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[K3] Audio circuit distortion

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Don Putnick-4

[K3] Audio circuit distortion

I watched the presentation again. Yes, Rob said the K3 was fixed in 2008. He also said the fix wasn't as good as he'd like. It didn't compete with the <0.3% distortion of the Icom 756 Pro III. So if you look at the distortion products at 44:20, would the average amateur (like me) be able to hear that?
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Scott Manthe-2

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

Given that a decent stereo has a total harmonic distortion of something
less than .05 percent, you might be able to "hear" those distortion
products, but what would that mean? Most amateur communication is done
surrounded by noise or immersed in noise, with imperfect signals,
adjusted imperfectly. So, does that 3/10ths of a percent distortion
product really mean anything on the air? I don't know, but I'm guessing
it doesn't mean much, but I'm not an audiophile, so I might be dead wrong.

73,
Scott, N9AA

On 7/23/13 3:15 PM, Don Putnick wrote:
> I watched the presentation again. Yes, Rob said the K3 was fixed in 2008. He also said the fix wasn't as good as he'd like. It didn't compete with the <0.3% distortion of the Icom 756 Pro III. So if you look at the distortion products at 44:20, would the average amateur (like me) be able to hear that?
>

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wayne burdick

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

Administrator

In reply to this post by Don Putnick-4

Don Putnick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I watched the presentation again. Yes, Rob said the K3 was fixed in 2008. He also said the fix wasn't as good as he'd like. It didn't compete with the <0.3% distortion of the Icom 756 Pro III. So if you look at the distortion products at 44:20, would the average amateur (like me) be able to hear that?

Short answer: No.

I have excellent hearing (I'm an acoustic guitarist and pianist in my "spare time"), and after we made all the updates to the K3, I burned quite a bit of lab time trying to hear what Rob was talking about. I tried *really* hard, as did my staff. We couldn't hear it. Rob is superhuman :)

True, it would be possible to reclaim a bit of extra AF headroom by using an AF amp that's heavily biased (class A). But 99% of operators would not benefit, the radio would draw an extra 200-300 mA with no signal in receive mode, and the chip(s) would need fairly extensive heat sinking. Doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.

(Disclaimer: I'm biased towards energy efficiency and portability.)

Wayne
N6KR

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Wes (N7WS)

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

Are you one of those guys who can hear the difference in speaker wire?

I had a guy working for me who was a musician and audiophile who claimed he
could tell the difference. I referred him to Bob Pease.

On 7/23/2013 1:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Don Putnick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I watched the presentation again. Yes, Rob said the K3 was fixed in 2008. He also said the fix wasn't as good as he'd like. It didn't compete with the <0.3% distortion of the Icom 756 Pro III. So if you look at the distortion products at 44:20, would the average amateur (like me) be able to hear that?
> Short answer: No.
>
> I have excellent hearing (I'm an acoustic guitarist and pianist in my "spare time"), and after we made all the updates to the K3, I burned quite a bit of lab time trying to hear what Rob was talking about. I tried *really* hard, as did my staff. We couldn't hear it. Rob is superhuman :)
>
> True, it would be possible to reclaim a bit of extra AF headroom by using an AF amp that's heavily biased (class A). But 99% of operators would not benefit, the radio would draw an extra 200-300 mA with no signal in receive mode, and the chip(s) would need fairly extensive heat sinking. Doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
>
> (Disclaimer: I'm biased towards energy efficiency and portability.)
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>

wayne burdick

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

Administrator

"Wes (N7WS)" wrote:

> Are you one of those guys who can hear the difference in speaker wire?

Don't I wish.

> I had a guy working for me who was a musician and audiophile who claimed he could tell the difference. I referred him to Bob Pease.

If you find another one, refer him to us. We'll give him the work bench that includes a crystal ball and divining rod.

Wayne
N6KR

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Doug Person-3

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

I once wired a guy's $20K audio system with RG8. He claimed it made all
the difference. He also claimed that vinyl was vastly superior to
CD's. I told him he had a wonderful imagination. The very best and
cleanest vinyl with a radial tracking arm turntable and a top of the
line cartridge could just barely make a 40db s/n. Digital audio can do
100db anytime. Many years of selling audio gear taught me about the
psychology of hearing. It takes an experienced ear to appreciate a
truly flat response. Most people prefer a very unbalanced equalization.
I got lots of chuckles switching between a $300 system and a $3000
system and having most people prefer the cheap setup.

