable him to put the other somewhat higher.
-Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist and writer (1825-1995)

On 6 Oct 2009, at 20:59, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi,
>
> (Snip)
>
> 1) redesign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
> voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
> "K" on higher wpm used also)
> (End Snip)
>
> PLEASE do NOT do this.
>
> Many operators in VK hate this CBer type of operating.
>
> A lot of us refuse to acknowledge a TX with a roger beep of any
> kind, even in a contest.
>
> Don't try and tell me it helps, it doesn't. It just adds to the noise.
>
> A group of us have written to the regulator in Australia and have
> asked for a ruling to make it illegal to TX a roger beep tone and we
> have received word from them that a ruling is being considered.
>
> If successful, we will petition the FCC to do likewise.
>
> Working weak signals, the roger beeps are distracting and not helpful.
>
> As for our friends in the EU who contest, you do not need a roger
> beep, but you could work on cleaning up your audio as some of the
> worst audio I have heard on the bands lately is coming from badly
> set up audio out of some stations in the EU in the contest.
>
> BTW, 10/15M was rocking into VK this last weekend.

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Alexandr Kobranov

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

In reply to this post by rfenabled

Gary,
if something is switchable option it can be switched off (in VK-land
and anywhere).
We are talking about technical possibilities of K3 not about being or
not being CBer. Somebody is CBer without Rbeep - you know... :-)
(and I do not believe that CBer´s are buying K3´s - maybe as Rbeep
missing? :-))
If this (Rbeep) can help or not - it is another discussion.
I do not know - never heard this on HAM bands below 30MHz.
I have only have some experience from 2m and up. Probably you are not
talking about this as you mentioned EU stations ;-)

GL
73!
L. -dst-

[hidden email] napsal(a):

> Hi,
>
> (Snip)
>
> 1) redesign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
> voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
> "K" on higher wpm used also)
> (End Snip)
>
> PLEASE do NOT do this.
>
> Many operators in VK hate this CBer type of operating.
>
> A lot of us refuse to acknowledge a TX with a roger beep of any kind, even in a contest.
>
> Don't try and tell me it helps, it doesn't. It just adds to the noise.
>
> A group of us have written to the regulator in Australia and have asked for a ruling to make it illegal to TX a roger beep tone and we have received word from them that a ruling is being considered.
>
> If successful, we will petition the FCC to do likewise.
>
> Working weak signals, the roger beeps are distracting and not helpful.
>
> As for our friends in the EU who contest, you do not need a roger beep, but you could work on cleaning up your audio as some of the worst audio I have heard on the bands lately is coming from badly set up audio out of some stations in the EU in the contest.
>
> BTW, 10/15M was rocking into VK this last weekend.
>
> 73's
> Gary
> VK4WT/P and NO roger beep or lid behaviour
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

juergen piezo

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

In reply to this post by rfenabled

Hi Gary

Actually the worst audio I have heard is from your new VK 10 WATT hams. They either seem to be running ESSB or CB type audio with all knobs to the right! I know its tough working DX with 10 watts however that does not excuse poor operating practice.

I find it amazing that your authorities who deem these stations to be learners. Yet at the same time the law allows them to transmit ESSB by doing mods to their radios? This should be illegal for beginners.

I wonder why your authorities think that its ok for a station that knows nothing about transmitters, and then allows them to removed SSB filters and transmit SSB in 6khz? This is stupid to say the least. Here in Europe most countries have 2.7khz SSB bandwidth limit. If I was running 10 watts the last thing I would be doing is using ESSB to work DX.

I could probably work most of these 10 watt stations on 7mhz SSB if they did not run ESSB. But it seems to be a thing that the new hams seems to love in VK?

I wish some of these 10 watt stations would share some of their antenna engineering skills with the ham community. I have never heard so many loud 10 watt stations. Even in the hey day of 10 watt licenses in Japan during the peak of the solar cycle they were never so loud! When a station can work you long path on 7mhz with 10 watts and a dipole at 10 meters with a S9 signal you take notice Hi

