K3 Beta Firmware
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Thanks for your response Dave and Don, but I do not agree. I see too many
complaints of one sort or another on the reflector about problems with beta releases. I don't like computers and use them minimally and thus have no interest in loading in a update to experiment with, then reverting back to earlier version in case of problems -- that is what beta testers enjoy doing. And I suspect there are quite a few guys like me. If everyone is supposed to load the beta releases, what is the purpose of a regular release? And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May that could be issued as the new production release? 73, Lee (K9CM) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I take a wait and see attitude and I update my firmware once every 6 months
or so. My original firmware worked quite well and I was actually pleased with the radio's performance before upgrading anything. Of course, there are new features and enhancements in new releases, but they are not mandatory by any means. If you don't have a problem, don't upgrade. 73, Bob W5OV -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lee Trout Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:31 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware Thanks for your response Dave and Don, but I do not agree. I see too many complaints of one sort or another on the reflector about problems with beta releases. I don't like computers and use them minimally and thus have no interest in loading in a update to experiment with, then reverting back to earlier version in case of problems -- that is what beta testers enjoy doing. And I suspect there are quite a few guys like me. If everyone is supposed to load the beta releases, what is the purpose of a regular release? And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May that could be issued as the new production release? 73, Lee (K9CM) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
Lee,
In my experience, there have been many beta releases that could have been named as a production release. My guess is that in the 'busy-ness' of the summer and autumn with vacations and all (Wayne and Lyle do need some R & R), none were selected. The creation of a formal production release requires paperwork to be processed for the manufacturing end of the business, so it is more complex than just 'naming' it a production release. The world of K3 firmware is vastly different than the computer world of operating system upgrades. May I suggest you try the new 3.44 release and call it your 'personal release level' to take advantage of the added functions. You can always back-level easily if you have a problem. Alternately, monitor the reflector here for a week or so, and any problems will be revealed by those already using it. There have been no problems found and reported by the Field Test group, so I expect few problems from other users. OTOH, if you are satisfied with the functions available in your current firmware, then why upgrade? No one will force you to upgrade. The only consequence is if you report a problem that has been fixed in a subsequent release (either production or beta), you will simply be encouraged to upgrade in order to fix that problem. 73, Don W3FPR Lee Trout wrote: > <snip> > > And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May > that could be issued as the new production release? > > 73, Lee (K9CM) > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
My two cents on this topic
I have been testing all the FW beta versions since the very first one I installed at my K3/2192 and never have had any kind of problem with them,sometimes as Don said,I go back to the former one just to hear the difference but so far all the beta FW that has been released are very safe and they will not damage anything at all in your radio.Besides reporting any posible problem is the only way Elecraft team will know what to fix,so always will be testers who will tell them what's good and what's wrong,its up to you weather you try or not but as I said,beta FW is a good thing to do.Good luck AD4C K3 and K2 "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3" --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Lee Trout <[hidden email]> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:30 PM Thanks for your response Dave and Don, but I do not agree. I see too many complaints of one sort or another on the reflector about problems with beta releases. I don't like computers and use them minimally and thus have no interest in loading in a update to experiment with, then reverting back to earlier version in case of problems -- that is what beta testers enjoy doing. And I suspect there are quite a few guys like me. If everyone is supposed to load the beta releases, what is the purpose of a regular release? And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May that could be issued as the new production release? 73, Lee (K9CM) ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
Lee said >>>It would be nice if all the stable items in these betas were