Having designed loud speakers professionally (of which 1,000s were
sold), I am equipped with very refined and experienced hearing. Unless
you were listening to FM broadcast, how could you possibly appreciate a
.3% THD? I always assumed anything less than 1% was more than adequate
for our kind of communications. If we get down to this level of
performance, we'll need to work on the 50% or so of stations that only
concern themselves with output power - not audio quality. There is a
lot of dreadfully distorted signals on 20 meter SSB. Nothing beats
working a station that is s9+20 and barely understandable because he has
compression and mic gain pushed up so he sees 1500 watts on his output
meter all the time.

So, IMHO, the K3 has absolutely splendid audio when I have a chance to
work another station whose audio is actually adjusted correctly. It
amazes me that most rigs today have a monitor function. Must be the
most unused feature of all time.

73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 7/23/2013 2:52 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:

> Are you one of those guys who can hear the difference in speaker wire?
>
> I had a guy working for me who was a musician and audiophile who
> claimed he could tell the difference. I referred him to Bob Pease.
>
>
> On 7/23/2013 1:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Don Putnick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I watched the presentation again. Yes, Rob said the K3 was fixed in
>>> 2008. He also said the fix wasn't as good as he'd like. It didn't
>>> compete with the <0.3% distortion of the Icom 756 Pro III. So if you
>>> look at the distortion products at 44:20, would the average amateur
>>> (like me) be able to hear that?
>> Short answer: No.
>>
>> I have excellent hearing (I'm an acoustic guitarist and pianist in my
>> "spare time"), and after we made all the updates to the K3, I burned
>> quite a bit of lab time trying to hear what Rob was talking about. I
>> tried *really* hard, as did my staff. We couldn't hear it. Rob is
>> superhuman :)
>>
>> True, it would be possible to reclaim a bit of extra AF headroom by
>> using an AF amp that's heavily biased (class A). But 99% of operators
>> would not benefit, the radio would draw an extra 200-300 mA with no
>> signal in receive mode, and the chip(s) would need fairly extensive
>> heat sinking. Doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
>>
>> (Disclaimer: I'm biased towards energy efficiency and portability.)
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

wb4jfi

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

I use oxygen-depleted speaker wire for all my wire antennas. It's the
reason why I can work stations that others can't even hear. Occasionally,
those stations are even using RF, but most of the time I can directly hear
the key clicks from their key disturbing the overly-oxygenated air at the
key gap. I DO have problems when a ham is using an electronic keyer, and
must rely on receiving the actual RF signal in those cases.

What, you call me an air-head? My brain has been oxygen-depleted for years,
and I LIKE IT!
73, Terry, WB4JFI

-----Original Message-----
From: Wes (N7WS)
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:52 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion

Are you one of those guys who can hear the difference in speaker wire?

I had a guy working for me who was a musician and audiophile who claimed he
could tell the difference. I referred him to Bob Pease.

On 7/23/2013 1:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Don Putnick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I watched the presentation again. Yes, Rob said the K3 was fixed in 2008.
>> He also said the fix wasn't as good as he'd like. It didn't compete with
>> the <0.3% distortion of the Icom 756 Pro III. So if you look at the
>> distortion products at 44:20, would the average amateur (like me) be able
>> to hear that?
> Short answer: No.
>
> I have excellent hearing (I'm an acoustic guitarist and pianist in my
> "spare time"), and after we made all the updates to the K3, I burned quite
> a bit of lab time trying to hear what Rob was talking about. I tried
> *really* hard, as did my staff. We couldn't hear it. Rob is superhuman :)
>
> True, it would be possible to reclaim a bit of extra AF headroom by using
> an AF amp that's heavily biased (class A). But 99% of operators would not
> benefit, the radio would draw an extra 200-300 mA with no signal in
> receive mode, and the chip(s) would need fairly extensive heat sinking.
> Doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
>
> (Disclaimer: I'm biased towards energy efficiency and portability.)
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>

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bhemmis

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

Now they are even selling high end FUSES for your audio gear !
PT Barnum was right ...