John

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 1750Hz roger beep
> To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 12:59 PM
> Hi,
>
> (Snip)
>
> 1) redesign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit)
> for any
> voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose
> (sometimes CW
> "K" on higher wpm used also)
> (End Snip)
>
> PLEASE do NOT do this.
>
> Many operators in VK hate this CBer type of operating.
>
> A lot of us refuse to acknowledge a TX with a roger beep of
> any kind, even in a contest.
>
> Don't try and tell me it helps, it doesn't. It just adds to
> the noise.
>
> A group of us have written to the regulator in Australia
> and have asked for a ruling to make it illegal to TX a roger
> beep tone and we have received word from them that a ruling
> is being considered.
>
> If successful, we will petition the FCC to do likewise.
>
> Working weak signals, the roger beeps are distracting and
> not helpful.
>
> As for our friends in the EU who contest, you do not need a
> roger beep, but you could work on cleaning up your audio as
> some of the worst audio I have heard on the bands lately is
> coming from badly set up audio out of some stations in
> the EU in the contest.
>
> BTW, 10/15M was rocking into VK this last weekend.
>
> 73's
> Gary
> VK4WT/P and NO roger beep or lid behaviour
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

In reply to this post by M0XDF

> I stand in defence of Alexandr on this, it was something I asked for
> before the first production run - I'm still having treatment for the
> burns - so please, accept that not everyone feels this is not a good
> idea (just as I would defend you for asking for wide-band Tx in VK
> because your band plans are different).

... and I strongly support Gary on this. Roger beeps and other CB-
like activities are so antithetical to good amateur operation that
transceivers should not even include the option to enable them. If
an operator want to be a lid that badly they should be required to
separately purchase and install the hardware necessary to do so.

There is a reason that no reputable manufacturer of amateur rigs
has ever provided a "roger beep" option on HF transceivers - or
having done so one time has immediately discontinued it in future
products.

That this operation is "on V/UHF" is no justification for liddish
behavior.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David
> Ferrington, M0XDF
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 4:13 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Elecraft
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 1750Hz roger beep
>
>
> I stand in defence of Alexandr on this, it was something I asked for
> before the first production run - I'm still having treatment for the
> burns - so please, accept that not everyone feels this is not a good
> idea (just as I would defend you for asking for wide-band Tx in VK
> because your band plans are different).
> As long as this is configurable, I don't see where the
> problem is. If
> VK decide this is unacceptable in VK, then people wont use it
> there. However, it is acceptable over here in G land and is
> used quite a lot
> on V/UHF - there are two factions here, those that think it
> helps in
> poor conditions, and those that think it looses you a second during
> the over - not come across any that feel it makes it harder or
> distracting - I personally quite like the idea.
> 73 de M0XDF
>
> --
> The rung of a ladder was never meant to rest upon, but only
> to hold a
> man's
> foot long enough to enable him to put the other somewhat
> higher. -Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist and writer (1825-1995)
>
> On 6 Oct 2009, at 20:59, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > (Snip)
> >
> > 1) redesign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
> > voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
> > "K" on higher wpm used also) (End Snip)
> >
> > PLEASE do NOT do this.
> >
> > Many operators in VK hate this CBer type of operating.
> >
> > A lot of us refuse to acknowledge a TX with a roger beep of any
> > kind, even in a contest.
> >
> > Don't try and tell me it helps, it doesn't. It just adds to
> the noise.
> >
> > A group of us have written to the regulator in Australia and have
> > asked for a ruling to make it illegal to TX a roger beep
> tone and we
> > have received word from them that a ruling is being considered.
> >
> > If successful, we will petition the FCC to do likewise.
> >
> > Working weak signals, the roger beeps are distracting and
> not helpful.
> >
> > As for our friends in the EU who contest, you do not need a roger
> > beep, but you could work on cleaning up your audio as some of the
> > worst audio I have heard on the bands lately is coming from badly
> > set up audio out of some stations in the EU in the contest.
> >
> > BTW, 10/15M was rocking into VK this last weekend.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Evert Bakker (PA2KW)

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

Joe,

"
That this operation is "on V/UHF" is no justification for liddish
behavior."

I'm sorry to say so, but this sounds like an emotional opinion based on the
(US ?) relation between CB and roger beeps.

There is absolute no reason why someone is not allowed to use is. Liddish
behavior is something done by a person, not by technological possibilities.

Just my opinion

73's, Evert PA2KW

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

[end of thread]Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep ] END of Thread

Administrator

In reply to this post by M0XDF

Let's end the 'roger beep' thread for now.

This isn't a comment pro or con on this, but we're not planning on
adding 'roger beeps' any time soon.

We will adjust the optional 1750 Hz TX tone burst is needed for proper
eu usage based on beta feedback.

