K3 Complexity

[John Lyon-4]

Hi Elecrafters,

I am the proud owner (are as opposed to the unproud owners) of K3 #647.
And a K2 and K1 before it. I strongly believe in the Elecraft business
model, with its closeness to the customer and excellent service in
support of world class equipment made here in our country (well, some of
it), yet relatively affordable. Not an easy task, but the Aptodians have
done it.

But I, too, have become concerned that the K3 is becoming just another
menu driven radio - with so many parameters that the result is brain
paralysis. How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with
different modes and band conditions? How many angels really can dance on
the head of a pin? When is enough enough?

I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever
happened to synchronous detection?  The hope of a keyboard connection?
Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? An up-to-date,
complete owner's manual?

In my view, we've done a year of beta testing, and it is time to move on.

John W9LHG


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[wayne burdick]

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback.

> ....concerned that the K3 is becoming just another menu driven radio -
> with so many parameters that the result is brain  paralysis.

We only add new menu entries after very careful consideration. Any new
entries come up at factory defaults, and most users who are not
interested in that function can just leave them there. Most of them are
in the "advanced" category are only visible in Tech Mode, reducing the
chance of changing them accidentally. If you do change one, you can see
what the default value is by tapping DISP while in that menu entry.
(The default is the first thing shown, in parentheses.)

> How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with different
> modes and band conditions?

The only AGC menu entry we've added since the pleistocene (2007) is AGC
DCY, which is used to turn on an optional soft-decay characteristic. We
did lots of lab tests, including building a highly stable 4-signal
oscillator, before we concluded that an alternative AGC characteristic
would be useful in pileup conditions. This had to be a menu entry,
because we knew traditional AGC decay would still be preferred by most
users.

I recommend using all of the AGC defaults except in special
circumstances. Others are free to pitch their favored settings.

> I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever
> happened to synchronous detection?

Lyle has been working on that, but basic performance issues get
attention first. For example, there were claims of high-frequency AF
artifacts that he had to investigate. Turns out we have a lot of
customers with incredibly good hearing :)  We'll have more to report on
this soon. But Lyle is getting close to having AM sync working.

> The hope of a keyboard connection?

This was supposed to be my project, but again, I've had a lot of basic
firmware maintenance to keep up with. Everything is more time-consuming
than you think it will be. This is especially true with the K3: it has
appealed to a lot of new customers with different expectations. It
isn't just QRP and full kits anymore. We've had to broaden our scope
and take many new ideas into account in the design/refinement process.

> Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter?

Now you *know* I can't talk about that :)

> An up-to-date, complete owner's manual?

I just completed a new revision last week. It's being reviewed. I'd be
happy to send you a .pdf of it.

In short, I believe we're keeping up with K3 user needs, while not
making the rig too complex. I understand your concern, though, and I'll
continue to vet new firmware ideas thoroughly before making changes.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

---

http://www.elecraft.com

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[Darwin, Keith]

To me the K3 is pretty simple.  I turn it on and use it.  If I want to
change things I can but I pretty much don't.  I just turn it on and
operate.  It's like a modern HW-101 for me, just as simple as can be.

Now, as to "promised features vs. fixes", this is a tough call.  If the
features had not been promised then it would be clear to me - give me a
rig with limited features that is flawless rather than a Microsoft rig
(lots of features, many bugs).  I too want sync AM detection but if
getting it means my AGC behaves badly in a pile-up, I'll take the AGC
fix and wait on sync.  "But, wait, it was promised that we'd have sync
detection".  True, but reality has become apparent and it would not be a
good choice to add more features, even though they were promised, when
the rig's core functionality has issues.

- Keith N1AS -
- K3 711 -



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Lyon

I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever
happened to synchronous detection?  The hope of a keyboard connection?
Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? An up-to-date,
complete owner's manual?

In my view, we've done a year of beta testing, and it is time to move
on.

John W9LHG
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[Phil LaMarche-2]

Wayne,

Your email response to John's honest concerns is one of the many reasons I
love owning a Elecraft K3.  There are multi layers of intellect within our
community and you try honestly to address all of us.  I personally am in the
lower tier and wish I had more experience to get full benefits from this
radio.  But, I learn every day and my level of understanding goes up daily.
In the mean time, I am happy to use the radio at my level.  Being an ex Flex
user of 4 years, I am especially happy for the LP-PAN, which allows me to
use the K3 in the Flex mode.  Smile.  I've learned to appreciate SCR and
it's workings.

Thank you for your understanding and addressing our needs.

Phil


Philip LaMarche
LaMarche Enterprises, Inc.
www.instantgourmetspices.com

www.w9dvm.com
800-395-7795 pin 02
727-944-3226
FAX [phone]
NASFT 30210

K3  #1605

CCA 98  00827
W9DVM



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of wayne burdick
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 1:24 PM
To: John Lyon
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Complexity

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback.

> ....concerned that the K3 is becoming just another menu driven radio -
> with so many parameters that the result is brain  paralysis.

We only add new menu entries after very careful consideration. Any new
entries come up at factory defaults, and most users who are not interested
in that function can just leave them there. Most of them are in the
"advanced" category are only visible in Tech Mode, reducing the chance of
changing them accidentally. If you do change one, you can see what the
default value is by tapping DISP while in that menu entry.
(The default is the first thing shown, in parentheses.)

