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K3 Chirp

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Dana Roode

K3 Chirp

It was reported today by several folks who heard my CW signal that I have a
bad chirp - I was operating on 20 meters during CWT. I listened to the
signal myself (my station is 80 miles away and I can listen on a local
transceiver). Someone also sent me a recording.

I've been using the same K3, KPA1500, and Astron power supply for many
years. I shut off the amp and could still hear the chirp.

One thought is that it has something to do with my power supply, although I
saw a previous posting that made that seem unlikely (below). Wayne
mentioned something about KSYSN3 calibration, I had not heard of that
before, I will look into it.

If anyone has experienced a problem with chirp on a K3, let me know (it is
a K3 not a K3S).

Dana

In reply to this post
<http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-past-chirp-report-tp7625892p7625898.html>
by Doug Smith [W7KF]
Under normal circumstances, it is impossible for a K3 or K3S for exhibit
"chirp." The synthesizer settles well before the rig switches from TX to RX
or vice-versa.

The KSYN3A (newer synth, used in the K3S) settles in well under 1 ms thanks
to its entirely digital architecture (UHF DSPLL, divided down).

The KSYN3 (older synth, used on the K3) uses a more traditional PLL with
its VCO running at the target output frequency. It normally settles in
under 5 ms. It can take a bit longer depending on the actual PLL voltage
and VCO frequency. This is accounted for in firmware.

If your KSYN3 were not properly calibrated, you might see a longer settling
time on one or two bands, most likely 6 meters. If you suspect this, refer
to the CONFIG:VCO MD menu entry. The K3 includes an automatic VCO
calibration routine that requires no test equipment and takes only a couple
of minutes to run.

Wayne
N6KR

On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:57 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]
<http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7625904&i=0>>
wrote:

> In a synthesized VFO rig like the K3S, any tendency to "chirp" is almost
always related to the synthesizer momentarily losing frequency (or phase)
lock.
>
> While that could conceivably be linked to change in the power bus
voltage, it's highly unlikely since the bus is isolated from the actual
synthesizer by voltage regulators and filters.
>
> OTOH, the OO's report was strictly advisory. I have experienced spurious
OO reports over my >50 years of pounding brass, and one that turned out to
be accurate when I blew the filter caps in the transmitter and did not
notice, nor did the stations I was working report the hum on my signal.
When I got a "chirp" report one time (on a homebrew rig) and was unable to
hear it myself, I sent a friendly letter to the OO. He replied that he was
"almost sure" he could detect a "slight chirp" so he sent the card.
>
> So my advice is that if you can't repeat what the OO observed, don't
worry about it.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
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Lou Mecseri

Re: K3 Chirp

I love chirps, it reminds of the real good old days when I was young.

We used to be able to recognize station by their distinct chirp.

I heard one station in the recent FQP with one, the chirp give me a very
warm feeling.

I guess, it does not take much to make an old ham warm and happy.

73, Lou KE1F

On 4/29/2021 00:21, Dana Roode K6NR wrote:

> It was reported today by several folks who heard my CW signal that I have a
> bad chirp - I was operating on 20 meters during CWT. I listened to the
> signal myself (my station is 80 miles away and I can listen on a local
> transceiver). Someone also sent me a recording.
>
> I've been using the same K3, KPA1500, and Astron power supply for many
> years. I shut off the amp and could still hear the chirp.
>
> One thought is that it has something to do with my power supply, although I
> saw a previous posting that made that seem unlikely (below). Wayne
> mentioned something about KSYSN3 calibration, I had not heard of that
> before, I will look into it.
>
> If anyone has experienced a problem with chirp on a K3, let me know (it is
> a K3 not a K3S).
>
> Dana
>
>
>
> In reply to this post
> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-past-chirp-report-tp7625892p7625898.html>
> by Doug Smith [W7KF]
> Under normal circumstances, it is impossible for a K3 or K3S for exhibit
> "chirp." The synthesizer settles well before the rig switches from TX to RX
> or vice-versa.
>
> The KSYN3A (newer synth, used in the K3S) settles in well under 1 ms thanks
> to its entirely digital architecture (UHF DSPLL, divided down).
>
> The KSYN3 (older synth, used on the K3) uses a more traditional PLL with
> its VCO running at the target output frequency. It normally settles in
> under 5 ms. It can take a bit longer depending on the actual PLL voltage
> and VCO frequency. This is accounted for in firmware.
>
> If your KSYN3 were not properly calibrated, you might see a longer settling
> time on one or two bands, most likely 6 meters. If you suspect this, refer
> to the CONFIG:VCO MD menu entry. The K3 includes an automatic VCO
> calibration routine that requires no test equipment and takes only a couple
> of minutes to run.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:57 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]
> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7625904&i=0>>
> wrote:
>
>> In a synthesized VFO rig like the K3S, any tendency to "chirp" is almost
> always related to the synthesizer momentarily losing frequency (or phase)
> lock.
>> While that could conceivably be linked to change in the power bus
> voltage, it's highly unlikely since the bus is isolated from the actual
> synthesizer by voltage regulators and filters.
>> OTOH, the OO's report was strictly advisory. I have experienced spurious
> OO reports over my >50 years of pounding brass, and one that turned out to
> be accurate when I blew the filter caps in the transmitter and did not
> notice, nor did the stations I was working report the hum on my signal.
> When I got a "chirp" report one time (on a homebrew rig) and was unable to
> hear it myself, I sent a friendly letter to the OO. He replied that he was
> "almost sure" he could detect a "slight chirp" so he sent the card.
>> So my advice is that if you can't repeat what the OO observed, don't
> worry about it.
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Dana Roode

