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K4MWB@ARRL.net

K3 Audio

I’ve found the audio with narrow filtering is much “clearer” to my ears (using a Heil headset) on my Kenwood TS480 than on my K3. I spoke with another person who owns both radios and he finds the Kenwood audio crisper, less “mushy.” My K3 is a great radio, but I’d sure like to hear better. Is there some adjustment I’m missing?
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Audio

> Is there some adjustment I’m missing?

Try adjusting the center frequency (shift) or decreasing the Low Cut
(FL) and High Cut (FH) by similar amounts. In general, the important
spectrum for speech is 400 - 2200 Hz while simply "dialing down" the
width causes the Low Cut to raise too quickly.

The K3/K3S nominal 2.8 KHz bandwidth is set at 100 - 2900 (FC = 1500).
Simply dialing the width down to 1.8 KHz results in a passband of
600 - 2400 Hz (FC remains 1500 Hz). Adjusting FC down to 1250 or 1300
Hz will greatly improve the "clarity" of SSB.

In addition, the K3 has a flat audio response while most rigs have a
slight raising characteristic (about 3 dB/octave). You can emulate
that response using the RX EQ. Set 0.05 = -16, 0.10= -16, 0.20= -6,
0.40= 0, 0.80= +3, 1.60= +6, 2.40= +8, 3.20= +9 and the audio will
emulate "other rigs". You can also set 3.20 to -6 to minimize high
frequency noise.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/18/2017 8:07 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I’ve found the audio with narrow filtering is much “clearer” to my ears (using a Heil headset) on my Kenwood TS480 than on my K3. I spoke with another person who owns both radios and he finds the Kenwood audio crisper, less “mushy.” My K3 is a great radio, but I’d sure like to hear better. Is there some adjustment I’m missing?
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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 Audio

I generally agree with Joe's advice, but will differ here. Joe is right
that full bandwidth (with the 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filter) is 2.8 kHz, but
optimum spectrum for speech intelligibility with this bandwidth limit is
400 Hz to 3.2 kHz. This is fundamental stuff -- Bell Labs, probably the
premier engineering institution on the planet back then, figured it out
at least 100 years ago, and lots of research in the years since has
confirmed it.

I own 1.8 kHz roofing filters, but find them too narrow for my
ear-brain. We're all different, so YMMV. I have a 2.1 kHz filter in one
of my K3s, and like it. I rarely set my IF narrower than 2 kHz for SSB.

As Joe has noted, RXEQ can be adjusted to tilt the response a bit. If
like many of us old guys you have much hearing loss, you might want to
boost the top octave band in RXEQ by 3 dB.

There are two other issues at play here. First, the K3 has a pretty good
but pretty small speaker. Second, chief engineer Wayne Burdick has
strong roots in backpacking, so his audio stages tend to be a bit
current starved.

73, Jim K9YC

On 10/18/2017 5:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > Is there some adjustment I’m missing?
>
> Try adjusting the center frequency (shift) or decreasing the Low Cut
> (FL) and High Cut (FH) by similar amounts. In general, the important
> spectrum for speech is 400 - 2200 Hz while simply "dialing down" the
> width causes the Low Cut to raise too quickly.
>
> The K3/K3S nominal 2.8 KHz bandwidth is set at 100 - 2900 (FC = 1500).
> Simply dialing the width down to 1.8 KHz results in a passband of
> 600 - 2400 Hz (FC remains 1500 Hz). Adjusting FC down to 1250 or 1300
> Hz will greatly improve the "clarity" of SSB.
>
> In addition, the K3 has a flat audio response while most rigs have a
> slight raising characteristic (about 3 dB/octave). You can emulate
> that response using the RX EQ. Set 0.05 = -16, 0.10= -16, 0.20= -6,
> 0.40= 0, 0.80= +3, 1.60= +6, 2.40= +8, 3.20= +9 and the audio will
> emulate "other rigs". You can also set 3.20 to -6 to minimize high
> frequency noise.