> How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with different
> modes and band conditions?

The only AGC menu entry we've added since the pleistocene (2007) is AGC DCY,
which is used to turn on an optional soft-decay characteristic. We did lots
of lab tests, including building a highly stable 4-signal oscillator, before
we concluded that an alternative AGC characteristic would be useful in
pileup conditions. This had to be a menu entry, because we knew traditional
AGC decay would still be preferred by most users.

I recommend using all of the AGC defaults except in special circumstances.
Others are free to pitch their favored settings.

> I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever
> happened to synchronous detection?

Lyle has been working on that, but basic performance issues get attention
first. For example, there were claims of high-frequency AF artifacts that he
had to investigate. Turns out we have a lot of customers with incredibly
good hearing :)  We'll have more to report on this soon. But Lyle is getting
close to having AM sync working.

> The hope of a keyboard connection?

This was supposed to be my project, but again, I've had a lot of basic
firmware maintenance to keep up with. Everything is more time-consuming than
you think it will be. This is especially true with the K3: it has appealed
to a lot of new customers with different expectations. It isn't just QRP and
full kits anymore. We've had to broaden our scope and take many new ideas
into account in the design/refinement process.

> Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter?

Now you *know* I can't talk about that :)

> An up-to-date, complete owner's manual?

I just completed a new revision last week. It's being reviewed. I'd be happy
to send you a .pdf of it.

In short, I believe we're keeping up with K3 user needs, while not making
the rig too complex. I understand your concern, though, and I'll continue to
vet new firmware ideas thoroughly before making changes.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

---

http://www.elecraft.com

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[Manuel Maseda]

 
Hello All,

When I turn on the sub-receiver on my K3 I get the momentary message ERR PL
1 on the sub-receiver display.  I've run the synthesizer calibration on both
synthesizers but still get the error.  I've also performed the synthesizer
ALC modification to both synthesizers but that didn't solve the problem.

Any ideas?

Manuel  W4SSB

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[Jim Brown-10]

On Thu, 07 May 2009 11:50:10 -0500, John Lyon wrote:

>But I, too, have become concerned that the K3 is becoming just another
>menu driven radio - with so many parameters that the result is brain
>paralysis. How many AGC parameters does one person need, even with
>different modes and band conditions? How many angels really can dance on
>the head of a pin? When is enough enough?

Early in its life, the K3 became a very popular "competition" radio, and
this fact has driven its design. That is, a high percentage of K3s have
been sold to contesters. The extra effort put into issues like the AGC are
an attempt to optimize it in that direction.

As to complexity -- K3NA told that those seasoned operators who used very
early serial number versions of the K3 at VP6DX found it very easy to use,
and were working at full efficiency in 5-10 minutes after first sitting
down with it. My reaction as an old-timer has been the same. I find the
user interface quite intuitive and fast, and the use of menus is limited
to customization of the radio to suit the needs of the individual
operator. In day-to-day operation, about the only time I use the menus is
the tweak the settings of the Noise Blanker. The only thing I find awkward
is operating control of the 2nd radio. It's been getting better, but there
are still things I need to do that either aren't possible or aren't easy.

>I'd rather see Elecraft complete the original feature list. What ever
>happened to synchronous detection?  The hope of a keyboard connection?
>Or for that manner, a tightly integrated panadapter? An up-to-date,
>complete owner's manual?

I'd like to see these things too, but the panadapter and an up-to-date
manual that better integrates new functions are the things on your list
that I'd most like to see. Synchronous detection is nice, but I didn't buy
my K3s to ragchew on AM or listen to shortwave. Others may have different
priorities. :)

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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[K2QI]

Hi Manuel,

Have you tried swapping synthesizers?  Perhaps the one used for the sub
receiver may be bad.

73 de James K3JPS

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Manuel Maseda
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 4:33 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 ERR PL1 error

 
Hello All,

When I turn on the sub-receiver on my K3 I get the momentary message ERR PL
1 on the sub-receiver display.  I've run the synthesizer calibration on both
synthesizers but still get the error.  I've also performed the synthesizer
ALC modification to both synthesizers but that didn't solve the problem.

Any ideas?

Manuel  W4SSB

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[Richard Thorne]

I had this exact problem in reverse.

My main receiver would show the PL1 error.  I installed the 180k
resistor on both boards, still no joy.  I then swapped boards which
fixed the main receiver but now had a new problem on the 2nd receiver, I
was receiving a DSE error.  I reloaded the firmware which fixed that
problem.

The rig has been working perfectly since.

Rich - N5ZC

James Sarte wrote:

> Hi Manuel,
>
> Have you tried swapping synthesizers?  Perhaps the one used for the sub
> receiver may be bad.
>
> 73 de James K3JPS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Manuel Maseda
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 4:33 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 ERR PL1 error
>
>  
> Hello All,
>
> When I turn on the sub-receiver on my K3 I get the momentary message ERR PL
> 1 on the sub-receiver display.  I've run the synthesizer calibration on both
> synthesizers but still get the error.  I've also performed the synthesizer
> ALC modification to both synthesizers but that didn't solve the problem.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Manuel  W4SSB
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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