[K3] Built-in features and side-effects
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[K3] Built-in features and side-effects
 
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My take on this is the following:
Given that the K3 has a non-scalable user interface with it's fixed LCD panel and silk-screened knob and button labels, providing "convenience" features through the addition of "side-effects" to existing control functions is probably a bad idea. We may be seeing the limits of the UI on the front panel with knobs that you can turn, tap, press and hold for one second, press and hold for one second then turn, press and hold for three seconds then turn. (There really is a knob like that!). The goals should be "minimize surprises" and "do no harm" from pushing a button or turning a knob. That can probably never be attained, but it should be the goal. For example, if I set the output power to 10 watts and then switch bands to 80 meters and I'm suddenly running 100 watts, I personally would be surprised - especially if the first indication of the higher power is a sizzling sound. It is becoming blazingly clear that the processing power and extentensive set of control points in the radio provide far more flexibility than can be easily and intuitively expressed through the front panel. More customized behavior should be handled through the computer control interface, either with a PC or a purpose-built controller, or through an obvious, logical, but perhaps lengthy, sequence of front panel control actuations. As the user base becomes larger and more experienced, changes to the behavior of front panel controls should be selectable through the menu system - with the default being the "old" behavior - lest we constantly need to retrain ourselves. Just my opinion. Balancing efficiency against intuitive behavior, especially with a user interface that is reaching its limits, is a very hard problem. 73 and have fun! Rick AI1V K3 #728 |
RE: Built-in features and side-effects
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<> It is becoming blazingly clear that the processing power and extentensive <> set of control points in the radio provide far more flexibility than can be <> easily and intuitively expressed through the front panel. I agree, Rick - nicely said. Here's how I would like to see it implemented. We need a "self-contained" panadaptor option from Elecraft. By "self-contained" I mean an external box that connects to the K3 with a single cable and has connectors to plug in a keyboard, a mouse, and a standard LCD display. I would like to see the associated software, in the default mode, dedicate the upper half of the LCD display to the panadaptor. The lower half of the display should be a front panel extension for the K3. This area can be used for the implementation of the "overflow" functions that are not possible to implement ergonomically on the hardware front panel. These functions can be operated with programmable keys on the keyboard and/or by mouse clicks. 73 ... Craig AC0DS _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Built-in features and side-effects
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What you said, except: Touch Screen! Why chase down the mouse?
Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456 <snip> Here's how I would like to see it implemented. We need a "self-contained" panadaptor option from Elecraft. By "self-contained" I mean an external box that connects to the K3 with a single cable and has connectors to plug in a keyboard, a mouse, and a standard LCD display. I would like to see the associated software, in the default mode, dedicate the upper half of the LCD display to the panadaptor. The lower half of the display should be a front panel extension for the K3. This area can be used for the implementation of the "overflow" functions that are not possible to implement ergonomically on the hardware front panel. These functions can be operated with programmable keys on the keyboard and/or by mouse clicks. 73 ... Craig AC0DS </snip> _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Built-in features and side-effects
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OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. You can already do all that with computer software and an SDR interface to the IF output. I never see a picture of a shack, never mind a DXpedition or contest site, where a computer isn't being used. So why would anyone need a dedicated and probably complex and expensive box? Okay, perhaps you can't have touch screen just yet, though the next version of Windows is rumored to have this. But in any case, could you click as accurately on a signal with your finger as you could with a mouse?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
RE: Built-in features and side-effects
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<> OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. You can already do all that <> with computer software and an SDR interface to the IF output. I never see a <> picture of a shack, never mind a DXpedition or contest site, where a <> computer isn't being used. So why would anyone need a dedicated and probably <> complex and expensive box? Yes, you are correct - It can all be done with an external computer. But with how much hassle? I've been following the first user experiences with the LP-Pan panadaptor that uses this approach. I have great respect for Larry's designs and am convinced that the performance of the panadaptor is superb - I may even own one someday. However the email reflector contains mostly item after item discussing sound card compatability, cabling connections, operating systems, third party SDR software configurations, etc. etc. etc. I LIKE playing with radios! I DON'T like playing with computers !!! The above sentiment is a personal one. I'm sure there are many others that enjoy fussing with computers. I'm just not one of them. 73 ... Craig AC0DS <> <> Okay, perhaps you can't have touch screen just yet, though the next version <> of Windows is rumored to have this. But in any case, could you click as <> accurately on a signal with your finger as you could with a mouse? <> <> ----- <> Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 <> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com <> Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf <> -- <> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-K3--Built-in-features-and- <> side-effects-tp17762047p17765647.html <> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. <> <> _______________________________________________ <> Elecraft mailing list <> Post to: [hidden email] <> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. <> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): <> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <> <> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm <> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I feel the same way Craig, but it's not as complex as you think. Order an LP-PAN ($175 kit or $225 assembled), order one of the *two* recommended sound cards (available for ~$100 shipped) and follow Larry's instructions. Both Ham Radio Deluxe (used by PowerSDR-IF for rig control) and PowerSDR-IF are free. I'm using an old 1.1GHz P3 with 1GB RAM and my system works well with PowerSDR at 96 kHz (fine since I'm 99.9% CW). If your display is large enough, you can do exactly what someone suggested and have both HRD for rig control and the PowerSDR Panadaptor running on the same screen. 73, Bill |
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FYI, I have recently installed the LP-PAN and it's working beautifully with my K3. My 2GHz dual core PC has no problem with the full 192kHz scan width. Very nice. I am already completely dependent on a PC for logging, QRZ.COM, DX cluster, so this makes no difference in that regard. I do not think Elecraft is well advised developing boxes with the aim to eliminate a PC which are sold by the millions and provide much more CPU power per dollar.