K4MWB

Re: K3 Audio

Joe and Jim, thanks for the equalization advice. I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd
assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and suppressing the higher frequencies
would help. I'll tinker with it.

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Audio

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On 10/18/2017 9:03 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> but optimum spectrum for speech intelligibility with this bandwidth
> limit is 400 Hz to 3.2 kHz.

However, the K3 defaults to 100 - 2900 Hz as I pointed out.

It would be handy if SSB defaulted to FL=0.40 (or FL=0.30) instead of
FC=1.50 as that would avoid the need to adjust FC when "dialing in" a
narrow filer. Most of the older generation of rigs set the carrier
offset (i.e., FL) when selecting filters rather than center frequency.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/18/2017 9:03 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> I generally agree with Joe's advice, but will differ here. Joe is right
> that full bandwidth (with the 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filter) is 2.8 kHz, but
> optimum spectrum for speech intelligibility with this bandwidth limit is
> 400 Hz to 3.2 kHz. This is fundamental stuff -- Bell Labs, probably the
> premier engineering institution on the planet back then, figured it out
> at least 100 years ago, and lots of research in the years since has
> confirmed it.
>
> I own 1.8 kHz roofing filters, but find them too narrow for my
> ear-brain. We're all different, so YMMV. I have a 2.1 kHz filter in one
> of my K3s, and like it. I rarely set my IF narrower than 2 kHz for SSB.
>
> As Joe has noted, RXEQ can be adjusted to tilt the response a bit. If
> like many of us old guys you have much hearing loss, you might want to
> boost the top octave band in RXEQ by 3 dB.
>
> There are two other issues at play here. First, the K3 has a pretty good
> but pretty small speaker. Second, chief engineer Wayne Burdick has
> strong roots in backpacking, so his audio stages tend to be a bit
> current starved.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 10/18/2017 5:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>> > Is there some adjustment I’m missing?
>>
>> Try adjusting the center frequency (shift) or decreasing the Low Cut
>> (FL) and High Cut (FH) by similar amounts. In general, the important
>> spectrum for speech is 400 - 2200 Hz while simply "dialing down" the
>> width causes the Low Cut to raise too quickly.
>>
>> The K3/K3S nominal 2.8 KHz bandwidth is set at 100 - 2900 (FC = 1500).
>> Simply dialing the width down to 1.8 KHz results in a passband of
>> 600 - 2400 Hz (FC remains 1500 Hz). Adjusting FC down to 1250 or 1300
>> Hz will greatly improve the "clarity" of SSB.
>>
>> In addition, the K3 has a flat audio response while most rigs have a
>> slight raising characteristic (about 3 dB/octave). You can emulate
>> that response using the RX EQ. Set 0.05 = -16, 0.10= -16, 0.20= -6,
>> 0.40= 0, 0.80= +3, 1.60= +6, 2.40= +8, 3.20= +9 and the audio will
>> emulate "other rigs". You can also set 3.20 to -6 to minimize high
>> frequency noise.
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Audio

In reply to this post by K4MWB

On 10/18/2017 9:28 PM, K4MWB wrote:
> I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and
> suppressing the higher frequencies would help.

With typical filter widths, there is no real value to RX EQ on CW. I
tend to leave 0.40 and 0.80 flat and set 0.05, 0.10, 2.40, 3.20 to
-16. 0.20 and 1.60 are either flat or a slight (-3) roll off.

