Elecraft

K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

Classic

List

Threaded

63 messages Options

1234

Phil Hystad-3

Re: Getting Started With CW

My story...

Learned CW when I was 9 years old, taught by ham uncle (also a ship radio operator). I used to listen to ham radio operators CW and got my speed up a little bit before I ever got my Novice license so passing that code test was easy-as-pie.

As a novice, started with J-38 (I didn't even know that other kinds of keys existed). But, I soon bought a Vibroplex Original, brand new for the cost of about $36 (~1966) as my speed went beyond my capable skills with the J-38. At the finish of my Novice year, I was easily handling both RX/TX at 20+ wpm.

Big huge gap of 38 years between my Novice CW activity and getting licensed again in 2004. I was all SSB until 2007 when the "bug" for CW hit me again. How much time to relearn CW?

It took two weeks of listening to CW traffic to get my head in gear again after 40 years of not hearing any CW at all. I was up to about 15 wpm after two weeks of one or two hours a day of listening (never used a code practice program). I decided to try my first QSO. I called CQ and got a reply. In the middle of the QSO I got so flustered (using a J-38 again) that I had to abort. I sent my apologies to my contact via e-mail. I just did not practice enough with the J-38.

So, practice-practice-practice on the J-38 for another week and I was ready. After a few weeks of nothing but CW contacts on the J-38 I realized that my operating time was limited to my hands sending at about 12 to 13 wpm on the J-38. I just wasn't capable of anything faster.

I bought myself a used bencher paddle and started practicing. I liked it right off that bat and my skills got better and now I am back up to about 20 to 22 wpm. I have tried sending at 25 wpm with the paddle but I make more mistakes then I am happy with so I need to spend time on that or learn better techniques. Being self-taught on the paddle there are some skills I am sure have not been honed yet. Oh, I never did learn to do squeeze technique on the paddle and I still don't know what Iambic A or B mean (yes, I have looked that up but I keep forgetting).

My main fault that limits my speed skills with the paddle is my limited operating time. I am 90 percent CW but I don't get that much operating time on a daily basis. I had planned to do a lot of activity in this weekend's CQ DX CW contest but missed out due to all kinds of other interruptions.

However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs (no flame wars from hollow state players).

73, phil, K7PEH

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Allen

Re: Getting Started With CW

With all the keyers out there, built in and otherwise, there should be no
bad CW heard, but as anyone who listens can attest, there is, lots of it.

One thing I suggest is copying W1AW code practice, and bulletins once your
speed can handle the 18 wpm used for Bulletins. That is "perfect" code,
weight, spacing etc., supposedly. Get used to what that sounds like, and
imitate it!

Code proficiency comes from a combination of talent, effort and want to.
Some are so talented they pick it up easily with little effort. Some make
an effort, but don't really want to do it, and that impedes progress. Want
to overcomes a certain deficiency of talent.

73 de W6OGC Jim Allen

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My story...
>
> Learned CW when I was 9 years old, taught by ham uncle (also a ship radio
> operator). I used to listen to ham radio operators CW and got my speed up
> a little bit before I ever got my Novice license so passing that code test
> was easy-as-pie.
>
> As a novice, started with J-38 (I didn't even know that other kinds of
> keys existed). But, I soon bought a Vibroplex Original, brand new for the
> cost of about $36 (~1966) as my speed went beyond my capable skills with
> the J-38. At the finish of my Novice year, I was easily handling both
> RX/TX at 20+ wpm.
>
> Big huge gap of 38 years between my Novice CW activity and getting
> licensed again in 2004. I was all SSB until 2007 when the "bug" for CW hit
> me again. How much time to relearn CW?
>
> It took two weeks of listening to CW traffic to get my head in gear again
> after 40 years of not hearing any CW at all. I was up to about 15 wpm
> after two weeks of one or two hours a day of listening (never used a code
> practice program). I decided to try my first QSO. I called CQ and got a
> reply. In the middle of the QSO I got so flustered (using a J-38 again)
> that I had to abort. I sent my apologies to my contact via e-mail. I just
> did not practice enough with the J-38.
>
> So, practice-practice-practice on the J-38 for another week and I was
> ready. After a few weeks of nothing but CW contacts on the J-38 I realized
> that my operating time was limited to my hands sending at about 12 to 13
> wpm on the J-38. I just wasn't capable of anything faster.
>
> I bought myself a used bencher paddle and started practicing. I liked it
> right off that bat and my skills got better and now I am back up to about
> 20 to 22 wpm. I have tried sending at 25 wpm with the paddle but I make
> more mistakes then I am happy with so I need to spend time on that or learn
> better techniques. Being self-taught on the paddle there are some skills I
> am sure have not been honed yet. Oh, I never did learn to do squeeze
> technique on the paddle and I still don't know what Iambic A or B mean
> (yes, I have looked that up but I keep forgetting).
>
> My main fault that limits my speed skills with the paddle is my limited
> operating time. I am 90 percent CW but I don't get that much operating
> time on a daily basis. I had planned to do a lot of activity in this
> weekend's CQ DX CW contest but missed out due to all kinds of other
> interruptions.
>
> However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would
> recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right
> from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs
> (no flame wars from hollow state players).
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

