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K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

> Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing?

Absolutely not! One need only listen to the number of *BAD* fists
with paddles - maladjusted keyers, letters run together, "short"
word spaces, missing dits, etc. are all quite common.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-11-30 11:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote:

> If I had to use a straight key, I would give up CW entirely. I went right to paddles and a keyer.
> I have about 20 various CW capable radios, every one of them has a built in keyer
> Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing?
>
> Leroy AB7CE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of GRANT YOUNGMAN
> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 9:11 PM
> To: Elecraft List
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest
>
>
>>
>> A straight key ... any quality straight key. Don't move to paddles or
>> a bug until you learn proper timing/spacing.
>>
>
> I have to agree. Straight key first, without question. VIbroplex, J-38, yada yada, just about anything that is a decent key. Many to choose from. Learn the code and most importantly GOOD timing. Get your speed up. Then worry about a bug or single/dual lever paddles and the different keyer modes, and don’t be in a hurry to move to something glitzy.
>
> Grant NQ5T
>
>
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Leroy

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by tomb18

I have from the Schurr Profi to home made keys.
One of the best I have is the Norcal paddles Kit key,.
It’s a magnetic(versus springs ) type key. I did put silver contacts on it.
It was picked up by Vibroplex and made as the Code Warrior, I think.
I don’t think Elecraft sells the magnetic paddles by Bencher anymore.
Another favorite that is in use right now is the N3ZN key, also magnetic tension.
Now that my hand has become partially paralyzed, I am using computer key board
Keying, and I like it a lot. Probably the wave of the future and the saving technology for CW.
Also used for PSK31 and other modes.

Leroy AB7CE

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tom Blahovici
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:06 PM
To: Jim Brown
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW

I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll look at a paddle instead.
So what's this about iambic? What are the types of paddles out there?

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Dave-7

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

There is nothing inherent in a paddle that causes bad CW any more than
a straight key causes bad CW. There is tons of horrible CW sent with
straight keys. Just listen a bit. They are not hard to find.

If you want to learn good timing with either a paddle or straight key
then practice sending and let a computer decode what you send. It will
spot most all errors regardless of the method of sending.

Sloppy timing has nothing to do with the instrument used. It is 100%
with the op and their failure to practice with whatever they are
using. Poor timing is plentiful from both straight keys and paddles.

73 de dave
ab9ca/4

On 11/30/14 11:09 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> > Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing?
>
> Absolutely not! One need only listen to the number of *BAD* fists
> with paddles - maladjusted keyers, letters run together, "short"
> word spaces, missing dits, etc. are all quite common.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 2014-11-30 11:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote:
>> If I had to use a straight key, I would give up CW entirely. I went
>> right to paddles and a keyer.
>> I have about 20 various CW capable radios, every one of them has a
>> built in keyer
>> Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing?
>>
>> Leroy AB7CE
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf
>> Of GRANT YOUNGMAN
>> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 9:11 PM
>> To: Elecraft List
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A straight key ... any quality straight key. Don't move to paddles or
>>> a bug until you learn proper timing/spacing.
>>>
>>
>> I have to agree. Straight key first, without question. VIbroplex,
>> J-38, yada yada, just about anything that is a decent key. Many to
>> choose from. Learn the code and most importantly GOOD timing. Get
>> your speed up. Then worry about a bug or single/dual lever paddles
>> and the different keyer modes, and donâ€™t be in a hurry to move to
>> something glitzy.
>>
>> Grant NQ5T
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
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Barry K3NDM

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by tomb18

Tom,
As a beginner, don't get hung up on iambic. It's really for the
advanced CW operator. It requires a double paddle, or squeeze key set
and when you squeeze the paddles, you send alternating dits and dahs.
Whether you send a dit or a dah first, is a matter if which side you
squeezed first.

There all kinds of keys out there. As a beginner who most likely is
not going to run high speed, almost any paddle set will work as long as
the paddles move smoothly. The important thing is that it has a heavy
enough base not to move around during excited sending. A Bencher is
probably not a bad starting point. It uses a spring to make the paddle
work and it doesn't feel all that bad. I use a good Vibroplex most of
the time with an old Brown Brothers as my other main paddle set. I also
have my first set which is an FYO set that Bencher copied.