The nice thing about the K3 is that it will store separate RX EQ for
CW and SSB so setting one will not mess up the other mode.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/18/2017 9:28 PM, K4MWB wrote:

> Joe and Jim, thanks for the equalization advice. I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd
> assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and suppressing the higher frequencies
> would help. I'll tinker with it.
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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k6dgw

Re: K3 Audio

In reply to this post by K4MWB

Ummm ... by all means tinker with it. We are all different. My hearing
is pretty well shot, SSB in a contest or DX pile is a non-starter and I
stay on CW most of the time. It peaks about 600 Hz, which is my pitch
frequency, and I've tried surrounding it with RX EQ settings to enhance
it. I may be doing something wrong here [that has occasionally happened
before], but it doesn't seem to work well. The APF does, it is touchy
to get set up, and I only use it occasionally, but the RX EQ that looks
like the response of my hearing aids seems to work best, regardless of
my DSP BW/HI-LO CUT settings. YMMV and probably will.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/18/2017 6:28 PM, K4MWB wrote:

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 Audio

In reply to this post by K4MWB@ARRL.net

Are you using the WIDTH and SHIFT on SSB?
I would suggest that you will find better success using HI CUT and LO
CUT for SSB.
The voice audio needs some information in the 300 to 400 Hz region for
clarity, so the LO CUT must be set in the 200 to 400 Hz range to keep
intelligibility.
The HI CUT can be reduced to as much as 1500 Hz and still maintain
intelligibility, but at such extremes, the characteristics of the voice
will be lost. It is best if the HI CUT is placed at 2800 for good
recognition of the voice. Reduce that frequency if there is
interference (QRM) on the high frequency side.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/18/2017 8:07 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 Audio

On 10/18/2017 9:03 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> The voice audio needs some information in the 300 to 400 Hz region for
> clarity, so the LO CUT must be set in the 200 to 400 Hz range to keep
> intelligibility.

I disagree. Audio below about 400 Hz makes VERY little contribution to
speech intelligibility. The 1 kHz, 2 kHz, and 4 kHz octave bands are
where the action is. Sound below 400 Hz provides "body" to the voice and
"thickens" it. It can more pleasing to listen to, but it also burns
transmitter power. So if the goal is communications, power is better
devoted to those higher bands.

73, Jim K9YC

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Bill Clarke

Re: K3 Audio

Once again the good/bad/indifferent K3 audio surfaces. I do not get it -
never have. The K3 is so audio customizable that it should be pleasing
to nearly every user (I say nearly, as there are some whom will never be
happy). To make a long story short, here is link to my current settings.
Of course, they are my settings and may not please everyone.

****

**The following are the settings I am /_currently_/ using on 40, 75, 160
for armchair copy (meaning very reduced hiss, no ANF warbling, and
pleasing listening). My RX audio goes through amplified Behringer studio
speakers with bass/treble adjustments.
**

**

Note: I often make RX Eq changes depending upon mood, attitude, boredom,
and allergies/colds - as needed.

The speaker adjustments: bass and treble both set to the middle notch

K3 settings:

  (Config Menu):
     AGC DCY -    NORM
     AGC HLD - 0
     AGC PLS -    NORM
     AGC SLP -    4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the
Automatic Notch Filter)
     AGC THR -   12
     AGC F -      120
     AGC S -        20
     Shift -          1.25
     Width -        2.7
  (front panel):
     RF Gain -   90 (sometimes less)
     ATT -           ON
  (Menu):
     RX EQ           1        -2
                          2        0
                          3        +9
                          4        +12
                        5        +11
                        6        +14
                          7        +7
                        8        -16

Be sure to read the "Noisy K3" section on http://www.w3fpr.com/ -
excellent information!

The disclaimer: Your mileage for the above settings may (will) vary -
depending upon speaker selection, personal preferences, and your hearing
acuity.

Note: I made all of my settings by hand, using the K3 menus - thus
affording instant gratification. I used to do all the EQ stuff with
outboard devices. With the advent of my K3, all those devices took a
one-way ride to a hamfest.

Bill W2BLC

**

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 Audio

> Shift - 1.25
> Width - 2.7

This places the lower cutoff at DC! It is very wasteful and susceptible
to significant hum/buzz. Far better to use FL=0.30 and FH=3.00 for a
bandwidth of 3 KHz and reduce FH as needed based on QRM.