On Mon,12/1/2014 5:52 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> But PLEASE DO develop the habit of using the characters "DE" to preface
> the sending of your callsign, whether calling CQ or in exchange with
> another station.

NO, NO, NO! (CAPS added for emphasis). When a contester (or DXpedition)
is running (calling CQ), we EXPECT to hear YOUR callsign, and we start
typing that call in the entry window. Lots of calls begin with D, so
when someone sends DE, we must backspace. DON'T send his call first --
he knows his call -- only send yours. Same problem with typing. Further,
sending the old CW elements like DE, K, KN, and QSL during a contest are
time-wasters equivalent to "please copy" on SSB. Most good contesters
use "TU" or "R" and end a QSO by sending "TU" followed by their callsign.

Another rule -- NEVER resend anything that the other station has copied
correctly. If the other station sent your call correctly when he
responded to you, don't send it again. Send it again ONLY if you think
he got it wrong.

Count me among those who HATE cut numbers other than for 5NN.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

tomb18

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Hi everyone. I'm the OP here and I thank everyone who replied. I've had an order of magnitude more mail than I received on the list. I can't answer all of them due to a broken elbow but I thank everyone who replied. Lots to digest, hopefully will be on the air soon.
73's Tom

On Dec 1, 2014 1:16 PM, Jim Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> With all the keyers out there, built in and otherwise, there should be no
> bad CW heard, but as anyone who listens can attest, there is, lots of it.
>
> One thing I suggest is copying W1AW code practice, and bulletins once your
> speed can handle the 18 wpm used for Bulletins. That is "perfect" code,
> weight, spacing etc., supposedly. Get used to what that sounds like, and
> imitate it!
>
> Code proficiency comes from a combination of talent, effort and want to.
> Some are so talented they pick it up easily with little effort. Some make
> an effort, but don't really want to do it, and that impedes progress. Want
> to overcomes a certain deficiency of talent.
>
> 73 de W6OGC Jim Allen
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > My story...
> >
> > Learned CW when I was 9 years old, taught by ham uncle (also a ship radio
> > operator). I used to listen to ham radio operators CW and got my speed up
> > a little bit before I ever got my Novice license so passing that code test
> > was easy-as-pie.
> >
> > As a novice, started with J-38 (I didn't even know that other kinds of
> > keys existed). But, I soon bought a Vibroplex Original, brand new for the
> > cost of about $36 (~1966) as my speed went beyond my capable skills with
> > the J-38. At the finish of my Novice year, I was easily handling both
> > RX/TX at 20+ wpm.
> >
> > Big huge gap of 38 years between my Novice CW activity and getting
> > licensed again in 2004. I was all SSB until 2007 when the "bug" for CW hit
> > me again. How much time to relearn CW?
> >
> > It took two weeks of listening to CW traffic to get my head in gear again
> > after 40 years of not hearing any CW at all. I was up to about 15 wpm
> > after two weeks of one or two hours a day of listening (never used a code
> > practice program). I decided to try my first QSO. I called CQ and got a
> > reply. In the middle of the QSO I got so flustered (using a J-38 again)
> > that I had to abort. I sent my apologies to my contact via e-mail. I just
> > did not practice enough with the J-38.
> >
> > So, practice-practice-practice on the J-38 for another week and I was
> > ready. After a few weeks of nothing but CW contacts on the J-38 I realized
> > that my operating time was limited to my hands sending at about 12 to 13
> > wpm on the J-38. I just wasn't capable of anything faster.
> >
> > I bought myself a used bencher paddle and started practicing. I liked it
> > right off that bat and my skills got better and now I am back up to about
> > 20 to 22 wpm. I have tried sending at 25 wpm with the paddle but I make
> > more mistakes then I am happy with so I need to spend time on that or learn
> > better techniques. Being self-taught on the paddle there are some skills I
> > am sure have not been honed yet. Oh, I never did learn to do squeeze
> > technique on the paddle and I still don't know what Iambic A or B mean
> > (yes, I have looked that up but I keep forgetting).
> >
> > My main fault that limits my speed skills with the paddle is my limited
> > operating time. I am 90 percent CW but I don't get that much operating
> > time on a daily basis. I had planned to do a lot of activity in this
> > weekend's CQ DX CW contest but missed out due to all kinds of other
> > interruptions.
> >
> > However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would
> > recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right
> > from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs
> > (no flame wars from hollow state players).
> >
> > 73, phil, K7PEH
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