Re: K3 Chirp

In reply to this post by Dana Roode

Let me give this another try. Anyone out there ever have an issue with a
CW Chirp from a K3? Mine seems to be intermittent, it's not always
present. I've got a spare K3, I guess I will drive out to the station and
swap out the one there now. If it's not the power supply, the only other
thing I can think of is an issue with the KSYN3 board. I can try the
calibration Wayne mentioned in his 2017 post.

Dana

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:21 PM Dana Roode K6NR <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> It was reported today by several folks who heard my CW signal that I have
> a bad chirp - I was operating on 20 meters during CWT. I listened to the
> signal myself (my station is 80 miles away and I can listen on a local
> transceiver). Someone also sent me a recording.
>
> I've been using the same K3, KPA1500, and Astron power supply for many
> years. I shut off the amp and could still hear the chirp.
>
> One thought is that it has something to do with my power supply, although
> I saw a previous posting that made that seem unlikely (below). Wayne
> mentioned something about KSYSN3 calibration, I had not heard of that
> before, I will look into it.
>
> If anyone has experienced a problem with chirp on a K3, let me know (it is
> a K3 not a K3S).
>
> Dana
>
>
>
> In reply to this post
> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-past-chirp-report-tp7625892p7625898.html>
> by Doug Smith [W7KF]
> Under normal circumstances, it is impossible for a K3 or K3S for exhibit
> "chirp." The synthesizer settles well before the rig switches from TX to RX
> or vice-versa.
>
> The KSYN3A (newer synth, used in the K3S) settles in well under 1 ms
> thanks to its entirely digital architecture (UHF DSPLL, divided down).
>
> The KSYN3 (older synth, used on the K3) uses a more traditional PLL with
> its VCO running at the target output frequency. It normally settles in
> under 5 ms. It can take a bit longer depending on the actual PLL voltage
> and VCO frequency. This is accounted for in firmware.
>
> If your KSYN3 were not properly calibrated, you might see a longer
> settling time on one or two bands, most likely 6 meters. If you suspect
> this, refer to the CONFIG:VCO MD menu entry. The K3 includes an automatic
> VCO calibration routine that requires no test equipment and takes only a
> couple of minutes to run.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:57 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]
> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7625904&i=0>>
> wrote:
>
> > In a synthesized VFO rig like the K3S, any tendency to "chirp" is almost
> always related to the synthesizer momentarily losing frequency (or phase)
> lock.
> >
> > While that could conceivably be linked to change in the power bus
> voltage, it's highly unlikely since the bus is isolated from the actual
> synthesizer by voltage regulators and filters.
> >
> > OTOH, the OO's report was strictly advisory. I have experienced spurious
> OO reports over my >50 years of pounding brass, and one that turned out to
> be accurate when I blew the filter caps in the transmitter and did not
> notice, nor did the stations I was working report the hum on my signal.
> When I got a "chirp" report one time (on a homebrew rig) and was unable to
> hear it myself, I sent a friendly letter to the OO. He replied that he was
> "almost sure" he could detect a "slight chirp" so he sent the card.
> >
> > So my advice is that if you can't repeat what the OO observed, don't
> worry about it.
> >
> > 73, Ron AC7AC
>

Dana Roode

Re: K3 Chirp - K3SYN Board

The cause of my chirp is my K3SYN board; the intermittent nature was purely
related to what frequency I was on. Turns out when I was on 14044.74, plus
or minus a little, the chirp was there, even when I was transmitting at a
few watts out. I did the Config VCO Cal procedure Wayne mentioned, didn't
fix the problem, nor did reseating the board and doing the procedure
again. There is a mod from 2010 or so to correct a problem like this, but
my board already has this done (r20 is 25 ohms not 50). I have an older
K3, and I moved its K3SYN board to the newer K3, seems to work fine, no
chirp. Meanwhile, I put the odd K3SYN in the older K3 and the chirp is
there, same frequency.