Knut - AB2TC
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Re: Built-in features and side-effects
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Julian G4ILO wrote on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 at 10:55 PM
> OK, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. You can already do all that > with computer software and an SDR interface to the IF output. I never see > a > picture of a shack, never mind a DXpedition or contest site, where a > computer isn't being used. So why would anyone need a dedicated and > probably > complex and expensive box? To avoid 'computer problems' :-) 73, Geoff GM4ESD _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Craig Smith
So, how is adding a keyboard, I assume mouse port for point and click
tuning, and a video output for the much bigger, better, and inevitable 20" LCD display to an Elecraft "box" different than running the LP-PAN with a computer? The computer is going to win the performance, flexibility and usability question every time. If I was going to do a pan adapter for the K3 I'd run down to Costco, Sam Club, hell, even Best Buy and pick up a $500 PC, bump the memory up to 2G, might spend another $100 on improved video system, $100 bucks for the E-MU 0202 sound card, $175 for the LP-Pan and for less than $1K I've got a pan adapter which will run circles around anything Elecraft can put in one box. Craig D. Smith wrote: > Yes, you are correct - It can all be done with an external computer. But > with how much hassle? I've been following the first user experiences with > the LP-Pan panadaptor that uses this approach. I have great respect for > Larry's designs and am convinced that the performance of the panadaptor is > superb - I may even own one someday. However the email reflector contains > mostly item after item discussing sound card compatability, cabling > connections, operating systems, third party SDR software configurations, > etc. etc. etc. > > I LIKE playing with radios! I DON'T like playing with computers !!! > > The above sentiment is a personal one. I'm sure there are many others that > enjoy fussing with computers. I'm just not one of them. > > 73 > ... Craig AC0DS > > > > > <> > <> Okay, perhaps you can't have touch screen just yet, though the next > version > <> of Windows is rumored to have this. But in any case, could you click as > <> accurately on a signal with your finger as you could with a mouse? > <> > <> ----- > <> Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 > <> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com > <> Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf > <> -- > <> View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/-K3--Built-in-features-and- > <> side-effects-tp17762047p17765647.html > <> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > <> > <> _______________________________________________ > <> Elecraft mailing list > <> Post to: [hidden email] > <> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > <> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > <> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > <> > <> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > <> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Built-in features and side-effects
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Kevin,
You are absolutely correct - computers have become quite inexpensive. I used to put together my computer systems from the motherboard on up, but now it is less expensive just to buy a new machine. I know TigerDirect has off-lease computers running in the 2 to 3 GHz range for less than $200 and a new computer can be had for $500 at many places. Get yourself a good computer plus a capable soundcard and there will be a LOT less 'playing' with it - load the applications and go. I believe many of the 'problems' and related forum comments encountered stems from attempting to use whatever old computer is laying around for compute intensive operations. In other words, trying to use that trusty old 233 MHz computer with 64 Meg of RAM and a 10 GB hard drive running Windows 95 will just not hack it with the applications needed for SDR processing. Attempting to do something similar is a sure recipe for frustration. 73, Don W3FPR Kevin wrote: > So, how is adding a keyboard, I assume mouse port for point and click > tuning, and a video output for the much bigger, better, and inevitable > 20" LCD display to an Elecraft "box" different than running the LP-PAN > with a computer? > > The computer is going to win the performance, flexibility and > usability question every time. > > If I was going to do a pan adapter for the K3 I'd run down to Costco, > Sam Club, hell, even Best Buy and pick up a $500 PC, bump the memory > up to 2G, might spend another $100 on improved video system, $100 > bucks for the E-MU 0202 sound card, $175 for the LP-Pan and for less > than $1K I've got a pan adapter which will run circles around anything > Elecraft can put in one box. > > > Craig D. Smith wrote: >> Yes, you are correct - It can all be done with an external computer. >> But >> with how much hassle? I've been following the first user experiences >> with >> the LP-Pan panadaptor that uses this approach. I have great respect for >> Larry's designs and am convinced that the performance of the >> panadaptor is >> superb - I may even own one someday. However the email reflector >> contains >> mostly item after item discussing sound card compatability, cabling >> connections, operating systems, third party SDR software configurations, >> etc. etc. etc. >> I LIKE playing with radios! I DON'T like playing with >> computers !!! >> >> The above sentiment is a personal one. I'm sure there are many >> others that >> enjoy fussing with computers. I'm just not one of them. >> >> 73 >> ... Craig AC0DS >> >> >> >> >> <> <> Okay, perhaps you can't have touch screen just yet, though the >> next >> version >> <> of Windows is rumored to have this. But in any case, could you >> click as >> <> accurately on a signal with your finger as you could with a mouse? >> <> <> ----- >> <> Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 >> <> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com >> <> Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf >> <> -- >> <> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/-K3--Built-in-features-and- >> <> side-effects-tp17762047p17765647.html >> <> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> <> <> _______________________________________________ >> <> Elecraft mailing list >> <> Post to: [hidden email] >> <> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> <> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> <> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> <> <> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> <> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by ac0h
Amen to that Kevin!
