Elecraft

K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

Classic

List

Threaded

10 messages Options

Joe K2UF

K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

I had the following two problems during the RTTY contest this past weekend.

1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually when
I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When I
get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency but
the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
quite often.

2.- Using the K3 / KPA500 setup with N1MM running on a Win XP desktop pc
with a soundMAX sound card. The K3 running about 25 watts and the LINE IN
level set at 10 the KPA500 power out would start at about 60 to 70 watts.
Each time I would call/work someone the power out on the KPA500 would
increase. After 8 or 10 calls/Qs the power would be up to 400 to 500 watts.
If I changed the power level on the K3 down 1 watt and then back up 1 watt
the process would start all over again. I do not have the same problem on
CW. I have not used the amp in a CW contest yet, but I have worked several
DXpeditions/DX stations sometimes calling for over an hour. The amp output
would stay where it was set.

I have looked over the K3 manual and could not find any hints about problem
1. Problem 2 is a real puzzler.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks Joe K2UF

No trees were harmed in the sending of this e-mail; however, many electrons
were inconvenienced.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

Joe,

I don't know anything in the K3 that would cause your problem 1, but I
strongly suspect that is an N1MM related situation.

My guess on your problem 2 is that you were not driving the audio hard
enough.
With the K3, you cannot follow the frequent advice given for data modes
to "set the power to max and use the audio drive to bring up the power
to the desired level" -- that WILL NOT work well with the K3. Do as the
K3 manual indicates, set the audio level for 4 ALC meter bars solid with
the 5th one flashing (you can do that in TX TEST so you do no0t bother
anyone on the air) - then set the power knob for the desired power.

Failure to follow those instructions will result in "power creep" like
you were seeing.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/1/2012 3:09 PM, Joe K2UF wrote:

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Matt Maguire

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

In reply to this post by Joe K2UF

For problem 2, it sounds like you are providing insufficient drive to the K3, and this causes "power creep" as the K3 tries to compensate.

What does your ALC meter read? It should have 4 steady bars with the fifth bar flickering. Then, you can set the desired output power level with the power level control.

73, Matt VK2ACL

On 02/10/2012, at 5:09 AM, "Joe K2UF" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I had the following two problems during the RTTY contest this past weekend.
>
>
>
> 1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually when
> I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When I
> get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
> would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency but
> the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
> quite often.
>
>
>
> 2.- Using the K3 / KPA500 setup with N1MM running on a Win XP desktop pc
> with a soundMAX sound card. The K3 running about 25 watts and the LINE IN
> level set at 10 the KPA500 power out would start at about 60 to 70 watts.
> Each time I would call/work someone the power out on the KPA500 would
> increase. After 8 or 10 calls/Qs the power would be up to 400 to 500 watts.
> If I changed the power level on the K3 down 1 watt and then back up 1 watt
> the process would start all over again. I do not have the same problem on
> CW. I have not used the amp in a CW contest yet, but I have worked several
> DXpeditions/DX stations sometimes calling for over an hour. The amp output
> would stay where it was set.
>
>
>
> I have looked over the K3 manual and could not find any hints about problem
> 1. Problem 2 is a real puzzler.
>
>
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
>
>
> Thanks Joe K2UF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No trees were harmed in the sending of this e-mail; however, many electrons
> were inconvenienced.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Matt Maguire

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

Sorry, I should have been a little clearer -- it seems you are providing insufficient *audio* drive to the K3.

73, Matt VK2ACL

On 02/10/2012, at 5:43 AM, Matt Maguire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For problem 2, it sounds like you are providing insufficient drive to the K3, and this causes "power creep" as the K3 tries to compensate.
>
> What does your ALC meter read? It should have 4 steady bars with the fifth bar flickering. Then, you can set the desired output power level with the power level control.
>
> 73, Matt VK2ACL
>
>
>
> On 02/10/2012, at 5:09 AM, "Joe K2UF" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I had the following two problems during the RTTY contest this past weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually when
>> I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When I
>> get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
>> would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency but
>> the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
>> quite often.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.- Using the K3 / KPA500 setup with N1MM running on a Win XP desktop pc
>> with a soundMAX sound card. The K3 running about 25 watts and the LINE IN
>> level set at 10 the KPA500 power out would start at about 60 to 70 watts.
>> Each time I would call/work someone the power out on the KPA500 would
>> increase. After 8 or 10 calls/Qs the power would be up to 400 to 500 watts.
>> If I changed the power level on the K3 down 1 watt and then back up 1 watt
>> the process would start all over again. I do not have the same problem on
>> CW. I have not used the amp in a CW contest yet, but I have worked several
>> DXpeditions/DX stations sometimes calling for over an hour. The amp output
>> would stay where it was set.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have looked over the K3 manual and could not find any hints about problem
>> 1. Problem 2 is a real puzzler.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Joe K2UF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No trees were harmed in the sending of this e-mail; however, many electrons
>> were inconvenienced.
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

alsopb

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Second what Don said. Has to be in AFSK drive adjustment.