EricJ-2

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)

I'm sold on single-lever paddles. I have a handbuilt one from G3YUH, and
I have a Kent single-lever that is outstanding. Very smooth to operate
and nicely finished. It's my favorite key now. I never could get
interested in iambic keying which is more of an affectation than
anything useful. The single-lever paddle was a very easy transition from
years of using dual-lever paddles.

I have two Benchers: chrome and black. The black one I used mobile every
day for 5 years when I was active in County Hunting, and traveling every
week to the Bay Area from So Cal. It sat on the passenger seat and I
keyed it with my right hand (I'm left handed). I never thought to tether
it and as a result it occasionally hit the firewall when I had to brake
really hard. After 5 years, the only problem was the rivets on the
plastic finger pieces loosened. The chrome one uses screws, but the
black one has crappy rivets. It's a simple, tough design that is easy to
set up and holds adjustment if you don't let it fly around untethered in
a vehicle.

Starting out, the Benchers would be a good choice. They're a good choice
even with experience, but you can find them used fairly cheap and they
will give good service for a new CW op until they learn their own
preferences.

Eric
KE6US

On 11/30/2014 11:18 PM, Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) wrote:

> I couldn't agree more. I'm glad I finally discovered the single-lever paddle
> after more than ten years of struggling with iambic. It is so much easier to
> use the single-lever and it is much more forgiving for small timing errors.
>
> I wrote about it on my blog some time ago:
> http://la3za.blogspot.no/2013/06/the-advantage-of-single-lever-paddle.html
> After that I got the tiny Palm single-lever paddle.
>
>
> Barry K3NDM wrote
>> Tom,
>> As a beginner, don't get hung up on iambic.
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Sverre, LA3ZA
>
> K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
> LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
> LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-CW-decoder-and-CQ-CW-contest-tp7595261p7595290.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

Alan Bloom

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Terry Myers

On 12/01/2014 09:36 AM, Terry wrote:
>
> ... I started on a J-38

I do think a straight key is good when you're starting out because it
forces you to concentrate on correct timing. One trick to get your
timing correct is to set up your code-practice software to send a known
text at a slow speed. Using a code practice oscillator, send along with
it. You'll get immediate feedback on your timing errors and will soon
be sending perfect code.

That will stand you in good stead when you then switch to a speed key,
either a semi-automatic bug or a fully-automatic keyer.

Alan N1AL

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob-270

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Well we all have our CW learning stories. So here is mine and can be taken as
a tip-suggestion-opinion.

At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club, Nutley
Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn the basics of
sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send with the "wrong" hand
since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so tried right handed. At that point
it was equally poor with either hand. But I learned it and over time it was a
great advantage as the better hand was free. I could send with one hand and log
or do other things with the other. Back in the old days when logs were in the
carbon stick and dead tree format it was always interesting to watch at FD etc
OPS that only used one hand as they chased the pencil that rolled away when they
put it down. Sending CW is not a high dexterity thing like writing or other fine
work.