Brian K3USC

On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And there are those who spend hundreds of dollars on a-c power cords for
> their audio systems that have been cryogenically treated to "align the
> copper crystals to avoid turbulence in the a-c power flowing through the
> cord from the wall outlet".
>
> The problem is that human perception determines satisfaction, and perception
> is not always based on objective data.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:25 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion
>
> I once wired a guy's $20K audio system with RG8. He claimed it made all the
> difference. He also claimed that vinyl was vastly superior to CD's. I told
> him he had a wonderful imagination. The very best and cleanest vinyl with a
> radial tracking arm turntable and a top of the line cartridge could just
> barely make a 40db s/n. Digital audio can do 100db anytime. Many years of
> selling audio gear taught me about the psychology of hearing. It takes an
> experienced ear to appreciate a truly flat response. Most people prefer a
> very unbalanced equalization.
> I got lots of chuckles switching between a $300 system and a $3000 system
> and having most people prefer the cheap setup.
>
> Having designed loud speakers professionally (of which 1,000s were sold), I
> am equipped with very refined and experienced hearing. Unless you were
> listening to FM broadcast, how could you possibly appreciate a .3% THD? I
> always assumed anything less than 1% was more than adequate for our kind of
> communications. If we get down to this level of performance, we'll need to
> work on the 50% or so of stations that only concern themselves with output
> power - not audio quality. There is a lot of dreadfully distorted signals
> on 20 meter SSB. Nothing beats working a station that is s9+20 and barely
> understandable because he has compression and mic gain pushed up so he sees
> 1500 watts on his output meter all the time.
>
> So, IMHO, the K3 has absolutely splendid audio when I have a chance to work
> another station whose audio is actually adjusted correctly. It amazes me
> that most rigs today have a monitor function. Must be the most unused
> feature of all time.
>
> 73, Doug -- K0DXV
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

wayne burdick

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

Administrator

Brian Hemmis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Now they are even selling high end FUSES for your audio gear !
> PT Barnum was right ...
>
> Brian K3USC

One of my best memories is from when I was about 9 years old and first heard a local radio station using nothing but a germanium diode and a high-Z earphone. I repeat the experiment every so often, just to stay grounded.

Wayne
N6KR

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George Danner

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

One of the Monster Wire/Oxygen Free wire guys!
I've had a few of those as well - Incidentally they will never participate
in an A/B test!
George
AI4VZ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wayne Burdick" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 5:22 PM
To: "Wes (N7WS)" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion

"Wes (N7WS)" wrote:

> Are you one of those guys who can hear the difference in speaker wire?

Don't I wish.

> I had a guy working for me who was a musician and audiophile who claimed
> he could tell the difference. I referred him to Bob Pease.

If you find another one, refer him to us. We'll give him the work bench that
includes a crystal ball and divining rod.

Wayne
N6KR

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Harlan Sherriff

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Don Putnick-4

Wayne
The radio wouldn't work unless you were grounded... ;)

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Brian Hemmis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Now they are even selling high end FUSES for your audio gear !
>> PT Barnum was right ...
>>
>> Brian K3USC
>
>
>One of my best memories is from when I was about 9 years old and first heard a local radio station using nothing but a germanium diode and a high-Z earphone. I repeat the experiment every so often, just to stay grounded.
>
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Wes (N7WS)

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by bhemmis

Speaking of P.T. Barnum, here are his offspring:
http://www.revolutionpower.com/o/Oyaide/

I'll bet that the people who buy this crap would be aghast to know that the
power company has supplied their AC power through oxidized aluminum wire and
some of those electrons came from nuclear power plants and are radioactive!!!.

On 7/23/2013 2:50 PM, Brian Hemmis wrote:

> Now they are even selling high end FUSES for your audio gear !
> PT Barnum was right ...
>
> Brian K3USC
>
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> And there are those who spend hundreds of dollars on a-c power cords for
>> their audio systems that have been cryogenically treated to "align the
>> copper crystals to avoid turbulence in the a-c power flowing through the
>> cord from the wall outlet".
>>
>> The problem is that human perception determines satisfaction, and perception
>> is not always based on objective data.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:25 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion
>>
>> I once wired a guy's $20K audio system with RG8. He claimed it made all the
>> difference. He also claimed that vinyl was vastly superior to CD's. I told
>> him he had a wonderful imagination. The very best and cleanest vinyl with a
>> radial tracking arm turntable and a top of the line cartridge could just
>> barely make a 40db s/n. Digital audio can do 100db anytime. Many years of
>> selling audio gear taught me about the psychology of hearing. It takes an
>> experienced ear to appreciate a truly flat response. Most people prefer a
>> very unbalanced equalization.
>> I got lots of chuckles switching between a $300 system and a $3000 system
>> and having most people prefer the cheap setup.
>>
>> Having designed loud speakers professionally (of which 1,000s were sold), I
>> am equipped with very refined and experienced hearing. Unless you were
>> listening to FM broadcast, how could you possibly appreciate a .3% THD? I
>> always assumed anything less than 1% was more than adequate for our kind of
>> communications. If we get down to this level of performance, we'll need to
>> work on the 50% or so of stations that only concern themselves with output
>> power - not audio quality. There is a lot of dreadfully distorted signals
>> on 20 meter SSB. Nothing beats working a station that is s9+20 and barely
>> understandable because he has compression and mic gain pushed up so he sees
>> 1500 watts on his output meter all the time.
>>
>> So, IMHO, the K3 has absolutely splendid audio when I have a chance to work
>> another station whose audio is actually adjusted correctly. It amazes me
>> that most rigs today have a monitor function. Must be the most unused
>> feature of all time.
>>
>> 73, Doug -- K0DXV

Wes (N7WS)

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Like me, he's retired now and a he's one of group of we retirees who get
together once a month for lunch. I'll pass along your offer.

On 7/23/2013 2:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> "Wes (N7WS)" wrote:
>
>> Are you one of those guys who can hear the difference in speaker wire?
> Don't I wish.
>
>
>> I had a guy working for me who was a musician and audiophile who claimed he could tell the difference. I referred him to Bob Pease.
> If you find another one, refer him to us. We'll give him the work bench that includes a crystal ball and divining rod.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR

Frank Precissi

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

You have got to be kidding me:

http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Li50EXs+Power+Cable+1.8m/151/

http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Tunami+GPX-R+004+Power+Cable/274/

Its to the point where it blurs the line between over-the-top serious and a
joke. $500 power cable to feed mediocre caps and transformers in an amp.

-Frank
KG6EYC

On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Wes (N7WS) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Speaking of P.T. Barnum, here are his offspring:
> http://www.revolutionpower.**com/o/Oyaide/<http://www.revolutionpower.com/o/Oyaide/>
>
> I'll bet that the people who buy this crap would be aghast to know that
> the power company has supplied their AC power through oxidized aluminum
> wire and some of those electrons came from nuclear power plants and are
> radioactive!!!.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/23/2013 2:50 PM, Brian Hemmis wrote:
>
>> Now they are even selling high end FUSES for your audio gear !
>> PT Barnum was right ...
>>
>> Brian K3USC
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> And there are those who spend hundreds of dollars on a-c power cords for
>>> their audio systems that have been cryogenically treated to "align the
>>> copper crystals to avoid turbulence in the a-c power flowing through the
>>> cord from the wall outlet".
>>>
>>> The problem is that human perception determines satisfaction, and
>>> perception
>>> is not always based on objective data.
>>>
>>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email].**net<[hidden email]>
>>> [mailto:elecraft-bounces@**mailman.qth.net<[hidden email]>]
>>> On Behalf Of Doug Person
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:25 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion
>>>
>>> I once wired a guy's $20K audio system with RG8. He claimed it made all
>>> the
>>> difference. He also claimed that vinyl was vastly superior to CD's. I
>>> told
>>> him he had a wonderful imagination. The very best and cleanest vinyl
>>> with a
>>> radial tracking arm turntable and a top of the line cartridge could just
>>> barely make a 40db s/n. Digital audio can do 100db anytime. Many years
>>> of
>>> selling audio gear taught me about the psychology of hearing. It takes
>>> an
>>> experienced ear to appreciate a truly flat response. Most people prefer a
>>> very unbalanced equalization.
>>> I got lots of chuckles switching between a $300 system and a $3000 system
>>> and having most people prefer the cheap setup.
>>>
>>> Having designed loud speakers professionally (of which 1,000s were
>>> sold), I
>>> am equipped with very refined and experienced hearing. Unless you were
>>> listening to FM broadcast, how could you possibly appreciate a .3% THD?
>>> I
>>> always assumed anything less than 1% was more than adequate for our kind
>>> of
>>> communications. If we get down to this level of performance, we'll need
>>> to
>>> work on the 50% or so of stations that only concern themselves with
>>> output
>>> power - not audio quality. There is a lot of dreadfully distorted
>>> signals
>>> on 20 meter SSB. Nothing beats working a station that is s9+20 and
>>> barely
>>> understandable because he has compression and mic gain pushed up so he
>>> sees
>>> 1500 watts on his output meter all the time.
>>>
>>> So, IMHO, the K3 has absolutely splendid audio when I have a chance to
>>> work
>>> another station whose audio is actually adjusted correctly. It amazes me
>>> that most rigs today have a monitor function. Must be the most unused
>>> feature of all time.
>>>
>>> 73, Doug -- K0DXV
>>>
>>
> ______________________________**______________________________**__
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecraft<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htm<http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
> Post: mailto:[hidden email].**net <[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
CW: NAQCC #6554 | SKCC #10435 | FISTS #16155 | SOC #1038 | FP #3186
Digital: FHC #4224 | 30MDG #6370 | DMC #5698
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David Gilbert