incorporated into a regular release so those of us not interested in being beta testers could catch up to some degree. Lee, I have installed every K3 beta version and almost all of the pre-beta firmware. Your statement about stability is not founded in reality. Every installation has been stable. I have never had the urge to go back to a prior version after installing a beta or pre-beta. You are missing out on all the new features. If you think about it, what risk are you taking? If it doesn't work out for you, just go back to the older version. You are always just five minutes away from having whatever version of FW that you wish. It isn't like the K3 is going to blow up in your face. Mike Scott - AE6WA Tarzana, CA (DM04 / near LA) NAQCC 3535 K3-100 #508 / KX1 #1311 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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It just occurred to me that there are several perceptions of the word
"stable" (actually lack of stability) that could be coming into play in this discussion. 1) It has all functions implemented -- Maybe one day, but not today - new stuff is added incrementally. 2) All "fixes" have been implemented -- That is true for identified bugs to the extent possible when it goes to beta. 3) It will not 'break' the K3 -- No pre-beta release has ever 'broken' my K3 The net is that the K3 firmware is currently a work in progress. There are a few functions that are still to be added, like Sync AM, and there is a list of requests for additional function or changes for the existing functions that are being considered (new requests are seen frequently here on the reflector). Those who have been paying close attention to the beta release levels will know that if a major problem (more than an annoyance) is identified, the result is a quick turn-around with a new beta release containing the fix (and that fix has already been tested by the Field Test group). My conclusion is that the "stability" of the K3 firmware is a relative term. In anticipation of further improvements, it will be a long time before the firmware is "finished" and thus "stable" by that definition. 73, Don W3FPR Mike Scott wrote: > Your statement about stability is not founded in reality. Every > installation has been stable. > <Lot-a-snips> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
This gets to the point where someone wants new PRODUCTION code and features
every couple of months. Consider that the FT-1000MP had exactly one release. The FT1000MP MkV had one release. Ad nauseum. Since there is NO precedent of any ham transceiver folding in frequent new major firmware features mid-model except the K3, there is no precedent of a reasonable release schedule for ham transceiver PRODUCTION software. Elecraft is setting the new standard for this. There is no coding on the planet as difficult as code for hardware, which requires efficiency, compactness, total attention to timing, vast creativity, and extensive testing. Where I last worked, we had the size (over 20,000 employees) to put 2000-3000 full-time employees in FULL-TIME code testing. Frankly, some of the stuff Wayne is putting out, I would have 25 or more full time testers, working on a plan, if the release schedule was compact. This kind of investment makes financial sense for something with 100,000+ eventual installations. It does not make sense for a product with 2000 units of 3k $ per year, the loaded cost of testing exceeding the gross. That kind of investment in the tiny, tiny niche that is ham radio transceivers is not possible. If it was REQUIRED, K3 would simply not happen. You'd be stuck with the Ikenyu single firmware per model, a lean feature set, with little change between "models" because a rich and substantially changing feature set cannot be fully tested without destroying the profit margins or raising prices to military levels. What we have in Elecraft is an in-between strategy, created from a customer base of kit-builders, where those who WANT to play beta fill in the un-feasible full-time testing base to make more-than-one-firmware-release-per-model possible. Among some there seems to be little patience or appreciation of the difficulty of the work. Beyond that, pre-beta testers are catching stuff (note skipped numbers between public betas), "modifying" our rigs in a way no longer possible ourselves, and enjoying them. So, please, DO beta and like it (if you find a problem, report it), or DON'T do beta and wait for the rest of us to hammer it out. Just try not to spoil it for the rest of us. 73, Guy. On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote: > Thanks for your response Dave and Don, but I do not agree. I see too many > complaints of one sort or another on the reflector about problems with beta > releases. I don't like computers and use them minimally and thus have no > interest in loading in a update to experiment with, then reverting back to > earlier version in case of problems -- that is what beta testers enjoy > doing. And I suspect there are quite a few guys like me. > > If everyone is supposed to load the beta releases, what is the purpose of a > regular release? And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May > that could be issued as the new production release? > > 73, Lee (K9CM) > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I just installed the new FW 3.44 and radio DID NOT FAIL,download was smooth and easy,LIKE ALL OTHERS,inmediately noticed NR works better than before as well as the NB,audio quality did not change at all,still remains from 50 to 4000Hz,will test the rest of the features reported to have improved,so far as all others this was a reliable Beta FW,so nobody will have to be afraid to do this process which is safe and stable.
