K3 -AM Broadcast on 1800 Khz?

[Steve Walter WA3A]

On my new K3 I hear a Christian broadcast station centered on 1800 Khz.  I listened for awhile and Ohio was mentioned in the commercials several times. I live about 70 miles from Ohio and couldnt find the station anywhere else on my K3 after a quick search. I'm using a horizontal 160 meter loop antenna with no other indications of images or harmonics from broadcast signals. Any comments?  

[P.B. Christensen]

WCER- Canton, OH.  500W daytime.  Christian format.  1800 kHz is the second
harmonic of 900 kHz.   Call the station and ask to speak to its General
Manager or Chief Engineer.  Give the station an opportunity to assess the
situation before contacting the FCC.

Paul, W9Ac


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Walter WA3A" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:34 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 -AM Broadcast on 1800 Khz?

>
> On my new K3 I hear a Christian broadcast station centered on 1800 Khz.  I
> listened for awhile and Ohio was mentioned in the commercials several
> times.
> I live about 70 miles from Ohio and couldnt find the station anywhere else
> on my K3 after a quick search. I'm using a horizontal 160 meter loop
> antenna
> with no other indications of images or harmonics from broadcast signals.
> Any
> comments?
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AM-Broadcast-on-1800-Khz-tp3668435p3668435.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Jack Smith-6]

*Looks like second harmonic of WFIA* (900 KHz ) in Louisville KY.

Could be radiated by WFIA or could be generated locally to you.
Temporary installation of a high pass filter with a 1500 KHz cutoff
between your K3 and the antenna would demonstrate whether it is
generated inside the K3 or externally.

Jack K8ZOA




Steve Walter WA3A wrote:
> On my new K3 I hear a Christian broadcast station centered on 1800 Khz.  I
> listened for awhile and Ohio was mentioned in the commercials several times.
> I live about 70 miles from Ohio and couldnt find the station anywhere else
> on my K3 after a quick search. I'm using a horizontal 160 meter loop antenna
> with no other indications of images or harmonics from broadcast signals. Any
> comments?  
>  
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[Ken Kopp-3]

Hi Steve,

Assuming you listened long enough to hear the station's
call letters or ID slogan you can do a "Google" search and
probably learn their assigned frequency, which is likely to
be 900 kHz.

It's possible that the 1800 kHz signal is a mixing product
involving strong external signals, but I'd suspect a simple
2nd harmonic.  Do you have the general coverage module
in your K3?

Second harmonics from BC stations are not uncommon,
especially when using a "good" antenna on 160M. (;-)

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
     [hidden email]
     http://tinyurl.com/7lm3m5
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[Jack Smith-6]

Paul:

A few years ago, there was a clearly readable, consistent signal on the
low end of 3.5 MHz band from the 3rd harmonic of an AM station in
Philadelphia. I can't recall the exact frequency, may have been 1220 KHz
that I heard at 3660 KHz.

Philadelphia is around 150 miles from here so it wasn't a case of
locally generated harmonics or receiver products. It must be radiated
from the station. And, the modulation was clear, further evidence that
it was not locally induced.

After hearing it for several days, I called the FCC watch desk in DC.
The response I received was that since the harmonic was only in an
amateur radio band no action would be taken. I left it at that, figuring
that if I could hear the signal from 150 miles, the local 80 meter
operators in Philadelphia must be hearing it and they would take care of
the problem.

Don't know if I got a guy who didn't want to do his job or if that is
the new approach after almost all the field offices and field
enforcement was shut down. I know that back in the stone ages when I was
a field engineer at the Detroit FCC office, I would have found it worth
investigating.

Jack



Paul Christensen wrote:

> WCER- Canton, OH.  500W daytime.  Christian format.  1800 kHz is the second
> harmonic of 900 kHz.   Call the station and ask to speak to its General
> Manager or Chief Engineer.  Give the station an opportunity to assess the
> situation before contacting the FCC.
>
> Paul, W9Ac
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Walter WA3A" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:34 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 -AM Broadcast on 1800 Khz?
>
>
>  
>> On my new K3 I hear a Christian broadcast station centered on 1800 Khz.  I
>> listened for awhile and Ohio was mentioned in the commercials several
>> times.
>> I live about 70 miles from Ohio and couldnt find the station anywhere else
>> on my K3 after a quick search. I'm using a horizontal 160 meter loop
>> antenna
>> with no other indications of images or harmonics from broadcast signals.
>> Any
>> comments?
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-AM-Broadcast-on-1800-Khz-tp3668435p3668435.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>    
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>  

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[P.B. Christensen]

> After hearing it for several days, I called the FCC watch desk in DC. The
> response I received was that since the harmonic was only in an amateur
> radio band no action would be taken.

As I recall,  harmonic energy in Part 73 AM broadcast services still falls
under the general emission limitations under Section 73.44(b):

"Emissions removed by more than 75 kHz must be attenuated at least 43 + 10
Log (Power in watts) or 80 dB below the
unmodulated carrier level, whichever is the lesser attenuation, except for
transmitters having power less than 158 watts, where the attenuation must be
at least 65 dB below carrier level."

Interference to the reception of other services is addressed in Section
73.44(c):

"Should harmful interference be caused to the reception of other broadcast
or non-broadcast stations by out of band emissions, the licensee may be
directed to achieve a greater degree of attentuation than specified in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section."

So, in the event the FCC was to dismiss a future complaint, I would bring
these sections to their attention.  The first step in resolving these
matters is to be prepared with knowledge of the rules and work directly with
the station before getting the Commission involved.   In some cases,
second-harmonic notch filters may be required in addition to the AM
transmitter's existing LP network.

Paul, W9AC

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[Jim Brown-10]

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:59:46 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote:

>As I recall,  harmonic energy in Part 73 AM broadcast services still falls
>under the general emission limitations under Section 73.44(b):

Yes.

Several things are at play here. First, when a transmitter is producing
strong harmonic content, something is WRONG. It's either broken or
mistuned.  Second, we have the effects of the deregulation of broadcast
engineering of the Reagan years (remmeber the rants against big government
and for untrammelled free enterprise?), so the requirements that stations
have licensed engineers on duty are long gone, and the FCC lacks the staff
and funding to do much of its work still mandated by its own rules.
Nowadays, a single broadcast engineer is likely to be responsible for a
half dozen or more stations, even in major markets. Contrast this with 30
years ago when many major market stations employed 3 or more full time
engineers, most of them competent to do transmitter work.

For 20 years, I lived within 4 miles of virtually all the FM and TV
broadcasters in Chicago, and had a gain antenna on the roof that fed a
vintage Technics ST9030 FM tuner with a rock solid analog front end that
had a four-gang tuning capacitor. Only once did I hear a spur from any of
those stations, it was during an overnight maintenance period, and it was
gone in a few hours.

If you monitor the topband reflector (160M), you'll occasionally see posts
about broadcast spurs on 160M, sometimes strong. It rarely takes more than
a few weeks for pressure from hams on the FCC and those stations to clean
up their act. The key words to the station are "something in your
transmitter is broken, and is likely to fail completely. You should fix it
soon before it takes you off the air and you lose advertising revenue."

73,

Jim Brown K9YC



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[gdaught6]

Jim Brown wrote...

> The key words to the station are "something in your
> transmitter is broken, and is likely to fail completely. You should fix it
> soon before it takes you off the air and you lose advertising revenue."

It might also be useful to point out that their power expenses might be higher than
they should be, because they are transmitting power that isn't getting to their desired
audience.

73,


 George T Daughters, K6GT
CU in the California QSO Party (CQP)
October 3-4, 2009


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