Whether you start with a straight key or paddle this is appropriate. Sending CW
is a finesse rather than a force mode of doing it. If your chasing the key or
paddle around that is excessive force and adding more weight is not the
solution. Same goes for it being tiresome or generating pain and discomfort.
To much tension and force being used. Think about it, you need movement of only
thousands of an inch not the key to move across the desk. Learn to relax and
the movement is only slight with the fingers or wrist or combination of the two.

Confession time... I hated CW. When my novice expired I got a 5 WPM tech and
held it until the mid 60's. I lived in an apartment with an indoor antenna and
wanted to get on 10 to participate in the clubs 10 meter net. I struggled
through and got to 13 WPM to get a General ticket. I made the net and called CQ
on phone until I was blue in the face and never made a contact. 1st CQ on CW
was replied to instantly by an SP station. That set the hook and I'd guess I'm
75% CW since.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR & K2TKR
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Ron van Doremalen

Re: Getting Started With CW

Hi all,

Only read about sending CW via straight key or paddles.
To my opinion the work starts with a good reading ability.

Some tips from personal experience:
- don't start with low speed CW. It makes you think in dits and dahs instead
of sound.
- so stay away from the 10WPM wall - start at 12 WPM or even higher.
- don't touch a key until you are able to solid copy 12-15WPM and are
familiar with the sound.
- stay away from plain text until you are able to copy random almost 100%.
It prevents ahead reading of what is yet to come.

Spacing between letters/words....unless needed stay away from this all it
might enable you to start thinking.

My CW learning cycle was starting with 8WPM which i managed quite quickly,
but trying to get at higher speeds hit the 10WPM wall.
With help of some great HAMS with weekly execercises (tapes) and at home
drinking too stong coffee i managed to get over the 10WPM wall, passed the
12WPM CW exam for the A (now F) license. The great Hams fooled me as i was
already trained at 15 WPM. Exam was easy.

Didn't use CW after passing. Stupid but too late.

Always had issues with 0-9 characters as i still didn't achieve to unprogram
my dits/dahs decyphering.
Tried many times to get back to the old skills but my brain wants to
decypher still.

Try the software of G4FON which lets you learn the characters per character
and other real life situations if needed.

Ron - PA3FAT
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob
Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 8:14 PM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW

Well we all have our CW learning stories. So here is mine and can be taken
as
a tip-suggestion-opinion.

At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club, Nutley
Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn the basics
of
sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send with the "wrong" hand
since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so tried right handed. At that
point
it was equally poor with either hand. But I learned it and over time it was
a
great advantage as the better hand was free. I could send with one hand and
log
or do other things with the other. Back in the old days when logs were in
the
carbon stick and dead tree format it was always interesting to watch at FD
etc
OPS that only used one hand as they chased the pencil that rolled away when
they
put it down. Sending CW is not a high dexterity thing like writing or other
fine
work.

Whether you start with a straight key or paddle this is appropriate.
Sending CW
is a finesse rather than a force mode of doing it. If your chasing the key
or
paddle around that is excessive force and adding more weight is not the
solution. Same goes for it being tiresome or generating pain and
discomfort.
To much tension and force being used. Think about it, you need movement of
only
thousands of an inch not the key to move across the desk. Learn to relax
and
the movement is only slight with the fingers or wrist or combination of the
two.

Confession time... I hated CW. When my novice expired I got a 5 WPM tech
and
held it until the mid 60's. I lived in an apartment with an indoor antenna
and
wanted to get on 10 to participate in the clubs 10 meter net. I struggled
through and got to 13 WPM to get a General ticket. I made the net and
called CQ
on phone until I was blue in the face and never made a contact. 1st CQ on
CW
was replied to instantly by an SP station. That set the hook and I'd guess
I'm
75% CW since.

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR & K2TKR
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

KEN-3

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Terry Myers

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Terry <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The moral of the story is you tend to like what you first learn.

