K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB

[Berni G0IDA]

Hi everyone,

I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-)

I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and always),
perhaps caused by the DSP.
When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although less
pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good. But when I
tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets higher in
frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is very slight but
enough for it to be anoying.

This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of keys
like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't worked
out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not.

I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones
(Heil) were rattling but it is the same.

This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is randomly
there or not.

Perhaps there are settings which optimize this?
I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB
and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these.

Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"?

73's
Berni
G0IDA
K3 #1474

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[Paul Fletcher]

Berni G0IDA wrote

Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"?

73's
Berni
G0IDA
K3 #1474

Yes but only in my good ear (no joke!) Look at the K3 audio posts a week or so ago.

Cheers,
Paul.

[N4LQ-2]

Berni
This sounds like harmonic distortion, not ringing. It's the same thing
people are seeing on their PSK waterfalls and calling it a "ghost". There's
not much you can do about it.

Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Berni G0IDA" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:42 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB

> Hi everyone,
>
> I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-)
>
> I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and always),
> perhaps caused by the DSP.
> When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although less
> pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good. But when I
> tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets higher in frequency
> I can hear what I would call ringing and it is very slight but enough for
> it to be anoying.
>
> This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of keys
> like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't worked out
> if it is indeed a combination of keys or not.
>
> I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones
> (Heil) were rattling but it is the same.
>
> This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is randomly
> there or not.
>
> Perhaps there are settings which optimize this?
> I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB and
> 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these.
>
> Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"?
>
> 73's
> Berni
> G0IDA
> K3 #1474
>
> --
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database:
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>
>
>

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[Berni G0IDA]

Surely that means every K3 has this but there seems to be no complaints
about it on CW or SSB?
I'm listening now to the YO contest and playing with settings and it is
quite marked ringing :-(

Is there a way of reducing this?

Cheers,

Berni
G0IDA

n4lq wrote:

> Berni
> This sounds like harmonic distortion, not ringing. It's the same thing
> people are seeing on their PSK waterfalls and calling it a "ghost".
> There's not much you can do about it.
>
> Steve Ellington
> [hidden email]
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berni G0IDA" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:42 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-)
>>
>> I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and
>> always), perhaps caused by the DSP.
>> When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although
>> less pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good.
>> But when I tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets
>> higher in frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is
>> very slight but enough for it to be anoying.
>>
>> This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of
>> keys like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't
>> worked out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not.
>>
>> I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones
>> (Heil) were rattling but it is the same.
>>
>> This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is
>> randomly there or not.
>>
>> Perhaps there are settings which optimize this?
>> I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB
>> and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these.
>>
>> Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"?
>>
>> 73's
>> Berni
>> G0IDA
>> K3 #1474
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus
>> Database: 270.6.12/1640 - Release Date: 8/28/2008 6:58 PM
>>
>>
>>
>

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[Brendan Minish]

If you have the audio effects turned on and only one speaker you could
have comb filtering and this might sound like ringing


73
Brendan


On Sat, 2008-08-30 at 13:34 +0100, Berni G0IDA wrote:

> Surely that means every K3 has this but there seems to be no complaints
> about it on CW or SSB?
> I'm listening now to the YO contest and playing with settings and it is
> quite marked ringing :-(
>
> Is there a way of reducing this?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Berni
> G0IDA
>
> n4lq wrote:
> > Berni
> > This sounds like harmonic distortion, not ringing. It's the same thing
> > people are seeing on their PSK waterfalls and calling it a "ghost".
> > There's not much you can do about it.
> >
> > Steve Ellington
> > [hidden email]
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berni G0IDA" <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 5:42 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
> >
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I have had my K3 almost a week and I am very happy with it :-)
> >>
> >> I do however hear what I would describe as a ringing sound (and
> >> always), perhaps caused by the DSP.
> >> When I tune to a CW signal with any filter configuration although
> >> less pronounced using 250Hz filter the tone of the signal is good.
> >> But when I tune away from it and QSY up the band & the tone gets
> >> higher in frequency I can hear what I would call ringing and it is
> >> very slight but enough for it to be anoying.
> >>
> >> This does not always happen and may be if I press a combination of
> >> keys like NR, NB, WIDTH, SHIFT it causes this to go away, I haven't
> >> worked out if it is indeed a combination of keys or not.
> >>
> >> I've tried a different set of headphones just in case the headphones
> >> (Heil) were rattling but it is the same.
> >>
> >> This happens too on SSB as you tune away from the signal and is
> >> randomly there or not.
> >>
> >> Perhaps there are settings which optimize this?
> >> I have the RX EQ set up to cut the last 2 high frequencies off by 6dB
> >> and 10dB but it seems to make no difference how I set these.
> >>
> >> Does anyone else hear this very mild "Ringing"?
> >>
> >> 73's
> >> Berni
> >> G0IDA
> >> K3 #1474
> >>
> >> --
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Post to: [hidden email]
> >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus
> >> Database: 270.6.12/1640 - Release Date: 8/28/2008 6:58 PM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >

--
Don‘t complain. Nobody will understand. Or care. And certainly don‘t try
to fix the situation yourself. It‘s dangerous. Leave it to a highly
untrained, unqualified, expendable professional.