No matter what kind of paddle set you get, you are going to need
to adjust it for you. Whether you get spring loaded or magnetic tension
paddles, the watch word is smoothness and response. At low speed
response is not usually an issue. The rest of it is cosmetic. If there
is a good CW operator near you, go see him and ask to play with his
key/paddle set and see what it feels like. And then ask him why he sets
his paddles as he does.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

On 12/1/2014 12:05 AM, Tom Blahovici wrote:

> I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll look at a paddle instead.
> So what's this about iambic? What are the types of paddles out there?
>
> On Nov 30, 2014 11:42 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote:
>>> Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing?
>> It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers
>> did not exist -- we had "bugs," but did start on straight keys. But bugs
>> are inherently different from the paddle/keyer combo. Perhaps one of the
>> CWOps guys who are working with CW Academy can offer an opinion. Mine is
>> that sending good CW is mostly a matter of training our brain and
>> fingers to mimic the good CW that we hear. Unless you're a real straight
>> key "pro," they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going
>> to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going
>> through an intermediate step.
>>
>> BTW -- if you want to get a great start on CW (or build your skills), by
>> all means take advantage of CW Academy. This is the brainchild of K6RB
>> and a few other CWOps members, and it's been quite successful.
>> http://www.cwops.org/ I'm a proud member of CWOps, but not very active.
>> It's a great group. Membership is by invitation. You don't need to be a
>> member to be in CW Academy or the many on-the-air events. Check out the
>> website.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I don't agree. How does a straight key help you achieve proper spacing? Some of the worst sending I've ever heard comes from straight keys. Just get a paddle and let the keyer do its job. Your job will be to pay attention to the letter and word spacing.
Also, as others have said, don't get an expensive paddle until you have enough experience to know what you want. The old Bencher BY1 is cheap and good.

Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:51 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> A straight key ... any quality straight key. Don't move to
> paddles or a bug until you learn proper timing/spacing.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>> On 2014-11-30 10:27 PM, Tom Blahovici wrote:
>> Ok
>> So I'm sure this is going to get a lot of opinions... What's the best key to start with?
>> With the k3 of course.
>>
>>> On Nov 30, 2014 10:04 PM, Ray Sills <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> And, don't forget that CW is almost an international language. Even
>>> if you don't speak any of the many foreign languages, most DX
>>> operators understand the characters that we use for a QSO... QTH,
>>> name, WX, RST. And when it's a DX station running... well, all you
>>> get is your call and report (5nn). Many DX operators know enough
>>> English to do the same in voice, but not all. CW fills in that gap.
>>>
>>> 73 de Ray
>>> K2ULR
>>> KX3 #211
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:08 PM, lmarion wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you want to work more DX than you ever thought possible:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Learn enough CW to do basic exchanges.
>>>> Your speed and proficiency will increase dramatically by just doing
>>>> it.
>>>> 2. Get on 30 meters. Other countries have not abandoned CW
>>>> like the USA has. You will work DX after DX station.
>>>>
>>>> You can even call CQ with QRP power and work stations worldwide.
>>>> No need to wait for contests with their special rules and pileups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Leroy AB7CE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 18:32 -0500, Tom Blahovici wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> Just thought I'd drop a note about the Elecraft CW decoder. I've
>>>>> been on the air for a number of hours hunting new DXCC's with the
>>>>> K3's built in CW decoder. This was my first time using CW, I only
>>>>> know the letters CQ 5NN TU and that's it! ( OK E also) Never been
>>>>> on CW before so all DXCC's were 'new'.
>>>>> Armed with that and a spotting program I racked up 50 new dxccs
>>>>> from around the world. This was a new experience and introduced me
>>>>> to CW. Now I want to learn it so the next time the contest comes
>>>>> around I'll enjoy it that much more. Was a blast.
>>>>> 73's Tom
>>>>> va2fsq.com
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>>
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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>>
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Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Barry K3NDM

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad I finally discovered the single-lever paddle after more than ten years of struggling with iambic. It is so much easier to use the single-lever and it is much more forgiving for small timing errors.

I wrote about it on my blog some time ago: http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/06/the-advantage-of-single-lever-paddle.html After that I got the tiny Palm single-lever paddle.

Barry K3NDM wrote

Tom,
As a beginner, don't get hung up on iambic.

Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html

Deni F5VJC

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

Go with a paddle and electronic keyer, or use the inbuilt rig keyer, Iambic
or not is up to you, also Mode A or B whichever feels comfortable.
You can play with the straight if you wish key when you know how good CW
sounds.

Most important... LISTEN to what good CW sounds like, using programs such
as "Koch Trainer", "Just Learn Morse Code" and "Morse Runner" for contest
practice.

Lots of good CW on air but also lots of VERY poor CW, spacing is important.

Good luck...

73, Denis F5VJC

On 1 December 2014 at 08:08, Vic Rosenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't agree. How does a straight key help you achieve proper spacing?
> Some of the worst sending I've ever heard comes from straight keys. Just
> get a paddle and let the keyer do its job. Your job will be to pay
> attention to the letter and word spacing.
> Also, as others have said, don't get an expensive paddle until you have
> enough experience to know what you want. The old Bencher BY1 is cheap and
> good.
>
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>
> > On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:51 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > A straight key ... any quality straight key. Don't move to
> > paddles or a bug until you learn proper timing/spacing.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> >
> >> On 2014-11-30 10:27 PM, Tom Blahovici wrote:
> >> Ok
> >> So I'm sure this is going to get a lot of opinions... What's the best
> key to start with?
> >> With the k3 of course.
> >>
> >>> On Nov 30, 2014 10:04 PM, Ray Sills <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> And, don't forget that CW is almost an international language. Even
> >>> if you don't speak any of the many foreign languages, most DX
> >>> operators understand the characters that we use for a QSO... QTH,
> >>> name, WX, RST. And when it's a DX station running... well, all you
> >>> get is your call and report (5nn). Many DX operators know enough
> >>> English to do the same in voice, but not all. CW fills in that gap.
> >>>
> >>> 73 de Ray
> >>> K2ULR
> >>> KX3 #211
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:08 PM, lmarion wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> If you want to work more DX than you ever thought possible:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. Learn enough CW to do basic exchanges.
> >>>> Your speed and proficiency will increase dramatically by just doing
> >>>> it.
> >>>> 2. Get on 30 meters. Other countries have not abandoned CW
> >>>> like the USA has. You will work DX after DX station.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can even call CQ with QRP power and work stations worldwide.
> >>>> No need to wait for contests with their special rules and pileups.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Leroy AB7CE
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 18:32 -0500, Tom Blahovici wrote:
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>> Just thought I'd drop a note about the Elecraft CW decoder. I've
> >>>>> been on the air for a number of hours hunting new DXCC's with the
> >>>>> K3's built in CW decoder. This was my first time using CW, I only
> >>>>> know the letters CQ 5NN TU and that's it! ( OK E also) Never been
> >>>>> on CW before so all DXCC's were 'new'.
> >>>>> Armed with that and a spotting program I racked up 50 new dxccs
> >>>>> from around the world. This was a new experience and introduced me
> >>>>> to CW. Now I want to learn it so the next time the contest comes
> >>>>> around I'll enjoy it that much more. Was a blast.
> >>>>> 73's Tom
> >>>>> va2fsq.com
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>>
> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
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> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
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> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
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Oliver Dröse

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I'll second that. Propoer spacing is completely independent from the key
used, it's a matter of OP skills! I had at least 2 guys calling me last
weekend in CQ WW using a hand-key that I simply had to send elsewhere as
their CW was not understandable at all, completely weired spacing!

A friend of mine is just learning CW and started right away with a
paddle. He feels much more comfortable with it after trying both,
hand-key and paddle. Sure just a matter of personal preference.

@Tom:
Try both, hand-key and paddle and then decide for *youself* which one
you like most. Or simply use both. ;-)

73, Olli - DH8BQA

Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de

Am 01.12.2014 08:08, schrieb Vic Rosenthal:

> I don't agree. How does a straight key help you achieve proper spacing? Some of the worst sending I've ever heard comes from straight keys. Just get a paddle and let the keyer do its job. Your job will be to pay attention to the letter and word spacing.
> Also, as others have said, don't get an expensive paddle until you have enough experience to know what you want. The old Bencher BY1 is cheap and good.
>
> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
>
>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:51 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> A straight key ... any quality straight key. Don't move to
>> paddles or a bug until you learn proper timing/spacing.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>> On 2014-11-30 10:27 PM, Tom Blahovici wrote:
>>> Ok
>>> So I'm sure this is going to get a lot of opinions... What's the best key to start with?
>>> With the k3 of course.
>>>
>>>> On Nov 30, 2014 10:04 PM, Ray Sills <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And, don't forget that CW is almost an international language. Even
>>>> if you don't speak any of the many foreign languages, most DX
>>>> operators understand the characters that we use for a QSO... QTH,
>>>> name, WX, RST. And when it's a DX station running... well, all you
>>>> get is your call and report (5nn). Many DX operators know enough
>>>> English to do the same in voice, but not all. CW fills in that gap.
>>>>
>>>> 73 de Ray
>>>> K2ULR
>>>> KX3 #211
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 30, 2014, at 8:08 PM, lmarion wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to work more DX than you ever thought possible:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Learn enough CW to do basic exchanges.
>>>>> Your speed and proficiency will increase dramatically by just doing
>>>>> it.
>>>>> 2. Get on 30 meters. Other countries have not abandoned CW
>>>>> like the USA has. You will work DX after DX station.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can even call CQ with QRP power and work stations worldwide.
>>>>> No need to wait for contests with their special rules and pileups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Leroy AB7CE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 18:32 -0500, Tom Blahovici wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>> Just thought I'd drop a note about the Elecraft CW decoder. I've
>>>>>> been on the air for a number of hours hunting new DXCC's with the
>>>>>> K3's built in CW decoder. This was my first time using CW, I only
>>>>>> know the letters CQ 5NN TU and that's it! ( OK E also) Never been
>>>>>> on CW before so all DXCC's were 'new'.
>>>>>> Armed with that and a spotting program I racked up 50 new dxccs
>>>>>> from around the world. This was a new experience and introduced me
>>>>>> to CW. Now I want to learn it so the next time the contest comes
>>>>>> around I'll enjoy it that much more. Was a blast.
>>>>>> 73's Tom
>>>>>> va2fsq.com
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>
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Oliver Dröse

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by tomb18

Hi Tom,

> Also one thing I noticed with the decode. 9 out of 10 times the station returned my call, the first letter was decoded incorrectly, and no, I did send a V.
> 73's Tom

certainly due to clipping the first letter on their side, i.e. not fast
enough relays in PA stages, etc. It's a quite common problem ... :-(

73, Olli - DH8BQA

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Edward R Cole

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

I still have my original straight key that I bought in 1958 when I
was practising for my Novice. I didn't have the luxury of a code
machine to send my practise sessions (cassettes had not been
invented) so either I listened on my little 3-tube receiver or I
spent hours sending to myself. I think that resulted in a pretty
good "fist". In the day I could send 18-20wpm easily with the
straight key. I guess I favor learning with a straight
key. Learning what proper sounding CW sounds like one should use
tapes or practise programs. Do an hour a day for a month and you
will absorb it.

Many years later I bought a Bencher-2 but never got very good results
as the K3 keyer only does Iambic. I guess I am too set in my ways
wanting to control the dots and dashes to get hang of Iambic. I
should say I was off CW for decades so having to get back into
it. My straight keying is a little rusty and not as smooth as I used
to do, but In time it'll come back. I wonder if there are any keyers
that just work like a bug but using a paddle?

I tried CW skimmer and the K3 CW text decoder but I'm not too
impressed as it takes strong, very clean signal to work well. Brain
works better.

For CW-eme I set up some message scripts where I fill in the other
stations call sign and let the computer send. Eme keeps one quite
busy keeping the antenna pointed, tuning Doppler shift, and listening
to extremely weak signals. Having the transmitting time to fulfill
these other tasks without being tied to the key helps a lot.

Of course I may still need to send a non-standard reply so the old
straight key is right handy. Setting the spring tension and gap for
fast CW is required using a straight key-most beginners have too wide
a gap setting. Motion of the hand is in the wrist moving up/down
with fingers lightly touching the key. Beginners usually try taping
the key. I can see repetitive motion stress being a problem
especially for us older hams. Why I like computer keying for
repetitive calling.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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Joel Black-2

Re: Getting Started With CW

Ed et al.,

My opinions usually rub someone wrong, so take them as they are - one man’s opinions about what he has observed in his short time as an amateur operator.

K1EL makes a kit that will let you set it up in “bug” mode. I assume his Winkeyer does the same.

