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K3: Any gain with a new synth?

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Bill-3

K3: Any gain with a new synth?

My K3 is from early 2012 - ser: 62xx. I don't contest or DX - just rag
chew on 160/75/40 - makes a super 500 Watt station. Rarely do I touch
any controls other than the VFO or band switch. My QTH is very low noise
- typical local daytime noise level barely registers on the P3 (think
S-0). Yeah, I know I, I could be using something that cost far less. I
enjoy the Rolls Royce!

Now that there are a fair number of K3S rigs and modified K3 rigs in
the field - there should be something for me to learn from the users.

Considering my use of the K3 and my QTH - what would I gain by
installing the new synth (KSYN3A) in the existing K3? I am looking for
real-world 75 meter LSB experience. Wife says go for the K3S if I want
to, but I think it is overkill for what I do. Yankee cheap I guess.

Gotta say, however, the K-Line is soooo easy to use and is - without a
doubt - the best rig I have used in 55 years on the air.
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Wes (N7WS)

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

Why fight with success? IMHO, you'd never know the difference.

Wes N7WS
K3 S/N 2058
K3S S/N 10020

On 9/5/2015 6:03 AM, Bill wrote:

> My K3 is from early 2012 - ser: 62xx. I don't contest or DX - just rag chew on
> 160/75/40 - makes a super 500 Watt station. Rarely do I touch any controls
> other than the VFO or band switch. My QTH is very low noise - typical local
> daytime noise level barely registers on the P3 (think S-0). Yeah, I know I, I
> could be using something that cost far less. I enjoy the Rolls Royce!
>
> Now that there are a fair number of K3S rigs and modified K3 rigs in the
> field - there should be something for me to learn from the users.
>
> Considering my use of the K3 and my QTH - what would I gain by installing the
> new synth (KSYN3A) in the existing K3? I am looking for real-world 75 meter
> LSB experience. Wife says go for the K3S if I want to, but I think it is
> overkill for what I do. Yankee cheap I guess.

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

Bill,
I upgraded the synth and have not noticed any difference whatsoever. That is not to say there is none, only that I could not tell any difference since I could not do any A/B comparisons. I am very skeptical of those who claim to have noticed a difference without having done an actual A/B comparisons. Far too many factors at play.
The K3 is a truly exceptional performer. For your uses, you would not notice any difference either, IMHO.
73,
Bob/AA6VB

On 9/5/2015 6:03 AM, Bill wrote:

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

Bob,

I noticed an improvement right away just by tuning
20 CW during a very active contest weekend. My
ability to pull out weak signals was much enhanced.

But I do agree completely with you for Bill's
purposes "I don't contest or DX - just rag chew on
160/75/40... ".

73, Phil W7OX

On 9/5/15 7:54 AM, Chortek Bob via Elecraft wrote:

> Bill,
> I upgraded the synth and have not noticed any difference whatsoever. That is not to say there is none, only that I could not tell any difference since I could not do any A/B comparisons. I am very skeptical of those who claim to have noticed a difference without having done an actual A/B comparisons. Far too many factors at play.
> The K3 is a truly exceptional performer. For your uses, you would not notice any difference either, IMHO.
> 73,
> Bob/AA6VB
>
>
>
> On 9/5/2015 6:03 AM, Bill wrote:
>> My K3 is from early 2012 - ser: 62xx. I don't contest or DX - just rag chew on
>> 160/75/40 - makes a super 500 Watt station. Rarely do I touch any controls
>> other than the VFO or band switch. My QTH is very low noise - typical local
>> daytime noise level barely registers on the P3 (think S-0). Yeah, I know I, I
>> could be using something that cost far less. I enjoy the Rolls Royce!
>>
>> Now that there are a fair number of K3S rigs and modified K3 rigs in the
>> field - there should be something for me to learn from the users.
>>
>> Considering my use of the K3 and my QTH - what would I gain by installing the
>> new synth (KSYN3A) in the existing K3? I am looking for real-world 75 meter
>> LSB experience. Wife says go for the K3S if I want to, but I think it is
>> overkill for what I do. Yankee cheap I guess.

Hisashi T Fujinaka

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

NK7Z has some A/B comparisons that show some improvement and I thought I
heard the same differences during a contest.

However, I bet you won't see that much difference using LSB on the lower
bands. I am quite jealous of your noise levels.

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015, Phil Wheeler wrote:

> Bob,
>
> I noticed an improvement right away just by tuning 20 CW during a very active
> contest weekend. My ability to pull out weak signals was much enhanced.
>
> But I do agree completely with you for Bill's purposes "I don't contest or DX
> - just rag chew on 160/75/40... ".

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - [hidden email]
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

I have two K3s and now a new K3S. I not sure the sync card makes much difference, but the noise reduction is now outstanding.
George, W6GF
PS: A great radio was made greater

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 9:39 AM, Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bob,

I noticed an improvement right away just by tuning
20 CW during a very active contest weekend. My
ability to pull out weak signals was much enhanced.

But I do agree completely with you for Bill's
purposes "I don't contest or DX - just rag chew on
160/75/40... ".

73, Phil W7OX

On 9/5/15 7:54 AM, Chortek Bob via Elecraft wrote:

cheng076

K3: Any gain with a new synth?