Here identical N1MM/K3/KPA500 except ran FSK. Power always went up to
max set power from the first diddle.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 10/1/2012 19:28, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I don't know anything in the K3 that would cause your problem 1, but I
> strongly suspect that is an N1MM related situation.
>
> My guess on your problem 2 is that you were not driving the audio hard
> enough.
> With the K3, you cannot follow the frequent advice given for data modes
> to "set the power to max and use the audio drive to bring up the power
> to the desired level" -- that WILL NOT work well with the K3. Do as the
> K3 manual indicates, set the audio level for 4 ALC meter bars solid with
> the 5th one flashing (you can do that in TX TEST so you do no0t bother
> anyone on the air) - then set the power knob for the desired power.
>
> Failure to follow those instructions will result in "power creep" like
> you were seeing.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/1/2012 3:09 PM, Joe K2UF wrote:
>> I had the following two problems during the RTTY contest this past weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually when
>> I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When I
>> get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
>> would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency but
>> the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
>> quite often.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.- Using the K3 / KPA500 setup with N1MM running on a Win XP desktop pc
>> with a soundMAX sound card. The K3 running about 25 watts and the LINE IN
>> level set at 10 the KPA500 power out would start at about 60 to 70 watts.
>> Each time I would call/work someone the power out on the KPA500 would
>> increase. After 8 or 10 calls/Qs the power would be up to 400 to 500 watts.
>> If I changed the power level on the K3 down 1 watt and then back up 1 watt
>> the process would start all over again. I do not have the same problem on
>> CW. I have not used the amp in a CW contest yet, but I have worked several
>> DXpeditions/DX stations sometimes calling for over an hour. The amp output
>> would stay where it was set.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5302 - Release Date: 10/01/12
>
>

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5302 - Release Date: 10/01/12

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

In reply to this post by Joe K2UF

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Joe K2UF <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually when
> I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When I
> get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
> would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency but
> the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
> quite often.

In N1MM Logger, "Config" -> "Configure Ports..." -> "Digital Modes" (tab)

Check that "DI-1 MMTTY Setup" -> "MMTTY Mode" is set to "AFSK".

and on the "Mode Control" tab, set the "Mode sent to radio" for "RTTY"
to "AFSK".

73,

~iain / N6ML
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Doug Joyce

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

In reply to this post by Joe K2UF

Hi Joe: I've had a problem similar to your #1 for over a year now. In my
case while running FSK the K3 (Ser 2432) would switch from 45 to 75 baud all
by itself in the middle of the contest - it may have been after a band or
large frequency change, I don't remember now. I also had a problem with the
K3 remembering the custom settings for the Filter Presets I & II. They
seemed to be lost following a power on/off cycle.

The last time I checked with Support I was told that Wayne was aware of one
or both of these and would be working on them once the design work on the
KX3 was completed. I haven't checked lately so don't know the current
status.

As to your problem #2, I haven't seen any of that since I'm running FSK
rather than AFSK.

73, Doug VE3MV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe K2UF" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:09 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

>I had the following two problems during the RTTY contest this past weekend.
>
>
>
> 1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually
> when
> I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When
> I
> get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
> would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency
> but
> the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
> quite often.
>
>
>
> 2.- Using the K3 / KPA500 setup with N1MM running on a Win XP desktop pc
> with a soundMAX sound card. The K3 running about 25 watts and the LINE IN
> level set at 10 the KPA500 power out would start at about 60 to 70 watts.
> Each time I would call/work someone the power out on the KPA500 would
> increase. After 8 or 10 calls/Qs the power would be up to 400 to 500
> watts.
> If I changed the power level on the K3 down 1 watt and then back up 1 watt
> the process would start all over again. I do not have the same problem on
> CW. I have not used the amp in a CW contest yet, but I have worked
> several
> DXpeditions/DX stations sometimes calling for over an hour. The amp output
> would stay where it was set.
>
>
>
> I have looked over the K3 manual and could not find any hints about
> problem
> 1. Problem 2 is a real puzzler.
>
>
>
> Anyone have any ideas?
>
>
>
> Thanks Joe K2UF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No trees were harmed in the sending of this e-mail; however, many
> electrons
> were inconvenienced.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

alsopb

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

Hi Doug,

Interesting. How do you know it's the K3 and not the logging program.
Or some other piece of hardware doing interfacing? Could RFI be a
cause? You don't say what your setup for RTTY is.

I'm been running RTTY contests with the K3 for years using a hardware
TNC in FSK. At times we've been up to 1500 watts. I've never seen this
first problem despite being mostly S&P with lots of band and large freq
changes. I've only been bit by the 75 baud problem once. That was when
75 baud was introduced in firmware and became the default. After fixing
that once, it has never been seen again.