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

So very true. Three or four years ago a midwest ham called me during
the NAQP SSB contest with an almost unreadable S9+10 signal. I managed
to decipher enough of his callsign to return to him, and I told him he
needed to back off his mic gain. He did and it helped, and by the time
I got him to where he was perfectly readable and not distorting any
worse than anyone else he was down to about S8. I told him he should
leave it there, but I'll bet $100 he didn't.

It's a wonder some manufacturer hasn't put out a rig with knobs that go
up to 11.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 7/23/2013 2:25 PM, Doug Person wrote:

> Unless you were listening to FM broadcast, how could you possibly
> appreciate a .3% THD? I always assumed anything less than 1% was more
> than adequate for our kind of communications. If we get down to this
> level of performance, we'll need to work on the 50% or so of stations
> that only concern themselves with output power - not audio quality.
> There is a lot of dreadfully distorted signals on 20 meter SSB.
> Nothing beats working a station that is s9+20 and barely
> understandable because he has compression and mic gain pushed up so he
> sees 1500 watts on his output meter all the time.
>
>
> 73, Doug -- K0DXV

David Gilbert

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Doug Person-3

Or how about this. You can buy mattresses with magnets installed in
them for "magneto-therapy" while you sleep, and you can also buy totally
non-ferrous mattresses (at outrageous prices) so that they won't harm
your health by distorting the earth's natural magnetic field.

No wonder the aliens have decided we are worth visiting ...

73,
Dave AB7E

On 7/23/2013 2:47 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

David Gilbert

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)

I have to admit that I didn't realize mechanical vibrations at the wall
socket were such a problem.

http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+WPC-Z+Faceplate/58/ ($249.00)

Actually, I respect this company for it's audacity and for the economic
Darwinism it promotes. ;)

73,
Dave AB7E

On 7/23/2013 3:07 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote:

> Speaking of P.T. Barnum, here are his offspring:
> http://www.revolutionpower.com/o/Oyaide/
>
> I'll bet that the people who buy this crap would be aghast to know
> that the power company has supplied their AC power through oxidized
> aluminum wire and some of those electrons came from nuclear power
> plants and are radioactive!!!.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/23/2013 2:50 PM, Brian Hemmis wrote:
>> Now they are even selling high end FUSES for your audio gear !
>> PT Barnum was right ...
>>
>> Brian K3USC
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> And there are those who spend hundreds of dollars on a-c power cords
>>> for
>>> their audio systems that have been cryogenically treated to "align the
>>> copper crystals to avoid turbulence in the a-c power flowing through
>>> the
>>> cord from the wall outlet".
>>>
>>> The problem is that human perception determines satisfaction, and
>>> perception
>>> is not always based on objective data.
>>>
>>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Doug Person
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 2:25 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion
>>>
>>> I once wired a guy's $20K audio system with RG8. He claimed it made
>>> all the
>>> difference. He also claimed that vinyl was vastly superior to
>>> CD's. I told
>>> him he had a wonderful imagination. The very best and cleanest
>>> vinyl with a
>>> radial tracking arm turntable and a top of the line cartridge could
>>> just
>>> barely make a 40db s/n. Digital audio can do 100db anytime. Many
>>> years of
>>> selling audio gear taught me about the psychology of hearing. It
>>> takes an
>>> experienced ear to appreciate a truly flat response. Most people
>>> prefer a
>>> very unbalanced equalization.
>>> I got lots of chuckles switching between a $300 system and a $3000
>>> system
>>> and having most people prefer the cheap setup.
>>>
>>> Having designed loud speakers professionally (of which 1,000s were
>>> sold), I
>>> am equipped with very refined and experienced hearing. Unless you were
>>> listening to FM broadcast, how could you possibly appreciate a .3%
>>> THD? I
>>> always assumed anything less than 1% was more than adequate for our
>>> kind of
>>> communications. If we get down to this level of performance, we'll
>>> need to
>>> work on the 50% or so of stations that only concern themselves with
>>> output
>>> power - not audio quality. There is a lot of dreadfully distorted
>>> signals
>>> on 20 meter SSB. Nothing beats working a station that is s9+20 and
>>> barely
>>> understandable because he has compression and mic gain pushed up so
>>> he sees
>>> 1500 watts on his output meter all the time.
>>>
>>> So, IMHO, the K3 has absolutely splendid audio when I have a chance
>>> to work
>>> another station whose audio is actually adjusted correctly. It
>>> amazes me
>>> that most rigs today have a monitor function. Must be the most unused
>>> feature of all time.
>>>
>>> 73, Doug -- K0DXV
>
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David Christ