I have been reluctant to jump in this conversation as I am a QRS op still. I got interested in CW about two years ago. I had learned it to upgrade to Tech Plus and then General 20 or so years ago and then promptly put the key away and I am still kicking myself. I can copy a lot of what is sent at 18 - 20 WPM, but I am comfortable at about 15 - 17 WPM. Not really fast enough for a long QSO. Once I get the call, I can copy standard exchanges pretty fast (i.e. 5NN, TU, 73).

I do *not* like “cut” numbers like “T” for “0.” That messes with my head and I try to figure out what the crap “1TT" means and have missed part of the exchange. I understand *why* it’s done. That doesn’t mean I like it or that I’m going to change it.

When I first got interested a couple of years ago, I think it was this group (Elecraft) that put me on CW Ops. I took a course during the summer of 2012. If I practiced an hour a day, every day, I’d have my speed up where I’d like to be, but I haven’t practiced. I do well enough to copy calls and 5NN from DX ops, but for longer contacts, my mind wanders and I stop decoding. I have tried typing stuff out and that helps some. CW Ops will want you to head copy and learn words. I like this approach, but I’m not there yet. I have a hard time remembering what is spoken to me in regular conversation. :)

There are CW-oriented groups around too - SKCC (Straight Key Century Club skccgroup.com <http://skccgroup.com/>) is one. Another is FISTS (fistsna.org <http://fistsna.org/> although I’m not a member) and there’s also NAQCC (North American QRP CW Club naqcc.info).

There are a lot of QRS ops in SKCC. You don’t have to be a member to work one of the members, you just won’t have a “number” to exchange. SKCC, as the name implies, is a straight key club. They also allow the use of bugs and cootie (sideswiper) keys. Their focus is on manual sending of CW, but it would be rare that the regular ops in that club would shun you. I like sending with a bug - kind of a nostalgia thing to me. I’m not particularly great at it, but I’ve heard much worse.

NAQCC is another specialized club in that they want you to be QRP. Unless you’re an experienced op, or unless you are patient, this club might not be for you. It is kind of a purist club with CW only (paddles are allowed), but they award more points for their sprints based on different criteria. They prefer that you use a wire antenna. However, they have a list of QRS nets on their website: http://naqcc.info/cw_nets.html <http://naqcc.info/cw_nets.html>. Just tune around and listen. Their nets are *not* necessarily QRP. They want folks to check in and practice. My opinion is that “on-the-air” practice is good. You get to experience all of the conditions in real time.

I prefer a single-lever paddle to Iambic. When I *first* learned CW 20 years ago, everyone I knew used a set of Bencher paddles. I didn’t know any different and the Internet was still a dial-up connection to AOL for me. I didn’t know enough even to ask questions. When I got back into CW a couple of years ago, I started reading a lot. I read some history of CW and the progression from straight key to bug (or cootie) up to Iambic paddles. Along the way, the single-lever paddle came up. I bought one and loved it. I *never* got the hang of Iambic operation and *much* prefer a single-lever paddle - to each his own. Because of the way the single-lever mechanism works, it’s been my experience that you’ll pay a little more for that configuration.

I just thought of something else… CWOps will stress *accurate* keying not *fast* keying. If you’re a fast op who makes lots of mistakes and repeats, you could wind up being as slow as the QRS op who is accurate.

There’s also a book out there - I think it’s called The Art and Skill of Radio-Telegraphy. I originally laughed when I heard about a book on learning CW. Well, it’s a good read and is available for free as a PDF from many many places. Here is a link: http://www.tasrt.ca/TASRTVersions/TASRT.pdf <http://www.tasrt.ca/TASRTVersions/TASRT.pdf>.