That has not been my experience, it probably depends more on what you have to start with.

I started out with a Japanese J-38 clone and then later was given a WWII surplus Vibroplex (I still have both of them on the operating desk.) I’m not sure how good I ever was with the bug but I would not subject the airwaves today to my current horrible fist with it!

In my case, my first “electronic” keyer was a homebrew keyer out of the 1960’s Handbook, a pair of 12AU7 tubes IIRC and a paddle made out of a pair of back to back J-38 clones. Well I survived that for a long time and must have been fairly proficient since I operated high level NTS without being banned ;-)

Eventually I bought an MFJ keyer and a real paddle (Bencher) and then the K3 with the Bencher. Either one is fine by me but the K3 is of course more convenient. Bottom line, I would never go back to that early Handbook keyer and the back to back J-38s! never!

Speaking of bad fists brings back the memories of a certain W8D**. When you heard him on a traffic net, you either laughed or cried. Laughed if someone else had to copy his traffic, cried if you had to copy it! Cliff just sent dots and more dots, you had to figure out which ones should have been dashes because of the extra spacing!

> from: phil, K7PEH

> However, thinking back of experiences: in today's world, I would recommend skipping any straight key and learn with a keyer and paddle right from the start. I think straight keys are antiques like tube-based rigs (no flame wars from hollow state players).
>
>

Would you really suggest someone starting out at 5 wpm use a paddle and keyer?

73,
WA8JXM
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

k6dgw

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Bob-270

This is more common than one might think, but only for left-handers it
seems. I'm left-handed and my Elmer, W6RMK, was too. He taught me to
send with my right hand so I could write legibly in my log. In those
days, you logged every transmission, whether or not it resulted in a QSO.

A number of years ago, we had a little survey on this list. A total of
137 responded, about 22% south paws. A little more than 50% of those
learned to send/paddle right. 0% of the north paws sent/paddled left.
From this and answers to some of the other questions in the survey, it
appears that most right-handers are *really* right-handed [some even
said so]. Left-handers seem to be somewhat more flexible, maybe because
we live in a right-handed world.

I currently have a second paddle set up left on the WinKey-USB to the
left of the laptop which I've started using left-handed in casual QSO's
since it's more natural for me and I no longer have to write in my
logbook. I still contest with the paddle on the right since I can type
faster with my left hand.

I'm not hearing all the poor CW others are talking about. In CQ WW CW,
I made a note of two: one had the weight set very high and his dots
resembled his dashes. Theotheroneforgottherearespacesbetweenwords.
Quite a few of the Summits On The Air crowd are learning CW and, while
they may make a few more mistakes, there is nothing wrong with their
sending. The majority of those ops are using embedded keyers in their rigs.

In the end, do what works best for you.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 12/1/2014 11:14 AM, Bob wrote:

> At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club,
> Nutley Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn
> the basics of sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send
> with the "wrong" hand since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so
> tried right handed.
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

KEN-3

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic
> B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow)
> paddle operation.
>
> There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing
> element decision is made:

Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle.

Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong.

Thanks,
Ken WA8JXM

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Richard Gillingham

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

You’re not alone. My first experience with paddles was long after having used a ‘bug’.. Hence… … wobble wrist… I have never gotten even remotely adept at ‘squeeze keying’… Still screw stuff up with iambic etc. paddles/keyers. Nevertheless, I prefer paddles/keyer to a straight key at anything over about 15 wpm..

73

Gil, W1RG

From: Ken
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎December‎ ‎1‎, ‎2014 ‎4‎:‎02‎ ‎PM
To: Joe Subich, W4TV
Cc: [hidden email]

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic
> B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow)
> paddle operation.
>
> There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing
> element decision is made:

Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle.

Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong.

Thanks,
Ken WA8JXM

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by KEN-3

> Am I missing something?

No, with the mention of Iambic, I assumed squeeze technique. If one
uses a single lever paddle or "slaps" dual lever paddles, Iambic A/B
or Super CMOS are all the same <G>.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 2014-12-01 4:00 PM, Ken wrote:

>
>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> *IF* one must start out with paddles/keyer, learn on Iambic A. Iambic
>> B was a logic error in the AccuKeyer and simply covers up sloppy (slow)
>> paddle operation.
>>
>> There are really three Iambic modes - based on where the trailing
>> element decision is made:
>
>
> Am I missing something? Have I been doing it wrong for years? Yes I have an Iambic paddle and of course the K3 offers Iambic choice BUT I NEVER USE IT. I don’t touch both paddles at the same time, my wrist rocks back and forth and I never squeeze the paddle.
>
> Seriously I am asking if I’m doing something wrong.
>
> Thanks,
> Ken WA8JXM
>
>

dmb@lightstream.net

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Sorry - I wasn't clear. Of course it makes no sense to send "DE" prior to
calling anyone if the only thing you're sending is your own call.

I was referring mostly to folks who are calling CQ, especially those with
a bad fist, and under poor conditions. I've heard stations with an unusual
callsign who call CQ, send their call maybe three times with NO spacing
between iterations. If you miss the start of the call, it takes a lot of
work to sort out the longstringofpossibilitiesfromthemess. By simply
sending "CQ CQ CQ DE ..." the DE acts as a heads-up that "here is the
start of my call", which gives one a fighting chance.

Under good conditions, it's not a problem.

I'm not a contester - ever - though I like chasing DX and actually enjoy
trying to work out a strategy for pileups. And no, I never send "DE" under
those conditions -- or even my callsign again -- unless I know the DX
station has it wrong.

73, Dale
WA8SRA

> On Mon,12/1/2014 5:52 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> But PLEASE DO develop the habit of using the characters "DE" to preface
>> the sending of your callsign, whether calling CQ or in exchange with
>> another station.
>
> NO, NO, NO! (CAPS added for emphasis). When a contester (or DXpedition)
> is running (calling CQ), we EXPECT to hear YOUR callsign, and we start
> typing that call in the entry window. Lots of calls begin with D, so
> when someone sends DE, we must backspace. DON'T send his call first --
> he knows his call -- only send yours. Same problem with typing. Further,
> sending the old CW elements like DE, K, KN, and QSL during a contest are
> time-wasters equivalent to "please copy" on SSB. Most good contesters
> use "TU" or "R" and end a QSO by sending "TU" followed by their callsign.
>
> Another rule -- NEVER resend anything that the other station has copied
> correctly. If the other station sent your call correctly when he
> responded to you, don't send it again. Send it again ONLY if you think
> he got it wrong.
>
> Count me among those who HATE cut numbers other than for 5NN.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

KEN-3

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by KEN-3

Ah ah! So THAT (Farnsworth) is the source of the horrible CW I hear (fast characters with excess spacing!)

Sorry but I will disagree with that approach. It teaches plain bad CW. (Okay, when I went to school they didn’t have to teach the alphabet with silly bellies and stuff either. We learned to read the English language, not pictures and so we were able to progress beyond picture books and hieroglyphics. Dumbing down elementary teaching has been a disaster and I think dumbing down CW is in the same category.)

I learned CW by myself without any crutches. Sorry but I never noticed a 10wpm barrier either, it took me 4 months as a novice and 328 on the air QSOs to pass my General ticket (13wpm in front of an FCC examiner.) I think it is totally hilarious that you mention a “conspiracy by the FCC” to prevent people from getting a General class ticket back when most hams had General class tickets!

Ken WA8JXM

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 12/1/2014 12:17 PM, Ken wrote:
>
>> Would you really suggest someone starting out at 5 wpm use a paddle
>> and keyer?
>
> Yes. It's called Farnsworth and there is both a good body of empirical evidence as well as explainable theory that it works better than other methods. Learning Morse has a direct parallel with how kids learn to read. Initially, they learn the components of the letters. For example, "D" is a post with a big tummy, "B" is a post with two small tummies. They very shortly learn to recognize letters as whole objects by their overall shape, not their components.
>
> Farnsworth uses a character speed of about 20 WPM, however the characters are spaced however as much as needed for a given, slower, net speed. 20 WPM is a too fast for counting dits and dahs, and one learns to recognize letters by their "sound shape." For me, "P" sounds like crossing a low round-topped hill, whereas "X" sounds like crossing a narrow ravine. "R" is more like going over a speed bump.
>
> When sending to the student, you want as precise Morse at a character speed of 20 WPM as you can get, so teacher uses a keyer and paddle. When student is sending, you want him to make the same "sound shapes" he's burning into his brain on receiving. If he needs 1 WPM spacing to recognize the sound shape and say or write it, that's fine, 20 WPM characters with about 10-12 second spaces is about 1 WPM.