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by Frank Precissi

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. How ignorant their customers must be. I really enjoyed the 4 for $115 covers for your wall outlets that would keep RFI out of the wiring. Wonder if they would cure RF feedback :-). So much for the laws of physics.

<http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/ISOCLEAN+RF+Isolators+AC+Outlet+Caps/244/>

The people who write the ad copy for this stuff probably have second jobs writing political ads.

David K0LUM

On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:20 PM, Frank Precissi wrote:

> You have got to be kidding me:
>
> http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Li50EXs+Power+Cable+1.8m/151/
>
> http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Tunami+GPX-R+004+Power+Cable/274/
>
> Its to the point where it blurs the line between over-the-top serious and a
> joke. $500 power cable to feed mediocre caps and transformers in an amp.
>
> -Frank
> KG6EYC
>
>

KD8NNU

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

I think the rain and fog has gone to their heads. LOL

~73
Don
KD8NNU
-.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..-
-----Original Message-----
From: David Christ
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:39 PM
To: Elecraft Group
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Audio circuit distortion

I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. How ignorant their customers must
be. I really enjoyed the 4 for $115 covers for your wall outlets that would
keep RFI out of the wiring. Wonder if they would cure RF feedback :-). So
much for the laws of physics.

<http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/ISOCLEAN+RF+Isolators+AC+Outlet+Caps/244/>

The people who write the ad copy for this stuff probably have second jobs
writing political ads.

David K0LUM

On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:20 PM, Frank Precissi wrote:

> You have got to be kidding me:
>
> http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Li50EXs+Power+Cable+1.8m/151/
>
> http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Tunami+GPX-R+004+Power+Cable/274/
>
> Its to the point where it blurs the line between over-the-top serious and
> a
> joke. $500 power cable to feed mediocre caps and transformers in an amp.
>
> -Frank
> KG6EYC
>
>

"Carl, KØTNT"

Re: [K3] Audio circuit distortion

In reply to this post by David Christ

I had an industrial electronics distributor swear to me that his speaker
cables needed to be "broken in", sounded too "bright" until they had
been used for a week. They also had to be very large because of the AC
Skin Effect. Thin wires just didn't sound good.
One morning, as a joke, I came into his office with my jumper cables and
said, "Mitch, I have your new speaker cables right here!" He actually
thought about it for a couple of seconds.
Never could convince him that he was chasing ghosts. But the laughs were
worth it.

73, Carl K0TNT

On 7/23/2013 6:39 PM, David Christ wrote:

> I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. How ignorant their customers must be. I really enjoyed the 4 for $115 covers for your wall outlets that would keep RFI out of the wiring. Wonder if they would cure RF feedback :-). So much for the laws of physics.
>
> <http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/ISOCLEAN+RF+Isolators+AC+Outlet+Caps/244/>
>
> The people who write the ad copy for this stuff probably have second jobs writing political ads.
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2013, at 5:20 PM, Frank Precissi wrote:
>
>> You have got to be kidding me:
>>
>> http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Li50EXs+Power+Cable+1.8m/151/
>>
>> http://www.revolutionpower.com/p/Oyaide+Tunami+GPX-R+004+Power+Cable/274/
>>
>> Its to the point where it blurs the line between over-the-top serious and a
>> joke. $500 power cable to feed mediocre caps and transformers in an amp.
>>
>> -Frank
>> KG6EYC
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>