73,
Joel - W4JBB

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 2:17 AM, Edward R Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I still have my original straight key that I bought in 1958 when I was practising for my Novice. I didn't have the luxury of a code machine to send my practise sessions (cassettes had not been invented) so either I listened on my little 3-tube receiver or I spent hours sending to myself. I think that resulted in a pretty good "fist". In the day I could send 18-20wpm easily with the straight key. I guess I favor learning with a straight key. Learning what proper sounding CW sounds like one should use tapes or practise programs. Do an hour a day for a month and you will absorb it.
>
> Many years later I bought a Bencher-2 but never got very good results as the K3 keyer only does Iambic. I guess I am too set in my ways wanting to control the dots and dashes to get hang of Iambic. I should say I was off CW for decades so having to get back into it. My straight keying is a little rusty and not as smooth as I used to do, but In time it'll come back. I wonder if there are any keyers that just work like a bug but using a paddle?
>

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NK7Z

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by k6dgw

I agree totally, skip the manual key, it's 2014, and you own a really
hot radio, skip the 1890 technology, and get a paddle... Best is a
Vibroplex...
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
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for Dopplergram information see:
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On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 19:48 -0800, Fred Jensen wrote:

> Tom ... get a paddle and plug it into your K3! Many will tell you you
> need to start with a straight key, and only when you're competent can
> you actually try out a paddle. You will find they are universally old,
> as am I, but get a paddle, plug it in and send!
>
> I use the Bencher HexKey from Elecraft at home, my field radio uses a
> little paddle from American Morse Equipment ... other than the checks
> I've written, I have no financial interest, etc, etc. I have a couple
> of standard Benchers too, one I use left handed on the Winkey.
>
> I've used several of the "high end" paddles [not mine] and they are very
> smooth and easy. That's probably not your goal right now, give it time
> and practice and maybe it will be.
>
> Welcome to the world of Morse!!
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
> - www.cqp.org
>
>
>
> On 11/30/2014 7:27 PM, Tom Blahovici wrote:
> > Ok
> > So I'm sure this is going to get a lot of opinions... What's the best key to start with?
> > With the k3 of course.
>
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NK7Z

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by Eric Norris-2

Found in this thread:
>I can't use a straight key any more for more than 20 minutes without a
>lot of pain.

Yes, get a straight key, there is a great reason for one....

Start out with a Paddle... I wish I had...

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Sun, 2014-11-30 at 20:36 -0800, Eric Norris wrote:
> GRANT YOUNGMAN <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

There are alternatives to Iambic keying.
One way is to use a single lever paddle which makes it impossible to
send those alternating dit/dah sequences that I cannot work with
correctly due to some 'finger habits' that I learned when using a bug.

Another way is to get a K1EL keyer (or Winkeyer) and try out the various
modes he has built in.
They do have a bug mode, but I have trouble with that one because there
is no control between the string of dits and the timing of the manual
dashes, when used with dual lever paddles. It would probably be OK with
a single lever paddle, but I have not tried it that way.

With dual lever paddles, I prefer Ultimatic mode. That mode sends a
string of the last paddle closed, which means you can use dit or dah
insertion as well.

If you are just starting out, you may want to learn to send with dual
lever paddles in Iambic (A or B your choice) and learn the squeeze
sequences as well. That should help you when you get up to speeds above
30 wpm.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/1/2014 3:17 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:
>
> Many years later I bought a Bencher-2 but never got very good results
> as the K3 keyer only does Iambic. I guess I am too set in my ways
> wanting to control the dots and dashes to get hang of Iambic. I
> should say I was off CW for decades so having to get back into it. My
> straight keying is a little rusty and not as smooth as I used to do,
> but In time it'll come back. I wonder if there are any keyers that
> just work like a bug but using a paddle?
>

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dmb@lightstream.net

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by tomb18

Tom,

Congratulations on your discovery of CW, and on your desire to learn it
and use it. I've been using CW for about 48 years now for about 90% my
operating. Tons of fun!

But PLEASE DO develop the habit of using the characters "DE" to preface
the sending of your callsign, whether calling CQ or in exchange with
another station. When conditions are poor, or your signal is weak, it has
much value as a delimiter or announcement that you are about to send your
call. This used to be standard practice for years, but unfortunately
appears to have become optional. I have no idea why; it's so short, and
easy to send...

73, and have fun!

DE WA8SRA (Dale)

> Hi
> Just thought I'd drop a note about the Elecraft CW decoder. I've been on
> the air for a number of hours hunting new DXCC's with the K3's built in CW
> decoder. This was my first time using CW, I only know the letters CQ 5NN
> TU and that's it! ( OK E also) Never been on CW before so all DXCC's were
> 'new'.
> Armed with that and a spotting program I racked up 50 new dxccs from
> around the world. This was a new experience and introduced me to CW. Now I
> want to learn it so the next time the contest comes around I'll enjoy it
> that much more. Was a blast.
> 73's Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

On 2014-12-01 8:46 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> If you are just starting out, you may want to learn to send with
> dual lever paddles in Iambic (A or B your choice) and learn the
> squeeze sequences as well. That should help you when you get up to
> speeds above 30 wpm.

*IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic
B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow)
paddle operation.

There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing
element decision is made:

Iambic A which makes the decision at the end of the current element.
If the other paddle is closed at the end of a dit, the keyer adds a
dah. If the other paddle is closed at the end of a dah, the keyer
adds a dit.

Iambic B makes the decision at the *beginning* of the current element.
If both paddles are closed at the beginning of a dit, the keyer sends
dit-dah. If both paddles are closed at the beginning of a dah, the
keyer sends dah-dit.

CMOS Super Keyer (Logikeyer) makes the decision *one dit time into*
the current character. If the current element is a dit and both
paddles are closed at the end of the dit, the keyer adds a dah. If
the current element is a dah and both paddles are closed 1/3 of the
way through the dah, the keyer adds a dit.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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k6dgw

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

On 11/30/2014 8:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sun,11/30/2014 8:25 PM, Leroy Marion wrote:
>> Does not a paddle and keyer give you perfect timing?

Not quite. Refer to Page 40 of the October 1949 issue of QST for the
definitive work on spacing in International Morse code.
>
> It's been nearly 60 years since I went through that. Paddles and keyers
> did not exist -- we had "bugs," but did start on straight keys.

I've been licensed for a little over 61 years [1953]. I learned on a
straight key because that's what there was, I was 13, and couldn't
afford a bug. I sat for my code tests [5 WPM, 13 WPM, and 20 WPM] at
the FCC office in downtown Los Angeles with the FCC's J-38 screwed to
the desk, again because that's what there was.

I finally managed $5 for a war surplus J-36 bug built by Lionel of model
train fame. It looked like it had gone ashore with the Marines at Iwo
Jima, but it worked and the J-38 straight key was screwed to a piece of
plywood and migrated to the floor as a PTT foot switch.

In 1956, I and two teenage friends built "keyers." 9 or 10 dual
triodes, mine weighed about half a brick, and we used our bugs as
paddles. Self-completing dots and dashes, nothing else. Iambic hadn't
been invented yet.

Every Elecraft radio I know about has a modern, 21st century keyer built
in. Actually, most every modern radio has had a keyer built in for a
dozen years or more. Why would you not use it?

> Unless you're a real straight
> key "pro," they're far too slow for most on air CW, so if you're going
> to learn what you're going to use, I don't see the value in going
> through an intermediate step.

Precisely! "You *must* start on a straight key" is a litany from old
guys who want to make Morse hard for new folks, possibly because it was
hard for them. The first time I ever fired a gun was in combat training
from the same XM-177 automatic rifle I would carry thereafter. They did
not start us out with muzzle loading muskets and black powder. :-)

I haven't mastered Iambic, primarily because I've never tried to.
Incidentally, I think Iambic-B originally arose as a mistake in an early
keyer, I don't remember which one. There are other kinds of keyers,
Ultimatic is one, each has its following, pick one or more and begin
enjoying another of the many facets of ham radio! Just because I
learned on a J-38 61+ years ago does not mean everyone has to do
likewise today.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

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Al Gulseth-2

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by tomb18

A little late to the party here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I'm sort
of "old school" in favoring becoming proficient with a straight key first
before moving to a bug or a keyer. It makes sense: to use a sports analogy,
one needs to master the fundamentals before trying to move to fancier stuff.
(This was drilled into me by my now SK dad, who was a USCG radio op in WWII.
If you can send smoothly enough with a straight key to make the op on the
other end think you're using a keyer, you've accomplished something.)

That being said, as far as straight keys are concerned, in my book the
most "bang for the buck" is the Nye 320 series rectangular base with a Navy
knob (the stacked as opposed to single disk arrangement.) The 310 oval base
model and the J-38s etc. are nice keys but just not quite as smooth IMHO as
the 320. There are better ones but they are a lot more expensive.

