K3 Digital audio out ?
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Hi,
is there any possibility to grab a digital audio out signal (e.g. a PCM stream) out of the K3 ? Backgound is to get a digital audio out signal to send it via VoIP e.g. via an ethernet or wireless LAN connection into the internet without using a PC / soundcard. Any suggestions are welcome. 73 de Sascha, DH2SE |
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Not yet, I have an idea it's not legal in the US.
Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DH2SE" <[hidden email]> > > is there any possibility to grab a digital audio out signal (e.g. a PCM > stream) out of the K3 ? > Backgound is to get a digital audio out signal to send it via VoIP e.g. > via > an ethernet or wireless LAN connection into the internet without using a > PC > / soundcard. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by DH2SE
> is there any possibility to grab a digital audio out signal (e.g. a PCM
> stream) out of the K3 ? Sorry, no. There is no path from the existing connectors to the DSP for such a stream, and we'd also have to deal with the correct framing for AES/EBU, etc. And then we'd have to deal with supporting 44.1 kHz bitstreams as well as 48kHz bitstreams, the meaning of all the user bits in the frames, etc. Not as simple as it might first appear :-/ 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Simon (HB9DRV)
That would be *extremely* useful, though I imagine it's even less likely to happen than getting a serial protocol command to read the internally decoded CW/PSK31/RTTY. Whilst horizontally polarized a while ago I could only operate datamodes using remote desktop to my shack computer because that was the only operation I could do without audio. I can't imagine why it would be illegal in the US. Doesn't one of the Ten-Tec rigs have an Ethernet port that allows full remote control with streaming audio already?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by KK7P
48kHz would be enough, Windows takes care of the rest :-)
Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyle Johnson" <[hidden email]> > > And then we'd have to deal with supporting 44.1 kHz > bitstreams as well as 48kHz bitstreams, the meaning of all the user bits > in the frames, etc. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: K3 Digital audio out ?
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In reply to this post by DH2SE
I bought the K3 for its raw hamradio-transceiver performance.
73, Arie ========================================== Hi, is there any possibility to grab a digital audio out signal (e.g. a PCM stream) out of the K3 ? Backgound is to get a digital audio out signal to send it via VoIP e.g. via an ethernet or wireless LAN connection into the internet without using a PC / soundcard. Any suggestions are welcome. 73 de Sascha, DH2SE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Simon (HB9DRV)
A raw bitstream of whatever sample rate the K3 uses would be fine, and processing it would not be limited to Windows. However if there is no way for the firmware to access the data I guess that's the end of it. :(
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Hi Simon and Julian,
thank you for your support. I'd also appreciate that if such a signal would come out of the K3. Others (IC-7700 et al.) support that too, sometimes via USB or ethernet. I'm not happy to digitalize the analog line out audio signal external into a PCM stream by using e.g. a microcontroller because of the additional signal propagation delay of the ADC conversion. For using the K3 as a remote TRX it is nowadays not state-of-the-art to let a PC run all days long. A modified wireless lan router is less expensive, regarding its power comsumption. I already thought about using a wireless lan router w/ integrated VoIP port (where you an plug in an analog telephone) to plug the line out and the line in port of the K3 to this device by using an "telephone"-interface to solve that problem. That could provide a audio connection e.g. via skype to the K3 from all places, if you want even by using a standard telephone line to "call" the K3 from every fixed line or cell phone. Hw ? 73 de Sascha, DH2SE, K3 #1115 Julian, G4ILO wrote: > That would be *extremely* useful, though I imagine it's even less likely to happen than getting > a serial protocol command to read the internally decoded CW/PSK31/RTTY. Whilst horizontally > polarized a while ago I could only operate datamodes using remote desktop to my shack > computer because that was the only operation I could do without audio. > I can't imagine why it would be illegal in the US. Doesn't one of the Ten-Tec rigs have an > Ethernet port that allows full remote control with streaming audio already? |
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I have such a VOIP router, which I use to have a separate office phone. I think your idea could work, if you could find a suitable interface to make the K3 look like a phone. My own interest is more in being able to access the radio wirelessly from around the house, for which that solution is not appropriate. Timewave has released a gadget that provides full access to the radio using Bluetooth, but inevitably it can be used only under Windows. :( Since getting audio samples out of the K3 DSP is apparently a non-runner, what we need is for someone clever to develop a something based on an embedded Linux board, to present a web based interface to the K3 with streaming audio. That would work over a LAN or across the wider Internet, whatever you wanted. At present, though, the only solution appears to be to get a Ten-Tec Omni VII. I think Elecraft missed a trick in not designing the K3 so a web based interface like the Omni VII could have been an option.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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Somebody said they didn't care what the stream was, it could be dealt with