> RX EQ 1 -2
> 2 0
> 3 +9
> 4 +12
> 5 +11
> 6 +14
> 7 +7
> 8 -16

Wayne and Lyle have repeatedly warned against using excessive boost in
RXEQ. One would be far better to reduce all values by 10 to 12 dB as
this will help prevent over driving the audio amplifiers, etc.

This has the same characteristic without the issues of over driving the
audio amplifier.

RX EQ 1 -16
2 -12
3 -3
4 0
5 0
6 +2
7 -5
8 -16

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 10/19/2017 6:25 AM, Bill wrote:

> Once again the good/bad/indifferent K3 audio surfaces. I do not get it -
> never have. The K3 is so audio customizable that it should be pleasing
> to nearly every user (I say nearly, as there are some whom will never be
> happy). To make a long story short, here is link to my current settings.
> Of course, they are my settings and may not please everyone.
>
> ****
>
> **The following are the settings I am /_currently_/ using on 40, 75, 160
> for armchair copy (meaning very reduced hiss, no ANF warbling, and
> pleasing listening). My RX audio goes through amplified Behringer studio
> speakers with bass/treble adjustments.
> **
>
> **
>
> Note: I often make RX Eq changes depending upon mood, attitude, boredom,
> and allergies/colds - as needed.
>
> The speaker adjustments: bass and treble both set to the middle notch
>
> K3 settings:
>
>   (Config Menu):
>      AGC DCY -    NORM
>      AGC HLD - 0
>      AGC PLS -    NORM
>      AGC SLP -    4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the
> Automatic Notch Filter)
>      AGC THR -   12
>      AGC F -      120
>      AGC S -        20
>      Shift -          1.25
>      Width -        2.7
>   (front panel):
>      RF Gain -   90 (sometimes less)
>      ATT -           ON
>   (Menu):
>      RX EQ           1        -2
>                           2        0
>                           3        +9
>                           4        +12
>                         5        +11
>                         6        +14
>                           7        +7
>                         8        -16
>
> Be sure to read the "Noisy K3" section on http://www.w3fpr.com/ -
> excellent information!
>
> The disclaimer: Your mileage for the above settings may (will) vary -
> depending upon speaker selection, personal preferences, and your hearing
> acuity.
>
> Note: I made all of my settings by hand, using the K3 menus - thus
> affording instant gratification. I used to do all the EQ stuff with
> outboard devices. With the advent of my K3, all those devices took a
> one-way ride to a hamfest.
>
> Bill W2BLC
>
> **
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill Clarke

Re: K3 Audio

Nice! I am running as you suggested and it sounds good.

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 Audio

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

YES, YES, YES!

Jim K9YC

On 10/19/2017 4:52 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> Wayne and Lyle have repeatedly warned against using excessive boost in
> RXEQ. One would be far better to reduce all values by 10 to 12 dB as
> this will help prevent over driving the audio amplifiers, etc.
>
> This has the same characteristic without the issues of over driving the
> audio amplifier.
>
>       RX EQ           1        -16
>                       2        -12
>                       3        -3
>                       4         0
>                       5         0
>                       6        +2
>                       7        -5

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 Audio

I will amplify Jim's and Wayne's and Lyle's comment regarding audio,
attenuation of a frequency or frequencies produces far superior results
to boosting a given frequency or frequencies. We have become
accustomed to "boost this" and "boost that" when in fact attenuate this
and attenuate that is the better option. One just has to understand
the spectral components of audio to figure out how "this and that" applies.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 10/19/2017 11:29 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> YES, YES, YES!
>
> Jim K9YC
>
> On 10/19/2017 4:52 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> Wayne and Lyle have repeatedly warned against using excessive boost in
>> RXEQ. One would be far better to reduce all values by 10 to 12 dB as
>> this will help prevent over driving the audio amplifiers, etc.
>>
>> This has the same characteristic without the issues of over driving the
>> audio amplifier.
>>
>>       RX EQ           1        -16
>>                       2        -12
>>                       3        -3
>>                       4         0
>>                       5         0
>>                       6        +2
>>                       7        -5
>