KEN-3

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by KEN-3

Yes, I’ve looked up and understand the theory of Iambic keying but 1) it’s been weird to try and 2) I haven’t noticed any advantage for me. Now maybe there is an advantage at higher speeds? But when I’ve run above 30 wpm, I use a keyboard ;-)

73,
Ken WA8JXM

> On Dec 1, 2014, at 4:41 PM, G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In short, yes you're doing it wrong. :-)
>
> That said, if it works for you, who cares?
>
> The correct way to use a twin paddle iambic keyer is to press on paddle first, fo9llowed by a squeeze action to hold both paddles on, but depending on what character you're trying to send.
>
> For example. CQ (for a right handed keyer) would use the following sequence: Press right paddle and immediately squeeze both paddles without letting go the right paddle. Hold that squeeze until the first -.-. is sent, then let go for the inter-character space. To send the 'Q' press the right paddle and wait until the start of the second dash, then squeeze both paddles and immediately let go of the left hand paddle whilst continuing to briefly hold the right hand paddle until you're sure the entire --.- sequence has been sent, then let go the right paddle.ready to send whatever you want to come next.
>
> I know this sounds long winded, but once you get used to it, it's very intuitive and very fast and accurate, as long as you practice it. Once you get proficient in that mode, you don't even think about it any more.

vk2rq

Re: Getting Started With CW

Well, I use iambic keying (mode B, because I learned to use a paddle on an ICOM radio, which would only do mode B. Anyway, this was before I even knew there was such a thing as mode A and mode B).

The following article questions the value of iambic keying, makes for an interesting read:
http://www.morsex.com/pubs/iambicmyth.pdf

For the speeds I typically plod along at, around the 20wpm mark, the iambic keying works quite well, and feels nice.

73,
Matt VK2RQ

> On 2 Dec 2014, at 11:37 am, Ken <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yes, I’ve looked up and understand the theory of Iambic keying but 1) it’s been weird to try and 2) I haven’t noticed any advantage for me. Now maybe there is an advantage at higher speeds? But when I’ve run above 30 wpm, I use a keyboard ;-)
>
> 73,
> Ken WA8JXM
>
>
>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 4:41 PM, G4GNX <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> In short, yes you're doing it wrong. :-)
>>
>> That said, if it works for you, who cares?
>>
>> The correct way to use a twin paddle iambic keyer is to press on paddle first, fo9llowed by a squeeze action to hold both paddles on, but depending on what character you're trying to send.
>>
>> For example. CQ (for a right handed keyer) would use the following sequence: Press right paddle and immediately squeeze both paddles without letting go the right paddle. Hold that squeeze until the first -.-. is sent, then let go for the inter-character space. To send the 'Q' press the right paddle and wait until the start of the second dash, then squeeze both paddles and immediately let go of the left hand paddle whilst continuing to briefly hold the right hand paddle until you're sure the entire --.- sequence has been sent, then let go the right paddle.ready to send whatever you want to come next.
>>
>> I know this sounds long winded, but once you get used to it, it's very intuitive and very fast and accurate, as long as you practice it. Once you get proficient in that mode, you don't even think about it any more.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

vk2rq

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by k6dgw

I'm one of those left-handlers who learned to send on the paddle either right hand -- that way, no need to put down the pen :-) When I learned the straight key though, in order to get my ham ticket, I learned left-handed, and still can't use a straight key with my right :-(