I picked up a bare bones computer at Circuit City a while back. Added memory, SantaCruz soundcard and now a EMU-202 USB soundcard and using it with LP Pan adapter, sometimes directly into the bare K3or use the Microham Microkeyer, Microham BandDecoder to my PW-1. Put on a Widescreen monitor and it is my perfect complement to the K3 along with the digital display to my ArraySolutions PowerMaster wattmeter. HRD and 780 look great on the widescreen. I am sure Elecraft engineers would do a better job than Yaesu did with the DMU-2000 for the FT-2000 but they could not be anywhere near as flexible as a PC and peripherals. Mike WA8EBM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Built-in features and side-effects > So, how is adding a keyboard, I assume mouse port for point and click > tuning, and a video output for the much bigger, better, and inevitable 20" > LCD display to an Elecraft "box" different than running the LP-PAN with a > computer? > > The computer is going to win the performance, flexibility and usability > question every time. > > If I was going to do a pan adapter for the K3 I'd run down to Costco, Sam > Club, hell, even Best Buy and pick up a $500 PC, bump the memory up to 2G, > might spend another $100 on improved video system, $100 bucks for the E-MU > 0202 sound card, $175 for the LP-Pan and for less than $1K I've got a pan > adapter which will run circles around anything Elecraft can put in one > box. > > > Craig D. Smith wrote: >> Yes, you are correct - It can all be done with an external computer. But >> with how much hassle? I've been following the first user experiences >> with >> the LP-Pan panadaptor that uses this approach. I have great respect for >> Larry's designs and am convinced that the performance of the panadaptor >> is >> superb - I may even own one someday. However the email reflector >> contains >> mostly item after item discussing sound card compatability, cabling >> connections, operating systems, third party SDR software configurations, >> etc. etc. etc. >> I LIKE playing with radios! I DON'T like playing with computers >> !!! >> >> The above sentiment is a personal one. I'm sure there are many others >> that >> enjoy fussing with computers. I'm just not one of them. >> >> 73 >> ... Craig AC0DS >> >> >> >> >> <> <> Okay, perhaps you can't have touch screen just yet, though the next >> version >> <> of Windows is rumored to have this. But in any case, could you click >> as >> <> accurately on a signal with your finger as you could with a mouse? >> <> <> ----- >> <> Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 >> <> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com >> <> Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf >> <> -- >> <> View this message in context: >> http://www.nabble.com/-K3--Built-in-features-and- >> <> side-effects-tp17762047p17765647.html >> <> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> <> <> _______________________________________________ >> <> Elecraft mailing list >> <> Post to: [hidden email] >> <> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> <> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> <> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> <> <> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> <> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Built-in features and side-effects
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I use 24" 1900 x 1200 monitors, although I say it myself DM780 is nice to
use with this resolution. I also agree that given the cost of PC's the best option is to grab the data from the radio and put it on a screen - before long we'll have the PC built into the monitor, probably using an Intel Atom CPU. FWIW the new IC-7200 has a USB connector providing CAT and soundcard output - before long we'll have a radio with USB which provides CAT, soundcard and bandscope data. Simon Brown, HB9DRV -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Penkas" <[hidden email]> > I am sure Elecraft engineers would do a better job than Yaesu did with the > DMU-2000 for the FT-2000 but they could not be anywhere near as flexible > as a PC and peripherals. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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