externally, so, could we tap off the relevant signal, thro an off-board buffer and take it to a new socket on the back? David G3UNA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian, G4ILO" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Digital audio out ? > > > DH2SE wrote: >> >> Hi Simon and Julian, >> >> thank you for your support. I'd also appreciate that if such a signal >> would come out of the K3. Others (IC-7700 et al.) support that too, >> sometimes via USB or ethernet. I'm not happy to digitalize the analog >> line >> out audio signal external into a PCM stream by using e.g. a >> microcontroller because of the additional signal propagation delay of the >> ADC conversion. For using the K3 as a remote TRX it is nowadays not >> state-of-the-art to let a PC run all days long. A modified wireless lan >> router is less expensive, regarding its power comsumption. I already >> thought about using a wireless lan router w/ integrated VoIP port (where >> you an plug in an analog telephone) to plug the line out and the line in >> port of the K3 to this device by using an "telephone"-interface to solve >> that problem. That could provide a audio connection e.g. via skype to the >> K3 from all places, if you want even by using a standard telephone line >> to >> "call" the K3 from every fixed line or cell phone. Hw ? >> >> > > I have such a VOIP router, which I use to have a separate office phone. I > think your idea could work, if you could find a suitable interface to make > the K3 look like a phone. My own interest is more in being able to access > the radio wirelessly from around the house, for which that solution is not > appropriate. Timewave has released a gadget that provides full access to > the > radio using Bluetooth, but inevitably it can be used only under Windows. > :( > > Since getting audio samples out of the K3 DSP is apparently a non-runner, > what we need is for someone clever to develop a something based on an > embedded Linux board, to present a web based interface to the K3 with > streaming audio. That would work over a LAN or across the wider Internet, > whatever you wanted. At present, though, the only solution appears to be > to > get a Ten-Tec Omni VII. I think Elecraft missed a trick in not designing > the > K3 so a web based interface like the Omni VII could have been an option. > > ----- > Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. > http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham > Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Digital-audio-out---tp838886p840905.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Julian,
I have the same problem using the K3 wireless around the house e.g. while sitting in the garden. But I need also the possibility to use the K3 from far away. Bluetooth is suitable if you use a Jabra A-210 Module for the audio transmission directly to a headset and a second Bluetooth dongle in combination w/ a serial to usb converter for the data to a PC / notebook computer. I used this already but unfortunately, the range of Bluetooth Class 2 or 3 gadgets is not very nice (less than 30 ft.). But there is a supplier in Germany for a Bluetooth modul which supports Class 1, I'm working on it. I do have access to a embedded system that comes with a ARM7 µController. It should be possible to run an embedded Linux at that device. It would have all necessary ports (2x RS-232, USB (the protocol is already implemented), Ethernet (the protocol is already implemented), native UART's). The size of that board is only 800 x 300 mm (31,5 x 11,8 inch.). The price is less than 100 €. That should fit into the K3 with no problem. The only thing is: I do not have the time to develop it using Linux or a custom made firmware :-( Getting retiered is estimated by the year 2038. 73 de Sascha, DH2SE > ...Timewave has released a gadget that provides full access to > > the radio using Bluetooth, but inevitably it can be used only under Windows. :( > ...develop a something based on an embedded Linux board, to present a > web based interface to the K3 with streaming audio. That would work over a LAN or across > the wider Internet, whatever you wanted... |
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Hi All,
I need the height for the K3 _with the bail extended_. I am building new shelving for my operating table in anticipation of receiving mine (someday) ;o). Steve, W2MY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Dimensions with Bail Extended
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Steve,
Mine measures 6 3/8 inches to the uppermost part of the panel with the bail extended. If you allow 6 1/2 inches or more from the desktop to the first shelf you should be able to slide the K3 completely under the shelf. 73, Don W3FPR list1 wrote: > Hi All, > I need the height for the K3 _with the bail extended_. I am building new shelving for my operating table in anticipation of receiving mine (someday) ;o). > > Steve, W2MY > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by DH2SE
Thanks for the suggestion. The Jabra module might be a workable solution for me, although 30 feet range will barely reach the end of even our small garden. I could use remote desktop to access the rig control application, so I wouldn't need Bluetooth serial, though I do have a couple of Bluetooth serial devices that I bought on eBay on the off-chance they would come in handy for something like this. Is there a Bluetooth headset that has headphones and a boom mic, or must you use one of those small mobile phone headsets? With what the current economic climate is doing to my pension savings I don't have any current estimate for retirement. :( I don't have time to develop such a project either at the moment. If I did, I'd go for an external box that plugs in to the RS-232 port and line in and out jacks on the radio side, and ethernet on the other. You'd need an on-board sound card, of course, to digitise the audio. Using Hamlib for rig control, the device could work with any radio, so the market for it would be much bigger than just the K3. I'd have thought such a product would be commercially viable, wouldn't you?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by David Cutter