Then again, maybe I've just been lucky.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 10/1/2012 20:54, D Joyce wrote:

> Hi Joe: I've had a problem similar to your #1 for over a year now. In my
> case while running FSK the K3 (Ser 2432) would switch from 45 to 75 baud all
> by itself in the middle of the contest - it may have been after a band or
> large frequency change, I don't remember now. I also had a problem with the
> K3 remembering the custom settings for the Filter Presets I & II. They
> seemed to be lost following a power on/off cycle.
>
> The last time I checked with Support I was told that Wayne was aware of one
> or both of these and would be working on them once the design work on the
> KX3 was completed. I haven't checked lately so don't know the current
> status.
>
> As to your problem #2, I haven't seen any of that since I'm running FSK
> rather than AFSK.
>
> 73, Doug VE3MV
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe K2UF" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 3:09 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY
>
>
>> I had the following two problems during the RTTY contest this past weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.- I had to reset the mode from FSK D to AFSK A many times. Usually
>> when
>> I changed bands or a large change in frequency within the same band. When
>> I
>> get to the top of the band and want to go back to the bottom of the band I
>> would type the frequency in N1MM. Radio would QSY to the new frequency
>> but
>> the mode would revert back to FSK D. This would not happen every time but
>> quite often.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.- Using the K3 / KPA500 setup with N1MM running on a Win XP desktop pc
>> with a soundMAX sound card. The K3 running about 25 watts and the LINE IN
>> level set at 10 the KPA500 power out would start at about 60 to 70 watts.
>> Each time I would call/work someone the power out on the KPA500 would
>> increase. After 8 or 10 calls/Qs the power would be up to 400 to 500
>> watts.
>> If I changed the power level on the K3 down 1 watt and then back up 1 watt
>> the process would start all over again. I do not have the same problem on
>> CW. I have not used the amp in a CW contest yet, but I have worked
>> several
>> DXpeditions/DX stations sometimes calling for over an hour. The amp output
>> would stay where it was set.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have looked over the K3 manual and could not find any hints about
>> problem
>> 1. Problem 2 is a real puzzler.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone have any ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Joe K2UF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No trees were harmed in the sending of this e-mail; however, many
>> electrons
>> were inconvenienced.
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5302 - Release Date: 10/01/12
>
>

Doug Joyce

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

Hi Brian: I haven't been on RTTY too much recently so the problem hasn't
occured for some time. That being said, I'm going to see if I can pin
things down a bit and report back.

The setup is a K3 with a microKeyer II running with a KPA500 at about 300W.
I'm using MMTTY (within DX4Win) for non contest operations and MMTTY with
N1MM for contests - FSK in both cases.

Thanks for your comments.

73, Doug VE3MV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Alsop" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2012 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

> Hi Doug,
>
> Interesting. How do you know it's the K3 and not the logging program.
> Or some other piece of hardware doing interfacing? Could RFI be a
> cause? You don't say what your setup for RTTY is.
>
> I'm been running RTTY contests with the K3 for years using a hardware
> TNC in FSK. At times we've been up to 1500 watts. I've never seen this
> first problem despite being mostly S&P with lots of band and large freq
> changes. I've only been bit by the 75 baud problem once. That was when
> 75 baud was introduced in firmware and became the default. After fixing
> that once, it has never been seen again.
>
> Then again, maybe I've just been lucky.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/1/2012 20:54, D Joyce wrote:
>> Hi Joe: I've had a problem similar to your #1 for over a year now. In
>> my
>> case while running FSK the K3 (Ser 2432) would switch from 45 to 75 baud
>> all
>> by itself in the middle of the contest - it may have been after a band or
>> large frequency change, I don't remember now. I also had a problem with
>> the
>> K3 remembering the custom settings for the Filter Presets I & II. They
>> seemed to be lost following a power on/off cycle.
>>
>> The last time I checked with Support I was told that Wayne was aware of
>> one
>> or both of these and would be working on them once the design work on the
>> KX3 was completed. I haven't checked lately so don't know the current
>> status.
>>
>> As to your problem #2, I haven't seen any of that since I'm running FSK
>> rather than AFSK.
>>
>> 73, Doug VE3MV
>>

Richard Ferch

Re: K3 Couple of issues during CQWW RTTY

In reply to this post by Joe K2UF

Joe,

Problem 1 is probably mainly an N1MM Logger configuration issue. In the
Configurer under Mode Control, right side ("Mode sent to radio"), beside
RTTY change the two list boxes to read AFSK in order to select AFSK A on
the K3 (RTTY is N1MM's terminology for the K3's FSK D mode). If you use
PSK, beside PSK change the list boxes to read PSK (N1MM's terminology
for DATA A on the K3).

There is also an interaction with the way the K3 remembers its data
sub-modes. Data sub-mode (and the 45/75 baud speed) are remembered by
the K3's firmware on a per-band basis, so setting the radio to AFSK A on
one band will leave it in FSK D on other bands if that's where it was
before. You may need to go through all the bands to set the K3 back to
AFSK A on each one; the N1MM Mode Control configuration only takes
effect when the program starts up and/or when you change modes from
CW/SSB to data, not when you change bands without changing the mode.

Problem 2, as has been noted, sounds like an audio drive issue. It's not
the number on the LINE IN control that matters, it's the reading on the
ALC meter. Set the audio drive and LINE IN level to produce 4-5 bars on
the K3's ALC meter and use the PWR control to control the power.

If that's what you are already doing, maybe you should try re-doing the
TX Gain Calibration step from the K3 manual.

73,
Rich VE3KI

K2UF wrote: