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K3 Data mode power creep

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Steve Ellington

K3 Data mode power creep

When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps upward. I
start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power is at
100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
card.
I've noticed this with 2 different computers and several sound cards. What
could cause this?
Steve
N4LQ
[hidden email]

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Elliott Lawrence-3

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

Yesterday I noticed the same issue on the RF power output using Data A. I
didn't have the problem before. I recently shifted to V3.68 and I wonder if
that could be the issue. Once the power increases to the 100w level which
takes about 10-15 seconds it remains the same for future transmissions.

73
Elliott WA6TLA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:17 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Data mode power creep

> When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps upward.
> I
> start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power is at
> 100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
> card.
> I've noticed this with 2 different computers and several sound cards. What
> could cause this?
> Steve
> N4LQ
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Greg - AB7R

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

I only notice this on a power setting change. If I have the ALC set
correctly to 4-5 bars it seems to take about 2-3 seconds for the power
to adjust. Subsequent transmissions do not show any problem. Only
after a power setting change. I can certainly live with this as I would
rather this than have the power spike higher than the power setting
causing other issues.

73
Greg
AB7R

On 12/24/2009 10:45 AM, Elliott Lawrence wrote:

> Yesterday I noticed the same issue on the RF power output using Data A. I
> didn't have the problem before. I recently shifted to V3.68 and I wonder if
> that could be the issue. Once the power increases to the 100w level which
> takes about 10-15 seconds it remains the same for future transmissions.
>
> 73
> Elliott WA6TLA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ellington"<[hidden email]>
> To:<[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:17 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Data mode power creep
>
>
>
>> When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps upward.
>> I
>> start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power is at
>> 100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
>> card.
>> I've noticed this with 2 different computers and several sound cards. What
>> could cause this?
>> Steve
>> N4LQ
>> [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 12/24/09 08:11:00
>
>

Bruce Beford-2

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

I believe with DATA A mode you should be setting the input audio level to
get 4-5 bars of ALC, then setting the Power out on the rig for the power
level desired. If you do not have this level of ALC action, then the radio
tries to increase the gain to bring the level up. This may be the source of
your "power creep". Set the audio level first, with the rig in TX TEST mode
to get 4-5 bars of ALC, then set the PWR control to the desired output
level. Do not adjust the audio input levels to set your output RF power.

GL, Bruce N1RX

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wb6rse1

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

On Dec 24, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Steve Ellington wrote:

When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps
upward. I
start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power
is at
100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
card.
_________

I had not noticed this but do now that I've looked. First time on DATA
A, the power starts in the 25 watt region and goes to my preset 50
watts or so (set to drive an amp) within just a few seconds. After
that, the power level seems to have been "learned." If I switch to
another mode and then back to DATA A, the power adjustment repeats.
This happens at lower and saturated ALC levels. My "normal" is set for
a 4-5 ALC flicker. My power out settings are by band (PWR SET = PER-
BAND).

This is with Mac OS 10.5 and an iMic USB I/O.

So it appears to be a K3 "feature" vs otherwise correctly adjusted
computer/software.

73! Steve WB6RSE
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

Steve,

Are you using the audio level to control the K3 power output AND have
the power control set to 100 watts?
If so, that is what is causing your power climb. The K3 thinks you want
100 watts out since that is where the power knob is set, and the power
will climb until that level is obtained. That is how it works.

Go into TX TEST and adjust the audio for 4 to 5 bars on the ALC meter,
then adjust the power with the Power knob.

73,
Don W3FPR

Steve Ellington wrote:

> When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps upward. I
> start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power is at
> 100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
> card.
> I've noticed this with 2 different computers and several sound cards. What
> could cause this?
> Steve
> N4LQ
> [hidden email]
>
>

KK7P

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Bruce Beford-2

> ... with DATA A mode you should be setting the input audio level to
> get 4-5 bars of ALC, then setting the Power out on the rig for the power
> level desired. If you do not have this level of ALC action, then the radio
> tries to increase the gain to bring the level up...

Exactly!

73,

Lyle KK7P (in Tucson)
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Steve Ellington

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don
I had forgotten all about the fact that you needed to set the power level
first. I tried the TX TEST trick but nothing happens on the ALC meter and I
didn't really expect it to. Thanks!

Steve
N4LQ
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
To: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Data mode power creep

> Steve,
>
> Are you using the audio level to control the K3 power output AND have
> the power control set to 100 watts?
> If so, that is what is causing your power climb. The K3 thinks you want
> 100 watts out since that is where the power knob is set, and the power
> will climb until that level is obtained. That is how it works.
>
> Go into TX TEST and adjust the audio for 4 to 5 bars on the ALC meter,
> then adjust the power with the Power knob.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Steve Ellington wrote:
>> When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps upward.
>> I
>> start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power is
>> at
>> 100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
>> card.
>> I've noticed this with 2 different computers and several sound cards.
>> What
>> could cause this?
>> Steve
>> N4LQ
>> [hidden email]
>>
>>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 12/24/09
03:11:00

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

Steve,

Turn up either the soundcard output or the "MIC gain" (it is actually
line in in data mode if you selected it) or both until you get enough
audio into the K3.

73,
Don W3FPR

Steve Ellington wrote:

> Don
> I had forgotten all about the fact that you needed to set the power level
> first. I tried the TX TEST trick but nothing happens on the ALC meter and I
> didn't really expect it to. Thanks!
>
> Steve
> N4LQ
> [hidden email]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 2:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Data mode power creep
>
>
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Are you using the audio level to control the K3 power output AND have
>> the power control set to 100 watts?
>> If so, that is what is causing your power climb. The K3 thinks you want
>> 100 watts out since that is where the power knob is set, and the power
>> will climb until that level is obtained. That is how it works.
>>
>> Go into TX TEST and adjust the audio for 4 to 5 bars on the ALC meter,
>> then adjust the power with the Power knob.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> Steve Ellington wrote:
>>
>>> When using DATA A with an external sound card the RF power creeps upward.
>>> I
>>> start out with 20 watts and after a minute or so I look and my power is
>>> at
>>> 100 watts. I quickly turn down the line input either at the K3 or sound
>>> card.
>>> I've noticed this with 2 different computers and several sound cards.
>>> What
>>> could cause this?
>>> Steve
>>> N4LQ
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 12/24/09
> 03:11:00
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2585 - Release Date: 12/24/09 03:11:00
>
>

Elliott Lawrence-3

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by KK7P

I've reset everything for Data A.....ALC 4-5 bars and the power still creeps
from about 80 to 100w in about 5 seconds. After that, as long as their is
no further mode change the power is always 100w without any creep.
Elliott WA6TLA

----- Original Message -----
From: "lyle johnson" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bruce Beford" <[hidden email]>;
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Data mode power creep

>> ... with DATA A mode you should be setting the input audio level to
>> get 4-5 bars of ALC, then setting the Power out on the rig for the power
>> level desired. If you do not have this level of ALC action, then the
>> radio
>> tries to increase the gain to bring the level up...
>
> Exactly!
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P (in Tucson)
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Julian, G4ILO

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

Elliott Lawrence-3 wrote

I've reset everything for Data A.....ALC 4-5 bars and the power still creeps
from about 80 to 100w in about 5 seconds. After that, as long as their is
no further mode change the power is always 100w without any creep.

That's normal. When it starts the K3 doesn't know exactly how much gain is needed to deliver the requested power level. The reason the power increase is slow is that the ALC in DATA A has a very slow response so as not to cause poor IMD when using PSK modes.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Elliott Lawrence-3

Elliiot,

That might be the normal power control "sneaking up" to your power
setting. Is your power set at 100 watts?

As a second comment, I hope you are not running PSK31 with 100 watts
power - 25 watts or less is sufficient to work the world, on that mode,
one just bothers the "neighbors" running higher power.

73,
Don W3FPR

Elliott Lawrence wrote:
> I've reset everything for Data A.....ALC 4-5 bars and the power still creeps
> from about 80 to 100w in about 5 seconds. After that, as long as their is
> no further mode change the power is always 100w without any creep.
> Elliott WA6TLA
>
>
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Richard Ferch

Re: K3 Data mode power creep

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

Elliot WA6TLA wrote:
> I've reset everything for Data A.....ALC 4-5 bars and the power still creeps
> from about 80 to 100w in about 5 seconds. After that, as long as their is
> no further mode change the power is always 100w without any creep.

What is your PWR control set to? It sounds very much as though you have
it set to 100W. If so, and you want less power, adjust the PWR control
downwards to the desired power level.

The IMD in PSK31 at 100W output is about 10 dB worse than at 50W,
according to measurements made with my KF6VSG PSKmeter. IOW, in PSK31
you will have a cleaner signal at 50W than you do at 100W.

73,
Rich VE3KI

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