We don't care about the sample rate or bit depth too much, but the data needs to be obtainable by the computer in a manageable way, such as through an extension of the existing CAT command set. Given the choice of modifying their K3 or just plugging something into the back, I think most people would opt for the latter, even though it would entail an unnecessary D to A and back to D again step.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by DH2SE
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 02:48:08 -0700 (PDT), DH2SE wrote:
>I'm not happy to digitalize the analog line out audio >signal external into a PCM stream by using e.g. a microcontroller because of >the additional signal propagation delay of the ADC conversion. I don't understand your concerns. I work in pro audio, where latency (what audio people and broadcasters call propagation delay) is a VERY big deal for us. Latency of 10 msec can be too much in many sound systems. There are MANY products that will do an A/D and D/A conversion in a total of 2.4 msec. The MAJOR source of latency for remote control is the internet (or telephone system) path between the remote site and the control point, which can be several hundreds of msec. 73, Jim Brown K9YC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
isn't cheap ,,,, but good audio & a serial port ,,,,, too bad I
don't know how to program a remote front end for the k3,,,,,, Helloooo Simon...... http://www.barix.com/index.php?linkid=421 I believe you can use it at one end and another OR a cpu at the other end,,,, bill At 08:17 AM 9/5/2008, Julian, G4ILO wrote: >David Cutter wrote: > > > > Somebody said they didn't care what the stream was, it could be dealt with > > externally, so, could we tap off the relevant signal, thro an off-board > > buffer and take it to a new socket on the back? > > > > > >We don't care about the sample rate or bit depth too much, but the data >needs to be obtainable by the computer in a manageable way, such as through >an extension of the existing CAT command set. Given the choice of modifying >their K3 or just plugging something into the back, I think most people would >opt for the latter, even though it would entail an unnecessary D to A and >back to D again step. > > >----- >Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. >http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham >Directory http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3 >-- >View this message in context: >http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Digital-audio-out---tp838886p841150.html >Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Hi Julian et al.,
I might have found a cheap and easy solution providing a full remote access to the K3 via a local network and/or via the internet. I tested a wireless LAN router from Asus (WL500g Premium) at the last weekend. Using a new OS (Open-WRT with X-WRT) at that router will allow you to set up a virtual serial connection to the K3. That works already e.g. with HRD. The router provides two USB-Ports that can be used e.g. for that issue. At the second USB-Port you can use a simple USB-soundcard to stream the audio into the LAN / Internet and vice versa. That's not really tested until now but the Open-WRT OS supports such USB-soundcards. We tested that support already. Now the only problem to solve is how to get the audio back for in-/output e.g. at a notebook-computer (depending on the OS that works at the notebook-computer). We're working on it... Hope to provide exact information within this week (now I got one week off from QRL) :-) 73 de Sascha, DH2SE |
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Hi Sascha,
For audio there's SKYPE and IP-Sound. Take a look at http://forums.ham-radio.ch/forumdisplay.php?f=46 for a lot of remote radio discussions. I'm currently working on a remote EME system with a nice 10m dish (not mine), the whole station will be controlled using HRD and my new satellite software. http://www.radiosky.ch/home.php I may even write a remote audio solution for radio use - not sure yet. We will be able to power up / down all components remotely, can hear own signals about 12dB above the noise on 23cms using EME and that's when we don't even shout! 41dB gain on 23 cms, 30dB (I think) on 70 cms. We have a complex rotator system and with so much 'stuff' at the remote shack a PC is essential. Not a single Elecraft product in sight (yet) but once it's all working I may well put my K3 there with a vertical for 20m or something... Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DH2SE" <[hidden email]> > > I might have found a cheap and easy solution providing a full remote > access > to the K3 via a local network and/or via the internet. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 Digital audio out ?
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Simon (HB9DRV) wrote:
> > For audio there's SKYPE and IP-Sound. Take a look at > http://forums.ham-radio.ch/forumdisplay.php?f=46 for a lot of remote > radio discussions. SKYPE uses a proprietary voice only codec. Being proprietary means that its exact limitations will be unknown, but it is unlikely to perform well for data modes when operating close to the noise floor and it may well not work well for very noisy speech. -- David Woolley "The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio" List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm> _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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