I'm not sure if I caused other issues when I swapped the boards, so if you
hear me on, drop me an email to let me know how its sounding. The older
board doesn't have the metal plate stiffener on it, nor does it have the
2010 mod.

Meanwhile, I'm in the market for a K3SYN board. Don't know if elecraft has
them as spare parts or can repair the one I have. Will have to ask.

Dana

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 10:44 AM Dana Roode K6NR <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Let me give this another try. Anyone out there ever have an issue with a
> CW Chirp from a K3? Mine seems to be intermittent, it's not always
> present. I've got a spare K3, I guess I will drive out to the station and
> swap out the one there now. If it's not the power supply, the only other
> thing I can think of is an issue with the KSYN3 board. I can try the
> calibration Wayne mentioned in his 2017 post.
>
> Dana
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:21 PM Dana Roode K6NR <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> It was reported today by several folks who heard my CW signal that I have
>> a bad chirp - I was operating on 20 meters during CWT. I listened to the
>> signal myself (my station is 80 miles away and I can listen on a local
>> transceiver). Someone also sent me a recording.
>>
>> I've been using the same K3, KPA1500, and Astron power supply for many
>> years. I shut off the amp and could still hear the chirp.
>>
>> One thought is that it has something to do with my power supply, although
>> I saw a previous posting that made that seem unlikely (below). Wayne
>> mentioned something about KSYSN3 calibration, I had not heard of that
>> before, I will look into it.
>>
>> If anyone has experienced a problem with chirp on a K3, let me know (it
>> is a K3 not a K3S).
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>>
>> In reply to this post
>> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-past-chirp-report-tp7625892p7625898.html>
>> by Doug Smith [W7KF]
>> Under normal circumstances, it is impossible for a K3 or K3S for exhibit
>> "chirp." The synthesizer settles well before the rig switches from TX to RX
>> or vice-versa.
>>
>> The KSYN3A (newer synth, used in the K3S) settles in well under 1 ms
>> thanks to its entirely digital architecture (UHF DSPLL, divided down).
>>
>> The KSYN3 (older synth, used on the K3) uses a more traditional PLL with
>> its VCO running at the target output frequency. It normally settles in
>> under 5 ms. It can take a bit longer depending on the actual PLL voltage
>> and VCO frequency. This is accounted for in firmware.
>>
>> If your KSYN3 were not properly calibrated, you might see a longer
>> settling time on one or two bands, most likely 6 meters. If you suspect
>> this, refer to the CONFIG:VCO MD menu entry. The K3 includes an automatic
>> VCO calibration routine that requires no test equipment and takes only a
>> couple of minutes to run.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:57 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]
>> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7625904&i=0>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > In a synthesized VFO rig like the K3S, any tendency to "chirp" is
>> almost always related to the synthesizer momentarily losing frequency (or
>> phase) lock.
>> >
>> > While that could conceivably be linked to change in the power bus
>> voltage, it's highly unlikely since the bus is isolated from the actual
>> synthesizer by voltage regulators and filters.
>> >
>> > OTOH, the OO's report was strictly advisory. I have experienced
>> spurious OO reports over my >50 years of pounding brass, and one that
>> turned out to be accurate when I blew the filter caps in the transmitter
>> and did not notice, nor did the stations I was working report the hum on my
>> signal. When I got a "chirp" report one time (on a homebrew rig) and was
>> unable to hear it myself, I sent a friendly letter to the OO. He replied
>> that he was "almost sure" he could detect a "slight chirp" so he sent the
>> card.
>> >
>> > So my advice is that if you can't repeat what the OO observed, don't
>> worry about it.
>> >
>> > 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>

Dana Roode

Re: K3 Chirp - K3SYN Board

It shouldn't really be a surprise, but a number of folks have extra KSYN3
boards after they upgraded to KSYN3A. I am sorting through the email
offers, but looks like I will have no trouble finding one.