AD4C "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3" --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Beta Firmware To: "Lee Trout" <[hidden email]> Cc: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, October 17, 2009, 2:08 PM This gets to the point where someone wants new PRODUCTION code and features every couple of months. Consider that the FT-1000MP had exactly one release. The FT1000MP MkV had one release. Ad nauseum. Since there is NO precedent of any ham transceiver folding in frequent new major firmware features mid-model except the K3, there is no precedent of a reasonable release schedule for ham transceiver PRODUCTION software. Elecraft is setting the new standard for this. There is no coding on the planet as difficult as code for hardware, which requires efficiency, compactness, total attention to timing, vast creativity, and extensive testing. Where I last worked, we had the size (over 20,000 employees) to put 2000-3000 full-time employees in FULL-TIME code testing. Frankly, some of the stuff Wayne is putting out, I would have 25 or more full time testers, working on a plan, if the release schedule was compact. This kind of investment makes financial sense for something with 100,000+ eventual installations. It does not make sense for a product with 2000 units of 3k $ per year, the loaded cost of testing exceeding the gross. That kind of investment in the tiny, tiny niche that is ham radio transceivers is not possible. If it was REQUIRED, K3 would simply not happen. You'd be stuck with the Ikenyu single firmware per model, a lean feature set, with little change between "models" because a rich and substantially changing feature set cannot be fully tested without destroying the profit margins or raising prices to military levels. What we have in Elecraft is an in-between strategy, created from a customer base of kit-builders, where those who WANT to play beta fill in the un-feasible full-time testing base to make more-than-one-firmware-release-per-model possible. Among some there seems to be little patience or appreciation of the difficulty of the work. Beyond that, pre-beta testers are catching stuff (note skipped numbers between public betas), "modifying" our rigs in a way no longer possible ourselves, and enjoying them. So, please, DO beta and like it (if you find a problem, report it), or DON'T do beta and wait for the rest of us to hammer it out. Just try not to spoil it for the rest of us. 73, Guy. On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote: > Thanks for your response Dave and Don, but I do not agree. I see too many > complaints of one sort or another on the reflector about problems with beta > releases. I don't like computers and use them minimally and thus have no > interest in loading in a update to experiment with, then reverting back to > earlier version in case of problems -- that is what beta testers enjoy > doing. And I suspect there are quite a few guys like me. > > If everyone is supposed to load the beta releases, what is the purpose of a > regular release? And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May > that could be issued as the new production release? > > 73, Lee (K9CM) > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009 08:30:55 -0400, Lee Trout <[hidden email]>
wrote: >Thanks for your response Dave and Don, but I do not agree. I see too many >complaints of one sort or another on the reflector about problems with beta >releases. I am one of the beta testers. When I read the complaints regarding new betas I find that I cannot duplicate most of them or that the poster is expressing a personal opinion based on the way they like for things to work. If I can duplicate the behavior the poster describes I report it to Elecraft and it gets fixed (usually in the next day or so). Send an email to one of the other rig manufacturers and see if you can even get an answer from them. > *** >I don't like computers and use them minimally and thus have no >interest in loading in a update to experiment with, then reverting back to >earlier version in case of problems -- that is what beta testers enjoy >doing. > *** No one is suggesting that you are doing the wrong thing by not installing beta firmware. It's your choice not to do so. I'm sorry you don't like computers, but once again, that is in keeping with making your own choice. >And I suspect there are quite a few guys like me. > >If everyone is supposed to load the beta releases, what is the purpose of a >regular release? And Don, has there been no stable beta release sine May >that could be issued as the new production release? > >73, Lee (K9CM) [snip] Tom, N5GE [hidden email] K3 #806, K3 #1055, PR6, XV144, XV432, KRC2, W1 and other small kits. 2 W2's on order 1 K144XV on order http://www.n5ge.com http://www.swotrc.net ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
I download the zip file from the Elecraft web site using the web browser