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the term 'ringing' but it seems to me that on any radio when you use a narrow filter you hear a sort of ringing noise that has a pitch of the frequency the filter is centered on. It's an inevitable result of the fact that you are not hearing an even distribution of noise across the whole audio spectrum, but a narrow segment of noise whose amplitude distribution follows the shape of the filter. In other words, I think it's normal.

[ROBERT CARROLL-4]

I'm not disagreeing with Julian at all  but wanted to toss out some related
ideas.   The noise you hear does become colored as you crank down a properly
designed DSP filter--and centered on the filter freq.  On the other hand
some poorly designed filters are excited by energy near the center freq and
do ring.  I have a rice box reviewed in a recent QST, and the review pointed
out the filter is so bad at 100Hz and below it becomes unusable.  A little
noise crackle and ringing like a bell begins and does not drop much for a
few seconds--tough on high speed cw.  Another phenomenon to consider is
aliasing.  This has popped up in a few versions of Orion software causing
ghost signals to appear in the subreceiver.  I was recently amused to find
an audio discussion of this in which someone commented about a ghost band
playing.  Here's a link  http://www.dsprelated.com/showmessage/24519/1.php
.  I would really be surprised if the K3 had any of these problems.  So far
I haven't bought one but I am creeping up to it.

Julian, I really like your VOAProp package.

73
Bob W2WG

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:17 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB


Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the term 'ringing' but it seems to
me that on any radio when you use a narrow filter you hear a sort of ringing
noise that has a pitch of the frequency the filter is centered on. It's an
inevitable result of the fact that you are not hearing an even distribution
of noise across the whole audio spectrum, but a narrow segment of noise
whose amplitude distribution follows the shape of the filter. In other
words, I think it's normal.

-----
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
Directory    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/K3---DSP-ringing-on-CW---SSB-tp793827p794022.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[Berni G0IDA]

Thank you all for the replies.

I would just like to clear up a few things:

I'm going to call it DISTORTION and not ringing as ringing is more
related to crystal filters as G4ILO pointed out and it is not filter
ringing which I have recognized in some previous rigs I've owned. I just
didn't know how to call it.

The distortion happens irrespective of filter used, even with the 2.7KHz
and the WIDTH opened right up it is still there.
The effects "AFX" makes no difference.
I am using stereo headphones.
I don't have a waterfall program... can someone suggest on please.

I've noticed when listening to my desired CW signal at a beat frequency
of 650Hz the signal is clear & only occasionally distorts but when
tuning the same signal and moving up in frequency at about twice 650Hz
(1300Hz) it starts to distort.
On SSB it is more pronounced as you tune.

I hope there will be a fix for this.

Does anyone else suffer from this?
I have read the PSK thread but I'm more interested in CW users in
particular.

Berni
G0IDA


Robert Carroll wrote:

> I'm not disagreeing with Julian at all  but wanted to toss out some related
> ideas.   The noise you hear does become colored as you crank down a properly
> designed DSP filter--and centered on the filter freq.  On the other hand
> some poorly designed filters are excited by energy near the center freq and
> do ring.  I have a rice box reviewed in a recent QST, and the review pointed
> out the filter is so bad at 100Hz and below it becomes unusable.  A little
> noise crackle and ringing like a bell begins and does not drop much for a
> few seconds--tough on high speed cw.  Another phenomenon to consider is
> aliasing.  This has popped up in a few versions of Orion software causing
> ghost signals to appear in the subreceiver.  I was recently amused to find
> an audio discussion of this in which someone commented about a ghost band
> playing.  Here's a link  http://www.dsprelated.com/showmessage/24519/1.php
> .  I would really be surprised if the K3 had any of these problems.  So far
> I haven't bought one but I am creeping up to it.
>
> Julian, I really like your VOAProp package.
>
> 73
> Bob W2WG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO
> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:17 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - DSP ringing on CW & SSB
>
>
> Perhaps I don't understand the meaning of the term 'ringing' but it seems to
> me that on any radio when you use a narrow filter you hear a sort of ringing
> noise that has a pitch of the frequency the filter is centered on. It's an
> inevitable result of the fact that you are not hearing an even distribution
> of noise across the whole audio spectrum, but a narrow segment of noise
> whose amplitude distribution follows the shape of the filter. In other
> words, I think it's normal.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
> Directory    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
>  

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[paul hendershott]

Anyone having a problem using the Heil MD-2 Desk Mic w/ the K3?
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

No problem at all - menu set to: MIC FP.L bias.  The bias must be set
on.  I run the mic gain at about 38 here.

73,
Don W3FPR

paul hendershott wrote:

> Anyone having a problem using the Heil MD-2 Desk Mic w/ the K3?
> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.13/1642 - Release Date: 8/29/2008 6:12 PM
>

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[.k8dd.-2]

----- Original Message -----
From: "paul hendershott" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 2:51 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it OK to USE Heil/Elecraft MD-2 Mic w/ K3?



Anyone having a problem using the Heil MD-2 Desk Mic w/ the K3?

-------------

No problem .... Mine works fine, people (unfortunately) tell me that
it sounds like me!  

Set the mike for front panel and bias on.

73    Hank    K8DD

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[Paul-285]

paul hendershott wrote:
>Anyone having a problem using the Heil MD-2 Desk Mic w/ the K3?

I use an Elecraft / Heil MD-2 with my K3 with no problems.

I didn't set anything mic-related in the config menus (left on
factory mic defaults).

I did adjust mic gain and compression on the front panel.

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