In reply to this post by Bill-3

I consider myself a casual operator. I get on when I can, avoid the contests, rag chew a lot, and have fun. I mostly work SSB with my K3 but am working on code speed. I use WIN4K3 as a control program and panadaptor.

These differences are purely subjective and without measurement. All computer controls unchanged and K3 controls returned to previous settings.

Before going to the new synth I had a no signal noise floor S meter reading of 4 or 5, occasionally 6
The panadaptor background had scattered 'clutter' noise and I could see very close adjacent signals but not read them.
The noise floor 'line' on the display was at about -102 db and 4 to 6 db wide peak to peak

After the mod I had a no signal noise floor S-meter reading of 2 to 3 sometimes 4
The panadaptor background was much clearer, signals more distinct and close together signals were easier to separate and copy
The noise floor line was at -106 to -108 and the line was thinner by a couple db.

Just my observations and YMMV

73, PJH, N7PXY
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Mike VE3YF

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

In reply to this post by Bill-3

Bill:

I just finished installing the new boards in both my K3's. I did one
radio complete and then did a quick test on 80m and 20m with both
radios. I found the new boards quiets the receiver
down somewhat and makes it easier to pull out the weaker signals. I
have pretty quiet conditions at my QTH, all utilities are underground.

My simple test was comparing Rig A (New KSYN3A boards installed) to
Rig B (Old KSYN3 boards installed). I have not done any real tests to
further evaluate the new boards, but in my
case they have helped somewhat....

Maybe the new boards do really help, or perhaps it was me sub
consciously wanting to believe that to justify the cost.

73 De Mike
VE3YF

http://www.ve3yf.com
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Bill-3

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

In reply to this post by Bill-3

Thank you for all the answers - here and email. I appreciate the
candidness.

Unfortunately, for Elecraft, I have decided to keep my K3 as it is. In
my instance, I don't see enough potential improvement to justify the
expense and labor (considerable to get the rig to the bench and back). I
think it is really difficult to enhance the K3's already incredible
operation.

But, as I said, this is in my instance (use and QTH).

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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bhemmis

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

That’s kind of what I’ve been thinking too, Bill. With my often high noise level suburban location combined with modest wire and vertical antennas I think it would be overkill and not worth the investment. As it is I often joke that the K3 for me like driving a McLaren to the grocery store-way more than I need. That said I’m not parting with it ! Thanks Elecraft for at least giving us the upgrade option.
73, Brian K3USC (since 1962)

> On Sep 6, 2015, at 9:16 AM, Bill <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank you for all the answers - here and email. I appreciate the candidness.
>
> Unfortunately, for Elecraft, I have decided to keep my K3 as it is. In my instance, I don't see enough potential improvement to justify the expense and labor (considerable to get the rig to the bench and back). I think it is really difficult to enhance the K3's already incredible operation.
>
> But, as I said, this is in my instance (use and QTH).
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
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James Rogers

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

In reply to this post by Bill-3

I have my "old K3" on QTH.com, priced at what it would take to get it.
Meanwhile it is still on my operating desk and if no one wants it, then
it will stay right here, hooked up and ready to roll. Who knows I might
try satellite again and a second K3 so I can run full duplex with my K3s
works for me. I do see some advantages to the K3s as it is a bit quieter
and I love the new audio and having the dual preamps is a plus as I work
a lot on meteor scatter.

73 Jim, W4ATK

On 9/6/2015 8:16 AM, Bill wrote:

> Thank you for all the answers - here and email. I appreciate the
> candidness.
>
> Unfortunately, for Elecraft, I have decided to keep my K3 as it is. In
> my instance, I don't see enough potential improvement to justify the
> expense and labor (considerable to get the rig to the bench and back).
> I think it is really difficult to enhance the K3's already incredible
> operation.
>
> But, as I said, this is in my instance (use and QTH).
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> .
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

I have 2K3s and the new K3S. The noise reduction function much better on K3S
73dsGeorge, WGF

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 8:35 AM, Jim Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have my "old K3" on QTH.com, priced at what it would take to get it.
Meanwhile it is still on my operating desk and if no one wants it, then
it will stay right here, hooked up and ready to roll. Who knows I might
try satellite again and a second K3 so I can run full duplex with my K3s
works for me. I do see some advantages to the K3s as it is a bit quieter
and I love the new audio and having the dual preamps is a plus as I work
a lot on meteor scatter.

73 Jim, W4ATK

On 9/6/2015 8:16 AM, Bill wrote:

dmb@lightstream.net

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

George,

Just to confirm -- you are referring to the Noise Reduction function that
is evoked by pressing the "NR" button; correct?

If so, why should it be ANY different at all from that of the K3, given
the same firmware revision level, in which case I would assume the exact
same algorithm is in place for both radios?

73,
Dale
WA8SRA

> I have 2K3s and the new K3S. Â The noise reduction function much better on
> K3S
> 73dsGeorge, WGF
>
>

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Grant Youngman

Re: K3: Any gain with a new synth?

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

That’s interesting. The K3 and K3S use the same DSP algorithm (same firmware) to accomplish NR. In what way do you perceive it being different? Are the settings (AGC threshold, etc) the same on the all of the radios?

Grant NQ5T

> On Sep 6, 2015, at 11:28 AM, george fritkin via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have 2K3s and the new K3S. The noise reduction function much better on K3S
> 73dsGeorge, WGF
>
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2015 8:35 AM, Jim Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>

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