Firefox and save it in a beta folder. I have pretty much all the beta firmware there in the original zip format. Then I remove the 8 or so files from the zipped one with Winzip (I know Windows will now extract those files but I have a paid for Winzip and it works better) and extract the contents of the latest zip file to that same folder. My K3 Utility points to that folder and sees the latest available firmware. The process is relatively straightforward and means I have currently 50 versions of earlier firmware I can refer back to with out difficulty. Yes, it's a bit "computery" but it works 100% for me with Windows XP Pro and I checked with another K3 owner who has Vista and he says it works fine on zipped betas for him too (although he also has Winzip). Not having Winzip shouldn't be a problem... 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 ---------------- [Rich KE0X Wrote] My problem with the BETA process is that it is in no way intuitively obvious as to how to install it. I have put this on the reflector before and got pu-pawed, I have Windows Vista. It is Pain in the A… to install the new betas. You CAN NOT click and download the file. PERIOD. You MUST follow a specific procedure just to even see the zip file (because for some unknown reason it is in a FTP folder. That means you have to openthe folder in a separate window/tab, etc. etc. etc. and do it CORECTLY. Why can’t the beta file be placed as an icon/link? Why can’t the K3Utility have a special tab for BETA releases? And there are many other ways this process could be improved. My 2 cents. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
Rich
The link is: ftp://ftp.elecraft.com/K3/firmware/beta/ It works just fine in Firefox, no idea why it doesn't work for you. There is nothing wrong with that site. 73 Dave, G4AON -------------------- I can see many other web pages with ZIP files that I can click on and download but not on Elecraft, WHY? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
>
> My conclusion is that the "stability" of the K3 firmware is a relative > term. In anticipation of further improvements, it will be a long time > before the firmware is "finished" and thus "stable" by that > definition. > > 73, > Don W3FPR This makes wonder if new K3's are shipped with the latest Bata or the last production firmware? 73 Rick Dettinger K7MW ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
Regarding beta releases ... if you're concerned about new bugs or
problems, just wait a week or two following the initial announcement and monitor the reflector. If there's a bug, you'll hear about it. If not, go ahead and download. Regarding Vista -- I have no problems whatever downloading the beta packages and sending them to my K3. 73--Nick, WA5BDU ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
I dont understand why I can choose to upgrade to the regular firmware
version with a built in ftp engine and for beta's I have to find the firmware myself. Using ftp from a browser is not really working. Why not just an option in the utility? I dont have problems with any of the betas. (Running the latest now.) Henk PA5KT Ron D'Eau Claire schreef: > Yes a "single click" download might be nice, but I use basically Dave's > approach with with I.E. and both Xp and Vista except that I don't have > Winzip on the Vista machine (the built in unzip utility steps in > automatically). > > No problem here with either OS. > > The Elecraft web site also has clear step-by-step instructions that work for > either Vista or Xp. > > Ron AC7AC > > -----Original Message----- > I download the zip file from the Elecraft web site using the web browser > Firefox and save it in a beta folder. I have pretty much all the beta > firmware there in the original zip format. > > Then I remove the 8 or so files from the zipped one with Winzip (I know > Windows will now extract those files but I have a paid for Winzip and it > works better) and extract the contents of the latest zip file to that > same folder. My K3 Utility points to that folder and sees the latest > available firmware. > > The process is relatively straightforward and means I have currently 50 > versions of earlier firmware I can refer back to with out difficulty. > Yes, it's a bit "computery" but it works 100% for me with Windows XP Pro > and I checked with another K3 owner who has Vista and he says it works > fine on zipped betas for him too (although he also has Winzip). Not > having Winzip shouldn't be a problem... > > 73 Dave, G4AON > K3/100 #80 > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- Henk Remijn PA5KT email: [hidden email] www: www.remijn.net ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Lee Trout
Rich and all, I don't use Vista, but have heard on more than one occasion
that signing onto Vista as "The Administrator" allows certain file manipulation that Vista security otherwise prevents. 73, Fred ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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