73, Eric WA6HHQ

David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

> I stand in defence of Alexandr on this, it was something I asked for
> before the first production run - I'm still having treatment for the
> burns - so please, accept that not everyone feels this is not a good
> idea (just as I would defend you for asking for wide-band Tx in VK
> because your band plans are different).
> As long as this is configurable, I don't see where the problem is. If
> VK decide this is unacceptable in VK, then people wont use it there.
> However, it is acceptable over here in G land and is used quite a lot
> on V/UHF - there are two factions here, those that think it helps in
> poor conditions, and those that think it looses you a second during
> the over - not come across any that feel it makes it harder or
> distracting - I personally quite like the idea.
> 73 de M0XDF
>
>

The Smiths

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

In reply to this post by rfenabled

I'm with you. If I wanted to talk on CB I wouldn't have taken all the time to learn morse code in the first place. Well, either that or I would just get on the VHF/UHF bands... NO ROGER BEEPS.. PLEASE for the love of....

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:59:34 +0000
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 1750Hz roger beep
>
> Hi,
>
> (Snip)
>
> 1) redesign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
> voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
> "K" on higher wpm used also)
> (End Snip)
>
> PLEASE do NOT do this.
>
> Many operators in VK hate this CBer type of operating.
>
> A lot of us refuse to acknowledge a TX with a roger beep of any kind, even in a contest.
>
> Don't try and tell me it helps, it doesn't. It just adds to the noise.
>
> A group of us have written to the regulator in Australia and have asked for a ruling to make it illegal to TX a roger beep tone and we have received word from them that a ruling is being considered.
>
> If successful, we will petition the FCC to do likewise.
>
> Working weak signals, the roger beeps are distracting and not helpful.
>
> As for our friends in the EU who contest, you do not need a roger beep, but you could work on cleaning up your audio as some of the worst audio I have heard on the bands lately is coming from badly set up audio out of some stations in the EU in the contest.
>
> BTW, 10/15M was rocking into VK this last weekend.
>
> 73's
> Gary
> VK4WT/P and NO roger beep or lid behaviour
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep

In reply to this post by Evert Bakker (PA2KW)

> I'm sorry to say so, but this sounds like an emotional
> opinion based on the (US ?) relation between CB and roger beeps.

While it is certainly emotional, it is not based on any relationship
between CB and roger beeps other than that it migrated from CB to
CB-like HF operators.

Don't think that my hatred is limited only to roger beeps ...
I also despise the audio echo boxes, phase boxes, "presence
processors," "compellors" and other audio quality destroying
devices that have been brought to HF.

For those who use such devices, losing one's license it too
easy a penalty. Such lids should be incarcerated if such
punishment were possible.

There is nothing except "entertainment value" in the roger
beeps and other audio tricks. They provide NO enhancement
to the communication.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evert
> Bakker (PA2KW)
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:33 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 1750Hz roger beep
>
>
> Joe,
>
> "
> That this operation is "on V/UHF" is no justification for liddish
> behavior."
>
>
> I'm sorry to say so, but this sounds like an emotional
> opinion based on the (US ?) relation between CB and roger beeps.
>
> There is absolute no reason why someone is not allowed to use
> is. Liddish behavior is something done by a person, not by
> technological possibilities.
>
> Just my opinion
>
> 73's, Evert PA2KW
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 1750Hz roger beep [Thread has been ENDed]

Administrator

Guys - This topic is CLOSED.

Eric
Elecraft Moderator

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
>> I'm sorry to say so, but this sounds like an emotional
>> opinion based on the (US ?) relation between CB and roger beeps.
>>
>
> While it is certainly emotional, it is not based on any relationship
> between CB and roger beeps other than that it migrated from CB to
> CB-like HF operators.
>
> Don't think that my hatred is limited only to roger beeps ...
> I also despise the audio echo boxes, phase boxes, "presence
> processors," "compellors" and other audio quality destroying
> devices that have been brought to HF.
>
> For those who use such devices, losing one's license it too
> easy a penalty. Such lids should be incarcerated if such
> punishment were possible.
>
> There is nothing except "entertainment value" in the roger
> beeps and other audio tricks. They provide NO enhancement
> to the communication.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evert
>> Bakker (PA2KW)
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:33 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 1750Hz roger beep
>>
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> "
>> That this operation is "on V/UHF" is no justification for liddish
>> behavior."
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry to say so, but this sounds like an emotional
>> opinion based on the (US ?) relation between CB and roger beeps.
>>
>> There is absolute no reason why someone is not allowed to use
>> is. Liddish behavior is something done by a person, not by
>> technological possibilities.
>>
>> Just my opinion
>>
>> 73's, Evert PA2KW
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>