Next, I'm going to differ here with what I've seen from several recommending
the Benchers. I owned one and was never impressed - to me "best bang for the
buck" in the paddle category are the Kents (SP-1 single lever, TP-1 twin.)
Another possible group of price to performance "sleepers" are the keys and
paddles from American Morse Equipment. The Begalis et al may be superior, but
I've never had my hands on one to compare. (Note that I tend to be somewhat
of a tightwad in going for what will get the job done properly without a
bunch of "extras" in features or expense.)

73, Al

On Sun November 30 2014 11:05:34 pm Tom Blahovici wrote:
> I like the comment about going through an intermediate step... Maybe I'll
> look at a paddle instead. So what's this about iambic? What are the types
> of paddles out there?
>
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Terry Myers

Getting Started With CW

Well not being really old or really new to CW, I take a path of thought
that has not been touched on, but trampled all around. I started on a
J-38 and I like it and us to this day, but I really prefer my keyer and
single lever paddle.

I started with the J-38 because that is all I had and keyers were out of
sight for me financially. I learned CW with the J-38 but getting to 20
WPM was hard that way. I finally built the accu-keyer from the handbook
and got together the money for a Vibroplex paddle. It was single lever
because the dual-lever stuff didn't exist at the time.

Things happened and I tried the another keyer and dual-lever and never
seemed to get the command of CW like I had with the first keyer and
single-lever paddle. I tried another keyer or two loaned by others who
left CW and had become phone only or near only ops. I found each keyer
did things a little differently and each time I had some relearning to
do. During this time I had a burglary and my single-lever was among the
missing and the dual-lever was the in thing. I got a new keyer and a
dual-leveler paddle. I tried and I tried squeeze paddles and I just had
too many CW habits by then. I just started using the dual-lever paddles
as if they were single-lever ones and the world got pretty good.

I also used a variety of rigs with built in keyers and each one seemed
to have different charismatics and different things that could be set.
I'd have to spend time with each rig to get it to my settings. This was
all a pain in my sitting down spot. So I decided to solve that problem
once and for all.

I decided on one keyer (Super CMOS III Memory Keyer kit version) and one
paddle (Single-lever Kent). I just use that combo and set the rig I
chose to use for a straight key and go to work. There is no fooling
around with settings and I am always in familiar territory.

The moral of the story is you tend to like what you first learn. With
that in mind, I'd pick one set-up I think would be around for a really
long time or one you could maintain and go with that one. Mine has
become the Super CMOS keyer and the single-lever Kent.

I use it on all of my rigs. For special events I still use the J-38
when I play SK-night and SKCC or FISTS games, all the rest get the Super
CMOS Keyer and Kent single-lever combo.

Regards & 73,

Terry, KQ5U

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Don Butler

K3 - 'ERR 12'

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

After about 10 minutes of running 10M CW during the contest yesterday my
KPA3 shut down with the "ERR 12" message and it reverted to bypass mode
just like the manual says it's supposed to. The KPA3 circuit breaker had
not tripped. I opened the box and could see nothing amiss. I removed both
leads/connectors on the breaker and tested it .. Not open . put the leads
back on after working and repositioning a bit . put it all back together and
fired up again.. And all worked fine . The relay was working and the fans
were working well at all four speeds..I didn't do much in the contest, but
got back on the air and did run for a total of about two hours . all on 10
meters. driving my amp with about 35-40 watts out as usual and CQing for
CQWW.

Late last evening I fired the rig up again, went to 160 meters and
immediately had the same problem on the first keydown . the KPA3 shut down
and went into bypass and ERR 12 came up. Again, the breaker was not open.
It does not seem to be temperature related as both shutdowns occurred with
little to zero prior transmitting . and the fans seem to be kicking on when
they're supposed to.

This morning I opened the box again but this time removed the KPA3 board to
check it out. nothing obvious on inspection. Thinking that it may be a
possible connector problem I carefully worked the board back into place and
made certain that it was fully seated. Put all back together and, again,
everything seemed to work as it should. I then spent about 20 minutes
transmitting CW on all bands at 100 watts . there has been no 'ERR 12' up to
this point .. The PA temp leveled out about 38-39 degrees C while
transmitting. Supply voltage is a solid 13.8V .... and holds at about 12.0V
on continuous keydown at 100W. So all seems to be back to working as it
should. But something must be amiss and I'm just waiting for it all to
happen again.

Has anyone had a similar experience? any ideas? I'd appreciate feedback .

Thanks in advance,

Don, N5LZ

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