73,
Matt VK2RQ

> On 2 Dec 2014, at 7:31 am, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is more common than one might think, but only for left-handers it seems. I'm left-handed and my Elmer, W6RMK, was too. He taught me to send with my right hand so I could write legibly in my log. In those days, you logged every transmission, whether or not it resulted in a QSO.
>
> A number of years ago, we had a little survey on this list. A total of 137 responded, about 22% south paws. A little more than 50% of those learned to send/paddle right. 0% of the north paws sent/paddled left. From this and answers to some of the other questions in the survey, it appears that most right-handers are *really* right-handed [some even said so]. Left-handers seem to be somewhat more flexible, maybe because we live in a right-handed world.
>
> I currently have a second paddle set up left on the WinKey-USB to the left of the laptop which I've started using left-handed in casual QSO's since it's more natural for me and I no longer have to write in my logbook. I still contest with the paddle on the right since I can type faster with my left hand.
>
> I'm not hearing all the poor CW others are talking about. In CQ WW CW, I made a note of two: one had the weight set very high and his dots resembled his dashes. Theotheroneforgottherearespacesbetweenwords. Quite a few of the Summits On The Air crowd are learning CW and, while they may make a few more mistakes, there is nothing wrong with their sending. The majority of those ops are using embedded keyers in their rigs.
>
> In the end, do what works best for you.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> - Northern California Contest Club
> - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
> - www.cqp.org
>
>
>
>> On 12/1/2014 11:14 AM, Bob wrote:
>>
>> At 13 in 1956 I signed up for a Novice class at the local radio club,
>> Nutley Amateur Radio Society (Nutley, NJ). When it came time to learn
>> the basics of sending the instructor, W2TJD (SK) made us try to send
>> with the "wrong" hand since we were learning anyway. I'm a lefty so
>> tried right handed.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Getting Started With CW

In reply to this post by KEN-3

Farnsworth uses a character speed of 15 WPM. Koch (German for Cook) pronounced Cook, not kotch uses 25 WPM. ARRL Code Practice uses Farnsworth for Code Practice for speeds below 15 WPM. I find the Koch method difficult to copy, but Farnsworth not so bad and I use it for Bug sending. when I need to slow down a bit. The Koch method may be a good method for the Military or Commercial trainees to get up to 25 WPM fast, but I don't see a place for it in ham radio and the Military and Commercial do not use CW any more. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
From: Ken <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Getting Started With CW

Ah ah! So THAT (Farnsworth) is the source of the horrible CW I hear (fast characters with excess spacing!)

Sorry but I will disagree with that approach. It teaches plain bad CW. (Okay, when I went to school they didn’t have to teach the alphabet with silly bellies and stuff either. We learned to read the English language, not pictures and so we were able to progress beyond picture books and hieroglyphics. Dumbing down elementary teaching has been a disaster and I think dumbing down CW is in the same category.)

I learned CW by myself without any crutches. Sorry but I never noticed a 10wpm barrier either, it took me 4 months as a novice and 328 on the air QSOs to pass my General ticket (13wpm in front of an FCC examiner.) I think it is totally hilarious that you mention a “conspiracy by the FCC” to prevent people from getting a General class ticket back when most hams had General class tickets!

Ken WA8JXM

>
> There is an almost universal "plateau" at about 10-11 WPM for most people learning Morse. In the later 50's, a conspiracy theory alleged the FCC set the General code speed at 13 WPM on purpose because of that.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

I encountered an operator named DEAN who sent it as de an and I kept copying it as from An. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 CW decoder and CQ CW contest

Sorry - I wasn't clear. Of course it makes no sense to send "DE" prior to
calling anyone if the only thing you're sending is your own call.

I was referring mostly to folks who are calling CQ, especially those with
a bad fist, and under poor conditions. I've heard stations with an unusual
callsign who call CQ, send their call maybe three times with NO spacing
between iterations. If you miss the start of the call, it takes a lot of
work to sort out the longstringofpossibilitiesfromthemess. By simply
sending "CQ CQ CQ DE ..." the DE acts as a heads-up that "here is the
start of my call", which gives one a fighting chance.

Under good conditions, it's not a problem.

I'm not a contester - ever - though I like chasing DX and actually enjoy
trying to work out a strategy for pileups. And no, I never send "DE" under
those conditions -- or even my callsign again -- unless I know the DX
station has it wrong.

73, Dale
WA8SRA

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

1234