Dana

On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 12:39 PM Dana Roode K6NR <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The cause of my chirp is my K3SYN board; the intermittent nature was
> purely related to what frequency I was on. Turns out when I was on
> 14044.74, plus or minus a little, the chirp was there, even when I was
> transmitting at a few watts out. I did the Config VCO Cal procedure Wayne
> mentioned, didn't fix the problem, nor did reseating the board and doing
> the procedure again. There is a mod from 2010 or so to correct a problem
> like this, but my board already has this done (r20 is 25 ohms not 50). I
> have an older K3, and I moved its K3SYN board to the newer K3, seems to
> work fine, no chirp. Meanwhile, I put the odd K3SYN in the older K3 and
> the chirp is there, same frequency.
>
> I'm not sure if I caused other issues when I swapped the boards, so if you
> hear me on, drop me an email to let me know how its sounding. The older
> board doesn't have the metal plate stiffener on it, nor does it have the
> 2010 mod.
>
> Meanwhile, I'm in the market for a K3SYN board. Don't know if elecraft
> has them as spare parts or can repair the one I have. Will have to ask.
>
> Dana
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 10:44 AM Dana Roode K6NR <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Let me give this another try. Anyone out there ever have an issue with a
>> CW Chirp from a K3? Mine seems to be intermittent, it's not always
>> present. I've got a spare K3, I guess I will drive out to the station and
>> swap out the one there now. If it's not the power supply, the only other
>> thing I can think of is an issue with the KSYN3 board. I can try the
>> calibration Wayne mentioned in his 2017 post.
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:21 PM Dana Roode K6NR <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It was reported today by several folks who heard my CW signal that I
>>> have a bad chirp - I was operating on 20 meters during CWT. I listened to
>>> the signal myself (my station is 80 miles away and I can listen on a local
>>> transceiver). Someone also sent me a recording.
>>>
>>> I've been using the same K3, KPA1500, and Astron power supply for many
>>> years. I shut off the amp and could still hear the chirp.
>>>
>>> One thought is that it has something to do with my power supply,
>>> although I saw a previous posting that made that seem unlikely (below).
>>> Wayne mentioned something about KSYSN3 calibration, I had not heard of that
>>> before, I will look into it.
>>>
>>> If anyone has experienced a problem with chirp on a K3, let me know (it
>>> is a K3 not a K3S).
>>>
>>> Dana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In reply to this post
>>> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-past-chirp-report-tp7625892p7625898.html>
>>> by Doug Smith [W7KF]
>>> Under normal circumstances, it is impossible for a K3 or K3S for exhibit
>>> "chirp." The synthesizer settles well before the rig switches from TX to RX
>>> or vice-versa.
>>>
>>> The KSYN3A (newer synth, used in the K3S) settles in well under 1 ms
>>> thanks to its entirely digital architecture (UHF DSPLL, divided down).
>>>
>>> The KSYN3 (older synth, used on the K3) uses a more traditional PLL with
>>> its VCO running at the target output frequency. It normally settles in
>>> under 5 ms. It can take a bit longer depending on the actual PLL voltage
>>> and VCO frequency. This is accounted for in firmware.
>>>
>>> If your KSYN3 were not properly calibrated, you might see a longer
>>> settling time on one or two bands, most likely 6 meters. If you suspect
>>> this, refer to the CONFIG:VCO MD menu entry. The K3 includes an automatic
>>> VCO calibration routine that requires no test equipment and takes only a
>>> couple of minutes to run.
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:57 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]
>>> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7625904&i=0>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > In a synthesized VFO rig like the K3S, any tendency to "chirp" is
>>> almost always related to the synthesizer momentarily losing frequency (or
>>> phase) lock.
>>> >
>>> > While that could conceivably be linked to change in the power bus
>>> voltage, it's highly unlikely since the bus is isolated from the actual
>>> synthesizer by voltage regulators and filters.
>>> >
>>> > OTOH, the OO's report was strictly advisory. I have experienced
>>> spurious OO reports over my >50 years of pounding brass, and one that
>>> turned out to be accurate when I blew the filter caps in the transmitter
>>> and did not notice, nor did the stations I was working report the hum on my
>>> signal. When I got a "chirp" report one time (on a homebrew rig) and was
>>> unable to hear it myself, I sent a friendly letter to the OO. He replied
>>> that he was "almost sure" he could detect a "slight chirp" so he sent the
>>> card.
>>> >
>>> > So my advice is that if you can't repeat what the OO observed, don't
>>> worry about it.
>>> >
>>> > 73, Ron AC7AC
>>>
>>